Mosin or Moisin


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Musket44
February 13, 2013, 10:59 PM
Which is the correct spelling?

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firesky101
February 13, 2013, 11:05 PM
I do believe Mosin as in Sergei Ivanovich Mosin, assuming you are talking about the popular bolt action soviet rifle.

Steel Horse Rider
February 13, 2013, 11:11 PM
"Moison" came from the pronunciation of the British actors portraying Russians in the movie "Enemy at the Gates" about the Battle of Stalingrad. Once an actor does something you can almost predict that a number of lemmings will follow......

Sergei Mosin
February 13, 2013, 11:15 PM
Мосин, if you want to get into the Cyrillic. But the correct transliteration is Mosin.

carbine85
February 14, 2013, 01:27 PM
And I believe the correct pronunciation is Moseen.

Dr. Sandman
February 14, 2013, 01:37 PM
I doubt that anybody could come up with a better commercial for the Mosin than the movie "Enemy At The Gates". It made me want one!

Musket44
February 14, 2013, 09:01 PM
Interesting. Apparently Bruce Canfield was wrong in his spelling in the article "UGLY DUCKLING: The Moisin-Nagant in U. S. Service" in the July, 2008issue of American Rifleman. He even spelled Capt. Sergei Ivanovich Moisin's name wrong.

Carl N. Brown
February 14, 2013, 09:22 PM
The correct transliteration from the Russia is "Mosin" and thats what I stick with, but I recognize the alternate spellings have been used for a long time before Brit actors played in "Enemy at the Gates".

Some of the comments I have had to post on Wikipedia Talk:Mosin Nagant:

NRA Guide to Firearms Assembly "Mosin's name is also encountered in arms literature as Mossin, Mouzin, Moisin, Mossine. etc., depending on the nationality of the writer."

In Roy Dunlap's Ordnance Went Up Front (Samworth, 1948) he refers to the "Moisin-Nagant" consistently; Dunlap served the length of WWII in the field with US Army Ordnance from North Africa to the Pacific. Of course, the official translation is still Mosin-Nagant; just noting that alternate spellings or transliterations can be found.

W. H. B. Smith "Rifles" (NRA and the Military Service Publishing Co, 1948) also lists the Russian Model 1891-30 as the "Moisin" so this alternate spelling was commonly used in 1948, not just an error or mistake by Roy Dunlap.

Sergei Mosin
February 14, 2013, 10:37 PM
Transliteration between Cyrillic and Latin alphabets can be fraught with peril, but Мосин to Mosin is so simple that I don't understand how things like "Moisin" got started. It's one for one! All of the transliteration systems spit out the same result. If the monument at his grave (http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/02/53/88/69_full.jpg) is any indication, there hasn't been a change in the way his name was spelled in the Cyrillic alphabet. Yet these errors were introduced and they persist.

By the way, I notice that every reference I've seen online gives his rank as colonel, but his grave proclaims him a major general.

45lcshooter
February 15, 2013, 01:15 PM
Mosin

YZ
April 12, 2013, 01:10 AM
More sin.

tahunua001
April 12, 2013, 01:30 AM
mosin nagant. named for the two men that designed it... seriously, every company that imports and sells them lists them as MOSIN NAGANTS...

meanmrmustard
April 12, 2013, 05:24 AM
And I believe the correct pronunciation is Moseen.
Yes tis.

ObsidianOne
April 12, 2013, 05:38 AM
Mosin Nagant. Pronounced Mo-Seen Nah-Gahn. However, I find you get less strange looks if you pronounce it Moe-zin.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

foghornl
April 12, 2013, 01:11 PM
"Noisy Magnet" :D:evil::D:evil::D:evil::D

morcey2
April 12, 2013, 01:38 PM
Mosin Nagant. Pronounced Mo-Seen Nah-Gahn. However, I find you get less strange looks if you pronounce it Moe-zin.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
<pet-peeve rant>
A Nagant is a revolver. Nothing to do with a Mosin.
</pet-peeve rant>

BigG
April 12, 2013, 01:55 PM
IT was transliterated Moisin for all the gun magazines and books I read from the 50's and 60's. I never got into them, but I know what I read.

tahunua001
April 12, 2013, 01:56 PM
I do not believe anyone has refered to this particular family of guns as a Nagant in this thread... ranting aside you are off topic, sir!

Cosmoline
April 12, 2013, 02:44 PM
I agree "Moisin" predates Enemy at the Gates. But "Mosin" is the proper one, used by Lapin and the other experts. Remember that until the 1990's, Mosin-Nagants were kind of mysterious beasts. We had the M91's from the Czar's cancelled order, and some bits and pieces from Finnish arsenals. But the Soviet and Chinese beasts were kind of rare birds. Reports of new models were something the spooky guys took note of and analyzed from B&W photos taken of Czech border posts. So the information was choppy. Now there are so many even people who don't know they have Mosin-Nagants are likely to find them lurking in closet corners. Crates of them could be found by the gun store cash register alongside the take-a-penny-leave-a-penny jar.

