1000 Yard Round


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CGRifleman
February 15, 2013, 04:26 PM
Suppose I wanted a precision rifle that could put rounds on paper at 1000 yards using factory match loads. Initially I was looking at a .308, but a 1k shot might be easier with something else. I'm looking for something relatively easy to find (i.e., not .338 LM) and available in common bolt rifles like the Rem 700.
What round would you use?

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pseudonymity
February 15, 2013, 04:31 PM
.243 maybe? It is pretty common, but a bit of a barrel burner. If you reload a 6/6.5mm like .260 Rem might work as well with a bit better barrel life.

c.latrans
February 15, 2013, 04:31 PM
Given the parameters you set forth, I would gravitate toward a .30-06. Tons of 1000 matches have been won with the plain Jane "06" over the decades. Recoil may be a limiting factor for you. If so, consider the .243. Properly hand loaded with todays components, it is a capable round. Good luck!

primalmu
February 15, 2013, 04:38 PM
From what I understand the .308 is superior to the .30-06 even out to 1000 yards. It might not be as flat shooting, but I believe it to be more accurate.

sta500rdr
February 15, 2013, 04:58 PM
I would say 30-06 or 300 Win Mag. Both are easily available on many different platforms. Ammunition is easy to find and both have plenty of power to go the distance. .308 is probably a good choice too, I have just never spent much time with it and I prefer the other two.

I have a 6.5 Grendel that is excellent at 1000 yards. I love that round.

Speedgoat
February 15, 2013, 05:06 PM
From what I understand the .308 is superior to the .30-06 even out to 1000 yards. It might not be as flat shooting, but I believe it to be more accurate.

I'm curious as to how you came to this conclusion? I've been researching up a storm over the last couple weeks getting ready to build a more-custom than not 1,000 yard gun, but still on somewhat of a budget and started off wanting to build a .308, but have decided to go with the tried and true 30-06. There are so many factors that go into Accuracy than you can shake a stick at. The OP made it sound like he'll be using factory ammo, instead of handloads, so that limits his ability to play with loads / bullets to find a 'sweet spot' load for his praticular rifle. .308 match ammo is more available it seems commercially than the 06, that may play factor into the OP's decesion. I'm getting into reloading right now and it's opened up a whole new world to me so to speak.

primalmu
February 15, 2013, 05:21 PM
http://www.snipercentral.com/308.htm

http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/accuracyfacts.asp

If I were trying to build a 1000 yard rifle, I probably wouldn't go with either cartridge, especially if I was planning to reload. Maybe a .338 Lapua?

esheato
February 15, 2013, 05:46 PM
While 308 has a well deserved reputation, there are MUCH better cartridges available in factory and handloader channels.

The sweet spot regarding trajectory, recoil, cost, etc is the 6 and 6.5mm. Preferably 6.5 if you have a choice between the two.

For 1k BR, I've seen everything from 6mm Dasher, 243, 308, 6.5/284 and custom calibers, and the WSMs.

For the tactical crowd, they like the 260 Rem, AIs, 6.5 Creedmoor, etc.

Personally, I've run my 223 Rem and 243 Ackley Improved to 1k and the 338 LM to 2k.

Find something capable but don't obsess. Plenty of other things to obsess about at those ranges.......like the wind.

Good luck.

Derek Zeanah
February 15, 2013, 05:48 PM
If you aren't willing to reload, take a look at 7mm Mag. Should do quite a bit better in wind, and is available.

I went with .260 Rem myself, and that finally got me into reloading.

BrainOnSigs
February 15, 2013, 06:07 PM
I am extremely happy with my GAP Crusader in .260 Rem. I can bang a 20" gong consistently on most days. I also have a Hospitaller in .338 Lapua but love the .260 much more.

chaser_2332
February 15, 2013, 06:09 PM
I am extremely happy with my GAP (Georgia Arms Precision) Crusader in .260 Rem. I can bang a 20" gong consistently on most days.
gap doesnt stand for that, gap is in kansas city.

chaser_2332
February 15, 2013, 06:10 PM
one of the best factory loadings in precision rifle right now is that 6.5 creedmoor, or you could buy ammo from places like Copper Creek Ammo and shoot whatever caliber you want

BrainOnSigs
February 15, 2013, 06:13 PM
Dear God...long week....3 fingers of Bourbon in me. Discussing Canned Heat with a buddy. WOW....need a few days off.

