308 sizing trouble


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BullSkater
February 14, 2013, 08:24 PM
Just tried to size some assorted once fired 308 brass lubed with stp. About half of them could not be sized. I weigh 270lbs and use a rcbs full lenght and a small base die with a rcbs jr. Have not loaded rifle ammo in years so was wondering what equipment would make this job easy?

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rcmodel
February 14, 2013, 08:38 PM
Proper case sizing lube.

STP isn't it.

rc

BullSkater
February 14, 2013, 08:44 PM
I tried some rcbs lube. It was no better than the stp.

rcmodel
February 14, 2013, 08:47 PM
Is the sizing die adjusted correctly in the press?

Ram all the way up, sizing die screwed down against the shell holder.
Then lower the ram and screw it down a little more and lock it down.

That gives you the full mechanical advantage of the linkage as it toggles over.

No reason then you cannot resize .308 cases all day long.


The only other thing it could be is the de-priming rod is screwed down so far it is hitting the inside case web.

If it is that, you probably already bent it.

rc

cemjr
February 14, 2013, 09:31 PM
At my first attempt of loading 308 win. (once fired LC brass, using Lyman case lube) I stuck a case in my sizing die. It was an unbelievable pain to get out (drill and tap the primer pocket). My second go round, I switched to RCBS lube and had better success.

BullSkater
February 14, 2013, 09:34 PM
It is adjusted as you discribed. I removed the depriming rod also. No better.

beatledog7
February 14, 2013, 09:38 PM
About half of them could not be sized.

Could you be more specific? Exactly what problem are you having?

BullSkater
February 14, 2013, 09:45 PM
The brass stop about half way into the die. I have changed dies, lube and stood on the press handle but some cases will not work. The cases are clean, the brass is mixed factory fired in bolt action rifles. The depriming rod was removed to insure it was not in the way. I tried cleaning the dies and cases. Would like to use mil brass but may need a different setup.

hueyville
February 14, 2013, 09:54 PM
Let's start simple. Are the dies marked .308 or 7.62 x 51 or other? What brand? Does the brass look bulged like it may have been fired in an out of spec chamber?

BullSkater
February 14, 2013, 10:00 PM
RCBS full length and small base dies. Cases look fine. Some must have been loaded hot but they are not bulged. I have some mil ammo that I pulled the bullets out of. They are new never fired. I can't get them to size.

T Bran
February 14, 2013, 10:16 PM
Very odd for sure.
I cant think of a reason that it would take that much effort to squeeze even a badly buldged case into the die.
I have crammed cut off 30/06 cases lightly lubed with STP into a .308 die with very little effort. The die was resizing the body as well as forming a new neck and shoulder at the same time with nary a problem.
I'm not saying that STP is even close to the perfect lube but it should do the job in a pinch.
Is it possible that the press is binding on itself somewhere causing added resistance ?
The only other thought I have is to try annealing a few of the problem cases.
Luck.
T

Walkalong
February 14, 2013, 10:29 PM
Did you have the ram at the top of the stroke when you screwed the die down to meet the shell holder? If it isn't at the top when it meets the die, you will not have the leverage needed to size brass.

BullSkater
February 14, 2013, 10:39 PM
That is the problem Walkalone. I raised the die one and one half turn higher and they sized like butter. Thanks

rcmodel
February 15, 2013, 10:36 AM
Gosh, I thought we had that covered in post #4.

rc

thomis
February 15, 2013, 01:56 PM
Glad you got that solved. That can be frustrating.
Carry on!

RainDodger
February 15, 2013, 03:12 PM
Nobody mentioned the small base die... that's a question too. What's the need for it? In all my years of reloading, I've never had a rifle that really required a small base die. None of the semi-autos, and none of the lever actions either.

Just curious what you're shooting that requires it.

fguffey
February 15, 2013, 03:56 PM
Bull Skater,

“I weigh 270lbs and use a RCBS full length and a small base die with a RCBS jr. press”

nothing wrong with the 270 pounds, then there is the Jr. press, at the last gun show in Dallas at Market hall I sold a Rock Chcuker and a Jr. My advise to the new happy owner of the Jr. press I cautioned him about limitations. I informed him I had a RCBS press that was less effective, it is a Pardner. he was polite and informed me he had a Rock Chucker and was aware standing on the handle was more about bad habits than the limitations of the press.

I have one grand daughter that has an interest in what I do when reloading. Speed? as in cases sized per minute? I am never in mortal combat with reloading, kindergarten, maximum weight 70 lbs.. the press is high enough for her to pull the press handle with her feet off the ground, after the handle makes the turn, she releases the handle then pushes the headle through its arch while standing up. She does not start on another case until I tell her what a magnificent job she did on the last case sized. And yes, it scares me to think about the small hands and fingers working with presses.

She raises the handle when lowering the ram by placing the handle on her shoulder and pushing up.

I have neck sizer dies, I have small base dies, I have case forming dies, and I have full length sizing dies. I have had collectors/shooters/reloaders send me dies with cases stuck in them, I have removed the stuck cases, used some of my lubes, and attempted to size my cases in their dies, same thing, stuck cases. One occasion I stuck 5 cases out of 10, then things improved, by the time I sized 50 cases the die started working in a predictable manner. When I ask him about the stuck cases he started with “I cleaned the die with etc., etc., and that is when the problem started. I clean dies with a towel on a dowel, I do not use a degreaser, when my dies work I do not want to de- anything, I apply the leaver policy, when I find it works I leaver the way I found-er.