YZ
April 12, 2013, 04:34 PM
They almost left Nagant out of the Mosin, but agreed to hyphenate so he won't sue for patent infringement. True story.
The French pronounce Nah-GAHN, as do the Russians.
MO-sin Nah-GAHN.

Sergei Mosin
April 12, 2013, 07:19 PM
I think the Spanish Mosins were the first to be imported in any significant quantities, this during the 1950s.

Snowdog
April 13, 2013, 05:05 AM
"Noisy Magnet"

A buddy of mine insists on calling it a "moist maggot" and refuses to be corrected. He refers to the rifle as such to other as if they should know which rifle he's talking about.

Droid noob
April 13, 2013, 08:09 AM
It's "moist nugget".

HoosierQ
April 13, 2013, 08:41 AM
I think this has cleared it up...it's neither since the alphabet used to spell the man's name (and his gun) doesn't have English counterparts. Lots of languages are like that. I guess we'll just have to stick to Мосин which is what it really is. Mosin seems an acceptable English spelling. I too used to do the "Moisin" thing, knowing no better. Мосин it is then!

Dave Markowitz
April 13, 2013, 09:14 AM
<pet-peeve rant>
A Nagant is a revolver. Nothing to do with a Mosin.
</pet-peeve rant>

The Mosin rifle borrowed some details from the competing Nagant design. There was a dispute over who designed the interruptor, Sergei Mosin or Leon Nagant. Since the result was something of a fusion, Mosin-Nagant is a reasonable name for the gun.

carbine85
April 13, 2013, 10:37 AM
Mosin Nagant. Pronounced Mo-Seen Nah-Gahn. However, I find you get less strange looks if you pronounce it Moe-zin.
This is correct.

MedWheeler
April 14, 2013, 11:58 AM
Morcey2 writes:

A Nagant is a revolver. Nothing to do with a Mosin.

Nagant made revolvers, but that is not the only type of firearm Nagant was involved with.


There were some Nagant features added to the Mosin rifle design that had been submitted to the Soviet government during rifle trials. There is some good reading about these features, and the rest of the story, at the link below. It is true, though, that the "Mosin-Nagant" moniker was never officially used in the USSR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin%E2%80%93Nagant

AethelstanAegen
April 14, 2013, 12:12 PM
it's neither since the alphabet used to spell the man's name (and his gun) doesn't have English counterparts

You're correct of course that Мосин is in Cyrillic. But there are some generally accepted transliterations of Cyrillic into the Latin alphabet (including used by Russians for texting). While you can have debates about how some Cyrillic letters should be transliterated, Мосин is pretty unequivacably transliterated as Mosin (as anything else would be adding sounds to the word). There's really no justification for Moisin as you've added a sound that is not there in the original Russian.

morcey2
April 14, 2013, 04:39 PM
If there can be an 'R' in "wash", why can't there be another 'I' in "mosin"? :evil:

Ar180shooter
April 14, 2013, 04:58 PM
They almost left Nagant out of the Mosin, but agreed to hyphenate so he won't sue for patent infringement. True story.
The French pronounce Nah-GAHN, as do the Russians.
MO-sin Nah-GAHN.
The Russian name for the Mosin-Nagant is Винтовка Мосина (Vintovka Mosina - pronounced veen-toef-kah mo-see-na, stress on the penultimate syllable of both words, the o in mosin lacking stress becomes a shwa, IPA - ə, like the a in about), which translates to Rifle of Mosin. They don't include the Nagant.

Ash
April 14, 2013, 09:42 PM
Indeed, the correct term is Three Line Rifle. Nagant got no credit anywhere in Russia or the Soviet Union.

And how do you say it? Well, we speak English and there is nothing wrong with using English pronunciations. Mosin is fine. The French refuse to use English pronunciation, as to the French and even the English :)

Mosin collectors (most usually saying Mozin) seldom mention Nagant, and even then, say Nuh-gant. I don't waste time with Waloon pronunciation since they don't say my name the way I say it. Fine by me. I once called them Nagant rifles but learned better - though I think Berdan is the real influence here, and he was American.

Trying to be correct can be important, but trying too hard is unnecessary. We have no problem with the word Germany, even though the Germans don't call it that.

Ar180shooter
April 14, 2013, 10:34 PM
Indeed, the correct term is Three Line Rifle. Nagant got no credit anywhere in Russia or the Soviet Union.

And how do you say it? Well, we speak English and there is nothing wrong with using English pronunciations. Mosin is fine. The French refuse to use English pronunciation, as to the French and even the English :)

Mosin collectors (most usually saying Mozin) seldom mention Nagant, and even then, say Nuh-gant. I don't waste time with Waloon pronunciation since they don't say my name the way I say it. Fine by me. I once called them Nagant rifles but learned better - though I think Berdan is the real influence here, and he was American.

Trying to be correct can be important, but trying too hard is unnecessary. We have no problem with Germany, even though the Germans don't call it that.
Yes, the official designation was "3 line rifle, model 1891".

One line being an old unit of measurement used by Imperial Russia, 1/10". Interestingly enough, the sights on the Mosin-Nagant were originally in arshins (2 1/3') rather than yards or meters.

YZ
April 15, 2013, 12:42 AM
xxx

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