Derek Zeanah
February 15, 2013, 06:14 PM
It's ok. As a Georgian I originally assumed it was GA Precision, as in the state. It still leaks out sometimes. :)

chaser_2332
February 15, 2013, 06:16 PM
doesnt matter what it stands for george and crew builds a hell of a rifle and is a big contributer to the sport.

taliv
February 15, 2013, 06:19 PM
according to their t-shirts it stands for Gnat's Ass
(though who knows what it really stands for)


to the OP, if you are just learning, i would strongly suggest 308win and 175g SMK or equivalent ammo.
if you have a good deal of precision rifle experience to say 600y and just want to shoot farther away, any of the 6.5mm would be a good choice.

243 is a great long range cartridge, but vast majority of factory barrels are too slow twist and factory ammo is light bullets for poking at deer. you will need a 8 twist or faster and 105-115g bullets.

BrainOnSigs
February 15, 2013, 06:20 PM
doesnt matter what it stands for george and crew builds a hell of a rifle and is a big contributer to the sport.
YEP.

http://brainonsigs.smugmug.com/Other/Things-that-go-BANG/i-KsgzZDp/0/O/GAP%20Crusader.jpg

Kachok
February 15, 2013, 06:21 PM
Best factory round for 1,000yd is the 6.5Creedmore it was in fact designed for that purpose. Unfortunately it is still pretty new and not really common yet, though more rifle and ammo makers seem to be jumping on board every time I look. With it's factory 140gr A-Max bullets it will almost duplicate what I can do with my high performance handloads in my 6.5x55, and does so in a short action as does it's 260 Rem counterpart which is almost as good but the rifles often lack the tight twist needed for long heavy bullets. There is in fact some factory match 6.5x55 as well but it is designed for old small ring Mauser pressures and won't quite run with the Creedmore, still a hella good choice though.
For a more common caliber the 243 CAN be a good long range shooter but you really need to reload and have a custom twist barrel to make it any better then the 308 you already have. There are ultra high BC bullets in 6mm but you simply cannot stabilize them in factory 1:9"-1:10" twists. By time you roll your own and rebarrel you have absolutely no advantage over the Creedmore or 6.5x55, and a few glaring disadvantages so this is not my top pick.
7mm Rem Mag is a real charmer at long range, ballistics are great but it is hard on barrels and even harder on the shoulder if you do any volume of shooting with a sporter weight rifle.
300 Win Mag is a monster of a long ranged gun and there is plenty of match ammo out there, but if you though the Big 7 rattled you teeth after a couple boxes you ain't seen nothing until you tried some ultra heavy 300 mag.

BrainOnSigs
February 15, 2013, 06:26 PM
I have actually poked my Cooper Model 22 Phoenix in 6.5x55 Swede out to 1,000 with very decent results for a sub 9 lb hunting rifle.

http://brainonsigs.smugmug.com/Other/Things-that-go-BANG/i-58LtBPt/0/O/Rifles%204.jpg

chaser_2332
February 15, 2013, 06:26 PM
according to their t-shirts it stands for Gnat's Ass
(though who knows what it really stands for)

