The're scared.....


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Archangel14
February 14, 2013, 08:35 PM
I've figured out that many anti-gunners are just scared of people that have guns. I understand that many are just power hungry freaks (such as many of the higher level politicians calling for repressive gun control). But many of your everyday people are simply scared. And there's a reason for it....

We've become such a soft society. People no longer kill their own meat, few raise their own crops. The daily reality for everyday Americans is a life of ease. Sure, you have to work, but do you have to break your ass on the farm to make the simple bills? Look around, see all the fat bodies walking out of the many fast food restaurants. Few of our citizens have had to face the in-your-face rigors of war. Many of us know only soft living, far too many.

And that leads to weak minds, weak fortitude. They fear the strong, self-reliant man or woman with a gun. For the most part, my gun owning pals are hard working people who understand life's realities. Many anti-gunner are scared of such armed people. They're projecting. They're scared. And you know what that tells me? We've already won. We're the Alpha dogs; they're the whiny little yappers. Keep your heads up, make yourselves heard and keep moving forward. In the end, we can only come out ahead.

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USAF_Vet
February 14, 2013, 08:44 PM
Hoo rah!

But... we haven't already one. Even cowards can have an influence. Cowards will talk to their reps and have them fight the battles. Cowards vote. Cowards are easily swayed by emotional rhetoric and deleted like Piers Morgan. Cowards use the internet to spread their fear and fear is contagious.

We might be the alpha dogs, but every alpha dog is surrounded. Every alpha dog has to constantly fight to maintain his status. And so we must also fight.

Jorg Nysgerrig
February 14, 2013, 08:48 PM
I think you're pretty much dead wrong.

A good number of us here on THR live a life of ease and would be pretty "soft" in your eyes.

Your diatribe is little more than typical internet chest-thumping. Alpha dogs? Give me a freakin' break. :rolleyes:

allaroundhunter
February 14, 2013, 08:54 PM
I was dove hunting on our family farm when a "neighbor" who lives roughly 850 yards away called the police about my father and I "firing in the air randomly, like terrorists"... I kid you not.

County LE arrived, and after talking with us and making sure everything was safe and in order, she went to the complainants residence. When the homeowner opened the door for the officer, she said he went pale white. The first thing out of his mouth was asking her to remove her sidearm and leave it in her patrol car because it scared him....

Some people are just scared. I would more blame how they get their education. More people now learn everything that they "know" about guns from the media as opposed to being taught by their fathers and grandfathers about how to live off the land. With the media so often reporting that "xxx went off by itself" and "citizens own assault rifles", the connotation of firearms can be scary for those who have no other experience and actual knowledge with them.

Shadow 7D
February 14, 2013, 08:54 PM
Kinda
most are apathetic and 'have no use' for guns, and TV says they are dangerous

these are the same people who have banned Peanut butter sandwiches....

What you need to be scared of is that they are useful idiots to those who wish to secure their power.

mcdonl
February 14, 2013, 09:01 PM
When the homeowner opened the door for the officer, she said he went pale white.

Haha. That's funny. Makes me laugh thinking of him going by my house during beavah season skinning and fleshing in my driveway.




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jamesbeat
February 14, 2013, 09:04 PM
You can tell by the way that they say 'well, I don't understand why anyone would need one of those' that they are not only hoplophobes, but also have fear and distain for people who aren't like them.

The modern day racist, homophobe etc. Nothing but simple bigotry.

VTmtn.man
February 14, 2013, 09:08 PM
The problem as I see it, is that we are nearing a tipping point. Whichever camp casts the mosts ballots gets it their way. The anti's have grown in number as you so aptly recounted.

My state of VT is, in a sene, a microcosm of the country. Staunch hunting firearm state all along, now we have larger metro areas filling up with people moving in bringing their 'more refined' sensibilities with them. VT is now on the verge of passing legislation that flies in the face of the 2nd Amend. The changing ideology of the populace has been allowed, in all branches of govenment, to erode the tenets of this Nation, that made it great. Our Constitution and BOR are not as immutable as our founding fathers designed them to be.

