National Victory, Defeated States


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MagnumDweeb
February 13, 2013, 06:10 PM
It looks like there won't be a federal AWB or magazine capacity restriction. I know not to hold my breath and I keep writing my Congress critters but are already pro-gun as it is, or at least unwilling to turn anti-gun. But it looks like certain states are headed more and more into the anti-American category. Defining anti-American as states that infringe upon any amendment in the BOR.

New York was long considered a lost cause by a lot of us (New Yorkers included, we still have to keep up the political pressure and donate to any legal funds for lawyers taking on their anti-American laws). Minnesota is a hare's breath away from going full Obama party line. Colorado is just about there on the Obama party line. California was plain nuts before any of this but it looks like they are going to try for full on anti-American as soon as possible. Other than that I don't know of any other shifting changes. I would think New Jersey and Maryland would be jumping the anti-American train but I haven't heard anything about that.

I've said, since the panic started, that it's thirteen versus thirty-seven. Thirteen states that will walk almost lock-step with the anti-American democrats and republicans (yes republicans are guilty too of throwing liberties out the window, and yes some democrats are good about protecting those liberties). So nationally we might go unscathed but certain states will fall farther into the anti-American influence and suffering.

With that said, what do you think the aftermath will be. I ran across this youtube documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZO30lPGm4&list=PLVLAyAfRWGI_g2E7snyBzjjYvwT3WdCMK , and I followed it to the YounTurks review of it. Somehow my state of Florida with all its freedoms is responsible for all of the gun murders in Chicago. My freedom is killing people. My rights, my American rights, my god given rights, are the reason Chicago is a failure in gun deaths and crime prevention.

So if these states pass these anti-American laws and they fail. I believe the rest of us will be blamed. Wait I know the rest of us will be blamed. 99.99% of gun owners will be blamed, vilified, and persecuted or at least there will be attempts to persecute.

Some of us are too quick to say "well that's California's problem" or "thank god I don't live New York, let the devil have it".

With the way this country is polarizing, the pro-American crowd is shrinking. Yes there is a resurgence we have desperately needed for a long time. But it's not enough. I used to think I had to be reproductively responsible. Limit myself to having only two kids. Limit myself to consuming a certain amount of goods. Make charitable donations to non-profits that help the less fortunate. Now my eyes are open.

Now I'm going to work like a machine (hello two eighty hour work weeks a month, known you a while, was hoping you'd go away, but you're here to stay along with your cousins the two sixty hour work weeks a month). Now I'm going to have three to four kids (the fiancee said okay, long as we put a few grand away a year for their college education). Now I'm going to buy canned goods for myself, shop more at Goodwill (used to feel bad about buying good jeans there for three bucks or less but [blank] that) for clothes, take up gardening, and avoid making my quarterly food pantry drop offs (found one that would let me drop off big bags of rice and beans along with tuna fish cans, it's part of a church).

Charitable donations, now that is off the table. In 2011 I donated five hundred bucks around christmas time between a few different charities. In 2012 I almost donated a $1,000 but then Sandy Hook happened and I quickly blew through it before the panic ramped up. Now I'm going to sock away four grand for after Christmas to stock up for the year on factory ammo and reloading needs. I joined the NRA and have been donating money and will likely keep doing it every month. Hey I'd love to give ten bucks a month to help feed starving children here in America but it's not my fault, blame the liberals for making me believe the NRA needs and deserves it more. Soon as the liberals stop trying to destroy the second amendment I can donate that money to starving children here in America.

I'm going to come up with a list of anti-American companies to boycott. Try to spend my money on made in America goods so long as the company isn't anti-American. And try to find a legal fund to donate five bucks a month to so long as they are making for a real fight in the courts against gun control.

So will you help me, will you join me, can we stop playing nice with the anti-Americans. Can we admit we're acting to protect our rights and damn the collateral damage, so long as we are not doing anything illegal. Let them call us uncaring, insensitive, and unfeeling, it's a lie, we know it. We just happen to also know there ways are the wrong ways, the dangerous ways, the ways that lead to suffering, tyranny and enslavement.

Let any all defeats fuel us as they have in the past. Let them give wood and oil to the flame of liberty and resistance. Let this flame light the path of freedom and cast light on those that seek to betray us.

