Small 22 Handgun for Child (teaching)


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Trent
February 15, 2013, 11:12 PM
THANK YOU FOR ALL WHO OFFERED ADVICE - FIREARM HAS BEEN CHOSEN AND PURCHASED


My daughter is 9, and she's smart, and mature, but very small stature. I want to start teaching her how to shoot but she (and her hands) are still tiny. She's smaller than her younger sister, who is 6... and by a fair margin she the smallest child in her grade. (Every other kid in her grade is at least a foot taller). She's not a midget or anything, just very, very petite.

She's been going along with me to the shooting range in fair weather every time, for about 6 months now, helping me put up targets, police up brass, etc. (I don't push it on her, SHE asks ME if she can come along when she sees me packing my range bag).

We went over handguns in great detail tonight (older kids all gathered around - of their own accord - and got a refresher course). To my infinite dismay, I found I have no handguns that will fit her tiny hands. My 22 target gun is a Ruger Mk 3 target model, and has very large, fitted grips. Any centerfire is out of the question because of her small stature.

So I have an excuse to go gun shopping again.

Oh my, the agony. :D :D :D :D

Now, I'm not really in to shooting 22's, so don't really know what my options are here, and I've never done much research in to smaller handguns.

In the interests of saving time and tapping in on the combined, infinite experience of THR, please educate me and offer some advice.

Thank you, in advance!

(EDIT: To give an idea of how small her hands are, and to use a reference gun that many would have, on my M&P 9, Glock, or PT92, her index finger is 3/4" away from the back of the trigger - she can't even TOUCH the trigger. So when I say I need a small gun, I mean, I need a really small gun.)

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Fryerpower
February 15, 2013, 11:16 PM
I can't help on a handgun, but what about a cricket rifle? Wait a minute, what about a derringer type pistol?

Jim

HankR
February 15, 2013, 11:19 PM
A Ruger Bearcat is a good size for that age. My 7 year old daughter is not petite, and she likes the Ruger SP-101, but i'm going to try her on the Bearcat when the snow melts. I think the smaller grips will be better. She only shoots the SP in single action anyway.

I find that the single action is good so long as I'm loading it (this from using a Single Six with my older son when he was 8 or 9). I don't really like the idea of a real young kid loading the single action, it seem too easy to not pay attention to muzzle control. With the DA revolver I hold the revolver and she loads the swing out cylinder. I close it and hand it back to her, always pointed downrange. I'm not sure what we'll do w/ the Bearcat, but she does love to load it herself. I'll probably hold it and index the cylinder and let her eject and put in the new one.

The Bearcat is probably more expensive than some other options, and she will outgrow it, but....

Deltaboy
February 15, 2013, 11:30 PM
H&R made some small ones over the years.

rcmodel
February 15, 2013, 11:33 PM
The Ruger Bearcat is The Only Solution.

http://www.ruger.com/products/newBearcat/models.html

First, it is the right size & weight for kids.

Second it is a single-action that must be thumb cocked every shot, before it can load & cock itself and go off accidentally to shoot you, or somebody else.

Third, it will handle all kinds of .22 ammo, including CB caps for low noise, no recoil training.

Forth, they will still love it when they are older then you!

Fifth, they will always think of you, every time they pick it up, even after your are pushing up Daisy's somewhere.

Whats not to like about all that?

rc

tacxted
February 15, 2013, 11:36 PM
bearcat. nailed it.

Trent
February 15, 2013, 11:44 PM
Oh wow. Perfect! Thanks a lot guys!!!!

But .. wow. $$$$.

Those cost 2x as much as some of my centerfire autoloaders. :)

Sigh. The things we do for our children.....

Tomcat47
February 16, 2013, 12:01 AM
Bearcat ... Ditto! And it will last her a lifetime! :)

Then many years ahead you might teach your granddaughter how to shoot mommas Bearcat!

murf
February 16, 2013, 01:45 AM
try to find a used one. you may get lucky and find one.

bearcat is the only way to go for your daughter.

luck,

murf

Sam1911
February 16, 2013, 02:34 AM
Hey, what about a Ruger Bearcat? ;)

Yeah, they're dead-on perfect. Just have to work a little harder on the sight picture as those traditional fixed sights are small.

danimoth17
February 16, 2013, 03:31 AM
Alternate option to the ruger would be a Heritage Manufacturing Rough Rider. they are also a scaled down version of the colt saa and can be had brand new for $150. And theres an option for a combo 22lr with 22mag cyl runs about $100 more.

I havent used them so i am not sure on the quality but have seen them in my local stores.