Hokkmike
February 14, 2013, 09:20 PM
I often wonder if I lived in the city near a rough neighborhood where the only association I had with firearms was personal, second hand, or nightly news knowledge about another person killed by one how I would feel about them.

As it is I am a country mouse and even the junior high girls here own and use firearms. In this case familiarity does not breed contempt but reduces hysterical fear to the level that causes an appropriate healthy respect and keeps people safe.

If more people engaged in shooting there would be a lot less irrational fear of guns motivating the antis.

We should institute a "Take a liberal to the range day" . And all of you gunner out there had better make sure you give your offspring the chance to like the shooting sports/art because the sentiment of today's youth will formulate tomorrow's laws.

sleepyone
February 14, 2013, 09:30 PM
I agree with you 100% archangel that our society has grown fat and soft, but I also agree with Jorg that many of us who may think we are hard and lean like our grandparents back in the day really have no idea what is was like to live back then and would be hard-pressed to adapt if we were thrown back into time where if you don't grow or kill your own food you starve, if you don't find and cut your own firewood you freeze, if you don't dig your own well and then dig it out when it collapses you die of dehydration, if you don't harvest enough hay to make it through the winter your animals die and if you don't know how to treat illness and injuries you bleed to death or die of infection. I could go on, but you get my point. I know I am a wuss compared to my grandparents, great-grandparents and their parents. Does that mean I could not learn to do those things? No, but I'm grateful I don't have to either.

gspn
February 14, 2013, 09:40 PM
I was dove hunting on our family farm when a "neighbor" who lives roughly 850 yards away called the police about my father and I "firing in the air randomly, like terrorists"... I kid you not.



AAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Sounds like he might have been watching ME dove hunt. I frequently shoot into the air in what might be mistaken for "randomness" as nothing ever falls.:D

Heck...even the dog wonders what I'm doing at times.

2ifbyC
February 14, 2013, 10:42 PM
Do some people have a fear of heights? Yes

Do some people have a fear of spiders? Yes

The list goes on.

The correlation you make is that people who fear guns or are fearful of people that own guns is because they are SOFT. The statements to back up your hypothesis are pure conjecture at best.

While I agree that many Americans have become SOFT, it is not due to their fear of gun toting people.

barnbwt
February 14, 2013, 10:47 PM
I've figured out that many anti-gunners are just scared of people that have guns.

It's not just guns, first off. Most people haven't lived as many (or any) of the experiences of us gun-nuts, and that ignorance breeds fear of the unknown. It's childish, and a product of people too lazy to go out and do things to learn themselves.

Second, does anyone else feel like watching Fight Club after all that posturing?

The daily reality for everyday Americans is a life of ease.
Dear GOD! How horrible! If only we lived a life where the weak were discarded, and all were tainted by war and hardship :rolleyes:. Sounds like something a Bolshevik would say, or perhaps a Taliban ;)

TCB

Impureclient
February 14, 2013, 10:56 PM
When you fire into the air randomly, the terrorists have won.

Manco
February 14, 2013, 11:15 PM
I think you're pretty much dead wrong.

A good number of us here on THR live a life of ease and would be pretty "soft" in your eyes.

Your diatribe is little more than typical internet chest-thumping. Alpha dogs? Give me a freakin' break. :rolleyes:

While I agree with your criticisms, I think there is some truth in what Archangel14 said, as well. The people of this country aren't as self-reliant in some ways as they once were, and have come to rely on and trust government as never before (not in a managerial sense but in terms of tyranny). That's how they've been conditioned to be over a long period of time, and I think that many of them are kind of intimidated (or at least weirded out) by those who are prepared to take care of emergencies by themselves. Because we don't rely entirely on the government for everything, including personal defense, we're different, which triggers their xenophobia, and on some subconscious level we may be viewed as challengers to government authority and therefore outlaws to be feared.

The latter, of course, has a basis in reality in accordance with the founding of this country and the true intent of the Second Amendment, and quite frankly guns both represent and manifest real power. At present many of the people of this country are afraid of such power, and want the government to have all of it to wield on their behalf (supposedly), which is the problem because ultimately only the people themselves can protect their own rights. There can be no land of the free if it's not the home of the brave, and most Americans these days would gladly sacrifice their freedom and their power over government in order to "feel safe." :rolleyes:

Gallstones
February 14, 2013, 11:37 PM
It's kind of hard to tell what the motivation is of the anti-gun rights people behind the forest of taking points they regurgitate in lockstep.