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r1derbike
February 13, 2013, 06:21 PM
Please don't be lulled into a false sense of security. Even if the AWB fails, another registration scheme will be hot on its heels to scream ahead to gun confiscation. If the AWB fails, it is nothing but a sacrificial lamb in the grand scheme of disarmament. The AWB/Magazine, Handgun/Magazine Feinstein atrocity is now a facade (although we shouldn't hold our breath just yet, about it) to far more ominous, and devious gun banning.

I have not seen such cloak-and-dagger politics played behind closed doors to such a degree. This administration will not rest until gun control and eventual confiscation is accomplished. The signs are clear, heed them. Keep the pressure on your representatives. This battle is far from over. It may take a different tack, but we still need to be in the fight.

http://gunowners.org/alert02132013.htm

CoRoMo
February 13, 2013, 06:23 PM
It's all.good
I beg your pardon? http://www.gazette.com/articles/house-150957-pass-bills.html

Texan Scott
February 13, 2013, 06:28 PM
I am not a Texas secessionist. I believe secession would be legal, could be peaceful, and should not be done.

My fear is that the idiots you're describing could easily push enough Texans into the attitude you're describing to make it happen... and then things will be worse.

We need a Constitutional reawakening in this country. If it is to happen, I'm afraid the Judicial branch is our last hope. Groups like the NRA-ILA need to be putting their focus on comprehensive litigation, not a patchwork of legislation.

Harvie
February 13, 2013, 06:28 PM
Yes, I'll support you. The movement is growing.

CoRoMo
February 13, 2013, 06:32 PM
Living in CO now is a real drag. It tortures the soul.
You said it... and I'm not kidding. Heartbreaking is what it is.

C5rider
February 13, 2013, 06:34 PM
We need a Constitutional reawakening in this country.

There's a LOT said in that one statement.

r1derbike
February 13, 2013, 06:39 PM
I beg your pardon? http://www.gazette.com/articles/house-150957-pass-bills.htmlAnd so it begins...sharpen your pencils.

Silent Bob
February 13, 2013, 06:47 PM
Unfortunately we now have half the country more than willing, happy even to sell out their own, as well as your rights, in exchange for a card they can swipe for free groceries, free birth control, free phone. "Free" meaning they did not pay for it.

Talk about Amnesty 2.0 for illegal immigrants in this country that will turn my red state purple overnight and make it nearly impossible for anyone without a (D) next to their name on a ballot to ever win an election again.

A generation of young adults indoctrinated by a public school system that promoting multicultural "diversity" and the gay agenda are the only issues that matter.

Its hard to see any kind of light at the end of this tunnel, except for that of the oncoming train.

ATLDave
February 13, 2013, 07:02 PM
Silent Bob, there are plenty of people in favor of gun control who are not interested in anything free. They simply think they will be safer if there are fewer guns around.

They're wrong, but if you begin with the assumption that gun control is primarily driven by some "socialism" is to misunderstand the motives of many (though not all) of those on the other side of the issue.

Gay rights, of course, has nothing to do with guns.

mmitch
February 13, 2013, 07:13 PM
As violent crime rates continue to escalate in anti-Second Amendment states, as they surely will, those statistics will make our case for us, if those who are open-minded, at all, will believe those realities.

Mike

Steel Horse Rider
February 13, 2013, 07:14 PM
The binding force of all these anti-traditional American value groups is an old saying that is not necessarily true: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Firearm ownership falls under the umbrella of "traditional values" so the leftists, counter culture practitioners, GLBTs, and anarchists accept elimination of private firearm ownership as a victory for their side despite the obvious evidence that self-defense is even more important to themselves than to those defending the Second Amendment. Politics does indeed make for strange bedfellows.

Larry Ashcraft
February 13, 2013, 08:17 PM
Let's try to keep this thread on topic.

I've deleted a bunch of posts. If you wish to bicker with another member, please take it to PM, instead of trashing a thread.

MagnumDweeb
February 13, 2013, 08:18 PM
Please keep this highroad. I am for gay rights personally. Also remember the pink gun folks, the gays for guns folks. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, the other side as used against us and we should work to do so in turn. At my core I've also believed in the fundamental amendments. The Bill of Rights. You want to keep your gun rights your going to have to bend in other areas. Sorry guys that's how it is.