Radagast
February 16, 2013, 03:40 AM
Rough Rider is similar in size to a Ruger Single Six, which is probably the best starting gun for the 12 year old to 92 year old bracket. Basically give one to someone entering their teen years and they can pass it on when they die of old age.
For a petite 9 year old? Ruger Bearcat. Has anyone mentioned that yet? :P

StrawHat
February 16, 2013, 05:48 AM
S&W makes (or made) a J frame 22. Not perhaps a target grade revolver but mine, with a 4" barrel is certainly accurate enough for small game.

BullRunBear
February 16, 2013, 06:35 AM
For handguns I can only think of the Ruger Bearcat, as everyone suggested, or a North American Arms minigun. I'm not aware of any other revolvers small enough for your daughter's hand.

As mentioned, check out a Cricket single shot rifle. If she can reach the trigger with the length of pull, it is probably the ideal teaching tool. If it matters, I think they are available in pink. :D

Let us know what you find.

Jeff

usp9
February 16, 2013, 08:06 AM
The Beretta NEOS has a very narrow, kid friendly grip. It comes in different barrel lengths too, so the weight can be varied depending on how heavy you desire the gun.

Trent
February 16, 2013, 09:40 AM
Hey, what about a Ruger Bearcat? ;)


Oh Sam, you so funny.

(For those who don't get it, Sam is joking. He's alluding to my 120+ page 44 magnum thread where people kept answering the original post I made, asking what I should look for, for days after I had already decided what to buy, bought the gun, and even posted pictures of said gun in that thread.)

:)

jad0110
February 16, 2013, 09:54 AM
If it must be a handgun, a Bearcat is probably the best bet. However, for a child's first gun I STRONGLY recommend a single shot youth rifle (the aforementioned Cricket, or the Chipmunk). These guns only weight about 2 to 2 1/2 pounds. My 6 year old son has one he practices handling, 3 of the 4 rules, disassembly and reassembly with no problems (he'll learn to shoot it when he is a little older). It is much easier to teach muzzle discipline with a small rifle, and and it is much more difficult for them to accidentally point the muzzle at themselves. And you have something a little longer and easier to grasp if they do forget and sweep the muzzle around.

These guns sell for between $115 and $200, depending on stock material, barrel finish, etc. So you can always start her on a single shot .22, then move up to the Bearcat in a couple of years.

OptimusPrime
February 16, 2013, 09:55 AM
FWIW, my 13 year old daughter hates the Bearcat. HATES it. She's small too but that tiny little piece just frustrates her. She also hates the LCP and all of it's tininess. For her, the P64 was what she likes and can handle, despite how ugly and stupid and, well, how communist it is.
All that being said, the most important thing remains to put the different guns into her own hands and let her pick.

Sam1911
February 16, 2013, 10:01 AM
Ironically, my daughter's two favorite handguns are the Bearcat and the 629, so there's something perhaps a bit false in the idea that the size of the gun is crucial to a kid.

My biggest gripe with the Bearcat is still the sights. They are the very traditional half-round front and topstrap notch rear. They take a bit of concentration for an adult to use, and certainly are a bit more work to teach a youngster on than a nice sight setup that we're all more used to.

Having said that, the size is GREAT.

Bearcat:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=179809&stc=1&d=1361027218

629:
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=179810&stc=1&d=1361027218

At the time she was seven, so probably about the same size as your gal.

dmurdach
February 16, 2013, 10:07 AM
I would agree with the bearcat as well as one of the North american arms mini revolvers, with the NAA you have a pretty good choice of aftermarket grips to make it fit her hands.

tarosean
February 16, 2013, 10:09 AM
Beretta Jetfire is pretty small. No clue if its accurate enough to teach with thou

Sam1911
February 16, 2013, 10:10 AM
I gotta say, those NAA mini revolvers are tiny. I'm not sure there's a benefit in giving her something so incredibly diminutive to try to learn to shoot with. Sights? Sight radius? Not so good.

Sometimes smaller is better, but I think the NAAs get so far down into the realm of minuscule that they would cause her more frustration than benefit.

michaelbsc
February 16, 2013, 10:13 AM
Sigh. The things we do for our children.....

But after everything else is said and done, what do you come back to, except maybe your dog and wife. They're family too.

The difference is that when we cleave from this plane the dog and wife are headed our direction more or less. The kids are going to the ones to carry on.

Trent
February 16, 2013, 10:13 AM
The bearcat has a 4.5" barrel and is 9" overall, looks like the sight base is what, about 6" or 6.5"? If the barrel and ammo is good, that little gun should put together pretty tight groups.

