Bolting gun safe: concrete screws


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NiteQwill
February 12, 2013, 12:48 PM
I'm having a safe (BF6030) delivered to my house from a local, well-known safe company.

I inquired about them bolting the safe down inside my residence. My floor is ceramic tile with concrete underneath.

Anyways, they stated they use Hilti concrete screws to mount all their safes.

Is this a secure method? I figured drop-in anchors would be stronger in terms of pull strength.

Any input? Worth the extra $45 for cost?

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Akita1
February 12, 2013, 01:13 PM
I bolted mine down (after drilling the holes in the foundation) with Tapcon screws from Home Depot and then bolted it to the wall so you can't get any movement to rip it out. Not saying it's a cure all, but will discourage all but the most inventive thief. Plus it's huge so good luck moving it!

MtnCreek
February 12, 2013, 02:03 PM
Hilti makes all kinds of fasteners, are you sure they’re not intending to use anchors? Personally, I would want anchors (whether Hilti or Redheads, …). Concrete screws may crack your tile when they start to thread them through.

NiteQwill
February 12, 2013, 02:39 PM
Yep, I verified their hardware. I also stated my concern with the use in ceramic tile.

They stated if I want to use drop in anchors I would have to do it myself.

Sounds like I should have another locksmith bolt down the safe after it gets delivered.

heeler
February 12, 2013, 03:41 PM
I cant understand why they are so insistent on using this method.
The safe and vault guys that placed my Amsec BF placed the safe where I wanted it,which by the way was on very hard porcelin tile on my concrete slab,then drilled four holes through the tile/concrete slab by way of the pre-drilled holes in the floor of my safe and then pounded in the four 4" x .5" Red Head concrete anchors with a three pound hammer,tightened up the bolts and that was that.
Solid.

NiteQwill
February 12, 2013, 06:03 PM
Yep, looks like I'm going to forgo the bolt install from these guys ($45 cost). I just don't feel comfortable with concrete screws on ceramic tile.

I called another local safe company and they will bolt down the safe using red heads for $100.

a1abdj
February 12, 2013, 10:34 PM
I'm assuming they are using concrete lags, and not concrete screws. My spec sheets show them as having a greater pull strength than a typical drive in anchor. I have used them through ceramic tile, and haven't had any issues.

I think the $45 is a good deal as well. We charge $100 to bolt into concrete.

Teachu2
February 13, 2013, 02:18 PM
My local shop uses the concrete lags. They sure make it nice if you need to move the safe later.

rondog
February 13, 2013, 03:11 PM
JMHO, but I wouldn't use anything less than 5/8" expansion shields with 3/8" grade 8 bolts. I've got this "thing" about bolting stuff to concrete floors, I don't want things to move, or BE moved, until I decide so.

PGT
February 13, 2013, 03:14 PM
Having drilled four holes in my stamped concrete patio for a spiral staircase, $100 is CHEAP to have a safe bolted down. I did lead lag inserts.....took me a few hours with an 18V DeWalt hammer drill. You really need a BIG hammer drill (electric or pneumatic) to do it properly.

Captains1911
February 13, 2013, 05:11 PM
I would use Hilti anchors

Teachu2
February 13, 2013, 06:10 PM
http://www.hilti.com/holcom/page/module/product/prca_catnavigation.jsf?lang=en&nodeId=-10422

Hilti lists them as concrete screw anchors.

My guys used Red Head Tapcon ones. http://www.itwredhead.com/product.php?Large-Diameter-Tapcon-Anchor-19








The LDT anchor is a high performance anchor that cuts its own threads into concrete. Available in 3/8” and 1/2" with and without EnvireX™ coating, 3/4 and 5/8" sizes are available with Sawtooth™ threads.