Politicians, repeat Politicians, use the pro-choice(abortion) agenda to rally their constituents and more often than not they use those constituents to justify destroying the 2nd Amendment. Pro-Gay Rights is the same story. Amnesty for illegal Aliens is the same story. Jingoism, xenophobia, and homophobia are easy temptations for some to get into. And if we give into them we are damning ourselves into the loss of the 2nd Amendment. Face it, unless this country collapses under its own wait there we be no opportunity for a reset. We are all too civilized and good for a reset outside a collapse of this nation.

There are plenty of illegal aliens who if given the chance would vote Pro-RKBA. I know, I represent illegal aliens injured in construction accidents (hey i get to go after employers who knowingly use illegal aliens and make them pay my bills which I use to employ people and buy guns with, and make donations to the NRA with). There are homosexuals who believe in the 2nd Amendment and consider destroying it a travesty. I know because I occassionally go shooting with two NRA members who are gay and convinced me to reup my membership.

At the end of the day we should back our brother and sisters-in-arms regardless of their race, creed, gender, national origin, or sexual orientation so long as they stand the same way on the 2nd Amendment and 1st Amendment. The rest we can dicker over later at this point I say because not much will change till it's time for Obama to leave office, and that's only if the Republicans make more inroads into the house and senate.

One of my less tolerant friends is big time anti-pro-choice. I asked him how he or the government could tell a woman what to do their body, but the government couldn't tell him what to do with his gun. Roe v. Wade came out of the judicial interpretation of the right of privacy (oddly it followed the rights of homosexuals having the right to engage in homosexuality in private and not be prosecuted for it). So if you body is not private enough, then how is your gun private enough.

No war, no struggle, is ever fought clean or without surrendering some ideals. Heck old Abe Lincoln originally didn't want to free the slaves, but after a few years of bloody fighting he did. We bombed the heck out of Japan and Germany before finally winning and killed a lot innocent people by which today we refer to as collateral damage, and collateral damage today is perfectly acceptable. A price of doing business so to speak.

So reaching out to homosexuals, illegal aliens, and other folks whom you might not necessarily agree with. In order to protect the 2nd Amendment, is in my opinion collateral damage. Acceptable collateral damage.

So let's keep this highroad. Lets bring everyone together we can. Otherwise we face losing it all. The fifties so many of us are fond of are gone (for non-whites and homosexuals it was not that fond of a time). Today is a new day. Today is a day of cleverness, tenacity, at times amorality, and pandering. If we don't do it, well they already are.

If a hundred dollars would turn a anti-American to a Pro-RKBA, well brother, whether or not that person made Liberache look dull, whether or not that person felt abortion was acceptable, whether or not that person was an illegal alien (if they can vote), I'd spend it.

radiotom
February 13, 2013, 08:23 PM
So do your gay friends vote for people they view as anti-gay rights if they are pro-RKBA?

I think the core issue here is that RKBA is not most people's #1 issue. It can be very tempting for people on "the left" who are pro-RKBA to vote for Obama etc, because they agree with him on everything else. This is why we are in this mess, because RKBA isn't #1.

Akita1
February 13, 2013, 08:35 PM
Wow Magnum, righteous posts. You appear to be quite an even-handed and enlightened individual. A hearty "Amen Brother" to my fellow Central Floridian. Will gladly stand by you in the cause.

22-rimfire
February 13, 2013, 08:41 PM
The Feinstein AWB may appear dead, but the President supports it. He wants a vote... as they say, up or down. Presidents always say that when they can't get their way.

The concepts or portions of the Feinstein bill could be placed into new gun control legislation. This is not a time to ease up to slip into "hibernation".

41wheelgun
February 13, 2013, 08:56 PM
Guys, let's not get to comfortable now. Don't forget the 2014 mid term elections. Obama know's he could not get any weapons banned with the current House, so he is banking on taking over Congress in 2014 and then the Dems can pass anything they want, like the did with Obama Care.

phil dirt
February 13, 2013, 09:26 PM
As others have said let's don't get complacent. The Senate could go either way. We need to call and write Harry Reid's office. Also, this whole notion of ten round magazines is total BS. Are the gang bangers going to start buying 10 round mags for their Glocks?

mljdeckard
February 13, 2013, 09:43 PM
There is no indication of any kind that the dems will re-take the house. They KEPT the house for doing what they are doing right now.