Anyone own a bearcat and want to comment on accuracy?

OptimusPrime
February 16, 2013, 10:16 AM
Oops, I'm an idiot. Please delete post 18. I was hearing Bobcat, the Beretta model. Beretta Bobcat is the one my daughter hates. I'm glad Sam put those pictures up!
My apologies.

Sam1911
February 16, 2013, 10:16 AM
We do (obviously). The accuracy seems ok, though honestly I've never shot it for groups. The real concern, as I mentioned, is the sights. If you are very careful, you can shoot it accurately. But a set of Novaks it ain't. :-]

The Single-Sixes have great sights, but they're a (slightly) larger gun. Might be perfectly workable, though.

What about taking her along to a local gun shop and comparing the two? See if she can reach the trigger on the SS.

Trent
February 16, 2013, 10:36 AM
Heh she probably couldn't even see over the counter. THAT would be a sight!

She only stands 4'1" tall! (at 9 years old)

michaelbsc
February 16, 2013, 10:43 AM
Oops, I'm an idiot. Please delete post 18. I was hearing Bobcat, the Beretta model. Beretta Bobcat is the one my daughter hates. I'm glad Sam put those pictures up!
My apologies.

I have a Baretta Bobcat, and I have small hands. And I love the little gun. But it's probably not a great starter piece for a child. The sight radius is way to short for serious range use.

It is, however, a superb little deep conceal mouse gun.

mesinge2
February 16, 2013, 10:54 AM
I'd suggest a pistol personally; Browning 1911-22. Its a reduced size 1911 made for the .22lr

Here is it compared to a SIG 1911-22:

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc401/mesinge2/Misc/22LR1911SIGSauervBrowning1911-221jpg.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc401/mesinge2/Misc/22LR1911SIGSauervBrowning1911-222jpg.jpg
http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc401/mesinge2/Misc/22LR1911SIGSauervBrowning1911-223jpg.jpghttp://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc401/mesinge2/Misc/22LR1911SIGSauervBrowning1911-224jpg.jpg

C0untZer0
February 16, 2013, 11:25 AM
I went through the same thing with my middel daughter, she is smaller and more petite than her younger sister.

All of our shooting is from bench rest right now anyway, so I got her the S&W Model 63. It is too heavy for her to do off hand shooting, but the Bearcat is only 2 ounces lighter.

rcmodel
February 16, 2013, 11:27 AM
I would never recommend an auto-loader for a 9 year old child to learn with.

I was a Kansas Hunter Safety Instructor for years.

And I'm here to tell you an kid that age can fire a shot, get excited, and jump up and come down with the gun pointed a whole nother direction before you can blink!

You do not want an autoloader just an excited finger twitch away from shooting something else besides the target while teaching any kid to shoot.

rc

mesinge2
February 16, 2013, 12:40 PM
You just don't load it to capacity. I was taught on a 1911 pistol (9mm Commander) by my father and he would load one or two and when I was more proficient I moved on with more rounds. I recommended the pistol due to the safety, a child learning will make the mistake of grabbing the trigger when lifting the gun. A 1911 has a manual safety. If the hammer of the bearcat is cocked by the parent as it might be due to hand strength issues of a child (I have personally witnessed this) then all you have is a light single action trigger ready to go.

I would never recommend an auto-loader for a 9 year old child to learn with.

I was a Kansas Hunter Safety Instructor for years.

And I'm here to tell you an kid that age can fire a shot, get excited, and jump up and come down with the gun pointed a whole nother direction before you can blink!

You do not want an autoloader just an excited finger twitch away from shooting something else besides the target while teaching any kid to shoot.

rc

C0untZer0
February 16, 2013, 01:01 PM
My 10 year old daugter can barely cock the Model 63 and she doesn't have enough strength in her finger to pull the DA trigger.

I thought about getting her something like the Cricket, it's a bolt action handgun.

There are a lot of good choiches here.

When I actually talked to my daughter, the very most important thing to her was that it have pink grips.

mesinge2
February 16, 2013, 01:04 PM
My 10 year old daugter can barely cock the Model 63 and she doesn't have enough strength in her finger to pull the DA trigger.


This is why I think a SA revolver is not the greatest choice. Cocking a hammer on a single action and then handing it to a child, who may grab the gun and trigger in one move. All it takes is one: http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc401/mesinge2/Emoticons/oops.gif

Sam1911
February 16, 2013, 01:18 PM
This is why I think a SA revolver is not the greatest choice. Cocking a hammer on a single action and then handing it to a child, who may grab the gun and trigger in one move. OMG. That is not at all the right way to teach a child to shoot a handgun.

