Workplace gun


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Sisco
March 10, 2004, 06:11 PM
My wife works at a veterinary clinic located on the edge of town. Normally she is there with the Doctor and a couple of other female employees but occasionally she is there alone when Doc is out of town. I've always been concerned about this.

She told me the other day that more than one LEO (one of them the Doc's brother) has told him it would be a good idea to keep a gun around in case of a robbery. In the fifteen years my wife has worked there there have been no robbery attempts, not even a burglary attempt on the building.

Her boss is not adverse to guns, he hunts and owns several rifles and shotguns, NRA member. He mentioned that if he were to make a firearm available it would probably be his Glock in 40 S&W.
Problem is my wife doesn't shoot, tolerates my hobby but has no interest herself. I don't believe any of the other employees are well versed in gun handling either.

The Glock would be a good choice but for the gals maybe a 9mm might be a better option because of the recoil factor.
I was thinking along the lines of a Mossberg 500 Home Security model in .410 gage, again because of the recoil factor. That and a 98 lb redhead pointing a shotgun would have to be somewhat intimidating. :D

Of course, no matter what kind of weapon was available some range time for employees would be mandatory.

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Andrew Rothman
March 10, 2004, 06:19 PM
Problem is my wife doesn't shoot, tolerates my hobby but has no interest herself. I don't believe any of the other employees are well versed in gun handling either.

I'd work on getting her on board with the idea before worrying about which gun.

Sisco
March 10, 2004, 06:25 PM
That's the funny thing about this whole deal, when she told me what her boss had said about keeping one handy, she had no objections to the idea.

Andrew Rothman
March 10, 2004, 06:33 PM
Cool. Then the correct answer is...

"Take her to the gun store, and get her whichever one she likes best."

:)

Ala Dan
March 10, 2004, 07:18 PM
IMHO, I think the good doctor would be better
off to provide a quality revolver, and some
training for all employees. No one in their
right mind wants to shoot anyone; and you may
very well go a lifetime without ever needing a
firearm; but if that one time that you needed it
ever presented its-self, I would want all deck
hands to know how to use it properly!

And its a fact, revolvers are a bit easier
for most people (especially females) to
shoot! So, a good wheel gun attached to a
tutor would be an excellent idea.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

DMK
March 10, 2004, 07:30 PM
I was thinking along the lines of a Mossberg 500 Home Security model in .410 gage, again because of the recoil factor. That and a 98 lb redhead pointing a shotgun would have to be somewhat intimidating. I agree. A 20 guage wouldn't be a bad idea either.

dance varmint
March 10, 2004, 07:38 PM
This scenario is as refreshing as a mountain breeze. They should CCW a suitable handgun of their choice at all times, and keep a suitable shotgun in a back room closet for that addict who comes crashing in at 3 am in search of pills. (anyone see Terminator 3?)

Black92LX
March 10, 2004, 07:48 PM
In the fifteen years my wife has worked there there have been no robbery attempts, not even a burglary attempt on the building.

That's lucky. but unfortunatly i would expect to keep that trend up. Especially if this vet keeps a lot of meds at the facility. may sound funny but my old girlfriend works at a vet and it has happened a few times. yet it has never been when someone is there.

Marshall
March 10, 2004, 07:50 PM
I agree with Ala Dan, a revolver is in order provided, by the doc. Is this for after hours by chance? If so, a quality security system would be in order as well.

sm
March 10, 2004, 08:01 PM
Before we had a bunch of folks that didn't grow up knowing how to shoot,and all the PC crap...

What I did was buy six model 10 revolvers, three 870 12 ga pumps and two Model 94's in 30-30. I placed these throughout the "business".

I had a store meeting scheduled often. Cases of ammo provided and we had a lot of "input and participation".

I was in a position of authority and was asked to prep and follow through on security matters. Everybody liked my "store meetings". :p

Not the first or last place of business I did this. Now from here we had folks whom later decided to CCW and chose their own guns [ those that were not already that is].

Never had a problem at the business aforementioned ...of course we had folks like me carrying 1911s as well other guns. We never really worried about the employees coming in early or staying late--weekends, and I think the word getting out about the "store meetings" probably didn't hurt either.

It was we always did. Employees liked the "bonuses" I gave out as well. :D

LW Colt Commander will get you hugs, fried pies and favorite status real quick with a 55 yr old lady - bookeeper of all things. :)

Never questioned my spending, always had a way of finding enough money for "misc" - had a hell of a "petty cash" fund. Pays to take care of the bookeeper...:)

GigaBuist
March 10, 2004, 09:19 PM
That and a 98 lb redhead pointing a shotgun would have to be somewhat intimidating.