I am being very cautious. I think they will talk big with a ban, and then back off and attach universal background checks to a very tempting bill to get it in. Whether or not it passes depends on how lucrative the bill is.

The lines between the ideologies are indeed becoming more distinct.

CSC_Saint
February 13, 2013, 10:03 PM
"Rep. Pete Lee, D-Colorado Springs, voted in favor of the bills and said no constitutional rights are absolute and all are subject to reasonable restraint on things such as time and place in the interest of public safety"

Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/house-150957-pass-bills.html#ixzz2Kpooc9Nb

For you Colorado Springs residents like myself, this "bad word" should not have a job after the next election. The damage has been done, but we gotta keep him from doing any further harm. Honestly, I'm deeply saddened that my beloved home is no longer a safe haven to my and my families freedoms.

wally
February 13, 2013, 10:12 PM
I'm afraid the Judicial branch is our last hope

With two or three more Obama appointees, we're doomed!

gulogulo1970
February 13, 2013, 11:07 PM
Why do gun guys stay in antigun states? That is just funding the enemy with your taxes. The funder of my enemy is in grave danger of becoming my enemy, also.
I'm lucky to live in Texas. But, if Texas turned totally anti-gun, I right now or in the future, I cannot afford to pick-up and leave. Plus, how many would stay because all of their family and friends live where they do? I cannot leave my aged mother to fend for herself.

It's funny because I've always thought, "If you don't like the laws, move." Well, that is far easier said than done.

I think most people's lives are more than just their ability to own firearms.

Gordon_Freeman
February 13, 2013, 11:14 PM
Well said MagnumDweeb. I agree 100%.

larryh1108
February 13, 2013, 11:21 PM
It's become obvious that Obama has directed the states to push his agenda thru because he can't at the national level. Look what is going on. Threads are popping up about previously gun friendly states looking at various bans and restrictions. CO, MO, MI, MN, NY, CA, MA, CT, NJ, etc and the list is growing. The NRA has to fight each state on their turf, one at a time, instead of taking on the entire country as one. They are dividing us to conquer us. One-by-one we are reading about states taking our rights and it's become an epidemic. Instead of fighting one cause, we are fighting 51. No Constitutional amendment should be able to be "modified" at any state level. It's a national right, not a state right. This is wrong but they are moving forward. It is alarming and to those who think we've won at the federal level need to look at the state levels for this cancer.

blkbrd666
February 13, 2013, 11:40 PM
it's become obvious that obama has directed the states to push his agenda thru because he can't at the national level. Look what is going on. Threads are popping up about previously gun friendly states looking at various bans and restrictions. Co, mo, mi, mn, ny, ca, ma, ct, nj, etc and the list is growing. The nra has to fight each state on their turf, one at a time, instead of taking on the entire country as one. They are dividing us to conquer us. One-by-one we are reading about states taking our rights and it's become an epidemic. Instead of fighting one cause, we are fighting 51. No constitutional amendment should be able to be "modified" at any state level. It's a national right, not a state right. This is wrong but they are moving forward. It is alarming and to those who think we've won at the federal level need to look at the state levels for this cancer.

e-x-a-c-t-l-y!!!

Cesiumsponge
February 13, 2013, 11:51 PM
Plenty of self-professed pro-RKBA guys are anti-RKBA if you give them the right incentive to throw fellow gunowners under the bus. Try starting a discussion about opening up the NFA machine gun registry again and watch as hordes of NFA collectors come out of the woodwork who would oppose a bill that would grant more freedom to gun owners because it affects the "value" of their collection. Apparently they're entitled to the value of their NFA items like homeowners are entitled to the value of their home.

To paint using such broad brush strokes of "all gun owners can be united" or "all liberals hate guns" are massively naive and misplaced. The American population isn't defined as "A" or "B". It's A-Z. Look at Pew or Rasmussen polls over decades. A third of Republicans are pro-choice and a third of Democrats are pro-life. There aren't well-defined borders people like to paint so they can point out "here is my tribe" and "there are the others". That only exists in the handcrafted worldviews people adopt for themselves so they can feel comfy. Illegals from south of the border are the new foreign menace to point at. We like to blame them for the same things we blamed the Chinese, the Japanese, the Italians, and the Irish for. Fact of the matter is many folks from central and South American countries are very conservative folks with Catholic backgrounds.