For most case sizing anything works, for the rest??? Helping a friend that insist on Imperial and Dillon in the can and or bottle I never knew if the die was going to give the case back, there were times I thought we were going to brake something, like the die and or press or neck sizer assembles. I offered to return home and get some different lube, back to the part where I said there is Imperial and Dillon, out side of those two choices there is nothing. AND I am not going to change that.

I purchased a set of 44 Special/44 Remington Magnum RCBS carb. dies for $5.00, he offered to clean them, the $5.00 price was based on too ugly to be worth more, I left the dies with the instructions nothing was to be done to the inside of the dies. He returned the dies, in all appearance the set looked like he swapped his dies for my dies. Lucky for me, I found the dies just before the disappearance of equipment and components. Still waiting to feel the effect of the crises.

F. Guffey

fguffey
February 15, 2013, 04:18 PM
RainDodger,

I have small base dies, I have BAR dies, I do not use them but JIC, as in ‘just in case’ I have them, I have sized cases with the Browning Automatic Rifle dies and compared the difference with cases sized in good full length sizer dies, measuring the difference required some very fine equipment.

Then always left out, ignored or forgotten is the 30/06 ammo that was fired in 03s, M1917s and M1s, one case fit all, the M1 had a different chamber, the M1 had an additional clearance of .00023 for ease of ejection. I am told they (back in the big inning) could not hold clearance that close, when Bridgeport was hauled off I managed to acquire a gage that started at .000005”, useless to me I removed the Pratt and Whitney stuff from the tool and installed a dial indicator on the stylist that read 1 turn = .100” (or .000” plus or – .050” either side of .000”) even then I still had an option, I have dial indicators that read .000” +/- .010” either side of .000”.

F. Guffey

fguffey
February 15, 2013, 04:38 PM
“Did you have the ram at the top of the stroke when you screwed the die down to meet the shell holder? If it isn't at the top when it meets the die, you will not have the leverage needed to size brass”.
__________________


“that is the problem Walkalone. I raised the die one and one half turn higher and they sized like butter. Thanks”

“Gosh, I thought we had that covered in post #4”

remodel, can you believe these guys, not giving you credit, being ignored bothers you more than it bothers me.

Someone else help me with the three responses above, PLEASE!

To start with, adjusting the die off the shell holder, in my most humble opinion, limits full length sizing, the press still has the leverage to size, with the die adjusted off the shell holder prevents the case from being sized to minimum length, I am the fan of backing the die off the shell holder because I know the length of the chamber.

Just after the die adjustment the OP says he backed the die off 1 and a half turn, 1 and 1/2 turn of the shell holder is .106”, a die that is backed off .106” is not sizing the case body and or shoulder, a die when backed out .106 is, at best neck sizing the case.

Post #4:

Is the sizing die adjusted correctly in the press?

Ram all the way up, sizing die screwed down against the shell holder.
Then lower the ram and screw it down a little more and lock it down.

That gives you the full mechanical advantage of the linkage as it toggles over.

No reason then you cannot resize .308 cases all day long.


The only other thing it could be is the de-priming rod is screwed down so far it is hitting the inside case web.

If it is that, you probably already bent it.

rc
__________________

F. Guffey

Xelera
February 15, 2013, 10:41 PM
Bullskater -

You said you removed your decapping pin to see if that was the problem. Don't forget to put it back in now that your problem is solved, as the ball on the rod sizes the inside of the case mouth/neck. You can size without it, but you will have to add a seperate step to resize this portion of the brass later, prior to seating bullets, or use custom sizing dies to minimize the amount of neck sizing (I believe Forster will custom hone their dies for a customer).

DM.Logan
February 15, 2013, 10:46 PM
the same thing happend to me, i ended up switching to one shot case lube and made especially sure i lubed inside the neck good. worked like a dream

DM.Logan
February 15, 2013, 10:48 PM
but it looks like you fixed it in the time it took me to reply lol. sweet i love .308

rcmodel
February 15, 2013, 11:57 PM
remodel, can you believe these guys, not giving you credit, being ignored bothers you more than it bothers me.fguffey
What bothers me more is:

You need to learn how to do "quotes" in your posts properly when you try to do quotes of what I, or others, may, or may not have said. :p

rc

fguffey
February 16, 2013, 01:05 AM
remodel, can you believe these guys, not giving you credit, being ignored bothers you more than it bothers me.



“fguffey,

What bothers me more is:

You need to learn how to do "quotes" in your posts properly when you try to do quotes of what I, or others, may, or may not have said. “

A die is backed off 1 1/2 turns (.106”) and the forum declares the OPs problem is solved? I understand I am under no obligation to try or make any attempt to work with the OP, my opinion, he deserves better than he got.

Back to what bothers you, work on your responses, I am not in a popularity contest, I am not running for office, and I believe I am beyond being petty enough to claim I deserve credit, my ego does not demand that.

I did ask for help, I could not see how the OP gleaned enough information from the above post to determine he needed to back the die off .106”.

Is it me? Or does adjusting the die off the shell holder .106" off the shell holder sound like neck sizing to you also.

F. Guffey

thomis
February 16, 2013, 12:12 PM
I'm locking this thread because the OP's problem was solved and the incessant BS is giving me a headache.
Oh wait, I'm not an administrator!

Walkalong
February 16, 2013, 12:20 PM
Not a bad idea.

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