Going to get a J-Frame for pocket carry... Which one?

I've had my CPL for 5 years now and I recently got my first revolver (SP101 with 4.2" barrel and target sights) and realize I really like revolvers. Having fired a few rounds through a S&W Scandium .357, I KNOW I am looking for a .38 Special +P revolver that will fit in my pocket. I am not opposed to IWB belt carry either. I only carry one gun at a time and have no problem with carrying something small with few shots.

I like the features and function of the S&W 638, it's a classic. The Ruger LCR however has crept up on the Smith's territory and many people really like it. It appears slightly larger than the Smith J-Frames and I fear it wouldn't pocket as well. Do the grips that make the LCR such a pleasant shooter also make it harder to carry?

Any advice on which carries and shoots better?

I own a S&W 638 that I use for a pocket carry and it works quite well.
It's shoots well and at 7 yards double action I get about 6" groups on a silhoette target.

I got a S&W 642 I really like it. I chose the silver over the black as the sights are a little easier to see (for me)

I have a 642 Centennial that I pocket carry often, but in work pants, the butt tends to stick out. Don't like tuckable holsters, so I usually throw my LCP in a pocket when I wear those pants. The Centennial is PERFECT for almost any other clothes though. Sometimes carry on a belt as well, and it works great there as well.

The 642 is a better choice than the 638 for pocket carry as its totally enclosed.

One must master the DA trigger, but if you're carrying it for defense, that should be a self-imposed requirement. You won't have time to thumb cock the gun in a defensive situation anyway, so you're not really giving up anything.

6" at 7 yds isn't all that great, unless that group was fired in 2.5 seconds. The gun can make hits on a 100 yd torso target, so it can hit things closer, too.

Slowfire, 7 yd groups should be golf ball size. 25 yds, about basketball size.

And carry a reload, at least in a speed strip.

642 with CT is the bee's knees in a pocket holster. Mine also holds a speed strip.

Do none of you guys own (or want) the Ruger LCR or are S&W J-Frames just that much better?

Another vote for the 642 -mine is a newer one without the lock. The rounded form of the gun hides better in the pocket than my Kahr semi

642. Excellent gun.

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I have a 38 and two 442's (the all black versions), and recommend the 442 (or 642) for pocket carry because they are closed. That is even more true if you carry them on an ankle, as lint can be a problem. If you go with the IWB, try it crossdraw for real comfort, no hip hitting. Also if you go ankle, you will really like a Galco ankle glove arrangement, you will literally forget it is there.

michaelmcgo: If you can find one you might give a S&W 640-1. I have had one of these for several years even put a crimson trace lazer sight on it. I pocket carry most of the time but have a fobus owb holster that I use also. This little gun conseals very I think, and does not snag on any thing coming out of my pocket or holster. Being that mine is SS it is a little bit heaver.than some S&W J models. But I shoot my 640-1 quite a bit and have gotten alot better than I ever thought I would. I carry both +P 38spl & 357 and find the recoil on the 357 is not that bad and I favor the 357 mag over the +P 38spl. I carry this gun alot because I find it very easy to use and to me very accurate, and with the Crimson Trace Lazer on it. I like it even more. I also carry a speed loader. Good Luck To You:
ken

I think my 642 is my favorite gun. Its just so darn cool and a true classic. I did add a houge monogrip which improves control but hurts concealment just a little.

The 642 is a better choice than the 638 for pocket carry as its totally enclosed.

One must master the DA trigger, but if you're carrying it for defense, that should be a self-imposed requirement. You won't have time to thumb cock the gun in a defensive situation anyway, so you're not really giving up anything.

6" at 7 yds isn't all that great, unless that group was fired in 2.5 seconds. The gun can make hits on a 100 yd torso target, so it can hit things closer, too.

Slowfire, 7 yd groups should be golf ball size. 25 yds, about basketball size.

And carry a reload, at least in a speed strip.
How about making my FIRST shot count?
I carry Speed Loader in another pocket!

IMHO there are a two things to take into consideration when choosing a J-Frame:
I don't like using a revolver in SA mode, because I won't be using SA when it counts. This, combined with reduced snag, means that on a J-frame you should probably get a hammerless, or shrouded, model. Personally though, I think a revolver without that hammer sticking out on the back just isn't a revolver - so I would always stick with one.
And secondly, cartridge: those air-lite scandium revolvers are great if you're just going to be shooting 38spl - they truly do just disappear into your pocket or an IWB - but you're going to end up with a headache and a wristache if you try shooting 357 through them. If you're going to be loading 357, get the heaviest, thickest, all-steel j-frame you can find.