You need to be hovering close. Hands almost on the gun. Hand the child the gun, hammer down. Help them to obtain a good grip and positive, weight-forward stance. Help them align the sights -- talk them through what they need to be seeing. Reiterate the "finger off the trigger" requirement several times. THEN, with your hands on theirs, cock the weapon and retract your hands to just our of their way, but so you can be instantly on the gun if they start to get nervous or excited and momentarily forget safety.

Handing a child a cocked weapon of any sort would be a recipe for disaster.

Heck, I've taught ADULTS this same way. "Let's do each step here right, the FIRST time, and you won't have to un-learn bad habits later..."

Further -- if you are ever more than one second away from having hands on that gun, you are putting that child in a position of responsibility they should not be forced to carry. It isn't fair to them or safe for others.

mesinge2
February 16, 2013, 01:22 PM
I am not saying that I would hand a child a gun in this manner. Just that I have seen it done at the range. I was simply pointing out that an autoloader with a manual safety may add an additional measure of protection against a ND.

Sam1911
February 16, 2013, 01:27 PM
Well, that is true. But an un-cocked SA revolver is certainly another step safer than that, and has the benefit of being able to be loaded and ready for five subsequent shots without creating an unsafe situation.

strange246
February 16, 2013, 02:45 PM
Heritage Rough Rider, 3.5" barrel with birdshead grips, I got my son who's 7 one for Christmas, he doesnt have large hands by any means and can handle it fine, absolutely loves it too, I dont care for the safety for appearance sake, but for teaching him its a nice feature, I paid $150 for it and it came with the .22mag cylinder also. More fun and more accurate than $150 has any right to be LOL

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o18/strange246/2012-12-24_23-31-43_839_zps103ea562.jpg

C0untZer0
February 16, 2013, 02:47 PM
I don't hand off a loaded firearm period. The NSSF has a good video on this:

http://www.nssf.org/ranges/rangeresources/video.cfm

She sits down to an unloaded revolver, pointing down range, with the cylinder out. She is able to load it, and my primary focus when she is doing that is making sure her finger stays out of the trigger gaurd and the firearm stays pointed down range.

She is able to cock the hammer.

She has already experienced an unintentional discharge, she put her finger on the trigger before getting the sights lined up. The bullet missed the target and it was a lesson on rules 2 and 3.

I am always close enough to immediately grab the firearm.

481
February 16, 2013, 03:06 PM
Got a little one comin' up to the point of shooting and his first shots through a handgun will be through a .22LR S&W 317.

It's small enough for his hands, light enough at 11 oz., that he won't tire holding it for a while and can be loaded singly with lower powered stuff like .22 Shorts 'til he's ready to progress to the next step.

BCRider
February 16, 2013, 03:21 PM
Is it too late to suggest a Bearcat? :D

Another option that is similar to the 317 mentioned above would be the classic old S&W 34 J frame "kit gun" with the longer 4 inch barrel and with the smallish magna grips. If this is still a little large then a scabby looking set of "junk" magna grips could easily be sanded down a little to make the gun fit your girl just fine. Of course this same option of sanding down some grips applies to the J frame of the 317.

The reach to the double action trigger would likely be a stretch until she grows a little more but in single action the trigger moves back very close to the rear of the guard. Just right for a small reach.

And there are heaps of J frame grips out there to fit any size of hands as she grows so it's not just a Jr size gun.

jon_in_wv
February 16, 2013, 03:40 PM
My daughter has fired my Sig Trailside and she really liked it. The recoil, trigger reach, trigger pull, and all were very manageable for her.

Backpacker33
February 16, 2013, 03:41 PM
Second; Third; Fourth; Whatever, thumbs up for the Bearcat. I started each of our three boys on Bearcats and the Ruger Single Six, at age 5. At age 10 I got each a Ruger 10/22. They've all moved on to bigger boomers, but all still consider those early ones as "theirs."

Backpacker33
February 16, 2013, 04:19 PM
Second; Third; Fourth; Whatever, thumbs up for the Bearcat. I started each of our three boys on Bearcats and the Ruger Single Six, at age 5. At age 10 I got each a Ruger 10/22. They've all moved on to bigger boomers, but all still consider those early ones as "theirs."

