No longer can use "The" in the name of trusts?


February 12, 2013, 06:47 PM
Read that "the" could no longer be used in the trust name (per 2 months ago). Anyone know if this is fact or just more drama?

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February 12, 2013, 07:49 PM
Since it has to be engraved, why would anyone what a useless word in the name?

Jim K
February 12, 2013, 07:49 PM
What is the source of that information? If BATFE, what circular, ruling, etc.?

Sounds like the rumor mill to me, but then BATFE has been known for some arbitrary rulilngs. If you have a serious inquiry (e.g. you have already set up a trust with "the" in the name), call or write them. If just checking a rumor, forget it.


Lee Roder
February 13, 2013, 07:43 PM
My Form 4 was finally returned last October with the article THE whited out. Instead of "The Roder Trust" as I submitted on the form, my form was returned with "Roder Trust", but at least the stamp was affixed


Prince Yamato
February 13, 2013, 07:56 PM
My form 4 got kicked back to my dealer because the atf had an issue with the the dealer using "the" in their name.

It's not rumor. The ATF is going after definite articles now.

February 13, 2013, 10:57 PM
Mine got kicked back 2 weeks ago. But was approved after striking through and initialing

February 14, 2013, 09:20 AM
Wow. I'm speechless. What possible difference can it make?

February 14, 2013, 09:21 AM
Interesting, thanks guys.

February 15, 2013, 08:32 PM
Can you end it with a preposition?

Prince Yamato
February 17, 2013, 12:47 AM
What possible difference can it make?

It makes all the difference. Or as the ATF likes to say, "It makes all difference."

February 17, 2013, 01:56 AM

Talk about screwball things to toe the line over.

Since I've never set up an NFA trust before, I don't know the procedure. But if it's like many other trusts the legal documents drawing it up can't be changed willy-nilly.

Or are NFA trusts self directed implied trusts, that "get created" by the BATFE paperwork? So it gets the name with the handmade corrections because that's what's written down?


February 17, 2013, 05:38 AM
I would get Blacks Law Dictionary and look up the word " the ".

You really have no idea the amount of words we use everyday that in the legal world may have 75 meanings. Such as the word "Person".

We sign things all the time and really have no idea the legal meaning that can be applied to them.

I found this out when looking up the word "is" that one of our elected guys used at one time.

It has been said to me before that Attorney is french for word twister.

February 17, 2013, 12:03 PM
Can you end it with a preposition?
The ATF probably wouldn't care...but Grammar Girl would be horrified.

So has the ATF become bored with abusing our Second Amendment rights and are now going after the First?

February 17, 2013, 12:17 PM
Really?! I mean isn't there better thing to do over there.

February 24, 2013, 03:35 PM
It was probably my fault - my trust name has the word "the" in it, three times-

"The blessed trust of the noble ninjas of the golden dawn"

Sorry guys :-(

February 24, 2013, 11:24 PM
"The Cesiumsponge Trust" and "Cesiumsponge Trust" are two different trusts. "The" makes a difference. It's also weird to refer to your trust as the The Cesiumsponge Trust because that's not the same as referring it as the Cesiumsponge Trust.

When I had my lawyer set up my trust years ago, he made it a point not to use the word "The" in the title of my trust. I suspect there is a legal reason for it but never bothered to inquire. I think you can restate the trust but you can't change the name of your trust or you've just formed a new entity. The trust name better be the same on all your Form 4's.

Hopefully one of the legal eagles comes along and enlightens us to the possible reasons this action has been taking place lately.

February 25, 2013, 12:19 AM
I'm submitting 3 SBR Form 1s Monday. My paper bank checks just came in Friday's mail. Had not used one in 8+ years.

Trust says "This revokable living trust shall be known as the [lower case] Xxxxxxxxx RLT. [Capitalized]".

Name to be stamped is "Xxxxxxxxx RLT". In this case RLT is the actual name not an abbreviation of the name.

We shall see . . .


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