IMHO the j-frame S&W's are superior to the Ruger. Some dealers stock a special model in the j frame series that have what's called the S&W Super Tuned Trigger, I think Davidsons distributes them. They come with a perfromance center tuned trigger and tag in the box, but WITHOUT the Performance Center engraving.

How about making my FIRST shot count?

Where did I say NOT making your first (and every) shot count? Of course you make each shot count. Or are you saying that you cock the hammer on your 638 to ensure a good hit? If so, then more DA practice is indicated.

Do none of you guys own (or want) the Ruger LCR or are S&W J-Frames just that much better?
I got my 642 over the LCR because it was less expensive, fit in my pocket better and I thought it looked better. So far with thousands of miles in a pocket holster climbing mountains and crawling through tunnels it still functions flawlessly and no one knows its there but me.

Where did I say NOT making your first (and every) shot count? Of course you make each shot count. Or are you saying that you cock the hammer on your 638 to ensure a good hit? If so, then more DA practice is indicated.
It makes little sense to me to shoot my 638 single action, not much of a hammer spur there anyway.
This IS my primary carry weapon and I practice shooting double action on a regular, at least weekly,basis.

Another vote for 642, satin silver finish. See if you can find one without the internal lock.

Do none of you guys own (or want) the Ruger LCR or are S&W J-Frames just that much better?

I have the 357 LCR and the 638. I prefer the 638 because I like having the SA option available. I also seem to be more accurate with the 638 in DA. Im not sure why. I had trouble adjusting to the LCR trigger, I think the let off was causing me to shoot low. I do shoot it well now, but still just prefer the 638. They are both excellent snubs, and no, I dont think the J Frames are any better than the LCRs.

I have several Smith J frames but one that is quickly becoming my favorite is the new Bodyguard 38 spl.
Picked it up around Christmas and have fallen in love with it.

I'm gonna throw my hat in for the 642, or a 38 Special Ruger LCR.

It makes little sense to me to shoot my 638 single action, not much of a hammer spur there anyway.
This IS my primary carry weapon and I practice shooting double action on a regular, at least weekly,basis.

Makes perfect sense to me.

I carry a 642 in a Robert Mika pocket holster, I don't even notice it in my pocket.

442 in a Mika in front pocket.

Model 38 Airweight, 15 ounces loaded. It has the bodyguard style shrouded hammer. You can cock it and shoot it or shoot it DA. You can shoot it from (thru) your jacket pocket and not snag the hammer on your jacket. Kind of tough on the jacket:D But in the right situation not a bad feature to have.

I carry a 642 in an Uncle Mike's #3 pocket holster.

I was going to spend more for a holster, but the cheapie works great, so I stuck with it.

I love the lcr 38. I pocket carry it in cargo shorts in warm weather. Iwb carry it in a Remora holster sometimes also. The Hogue grip isn't too big. I would definitely swap the grips if I was wanting to pocket carry a lot.

I feel the lcr trigger is better than the 642. I just like the length of pull and it feels like a lighter trigger.

Chalk up another vote for the 442 or 642 (I favor the 442 as its black finish perhaps aids concealment a mite and the 642's (as with the 637's) clearcoat finish (on the recent models) has a tendency to peel off.

S&W apparently still does runs of no-lock models from time to time.

I use a Kramer pocket holster if I use a holster at all.

I use a Kramer pocket holster if I use a holster at all.

It's always a good idea to use a holster, even in the pocket.

I have a 642 that I bought in December. It's a GREAT carry gun. I put a set of wood S&w magna grips on it, they are nowhere near as comfortable as the rubber factory grips, but they make it much easier to draw from my pocket. I'm going to send off for a T-Grip to give me a bit more control with the magna grips.

Love both my Model 649 and my Model 638. I carry the 649 in an OWB holster and the 638 either in an IWB or else a pocket holster. I have always liked all of the J frame snubbies but settled on a Model 38 over 30 years ago and have stayed with that particular type of concealed hammer design ever since.

With the small wood grips, it's pretty hard to beat a "J" Frame for consealment.
Uncle Mikes Boot Grip dosen't add to awful much bulk

When I'm in a gunshop, I don't even give the Ruger a second glance . . . I'm looking for a good, vintage S&W.

1. The steel framed ones are easiest to "plink" with due to the extra weight.

2. The Scandium framed ones (AirLite) are lightest to tote BUT

3. The ALUMINUM framed (Airweight) versions are also light without being brutal, so in self defense you've got speed of draw, light weight for reduced "J-frame Jiggle" in pocket carry PLUS just enough weight to make them fast, fun AND easy to shoot.