It seems that they are attached to their comforts (who wouldn't be right?) and they confuse some of the ugly truths of reality with threats to their comforts caused by scary things like people with guns--cause we are all the same don'tcha' know--People with guns are the thing to be feared not criminals; because anyone with a gun can flip out and become a criminal at the merest provocation. So they tell me.

They also seem to presume that the current status of comfort and perceived security should not only be guaranteed to continue (because that is what progress does) but is an entitlement for all the nice people for all time. They want to be taken care of and not have to do any of the dirty work themselves.

Additionally, too many of our citizens are either childishly naive and willing to be spoon fed by political pandering--told what to think, told what to want, told what is good--and/or are too intellectually lazy to get some facts and do their own thinking.

happygeek
February 14, 2013, 11:53 PM
Sure some of them are afraid, but that's mostly because the media sensationalizes "gun violence", never mentions that the homicide rate has dropped like a rock since 1991, and people haven't swung by the CDC's site and seen the #s on drunk driving fatalites. Myself, for example, not being involved in a gang, the drug trade, or having an affair am far, far more likely to be killed or maimed by a drunk driver than a gunman.

Most people also don't have much exposure to guns outside of the news & Hollywood and have no idea what the current gun laws are.

AlexanderA
February 15, 2013, 12:16 AM
Sorry, I can't relate to the original post. I'm with Jorg on this.

We don't serve the cause of gun rights by dividing the world into the superior "Alpha" "us" and the inferior, frightened "them." This is the worst form of stereotyping and bigotry.

Manco
February 15, 2013, 12:21 AM
Sure some of them are afraid, but that's mostly because the media sensationalizes "gun violence", never mentions that the homicide rate has dropped like a rock since 1991,

Well, it seems that violence--including murder--is somehow more acceptable when it is not committed using guns. That's the propaganda the mainstream media is bombarding the public with, on behalf of the government. Firearms are being singled out as the one thing we should not have the right to keep and bear, just because some criminals have committed crimes with them--they are the only tools that receive any blame for crimes.

and people haven't swung by the CDC's site and seen the #s on drunk driving fatalites.

People seem to think that the right to drink and the right to drive are fundamental, while the right to keep and bear arms is not. Obviously that is rather ironic.

Most people also don't have much exposure to guns outside of the news & Hollywood and have no idea what the current gun laws are.

That's right, they accept all of the falsehoods these media give them as truth (e.g. guns kill so guns are evil), and then demand more anti-gun laws despite the fact that such laws have zero effect on criminals, aside from making them (not the public) safer. They know nothing and don't care to learn on their own before infringing on a fundamental right--they feel that something must be done and trust the anti-gun politicians to protect them from evil NRA members who love guns and therefore want to murder children. :rolleyes:

We don't serve the cause of gun rights by dividing the world into the superior "Alpha" "us" and the inferior, frightened "them." This is the worst form of stereotyping and bigotry.

Perhaps, yet there is an "us" and a "them," however we wish to characterize it. Our goal should be to understand "them" and in true grassroots fashion try to convert as many of "them" into "us" as we can by making "them" understand "us"--that means teaching and learning, just as we have already been doing. Demonizing the other is done by both parties, and it sure would be helpful to find ways to overcome this barrier.

joeschmoe
February 15, 2013, 12:57 AM
They should be.

Ignition Override
February 15, 2013, 01:02 AM
Near Hernando MS, in a mostly rural area south of Memphis some ex-urban/suburban types heard people practicing with a rifle. They made a phone call........

The Sheriff's Dept. dispatched both a SWAT Team and helicopter to the area, until they discovered the panicked, ignorant people who apparently had no idea about rural lifestyles.

My wife has a friend from Syracuse NY who was trained as a concert pianist, performing here in the casual Renaissance club.
Her reminder to me after she heard about my hobby: "Don't shoot anybody", with a smile on her face.