thats what ive always been told

AABEN
February 15, 2013, 06:28 PM
The .338 Lapua

USSR
February 15, 2013, 06:34 PM
Oh No, not the .308 .vs .30-06 controversy again.:rolleyes: Having shot in 1,000 yard F Class competition for many years, I'll only say that limiting yourself to factory match loads eliminates a lot of good choices as far as cartridges go. First, you would have to eliminate the .30-06, as the last time I checked, Federal Gold Medal Match ammo only came loaded with the 168SMK bullet which is a terrible bullet for 1k shooting. The .308 can be had with the 175SMK bullet in Federal Gold Medal Match, and that will work as long as you don't have a short barrel. The .300WM with the 190SMK bullet in FGM Match would be a good choice, but recoil takes it's toil on you when shooting prone. The 6.5mm cartridges are really where you want to be. I believe both the 6.5-.284 and .260 Remington are available in factory match ammo, and either of these would be your best choice. Personally, I shot a .30-06 where my handloads duplicated the 190SMK .300WM Federal Gold Medal Match load, but in later years I switched to a 6.5x55 with handloads that split the difference between the .260 Rem and 6.5-.284 as far as velocity goes. Summary: If you are going to restrict yourself to factory 1k loads, be prepared to spend a lot of $$$ on ammo and limit yourself as to cartridge choices. Just MHO.

Don

Nwflycaster
February 15, 2013, 07:59 PM
Factory match ammo doesn't necessarily mean it will work for your gun. You will want to learn to reload your own.

I used to shoot factory match ammo in my AR shooting the monthly reduced course matches at my local range. Then I went to shoot a full length match and discovered that my rifle hated the stuff at 300 and 600 yards, heck it was even starting to show up at 200 that something was up. I thought something was loose in my sights or something at first, but on another couple of strings I was given some ammo to try from one of the guard team guys that they use.
Wow, what a difference I went from dropping a ton of points to shooting cleans after some rapid sight changes were made.

I won't touch the stuff anymore other than what I have left and will only use that at 100 yards.
It would shoot 5 shot 1/4" groups at 100 but at 600 was more like 18".

Learn to reload, it will outperform factory match and will pay for itself quickly once this latest round of hysterics settles down.

50 Shooter
February 15, 2013, 08:08 PM
50 BMG, world record is under 3" at 1000 yards.

Many custom builders and there is some factory ammo but handloads is a must, even for smaller calibers.

john wall
February 15, 2013, 09:28 PM
Do as you like, but SPEED is your friend at 1000 yards. A five mile cross wind will push a 308 EIGHT FEET. The same wind will push a 300 Win Mag THREE FEET.

Getting a high BC bullet started at around 3200 fps is an easy way to shoot at long range.

In another life, I used a Browning M-1000 Eclipse BOSS in 300 mag with 36X scope at 1000 yards. It would get a 190 SMK running near 3200 fps. Recoil was on the par of a 20 ga gas auto shotgun. The only negative was noise. That puppy was the Trumpet of the Lord when it went off.

Bridgeport's Big Seven may be a viable cartridge, but magnums are hard on barrels.

I often thought about a 264 Win Mag with 8" twist and 30" barrel, but this cartridge eats barrels.

You simply MUST reload. The steps you can take to make your gun shoot better cannot be done with factory ammo. The brass is the largest variable. Google precision loading and you will start to see.

This is not a cheap sport.

Kachok
February 15, 2013, 10:03 PM
264WMs and 7mmRMs eat barrels too quick, 300s and 338s kick the snot out of you in a sporter weight rifle, 243s require too much custom stuff, 308 are just too dang slow with heavy high BC bullets, they don't make 30-06 with the bullets you need, and 6.5x55/6.5Creedmore/6.5-284 are not for sale at your local walmart. There really is no super easy answer there. I figure the easiest two answers are either go with a 300 and get used to getting bounced around a little, or go with one of the 6.5s you would probably have to order match ammo online for most any caliber anyway. The BEST answer is learn to reload, a very useful and practical skill especially when you want to fine tune accuracy (or when everyone is SOLD OUT like now) and you can turn a regular ol 270 Winchester into a solid performing 1,000yd rifle if you wanted to.

mnhntr
February 16, 2013, 12:46 AM
Take your pick .243 .260 6.5CM 7mm-08 .308

Zak Smith
February 16, 2013, 12:49 AM
It depends how easily you want to be able to find good factory LR target ammo.