Instead of trying to alienate people, folks should be finding ways to bring "outsiders" into the fold to strengthen efforts against passing new gun control legislation.

pacerdude
February 14, 2013, 12:09 AM
I agree with MagnumDweeb in post 19 100%. And as others have said, we can't be lulled in to a false sense of security on this issue, I recently got a poll from my Congressman Bob Woodall, asking how I felt about the 2A with a multiple choice survey.

So far I have received response on the issue from every politician I wrote except for the Lt. Governor and the President/Veep.

Bhi curamach
February 14, 2013, 12:13 AM
I am not a Texas secessionist. I believe secession would be legal, could be peaceful, and should not be done.

My fear is that the idiots you're describing could easily push enough Texans into the attitude you're describing to make it happen... and then things will be worse.

We need a Constitutional reawakening in this country. If it is to happen, I'm afraid the Judicial branch is our last hope. Groups like the NRA-ILA need to be putting their focus on comprehensive litigation, not a patchwork of legislation.
Sorry, I'm not Texan (I'm not apologizing for that, more for any incorrect thoughts that follow) but I thought that Texas agreed to join the US as long as they retained the ability to reverse that decision at any time. They would then revert back to six seperate territories. Hence the whole six flags over Texas thing.
Am I wrong?

Texan Scott
February 14, 2013, 12:28 AM
Yes and no... Texas retained its right to secede when it joined. It then seceded in the Civil War and was subsequently told that NO state may secede. The Union's right to assert this was not demonstrated Constitutionally, but at gunpoint.

The six flags actually refer to the flags of six sovereign nations that have flown over Texas soil: Spain, France, Mexico, the Republic of Texas, the Confederacy, and the U.S., and have nothing to do with dividing into smaller territories.

Texshooter
February 14, 2013, 12:34 AM
Must

fight

harder

NOW

HorseSoldier
February 14, 2013, 12:45 AM
Yes and no... Texas retained its right to secede when it joined. It then seceded in the Civil War and was subsequently told that NO state may secede. The Union's right to assert this was not demonstrated Constitutionally, but at gunpoint.


+1. The issue of secession was settled back in 1865, though it is now rearing its head as what is probably best considered a mix of regional and class warfare is at a high simmer in this country. While the left rushed to rub Obama down with sacred oil and annoint him the new Lincoln after Lincoln hit theaters, it's an interesting question of whether he has the spine to actually pull a Lincoln in the face of secession.

And it's an interesting question whether he'd have the ability to do so. The military is politically conservative, over-represented by rural Southerners, and probably what would fairly be described as "politically unreliable" for the current regime. Trying to send in the troops to reclaim a break away state might trigger regime change in Washington instead, or some other less than optimal outcome. Or it might not . . . but that uncertainty has to weigh on Barry-O & Co. when they see secession bandied about and nullification bills introduced into state legislatures.

Onward Allusion
February 14, 2013, 12:53 AM
Everyone need to write their Republican reps in the House and tell them to move forward on the ECONOMY, even if it means compromise and spending ourselves out of this depression.

Yes, it would be RKBA related, because if the economy continues down this path the anti's will take control of both Houses. When almost 80% of the people disapproves of Congress, I guarantee that the people will want a change in 2014, and that's exactly what the current administration is hoping for. Imagine every anti-2nd Amendment Bill getting rubber-stamped by both Houses and signed into law.

788Ham
February 14, 2013, 01:04 AM
Its truly sad about Colorado being so blindfolded in their thinking. The Gov. hasn't said a word about any of this, until the past 2 days, now he's gung-ho and leading the cavalry. This state used to be one of the leaders in gun sports, hunting, shooting sports, but since this business owner's taken over, he's ruined things royally! Truly a sad state of affairs. :uhoh:

greenmtnguy
February 14, 2013, 01:04 AM
It ain't over til the fat lady sings - as they say..

Feinstein and her cohorts haven't given up, and they've inspired the socialist minded megalomaniacs like Cuomo, Bloomberg, Rahm E, and Christie to throw their weight behind the severe state governmental unconstitutional overreach that we are seeing.