HorseSoldier
February 15, 2013, 01:03 AM
This essay on why liberals should be pro-2A (http://www.thepolemicist.net/2013/01/the-rifle-on-wall-left-argument-for-gun.html?m=1) has been posted in other threads on here, but it includes some more careful consideration of why your generally left leaning, anti-gun person is coming from.

Alaska444
February 15, 2013, 01:06 AM
I think you're pretty much dead wrong.

A good number of us here on THR live a life of ease and would be pretty "soft" in your eyes.

Your diatribe is little more than typical internet chest-thumping. Alpha dogs? Give me a freakin' break. :rolleyes:
Yeah, don't tell my wife I am an alpha dog. That would be a good way to really end up in the doghouse and by the way, don't forget to take out the trash on the way out the door.

nazshooter
February 15, 2013, 01:07 AM
One theory I've seen is that seeing others who are prepared reminds them of danger and the fact that they themselves are not prepared.


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readyeddy
February 15, 2013, 01:33 AM
People who are unfamiliar with guns are often afraid of guns. I know this because I was once a person that did not own guns and I was afraid of guns until I became familiar. That's why it's important to take out newbies to the range to break the ice.

The stuff about alpha dogs and weak minded people is garbage. I know people who don't own guns who are tough as nails.

Manco
February 15, 2013, 03:40 AM
They should be.

Only criminals and the government, but that's redundant.

Her reminder to me after she heard about my hobby: "Don't shoot anybody", with a smile on her face.

Even a guy in a ski mask who just kicked in your front door?

One theory I've seen is that seeing others who are prepared reminds them of danger and the fact that they themselves are not prepared.

Yes, most certainly being in denial plays a major role in their way of thinking and their view of the world around them. In many cases this denial extends to completely and repeatedly ignoring plain facts and sound reasoning against their mindset. :banghead:

People who are unfamiliar with guns are often afraid of guns. I know this because I was once a person that did not own guns and I was afraid of guns until I became familiar. That's why it's important to take out newbies to the range to break the ice.

The stuff about alpha dogs and weak minded people is garbage. I know people who don't own guns who are tough as nails.

The issue is not necessarily inherent weakness, as people weren't born any tougher in the past--it's indoctrination in falsehoods and ignorance that makes people behave as they do today, whether this more generally (apart from firearms) involves weak or dependent behavior or not. And the alarming lack of critical thinking skills in the general population compounds the effect of ignorance--it's bad enough that they don't see, and it doesn't help that they're not even looking on their own (eyes wide shut, as it were).

BigBore44
February 15, 2013, 05:42 AM
Every post on this topic is correct in its own right. We are viewed as "Alpha Dogs" by some. People are weaker today than 60 years ago (due to technology enabling us to be so). We need to and understand "them" and they "us". Question is do either really want to? Or is it more effective to just call them sissies and them call us crazy gun toting lunatics. Neither side wins that one because neither is founded in entire truth. It's just a way to stereotype them and us. And last I checked we are all individuals. We won't change all their minds. Just try to change one. "The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step".

The entire debate from the left is not ignorance, as far as the government is concerned, it's about power and control. And they play it well by demonizing us and our firearms and scaring people into believing we are bad people and guns are the tool of satan. The "weak" in this country still have a voice. And the more scared of us they become, the louder their voices will be.

And remember, socialism can never take hold when there are millions of FREE people with guns. The left doesn't fear the gun. It fears the power that the gun gives the man or woman...and the masses. The more power we have, the less they have. We just have to be more greedy than the socialists.

Grassman
February 15, 2013, 05:57 AM
Every post on this topic is correct in its own right. We are viewed as "Alpha Dogs" by some. People are weaker today than 60 years ago (due to technology enabling us to be so). We need to and understand "them" and they "us". Question is do either really want to? Or is it more effective to just call them sissies and them call us crazy gun toting lunatics. Neither side wins that one because neither is founded in entire truth. It's just a way to stereotype them and us. And last I checked we are all individuals. We won't change all their minds. Just try to change one. "The journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step".

The entire debate from the left is not ignorance, as far as the government is concerned, it's about power and control. And they play it well by demonizing us and our firearms and scaring people into believing we are bad people and guns are the tool of satan. The "weak" in this country still have a voice. And the more scared of us they become, the louder their voices will be.