Backpacker33
February 16, 2013, 04:35 PM
I don't seem able to shoot the Single 10 as accurately as the Single 6's. I think it is because of the fiber optic front sight.
The two Single-Six's and the Bearcats are just delights.
I have the .22 Magnum cylinders for the Single 6's, but hardly ever use them.
179830

Backpacker33
February 16, 2013, 04:42 PM
I just love all three of these. I can't shoot them as accurately as the Rugers, probably because of the hog trough rear sight on the Peacemaker Buntline and Colt Single Action Frontier Scout .22 Magnum, but that classic Colt four clicks and the feel in the hand makes them jewels.
The New Frontier is also classic Colt. I don't shoot it as accurately as the Ruger Single 6's, either. Don't know why. But, just LOOK at that coloring!
179833

179834

Backpacker33
February 16, 2013, 04:47 PM
A small hand can easily operate this S&W 650 single-action. I'm not a fan of the .22 Mag cartridge in it, just the 22LR.
179835

C0untZer0
February 16, 2013, 05:19 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=179840&stc=1&d=1361053149

Trent
February 16, 2013, 05:20 PM
Well, as it happens my buddy called me this morning, and there just happened to be a gun show over in Bloomington (IL), at which exactly one dealer, just happened to have one Super Bearcat, and it just happened to be at a decent price of $449.

http://i.imgur.com/UBLY6Iyl.jpg

So, when the Government decides next Wednesday that I'm a trustworthy dude that can own such a powerful and dangerous gun as the diminutive 22 single action revolver, I can go drive an hour and a half back to the dealer I bought it off of, to pick it up.

Trent
February 16, 2013, 05:22 PM
As a side note, EVERY firearm at EVERY table had a zip tied trigger, due to the double-shooting incident a couple years back.

On the flip side, there were no shortage of AR-15's at that particular gun show, but I wasn't in the market. (It is open tomorrow again if any are left, they were selling quickly at prices between $1200 and 1700, with complete uppers selling for $620 to about 800.)

http://i.imgur.com/CI8Mg3pl.jpg

SHR970
February 16, 2013, 05:37 PM
Just to be different and accommodating to a young shooter: North American Arms Mini Master

Linky (http://northamericanarms.com/firearms/minis/mm-1/mmt-l.html)

bandur60
February 16, 2013, 06:21 PM
Just a side note, a couple of years ago a 15/16-yr old won our state 4H tournament with a Bearcat, shooting bullseye and timed/rapid fire (5 shots in 20/10 seconds). All shots on target shooting against the semi-autos, I thought that was some fair single-action work. 'Course he knew his gun....

BCRider
February 16, 2013, 07:35 PM
A couple of you have mentioned NAA as an option.

Size wise I tend to agree. But the pull needed to release the hammer on the NAA spur triggers verges on the silly side of heavy.

Before you all leap down my throat I have an NAA Earl which I love dearly and that I've used to shoot surprisingly good groups at 15 yards. So I'm not diss'ing the NAA option. Just suggesting that for kids with small hands and less than full adult like gripping power the heavy spur trigger isn't the best option.

Trent, I'm sure that you and her will have a great time with the Bearcat. Make sure to take her with you and buy ice cream on the way.... :D

Trent
February 16, 2013, 08:34 PM
Just for a reference of her size, here she is riding.

http://i.imgur.com/gqDqHIrl.jpg

Trent
February 16, 2013, 08:43 PM
And she's definitely an outdoorsy type:

http://i.imgur.com/5n4q1RNl.jpg

She goes shooting, fishing, riding, hiking, and everything else "outdoors".

She even helps me clean the fish. :)

http://i.imgur.com/Iz4NcwHl.jpg

JERRY
February 16, 2013, 08:57 PM
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff256/JerryS357/100_5715.jpg

the P22 has been pretty good for my daughter.....shes had it for two years now and loves it.

BCRider
February 17, 2013, 01:21 PM
It's sure nice to see a kid these days that doesn't have a game controller or cell phone glued to their hands. Keep up the good work!

I'm sure that she'll likely go through the cell phone/texting phase at SOME point in her teens. But with a start like this hopefully she'll grow past it and re-join the real world sooner than some.

Southernsorrow
February 17, 2013, 02:41 PM
Small .22 "revolvers".