HANDS DOWN AN AIRWEIGHT FOR LIGHT, ACCURATE SELF DEFENSE.

To Hammer, or Not To Hammer, that is the question . . .

It truly doesn't matter to me, I like 'em all and with the proper holsters, the hammer spur has never snagged on me in many years of toting and practice.

MY SELF DEFENSE J-FRAMES . . .

1. Steel frame for belt or IWB carry . . . Model 36

2. Airweight (aluminum frame) for light, "always on you carry . . . its identical but lighter brother, the Model 37.

3. AirLite? Wouldn't own one, never recommend one. Too danged light so it promotes barrel rifling torque which can slightly twist your gun out of perfect alignment in your grip . . . imperceptible but you are no longer hitting accurately. Plus, some specific bullets in that ultra-light revolver can "jump the crimp" and potentially lock up the gun! If I were dictator of the entire world I'd ban 'em for the novice shooter . . . and experienced shooters rarely would buy one for all the reasons I've listed above.

Accuracy? Standing, unsupported @ ten yards? All five rounds within an inch; at 25 yards typically all five rounds inside of 2 1/2 inch. Snubbies CAN be accurate but sight alignment, grip and technique are more critical to be ultra consistent vs. longer barreled models!

Good luck!!!

PS: My "ALWAYS ON ME" Model 37 Airweight . . .
http://www.moviephotoforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/IMG_1153pcropped.jpg

BTW, I carried my Model 36 and thought it was great for pocket carry . . . UNTIL I got to carry and Airweight. I instantly understood the benefits of a gun light enough not to notice and heavy enough to tame just enough of the recoil!

I have a 640 and the weight does help with recoil, but I still find it a less than fun gun to shoot. 38 Special is not too bad, 357Mag is rough. I haven't fired the super lightweight j-frames but I imagine that recoil is much rougher, which would make it less likely that I would shoot it enough to feel proficient. As a side note, my 640 had the internal lock, which was not likely to ever give me a problem, but I want a revolver to be 100% reliable. I found a gunsmith who was willing to remove the locking pin, asking only that I signed a release of liability (although if I ever sell the gun there is no way it can be traced back to him for doing this work; I don't even remember his name or where we works from). The 640 is a reassuringly solid gun, and I have both a pocket holster and an IWB holster. I keep it loaded with 38+p most of the time, but I know I should keep 357mag in it since with only a 2-inch barrel it is not the most powerful handgun.

I own, and carried for a while, a S&W 442, and I don't like it near as much as the 2-1/2"bbl S&W 637 Airweight that I replaced it with. The 637 fits in a pocket in a Desantis Nemesis just fine, the hammer does not impede draw if your thumb is in the right place, and the hammer and extra barrel greatly improve my targeting ability. YMMV.

Sitting with an LCR .357 in a DeSantis pocket holster right now. The LCR with the Houge Grips is the only .357 snubby that is actually comfortable to fire more than a cylinder full through at a time(for me). Those snubby .357 Smiths are BEAUTIFUL but a grenade blast to shoot. The LCR isnt that heavy or bulky in the DeSantis.

Since changing to a 642 in a Mika pocket holster, it has been my 24/7 EDC - and I am well satisfied with it. I've added a 632 Pro and a 351PD since, as well - but they see little 'pocket time' - my 642 is #1 in my pocket carry rotation. It's with me cutting the grass, shopping, and even in church. On trips, I'll carry an HKS #36 Speedloader with five more 158gr LHPSWC +P's - usually in the car.

Note: The 351PD weighs 5 oz less empty - it's seven Hornady 45gr FTX 'Critical Defense' .22 WMR rounds weighing a lot less than five .38's - probably a good choice where weight is a problem.

Stainz

My wife really prefers the out-of-the box trigger pull of her LCR. The out-of-the box trigger pull on my 442 felt a little heavier and rougher to her.

I weigh twice what she does, my hands are massive compared to hers, and I think that although the pulls on the LCR and 442 are different, they're both perfectly acceptable for use as defensive firearms.

Trigger pull, like everything else, is in the eye (or hand) of the beholder.

I carry a 1970 version of the Bodyguard, a Model 38.
Looks funny, but doesn't snag on the clothing when drawing it from a pocket holster.

http://www.jbabcock.net/guns/M38-c.jpg

S&Wfan, I carry an AirLite and don't agree about the experienced shooters not wanting them. Bought it used from a cop that shot 5 rounds through it and traded it in...the Sc frame with 357 IS brutal.

I carried it and fired 357 for a little while but it HURTS to shoot - bites my fingers. So, I now load 38+P and love the weight and shoot it fairly well for self defense.