And remember, socialism can never take hold when there are millions of FREE people with guns. The left doesn't fear the gun. It fears the power that the gun gives the man or woman...and the masses. The more power we have, the less they have. We just have to be more greedy than the socialists.
Well said.

12131
February 15, 2013, 06:18 AM
People who are unfamiliar with guns are often afraid of guns. I know this because I was once a person that did not own guns and I was afraid of guns until I became familiar. That's why it's important to take out newbies to the range to break the ice.

The stuff about alpha dogs and weak minded people is garbage. I know people who don't own guns who are tough as nails.
Couldn't agree with you more. Every point you made is true.

1911Tuner
February 15, 2013, 06:28 AM
My 2% of a buck...

While I know there are a good many people who are gun phobic...mainly because of a lack of knowledge and understanding...I've come to the conclusion that the self-reliant man is envied rather than feared. They know in their hearts that, left to their own resources, they will discover that they don't have any...and they despise the ones who do.

They're uncomfortable with the presence of a man who can, in the words of HankII: "I can skin a buck and I can run a trot line and a country boy can survive." because he represents all that they are not.

They watch him repair his own car and set his own chain-link fencing...and because they can't do that...on a deep level, they resent him for being able to do what they feel that they can't or would never attempt. They prefer to bring him down to their level than aspire to rise to his. To summon help the way that they must because it makes them feel better about themselves.

They know that, in the event of a home invasion, they'd have to deal with the problem until the police come rolling up to their rescue, and they resent their gun-savvy neighbor because he has a skill that they aren't willing to acquire for one reason or another.

I've seen this in other ways. The former high school classmate who goes on to college and earns a comfortable living as a dentist or a doctor or an engineer is envied and despised by the guy who was once his pal, but who now works 60 hours a week at a low-paying job just to be able to eat and keep the lights turned on. He hates him for his success...even though he had the same opportunity but made the wrong choice.

The truly fearful...the ones who are literally paralyzed with fright at the mere sight of a gun...are to be pitied rather than hated.

Andreas
February 15, 2013, 07:21 AM
Shadow 7D
Kinda
most are apathetic and 'have no use' for guns, and TV says they are dangerous

these are the same people who have banned Peanut butter sandwiches....

What you need to be scared of is that they are useful idiots to those who wish to secure their power.

What's funny is that many (those younger than 30 or so at least)) are great fans of video games that feature firearms. Sometimes it can be a good basis for coversation (I have a friend from Montreal whose gun experience is limited to games. We have very interesting conversations on the subject). Other times they're just as afraid of them as anyone else who has never handled a firearm. It's unfortunate...

Sav .250
February 15, 2013, 07:30 AM
I think you're pretty much dead wrong.

A good number of us here on THR live a life of ease and would be pretty "soft" in your eyes.

Your diatribe is little more than typical internet chest-thumping. Alpha dogs? Give me a freakin' break. :rolleyes:
The 3rd sentence in your comments ...................Like it. From a Vet by the way!

AlexanderA
February 15, 2013, 09:26 AM
readyeddy wrote:

People who are unfamiliar with guns are often afraid of guns.

People who are familiar with guns should be "afraid" of them too. I've been around guns practically my whole life, and I've become more respectful of their capabilities for harm as time goes by. This "fear" is the bedrock of gun safety. Let's face it -- if guns were totally benign there wouldn't be much purpose in having them. Show me someone who's completely unafraid of guns and I'll show you an accident or a misuse waiting to happen.

Grassman
February 15, 2013, 10:47 AM
readyeddy wrote:



People who are familiar with guns should be "afraid" of them too. I've been around guns practically my whole life, and I've become more respectful of their capabilities for harm as time goes by. This "fear" is the bedrock of gun safety. Let's face it -- if guns were totally benign there wouldn't be much purpose in having them. Show me someone who's completely unafraid of guns and I'll show you an accident or a misuse waiting to happen.
Although I agree, I wouldn't use the word "afraid", its more of "respect" the guns ability.