The next "best" after .308 if common factory ammo is important is .300 Win Mag.

mljdeckard
February 16, 2013, 12:55 AM
Out to 800 meters, I would say .308. Now, of course it CAN do 1000, but if 1000 was the planned job, I would grab a 300 win mag. A 338 Lapua may well be superior, but....have you seen how much factory ammo costs?

I'm (slowly) building a AR-10 upper in .260 for longer ranges, because I reload, I won't be stuck with factory ammo.

wgaynor
February 16, 2013, 01:07 AM
Ok... I'll say it... 7.62x54R.

:neener:

Edarnold
February 17, 2013, 07:06 PM
Suppose I wanted a precision rifle that could put rounds on paper at 1000 yards using factory match loads. Initially I was looking at a .308, but a 1k shot might be easier with something else. I'm looking for something relatively easy to find (i.e., not .338 LM) and available in common bolt rifles like the Rem 700.
What round would you use?
If you want a factory rifle, the Savage F-Class and Palma target rifles are one of the few choices. Even more important than the cartridge is the barrel length. A cartridge like the .308 Winchester that is marginal out of a 22" barrel picks up 200+fps out of a 30" barrel and becomes more capable at extreme ranges. The owner of my LGS, a rifle Distinguished Master competitor, says that most of the long-range shooters he knows have gone to factory rifles such as the Savages, because you get as much practical performance as a custom that costs twice as much to build.

IMHO

allaroundhunter
February 17, 2013, 07:14 PM
If I were trying to build a 1000 yard rifle, I probably wouldn't go with either cartridge, especially if I was planning to reload. Maybe a .338 Lapua?

Doh....

The .338 Lapua

......

To the OP... A .338 Lapua is not needed...for purely target shooting, anything over .308 is not needed. Yes, a .300 WM will shoot a little flatter, but it will also recoil more and cost more to shoot. To be honest, there is not many factory loads that will do well at 1,000 yards. That distance pretty much requires you to handload. The .308 has the best factory match loads available though, if you are dead set on not hand loading.

I am getting into the long range game, and a friend shoots 155 gr Lapua Scenars at 2,950 FPS in his .308.... He hits 10" plates at 1,000 with more consistency than anyone that I have seen shooting a .300 WM or a .338 Lapua. The reason being, the .308 is plenty, and many people shooting more gun just buy the gun thinking that it will do all the work...

Stick with a .308, one of the 6 or 6.5mm's, or a 7mm/.284 round. No reason to go up any more.

And to whoever suggested .50 BMG. Definitely not necessary, though it is a fun round.... It also is not available for common actions which the OP requested.

Derek Zeanah
February 17, 2013, 07:18 PM
Here is an article (http://www.shootingreviews.com/learning-to-shoot-at-over-1000-yards-with-thunderbeast-arms/) where I took Zak's long-range course. With a .308. In the opening paragraph I talk about the kinds of adjustments for wind you have to make with a .308. If you're shooting 10" targets, that's a lot of room for error.

Adjusting for range is simple: shoot a consistent round, know its BC and velocity, lase the target to get range, and dial it in. If you're still > 10% above the subsonic crossover it's all easy-peasy.

The problem is wind. And some calibers offer better BCs than you can get in a .308. You don't need them at 100 yards. But they sure can help.

Zak Smith
February 17, 2013, 07:25 PM
If you don't need ubiquitously-available factory LR match ammo, go .260 Remington or 6.5 Creedmoor.

xfyrfiter
February 17, 2013, 07:25 PM
A friend and I did some creedmore shooting a long time ago, his favorite was 50/110 and a 42 inch barrel 18 inch bull at 1k was doable with regularity and a lot of fun. Man I can't even see 1k anymore lol. His rifle as I couldn't afford one at the time. Nowadays I think I would go with a Savage 111, or something of the sort in 308 and 1in 10 twist. Good glass is your friend at anything over 500 yd.

RmB
February 17, 2013, 07:28 PM
How about .300 Win mag?
Use a muzzle brake!

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