Don't give up the ship. Don't slack off. All it may take is another sick wacko incident to push the momentum of the ignorant forward again.

breakingcontact
February 14, 2013, 04:27 AM
States are really lining up into free and slave states.

Not just in terms of gun rights, I was checking out tax rates today as well.

I respect those of you staying behind the curtain and "fighting the good fight" but there is also a point when you've ran your race.

As more like minded people (whatever those beliefs may be) gather together, they will express their collective beliefs increasingly. Failed states like California and Illinois vs booming states like Texas, many deep south and plains and mountain states.

nazshooter
February 14, 2013, 04:59 AM
We need a Constitutional reawakening in this country. If it is to happen, I'm afraid the Judicial branch is our last hope.

I disagree. We lost the courts back during the New Deal (if not earlier). The only real hope is to educate enough people about freedom to make a difference from the bottom up. So long as the people remain ignorant the politicians and judges they appoint will do whatever they like.



Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

nazshooter
February 14, 2013, 05:51 AM
They're wrong, but if you begin with the assumption that gun control is primarily driven by some "socialism" is to misunderstand the motives of many (though not all) of those on the other side of the issue.



Fundimentally gun rights are about the balance of power between the state and the individual. If you have more confidence in the state to be wise and moral than the average individual then all of the central planning that socialists support makes sense and of course the state should have a monopoly on force. If, on the other hand, you belive that power corrupts then you want the state to do as little as possible and giving them a monopoly on force is very dangerous.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

coloradokevin
February 14, 2013, 06:11 AM
I've been predicting that the real fight this year would come at the state level, and that's definitely the case for me. As the discussion periods in the state House Judiciary Committee demonstrated over the past couple of days, support for gun rights is still very strong in this state. Unfortunately the Democrats are running things in Colorado right now, and don't seem the least bit concerned about the will of the people.

For my state it is pretty evident that the large influx of new coastal-born residents has played a role in this culture shift. But I'd also put forth an argument that far too many gun owners have ignored this issue at the polls in the past few years, and elected anti-gun politicians with the feeling that "they won't dare touch our gun rights". Well, they're not just touching them now, they're kicking them.

I'm just hoping we can stave off some of the damage until mid-term elections, and hopefully replace a lot of these Democrats at that time.

I know a lot of gun owners around here have said that "this isn't about party affiliation", but the votes we've had here in Colorado for the past few days illustrate how it is PRECISELY a party-line issue.

ccsniper
February 14, 2013, 06:27 AM
http://www.gazette.com/articles/hous...ass-bills.html

Please tell me I am not the only one who noticed the last part of that link.

Ryanxia
February 14, 2013, 10:34 AM
Must

fight

harder

NOW
This.

Remember folks, congress.org has a link on the right side of the page to contact all your reps at once on the federal and State level.

Contact your state reps and do it every few days, tell your family and friends to do the same. Make sure our voices are heard. We can do this but we can't back down now. Writing a few e-mails or picking up the phone is much easier than what may come if Americans are told they no longer have their Rights to be free.

Also, most if not all states have at least one pro-gun organization that's fighting for your Rights, get involved, at the very least donate what you can.

Vector
February 14, 2013, 11:07 AM
Please don't be lulled into a false sense of security. Even if the AWB fails, another registration scheme will be hot on its heels to scream ahead to gun confiscation. If the AWB fails, it is nothing but a sacrificial lamb in the grand scheme of disarmament. The AWB/Magazine, Handgun/Magazine Feinstein atrocity is now a facade (although we shouldn't hold our breath just yet, about it) to far more ominous, and devious gun banning.

I have not seen such cloak-and-dagger politics played behind closed doors to such a degree. This administration will not rest until gun control and eventual confiscation is accomplished. The signs are clear, heed them. Keep the pressure on your representatives. This battle is far from over. It may take a different tack, but we still need to be in the fight.

http://gunowners.org/alert02132013.htm

Exactly right.

A common negotiation ploy is to ask for the moon knowing you can never get it.
So once you grudgingly negotiate for a long period of time, you are hopefully left with the one or two things you really wanted. If the other side refuses to give an-inch on anything, then they are painted as intractable and the cause of the failure.

`

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