J-Bar
February 15, 2013, 11:10 AM
This essay on why liberals should be pro-2A (http://www.thepolemicist.net/2013/01/the-rifle-on-wall-left-argument-for-gun.html?m=1) has been posted in other threads on here, but it includes some more careful consideration of why your generally left leaning, anti-gun person is coming from.
Excellent!

Thanks for the link.

browneu
February 15, 2013, 11:52 AM
I'd definitely call them ignorant. I don't think these people can live comfortably without some form of government control.

People move out of the Columbus into what they believe is their dream home in the country. They buy a little land and quickly learn they're out of their element.

Brother in law had new neighbors last winter. The following spring we begin to shoot clays and target shoot rifles. Most neighbors come over to shoot except the new ones. They call the sheriff. Not liking the sheriffs reply they have their house up for sale. Unfortunately they paid too much and the house is still for sale.

I've had new neighbors complain about the smell. I didn't know what they're talking about until I realized they're complaining about the farmers cows.

I have many other stories but don't want to drift too far off topic.

My point is people are ignorant of guns and true freedom. If anything they fear another person's freedom ad its something they can't control.

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Old Dog
February 15, 2013, 01:31 PM
The original post is exactly the type of commentary that I would NEVER want anyone with no experience of firearms or perhaps someone on the fence about RKBA reading.

Talk about alienating people. This type of posturing plays up to the stereotype held by our opposition of the American gun-owner -- loudmouth, brutish cammo-clad country music-listening chest-pounder proclaiming his superiority over the "sheeple" by virture of the fact that he owns guns and knows how to use them ... Sheesh.

AlexanderA's first post in the thread was good:
Sorry, I can't relate to the original post. I'm with Jorg on this.

We don't serve the cause of gun rights by dividing the world into the superior "Alpha" "us" and the inferior, frightened "them." This is the worst form of stereotyping and bigotry.

I've got some leftover cammies I wear when I mow the lawn; I can fish, trap, hunt, skin a rabbit or a buck, I listen to country music a lot, and I do own a gun or two ... I'm a veteran of a couple combat deployments, seen some stuff in my day, but I ain't no "Alpha dog." I've got a lot of friends with a lotta guns, but I've got some friends with no guns -- they don't have guns not 'cause they're scared of guns or scared of people with guns, and I'd never insult them by suggesting such -- they've simply not (yet) felt the desire or need to pick up guns -- I'm workin' on 'em, but I'm not gonna sway them to my way of thinking by labeling them as soft (they're not) or scared (they're not).

In fact, re-reading the original post, I'm almost insulted. We rail, moan, bitch and whine when we get stereotyped by anti-gun folk, and here we are now? Perpetuating stereotypes?

12131
February 15, 2013, 02:08 PM
Although I agree, I wouldn't use the word "afraid", its more of "respect" the guns ability.
Absolutely correct! How can someone who is familiar with guns (aka, tools) and be "afraid" of them? That just makes zero logical sense.

pseudonymity
February 15, 2013, 02:32 PM
A good number of us here on THR live a life of ease and would be pretty "soft" in your eyes.

I find this to be one of the greatest ironies of modern life - now that we have eliminated so many ways to die, the few that are left get so much more attention.

Even a hundred years ago, people cared for their lives as much as we do today, but since they were surrounded by risk their entire lives, they could not focus on just a few risks like we can today. If you lived in a world without antibiotics, vaccines or surgery; worked in factory where it was common for somebody to die due to an accident and accepted the fact that one of three children died before they reached eight years old, being killed by a gun would seem like a foolish thing to worry about.

Now that most people fixate on just a few risks, they give each one more weight. You can reduce your disease risk of course, and you can drive carefully, but you have to eat and most people feel they must drive. So for a hoplophobe, that leaves violence as a risk they think they can mitigate. Of course, there risk assessment is wildly inaccurate, but seeing guns banned or restricted feels like they really reduced their overall risk.

Certaindeaf
February 15, 2013, 02:45 PM
If you want to scare someone, perhaps know/learn how to spell "they're". boo!

alfon99
February 15, 2013, 03:01 PM
I've figured out that many anti-gunners are just scared of people that have guns. I understand that many are just power hungry freaks (such as many of the higher level politicians calling for repressive gun control). But many of your everyday people are simply scared. And there's a reason for it....