If it's pointing at me it's intimidating -- otherwise I, like many THR members, would consider it just damned sexy!

Joking aside, a Glock in .40 cal is a horrible choice. I have one -- I LOVE it, it's a great gun but it's not something you hand a non-gunner and expect them to shoot well.

I'm not sure I'm too keen on the revolver idea either for the same reasons I don't like the Glock idea: Trigger pull.

People are going to flex their whole hand when they shoot a DA or semi-DA pistol. It's natural (thanks to the media and such) to expect a gun to go off as soon as you hit the trigger. The idea of 'trigger control' was not in my vocabulary before I began shooting.

I've seen non-shooters do quite well with my SA CZ-75B and horrid with either of my Glocks. The trigger just sucks.

My advice? Shotguns. They come in all makes and models and are, honestly, much easier to keep pointed in a safe direction. They're less evil feeling to most people that are non-shooters too. Plus, the spread on buck shot at any range coming out of a 20 gauge barrel is better than what you get with a .40 cal pistol. Less work to repair the damage done to holes in the wall too after the BG has been done away with.

Besides, pump action Mossberg 500's, Remmington 870's and Saigas are cheap. I bought a Saiga in .410 this weekend for $200 NIB. While the trigger on the Saiga isn't anything great it's much easier than a Glock trigger on a pistol with a 4" barrel.

Just my two cents. My old man (father) got my mom handy with a 20 gauge shotgun upon marriage and she weighed less than 110 lbs at the time. Well, that's her story :)

Sisco
March 10, 2004, 09:29 PM
Is there factory 00 buck for .410?

GigaBuist
March 10, 2004, 09:29 PM
Vet's carry ketamine (a drug) if I'm not mistaken. I'd imagine a fair number of people that are scheming for such stuff know that and it's probably prudent to keep your workers aware of that and armed. "Special K" is a disassociative drug, which means that it has a tendency to seperate the mind from the body. Basically, you feel NOTHING when on such things. PCP aka Angel dust fits into the same category. On the legal level dextromethorphan hydrobromine (cough syrup) is in the same category.

People on things like that are from a different dimension. Pain is gone. Absolutely gone. OC spray, billy clubs, 300 pound boxers, etc.... probably won't phase them.

While I don't condone doing anything illegal, if people around the office think OC would work I'd find an individual that will willingly take a hit of OC sober... then have the person "dose up" on Ketamine (that'd be illegal)... then take the OC. It'd probably be like hitting them with Windex.

scromp
March 10, 2004, 09:35 PM
My friend (and vet) owns a veterinary clinic here in kentucky, and there has been a rash of burglaries recently. He's had two or three in the past year himself, though all were at night. The goblins have figured out that they're easy targets that have stockpiles of drugs, so it's only a matter of time. I agree that if firearms are going to be employed in defense of the business the owner needs to provide equipment and training; no different from any other business involving that kind of security.

El Tejon
March 10, 2004, 09:40 PM
I had a guy that ran through a window of a burger joint while he allegedly resisted law enforcement (fleeing) on Special K. Did not feel a thing and all the blood made him hard to hold onto and the added fear of bloodborne pathogens for the coppers did not make him an "ordinary case" for the prosecution.

He didn't feel a thing. "It was like watching your life as a movie.":uhoh:

Josey
March 10, 2004, 09:56 PM
THREE PROBLEMS!! First off, is the vet going to cover every employee with liability insurance? I don't think so. Second, is the vet going to provide training AND pay for said training? Third, is the vet going to pay for the employees CCW training and associated fees? I doubt it. I would see a lawyer or a career center as I considered a new line of work. Realistically, your wife has value to you. She is just an employee of the vet. This doesn't sound good in the long run. That vet is NOT going to bet his house on your wife.

Crom
March 10, 2004, 10:20 PM
Since you said you do not believe the females are well versed in gun handling I would recommend:

A wheelgun, the essence of simplicity and reliablity.

My wife would be my primary concern, the other employees secondary.

Many years ago I used to reside near Ft. Ord CA, then home of the 7th Infantry Division. Most of the guys there had a 12 gauge and a wheelgun at home for the wife, and guns is what they did.

I would teach her with a .38 special loaded with +Ps

Make sure it fits her hand and points well.

And remember, it doesn't matter what anyone says, it's her gun not theirs.

Just my .02 cents.

seeker_two
March 10, 2004, 10:43 PM
.38SPL revolvers in easy reach--if not on one's person....

...and double-barrel, hammerless "coach guns" in 20ga. for long guns.

The coach guns are easier to teach to beginners, easier to maneuver in indoor office space, and eliminate problems like magazine set and short-stroking. Plus 20ga provides a lot of punch for a lot less recoil.

JY2CW....

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