Anchor bodies are made of hardened carbon steel and zinc plated, Grade 5. The anchors shall have a finished hex washer head with anti-rotation serrations to prevent anchor back-out. The head of the anchor is stamped with a length identification code for easy inspection. The anchor shall be installed with carbide tipped hammer drill bits made in accordance to ANSI B212.15-1994.
◦Available in 3/8" and 1/2" with and without EnvireX™ coating.
◦Available in 5/8" and 3/4" Sawtooth™.
◦Sawtooth™ design offers improved performance in large diameter holes.
◦Superior performance to wedge anchor.
◦Installs in less than half the time of wedge anchors or adhesive anchors.
◦Simply drill a pilot hole and drive the LDT anchor by hand or impact.
◦No torching or grinding required to remove anchor.
◦Use standard ANSI bits instead of proprietary bits
.
◦Single piece design, no nut and washer to assemble
.
◦No special proprietary bits to purchase or lose
.
◦Reduce chances for anchor failure due to incorrect bit usage.

rhinoh
February 14, 2013, 05:20 AM
Hilti makes all kinds of fasteners, are you sure they’re not intending to use anchors? Personally, I would want anchors (whether Hilti or Redheads, …). Concrete screws may crack your tile when they start to thread them through.
Not commenting on the suitability of concrete screws, but if one drills through the tile with a bit larger than the screw then it won't crack the tile. Go no farther than the tile though then use the proper size drill into the concrete.
Those Tapcons work pretty well from what I've seen.

rhinoh
February 14, 2013, 05:25 AM
I found mounting equipment to high strength concrete there is a big difference between a hammer drill and a rotary hammer. The rotary hammer is much faster/easier.

pinghat
February 14, 2013, 06:59 AM
I've been a locksmith for 16 years and would recommend something similar to Dyna-Bolts 12mm.

http://www.itwproline.com.au/images/UserUploadedImages/268/dynabolts%20loose.jpg

Fast, easy and secure. I'd be more afraid of the tiles cracking as the safe squeezes down tight. Whichever fixing method you choose would be secure, some slightly better than others. You could always use a chemset:

http://www.formdirect.net.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/h/chem08.jpgwith a threaded rod and drop the safe onto it. Drill the tiles slowly with no hammer, lots of pressure and some water to keep it from melting the drill. Once through tiles, its hammer time.

Either way, I'd bet money on tiles cracking when tightened. ;)

rondog
February 14, 2013, 09:10 AM
I found mounting equipment to high strength concrete there is a big difference between a hammer drill and a rotary hammer. The rotary hammer is much faster/easier.

^THIS^! A rotary hammer and a hammer drill are two completely different animals. If you're drilling 5/8" holes in concrete for drop-in anchors, you'd better give your hammer drill a goodbye kiss first, because it's gonna die. A rotary hammer will make the holes in seconds. It's the ONLY way to go.

pinghat
February 14, 2013, 04:10 PM
I got this a few years back, not the most expensive out there, but geez, it eats it up so fast and easy. 1-2 inch holes takes seconds, zero work for the operator. I had to run a cable down through a slab (1st floor to Ground floor), 1 inch hole from memory, it took about 1 or 2 minutes from memory (brand new bit)... Hammer drills will do it, but it won't be fun, and you better have an awesome drill (which you don't mind wearing out).

http://sydneytools.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=11634&bc=no

Walkalong
February 14, 2013, 06:17 PM
We have a Makita rotary hammer at work and it is a boy dog. Hammer drills have a hard time with even small holes in the concrete is tough.

We have used Red Head (http://www.fastenal.com/web/search/product/fasteners/anchors/wedge-anchors/_/Navigation?searchterm=&sortby=webrank&sortdir=descending&searchmode=&refine=~|categoryl1:%22600000%20Fasteners%22|~%20~|categoryl2:%22602516%20Anchors%22|~%20~|manufacturer:^%22ITW%20REDHEAD%22$|~%20~|categoryl3:%22600168%20Wedge%20Anchors%22|~) wedge anchors (Fastenal, Grainger etc) for bolting items down and they work well. I used them for my safe. Put the safe in a corner and bolt it down with these, or those nice looking wedge anchors that Teachu2 linked to, and it will be hard to move.

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