We've become such a soft society. People no longer kill their own meat, few raise their own crops. The daily reality for everyday Americans is a life of ease. Sure, you have to work, but do you have to break your ass on the farm to make the simple bills? Look around, see all the fat bodies walking out of the many fast food restaurants. Few of our citizens have had to face the in-your-face rigors of war. Many of us know only soft living, far too many.

And that leads to weak minds, weak fortitude. They fear the strong, self-reliant man or woman with a gun. For the most part, my gun owning pals are hard working people who understand life's realities. Many anti-gunner are scared of such armed people. They're projecting. They're scared. And you know what that tells me? We've already won. We're the Alpha dogs; they're the whiny little yappers. Keep your heads up, make yourselves heard and keep moving forward. In the end, we can only come out ahead.
You're right... I drink milk from a cow I milk by myself, I raise my own crops, I hunt my own meat, and I own guns. I totally agree with you.

blaisenguns
February 15, 2013, 03:07 PM
And that leads to weak minds, weak fortitude. They fear the strong, self-reliant man or woman with a gun. For the most part, my gun owning pals are hard working people who understand life's realities. Many anti-gunner are scared of such armed people. They're projecting. They're scared. And you know what that tells me? We've already won. We're the Alpha dogs; they're the whiny little yappers. Keep your heads up, make yourselves heard and keep moving forward. In the end, we can only come out ahead.

I agree with you that our society is soft, and about being "Alpha Dogs" but we have not won anything yet. Just like in the "Walking Dead" we can still be swallowed up by the "hoard" of ignorant people trying to do good.

Old Dog
February 15, 2013, 03:51 PM
Why do you guys keep repeating this drivel?
And that leads to weak minds, weak fortitude. They fear the strong, self-reliant man or woman with a gun.I seriously doubt this. Plenty of strong, self-reliant men and women out there who enjoy much in the way of personal and professional success who do not have guns.

One's ownership of a gun, even with knowledge of its use, no more makes one the "alpha dog" than a wolf's possession of sharp teeth and claws coupled with the ability to kill and chew lesser creatures makes him the pack's alpha male.

J-Bar
February 15, 2013, 04:00 PM
The alpha is not the toughest or meanest, the alpha is the smartest and is protected by the meanest and toughest for the preservation of the pack. Think Don Corleone versus Luca Brazzi.

Certaindeaf
February 15, 2013, 04:17 PM
The alpha is not the toughest or meanest, the alpha is the smartest and is protected by the meanest and toughest for the preservation of the pack. Think Don Corleone versus Luca Brazzi.
Oh you crooner!?

psyopspec
February 15, 2013, 04:34 PM
Occasionally I'll refer an anti-gun friend to this board for the level of discussion it provides. Threads like this make me rethink the wisdom of that move.

Gordon_Freeman
February 15, 2013, 04:45 PM
I think Archangel14 makes some great points. I have to agree with him.

1911Tuner
February 15, 2013, 04:55 PM
I seriously doubt this. Plenty of strong, self-reliant men and women out there who enjoy much in the way of personal and professional success who do not have guns.

Take those same strong, self-reliant people out of their comfort zone...unarmed and broken down on a lonesome highway at O-Dark-30...stir in a couple of characters that could have been stunt doubles in "Deliverance" and that self-assurance would evaporate like a drop of water on a hot stove.

Grunt
February 15, 2013, 05:22 PM
I was dove hunting on our family farm when a "neighbor" who lives roughly 850 yards away called the police about my father and I "firing in the air randomly, like terrorists"... I kid you not.

County LE arrived, and after talking with us and making sure everything was safe and in order, she went to the complainants residence. When the homeowner opened the door for the officer, she said he went pale white. The first thing out of his mouth was asking her to remove her sidearm and leave it in her patrol car because it scared him....



So what's it like having those kind of people as neighbord?:neener: I suppose it was a couple weeks ago, I was out in my frint yard playing with my Enfield musket when my neighbor that just built a house out here drove by. He sees my targets set up so turns around, comes back and we spent about an hour chatting about shooting. Nope, no calls to county about "terrorists shooting randomly into the air" here. :D

JERRY
February 15, 2013, 05:30 PM
some people simply do not have the common sense God gave them (or whom ever hands it out they missed the boat); because of this they are scared of their own shadows.