Ruger LCR aren't too hard on the wallet at about $350~ unless you opt for the factory crimson trace grips pre-installed then add $200

CharterArms pathfinder "the older model with the wooden or the older rubber grips" are real small/petite. But the newest production models are about 8ozs heavier and have a 2x larger grip and frame. I have an older charter laying around somwhere it's pretty tiny I can only get like 2-1/2 maybe 3 fingers on the grip

murf
February 17, 2013, 06:41 PM
paint the rear sight white (auto touch-up paint at walmart).

think about recrowning the muzzle (mine was really bad).

i like countzeros suggestion about removing the cylinder and dry-firing (put the base pin back in the gun, first). dry-firing with the cylinder in the gun may damage the cylinder (unless you use fired cases to cushion the firing pin, snapcaps, etc.).

murf

bannockburn
February 17, 2013, 07:13 PM
Way back when I started my 9 year old son out with my Beretta Model 70S. An all steel medium frame semi-auto in .22LR, it's incredibly reliable, has easy to see front and rear sights, and a very clean SA trigger. He did so well with it I eventually let him pick out his own .22 (so I could keep my Beretta), and he opted for a Walther P22.

PzGren
February 18, 2013, 03:17 AM
Don't laugh but the only gun that fit my son's hands when I decided to start them out were some little .22 l.r. Roehm revolvers. That was good enough until they were about 7 or 8 years old and started to appreciate my S&W K-22 with reduced size grips that I had made for them.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/preM-17.jpg

That was about 15 years ago. Needless to say, that both my sons are avid shooters and reloaders now, have their carry and hunting permits and love to go shooting in the Glades!

aarondhgraham
February 18, 2013, 03:31 PM
J-frame S&W's or a Charter Arms Target Pathfinder,,,
Both are quality guns and fit small hands.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=85053&d=1354113216

As you can see the CA Pathfinder (left) is almost identical to the S&W Model 34 (right),,,
The biggest difference is that the Pathfinder has a full lug barrel.

Well, that's not entirely true,,,
The biggest difference is the price,,,
I paid exactly $338.00 + tax for the new Pathfinder,,,
Try finding a S&W Model 34, 43, or 63 for less that $500.00.

I was recently offered $650.00 for the Nickel 34,,,
I turned down $750.00 for my Model 63.

But the real question is,,,
How does it shoot.

Just as well as any of my S&W's,,,
The trigger and everything on the gun is still new and tight,,,
But I have put a 550 round bulk pack through it and it's getting nicer each range trip.

Nice gun,,,
American company,,,
True life-time warranty.

Aarond

.

PzGren
February 19, 2013, 12:33 AM
Aaron,

another problem with handguns for very young children is weight and pulling the trigger back.

My sons had advanced to a S&W 22A and for years, they had a hard time to grab the slippery slide and pull it back. Skateboard tape helped somewhat.

It is probably the best to let a child try to shoot a gun before choosing it and change every few years.

lono
February 19, 2013, 12:42 AM
My daughter is 7 and does very well with her Walther P22.

Rembrandt
February 19, 2013, 08:45 PM
Twin 10 year old grand daughters love the fit of the Browning 1911-22....fit's their hands perfectly.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v405/Rembrandt51/Firearms/015.jpg

2 Wild Dueces
February 19, 2013, 10:54 PM
I've got a couple of grandsons.....and own a single six and a super bearcat. The bearcat really fits their small hands....BUT....I wish it was as easy to cock the hammer as the single six. Takes allot of instruction to keep the muzzle in a safe direction when they cock that hammer.

Trent
February 20, 2013, 12:06 AM
So the Illinois Government should finally trust me enough tomorrow, to pick up that little bearcat.

Man I'm so happy The Powers That Be look after my well being like this. I mean.. think of the sheer awesome power of that gun!

:banghead:

:fire:

:cuss:

Just in time for .. snow. :(

mcadphd
February 20, 2013, 11:20 PM
I have been teaching my daughter's to shoot for the past couple of years. I purchased a Walther P22 and it has been one of the best guns I have purchased. I really enjoy shooting it. My daughter's just turned 13 and 17, my 17 love shooting my 40 cal also. I added a new AR15 to the collection and she is in love with that one too. Have you made a gun purchase yet?

Trent
February 21, 2013, 12:22 AM
Didn't pick it up today, and now it looks like it's going to wait until next week.

Big snowstorm coming in, spent the day getting my snowblower fixed, food in the cabinets, etc.

:(

Oh well, it's not like we'll be able to go shoot the thing right now, anyway.

rvanpelt
February 21, 2013, 12:14 PM
You're going to love the Bearcat. My 2 grandsons started with the little cricket rifle , then went to the revolver.
Rod van Pelt

MCgunner
February 21, 2013, 09:08 PM
I would prefer a revolver for a newb, but most J frame .22s have a DA trigger only a gorilla could love and hammer cock effort can be a might much, too, for a small kid.