I have not fired the aluminum airweights so I can't comment as to which is better - actually not a J-frame fan (I like N's), but wanted one to carry when waist holster wouldn't work.

Anyway, I would not tell people to stay away from Sc as long as they DON"T shoot 357 through them. Just my $0.02

I've had a LCR (.38spl) for about a year and a half. It's a great CCW gun and I'd recommend it if you like snub nosed revolvers. It's the lightest snubbie that I've handled but I'll be honest with you. It's not that much lighter than my wife's S&W Airweight (38-2). Either one is easy to carry. The trigger is clearly better on the Ruger. It's not bad on the S&W but the Ruger wins hands down.
My stepfather recently bought a S&W Airweight (model 638) and I've been shooting it a bit lately. I like it but again... the trigger is better on the Ruger.
The aftermarket is MUCH better for the Airweights.
Either gun is a good choice in my opinion. It's all down to what you want. If you're counting ounces and don't plan on making changes then the Ruger wins. If you want to change the grips or shoot single action as well as double action then the S&W is a better pick.
Both are price within $20 of each other in my area.

I did a review of the LCR last year. Please delete this post if I'm stepping on anyone's toes by including this link.

http://thedaywalkersdad.blogspot.com/2012/09/ruger-lcr-review.html

I'm a 638/649 kinda guy. They aren't the prettiest, but they're the easiest/smoothest to consistently draw from concealment *and* still have SA capability.

I would up with a 1968 Charter Undercover but those J frame Smith's are some great guns.

I have tried almost all variations of .38 j frame (442, 632, 36, 642, 37, 38 and 342) and I have "evolved" to this.
Probability of needing it - low
Probability of needing it and needing to shoot through obstacles - Lower
Probability of me pausing to take a well aimed single-action shot while pumped full of adrenaline, rather than taking that time running for cover - Lowest.

Probability of me taking it with me more when it is the smallest, lightest piece I can find - High

Therefore, as much as I like the old-timers, it is a 342 for me.

The 36, 37 and 38 may fit better in my collection but the 342 fits better in my pocket.

442 Moon Clip. No internal lock, tough finish...and you get moon clips, which are fantastic; IWB rig and you've got an excellent personal defense revolver set-up.

Do none of you guys own (or want) the Ruger LCR or are S&W J-Frames just that much better?
I agree on either a 6/442 (or an LCR), instead of the 6/438.

My brother has an LCR, and pocket-carried it when he was visiting us here in AZ. I generally make it a habit to look for guns printing on peoples' clothing, because I enjoy it when I'm able to "make" someone. Also, I knew he brought his LCR with him... but I still didn't realize it was in his front-left pocket of his jeans, until he pointed it out and asked if it was obvious; and that was before he bought the Desantis Nemesis pocket holster for it.

Point is, the LCR will pocket-carry just fine. I'd have equal faith in either a no-lock 642 or the LCR; if I were buying one myself, I probably wouldn't buy a Smith with the internal lock unless it was quite a bit cheaper than the LCR.

I feel the LCR trigger is better than the 642. I just like the length of pull and it feels like a lighter trigger.
Agreed.

I'm not one for pocket carry as a general rule, but, I am a fan of the J Frame. I've been an LEO since the mid-1970s and over that time have owned and carried several Model 60s. My current Model 60-9 got claimed by my wife a couple of years ago - LOL. I replaced it with a Model 649 and it is a true classic. Last year, I came across a vintage Model 36-1 (NIB). I quickly snagged this little gun and have come to regard it as my all time favorite. The steel frame and 3 inch barrel make it a pleasure to shoot and really tames the recoil. The longer barrel gives it an edge and puts it on par accuracy wise with the larger K Frame.

You can't go wrong with a J Frame.

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I'm a bit partial to the Model 38. I've had no issues with the shrouded hammer. I'd say buy what you get a good deal on.

I'm tossing my vote on a 638 or a 442. I originally had the Smith 442, but sold it to my friend. Then I got the Ruger LCR (in a .357). I really liked the trigger pull and grips, but found it to be a little thicker to pocket carry. That and you have to be careful to let the trigger reset properly. I've had issues, once in a while where I didn't let it fully reset, and then you can't fire the gun. I don't need that option, happening to me in a stressful situation. So, while I kept it as a range toy, I ended getting a 638. I miss my 442 and might get one, once the madness dies down. Regardless, Smiths are more forgiving with short trigger resets and I've never had that problem happen to me while shooting them.

I vote with S&WFan: make mine a 37. Went shopping for a 642 and came home with a 45 year old 37. Didn't look like it had ever been fired. Learned to love the little bugger.

Hope to add a 36 if I can find a good one at a reasonable price.