AlexanderA
February 15, 2013, 05:33 PM
How can someone who is familiar with guns (aka, tools) and be "afraid" of them? That just makes zero logical sense.

That's why I used the word "afraid" in quotes. I just wasn't sure what other word to use to make my point. What I was trying to get at was something a little stronger than "respect." It's undeniable that guns have a certain "intimidation factor." That's exactly why some defensive confrontations can end without a shot being fired. Actually, the "fear" factor can work to the gun owner's advantage, both by making an antagonist "afraid" of the gun, and by making the owner more aware of how he's handling it, and the consequences thereof.

As far as making logical sense, I've found that there are a lot of things in the gun world that are paradoxical (i.e., "illogical") in the extreme.

Shadow 7D
February 15, 2013, 06:12 PM
That's why I used the word "afraid" in quotes. I just wasn't sure what other word to use to make my point. What I was trying to get at was something a little stronger than "respect." It's undeniable that guns have a certain "intimidation factor." That's exactly why some defensive confrontations can end without a shot being fired. Actually, the "fear" factor can work to the gun owner's advantage, both by making an antagonist "afraid" of the gun, and by making the owner more aware of how he's handling it, and the consequences thereof.

As far as making logical sense, I've found that there are a lot of things in the gun world that are paradoxical (i.e., "illogical") in the extreme.
Ask a skydiver if he is scared? (afraid)
when I was learning, this is what I was told

The day you rig and get on the plane
and you realize you are not scared, is the day you need to quit.

The fear keeps you sharp when engaging in a dangerous activity, it doesn't have to be paralyzing, just keep you alive, it's your bodies way of recognizing a RATIONAL danger...

The inverse of this, is : Complacency Kills.

Manco
February 15, 2013, 06:39 PM
Whoa! Has it really come to this?!

Significant elements in government are trying to take away our means of protection from them, bit by bit. No, it's not actually time right now to commit acts of violence, and I hope that we won't ever reach that point, but the right to keep and bear arms (against tyranny) must be preserved.

Unless someone is actually trying to kill you, you're not justified in killing them. Their mere attempt to enact laws to restrict, or even confiscate, guns doesn't rise to that level.

Not yet, but their ultimate goal is to disarm us, and this we cannot allow, much like it was for those who won this country's independence. We're talking about something bigger than self-defense within the law--the potential loss of our liberty due to a tyrannical federal government that passes illegal laws that infringe on the fundamental rights of individuals. We're not anywhere close to this stage yet, and should do everything we can to avoid getting there, but we can still see what they're attempting to do in the long run.

You can outvote them.

We should certainly try.

Besides that, the antigunners, by definition, don't have guns, and therefore, their threats would be indirect at worst.

The Second Amendment was created in part to help protect us against our own federal government, which has by this point obviously become a massive and rapidly expanding bureaucracy that is trying to control every aspect of our lives, more and more each day. That's what governments naturally tend to do over time, and the Founders of this country knew and fully expected this, hence the Second Amendment. They are the direct threat, not fellow citizens who are afraid of guns--those are merely pawns who are, for the most part, unwittingly helping the government gain more power and eventually disarm other citizens like us.

OpelBlitz
February 15, 2013, 07:05 PM
There's no denying, some people are simply scared of firearms. I know of several individuals who fall in this group. They were raised in households with no guns whatsoever. Many of us did grow up in households with guns, so this obviously doesn't apply to many of us.

I was able to convince a few of my old friends who were like this. I especially remember this one woman who was especially "liberal" in her school of thought, but was at least open-minded enough to allow me to show her a few firearms, including an AR-15, in a safe controlled environment. She's always been fascinated with guns, so it was a prime opportunity to show that there's nothing inherently to be afraid of. After a small period of time, she felt far more comfortable around guns and even enjoy them.

Sometimes it's the small victories that make us feel better. :)

Al Thompson
February 15, 2013, 07:22 PM
Say good night folks.

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