This is great for small hands, has two grips one can try that come with it. It's decently accurate and functions with most any .22 ammo.

http://i44.tinypic.com/xt07o.jpg
Ruger SR22

MCgunner
February 21, 2013, 09:11 PM
Oh, the Bearcat could be your answer, too. :D Cool little revolvers. I've always thought I'd like one, but never bought one. Hope the weather lets you have some fun, soon. You could bring it down here and we could shoot it on my range. It was 75 degrees today. :neener:

Trent
February 21, 2013, 09:47 PM
Oh, the Bearcat could be your answer, too. :D Cool little revolvers. I've always thought I'd like one, but never bought one. Hope the weather lets you have some fun, soon. You could bring it down here and we could shoot it on my range. It was 75 degrees today. :neener:

With all due respect, sir, you can kiss my Yankee ass. We're having Thundersnows. :)

* TIMING...SNOW IS EXPECTED TO SPREAD INTO AREAS SOUTH OF I-74 BY
4 PM...AND IN AREAS NORTH OF I-74 AFTER 4 PM. SOME SLEET MAY MIX
IN AT TIMES IN THE FIRST COUPLE OF HOURS OF PRECIPITATION. THE
HEAVIEST PRECIPITATION IS EXPECTED BETWEEN 5 PM AND MIDNIGHT.
AFTER MIDNIGHT...THE SNOW MAY MIX WITH OR CHANGE TO FREEZING
DRIZZLE.

* ACCUMULATIONS...4 TO 6 INCHES OF SNOW ARE LIKELY...WITH THE
HIGHER TOTALS WEST OF THE ILLINOIS RIVER. ANY OF THESE
PRECIPITATION TOTALS MAY BE LOCALLY HIGHER DUE TO ISOLATED
THUNDERSTORMS EMBEDDED WITHIN THIS STORM THIS AFTERNOON.

* WIND...EAST WINDS OF 15 AND 20 MPH WILL GUST TO NEAR 30 MPH AT
TIMES. THIS WILL CREATE AREAS OF BLOWING AND DRIFTING SNOW.

* IMPACTS...CONDITIONS WILL DETERIORATE RAPIDLY ONCE THE SNOW
BEGINS. TRAVEL WILL BECOME HAZARDOUS DUE TO POOR VISIBILITY
AND ROADS BECOMING QUICKLY SNOW COVERED AND ICY. THE POTENTIAL
FOR SOME FREEZING DRIZZLE LATE TONIGHT WILL ONLY MAKE DRIVING
CONDITIONS EVEN MORE HAZARDOUS.

BCRider
February 21, 2013, 10:52 PM
Big snowstorm coming in, spent the day getting my snowblower fixed, food in the cabinets, etc.....

Apparently your snowblower didn't do the trick like mine. I found a nice electric start model on sale and bought it for this year's snowfall. Apparently buying the darn thing has ensured that we won't get any snow at all. Back for one day in January we got about 2 inches and I had to run out and buy gas for it just to try it out. It hasn't got cold enough to snow since then. Just rain.

Oh well, at least I don't have to shovel the rain.



.... I'm not helping any am I.... :D

Trent
February 21, 2013, 11:37 PM
Oh, no, it did the trick just fine. I bought this monster with a 14" auger, self propelled 8 speed, electric start as the last display model in the store off the sales floor at the local Sears, the day before we had Snowmageddon 2011. We haven't had more than 3" of snow since I bought the thing. And 3", it's just as quick to shovel it than it is to get the big old snowblower out.

It's sat in my shed since then, never been run since that first day, the day after I bought it. I looked at it longingly once, hoping for the white stuff to fall, but it never did.

I had to get it fixed, because mice had built themselves a nice cozy home in the dang thing and it couldn't suck any air in to the engine. My neighbor had a better shop vac than I do.

So it bought me 2 years of snow-free peace.

Tomorrow shovelling will be out of the question. The snow has changed to freezing rain, so we're getting a coat of ice over all the white stuff, and it'll be packed solid.

BCRider
February 22, 2013, 12:41 AM
Tomorrow shovelling will be out of the question. The snow has changed to freezing rain, so we're getting a coat of ice over all the white stuff, and it'll be packed solid.

Ah yes... freezing rain. Lovely stuff. Nothing like coming out in the morning to see your Carsicle sitting there with its armor coating that thoroughly defies entry to start the engine without doing body work damage.....

I did 8 years of "penance" in Ontario some years back. All in all it was a positive thing but I don't miss the freezing rain nonsense... OR the Walls O' Ice at the end of the driveway left by the 5AM snowplow passing by that had to be broken up and tossed aside before I could drive to work.

Trent
February 22, 2013, 12:58 AM
I was listening to the police scanner while loading 9mm ammo tonight in the basement. Morton PD (nearby town) call comes in.

"Unit 2, I've got two cars pulled off the road by main street, don't know if they're in the ditch or what, stopping to check it out."

"Base to Unit 2, 10-4"

.... pull handle.. make ammo.. pull handle... make ammo... (x 50)

"Unit 2 to base, a lady got out to try to get her wipers unfroze, shut her car door, her car door froze shut. Boyfriend is on scene, locksmith has been called. I'm 10-8"

Yeah, it's one of THOSE kinds of nights out there.

Been a bit weird listening to thunder in February.

Not looking forward to what I find in my driveway tomorrow. :(

shooter429
February 22, 2013, 03:35 AM
Super lightweight like half a pound, 8 shots, DA/SA 3" bbl with fiber optic/adjustable sights. My kiddo loves the one I bought.

Shooter429

RTR_RTR
February 22, 2013, 04:51 AM
I would prefer a revolver for a newb, but most J frame .22s have a DA trigger only a gorilla could love and hammer cock effort can be a might much, too, for a small kid.

This is great for small hands, has two grips one can try that come with it. It's decently accurate and functions with most any .22 ammo.


Ruger SR22

Charging the slide / cocking the hammer / pulling the double action trigger all seem like they may be difficult for small/weak hands, at least based on my experiences with the SR22. I agree its a great size though

capcyclone
February 22, 2013, 06:56 PM
Without a doubt - single action revolver to start with. Ruger Bearcat is the only logical choice (my opinion). Good size, weight - and like others have said - it is a gun they will enjoy for YEARS - well after you are gone.

Trent
February 24, 2013, 10:16 AM
Oh, the Bearcat could be your answer, too. :D Cool little revolvers. I've always thought I'd like one, but never bought one. Hope the weather lets you have some fun, soon. You could bring it down here and we could shoot it on my range. It was 75 degrees today. :neener:

You Texans are really getting on my nerves:


.LOW PRESSURE LIFTING NORTHEASTWARD FROM TEXAS WILL BRING WINTRY PRECIPITATION TO WEST-CENTRAL AND NORTHWEST ILLINOIS LATE MONDAY NIGHT INTO TUESDAY. WITH WARM AIR FLOWING NORTHWARD ALOFT AND SURFACE TEMPERATURES HOVERING NEAR OR SLIGHTLY BELOW FREEZING...A PERIOD OF FREEZING RAIN IS EXPECTED AS THE PRECIPITATION BEGINS OVERNIGHT MONDAY. LIGHT ICE ACCUMULATIONS ARE ANTICIPATED ALONG AND NORTH OF A RUSHVILLE...TO LINCOLN...TO BLOOMINGTON-NORMAL
LINE. AS THE ATMOSPHERE COOLS ALOFT...THE PRECIPITATION WILL TRANSITION TO A RAIN/SNOW MIX TUESDAY MORNING. SNOW WILL LINGER ACROSS THE ILLINOIS RIVER VALLEY THROUGH THE AFTERNOON...WITH THE HIGHEST SNOW ACCUMULATIONS EXPECTED NORTHWEST OF THE ILLINOIS RIVER.


It's bad enough you flaunt your warm weather all winter long, but when you actually go out of your way TO SEND US SNOW, that's crossing the line!

FEUD! I DECLARE A FEUD!

(Still need to pick up this dang Bearcat. I've left two messages at the FFL who's holding it and haven't got a call back.. getting a little nervous...)

BCRider
February 24, 2013, 02:24 PM
The call is probably frozen in mid air.... :D

You may want to hold off calling out the whole state of Texas until you have the Bearcat safely in your hot little ha..... er... mittens.

Trent
February 24, 2013, 03:08 PM
LOL!

OK that made me laugh dude. Well done. :)

Trent
February 28, 2013, 08:48 PM
Ok. FINALLY found a night without snow or work or other obligations.

Here she is with her new Bearcat, happy as could be!

http://i.imgur.com/Ij2QQr1l.jpg

Sam1911
February 28, 2013, 09:01 PM
Awwww! :)

Trent
February 28, 2013, 11:02 PM
She's a cutie. All 4 feet of her. :)

We had to drive an hour each way to pick that up tonight. Just me & her. Left the rest of the kids and wife at home. She chatted me up the whole way asking questions about guns. She's also been following me down in to the reloading room every time I go down there, asking "what's that?" "what's that do?" (to the point it gets tiring!)

She's incredibly curious about firearms, which is part of the reason why I suddenly became incredibly concerned about getting her TRAINED.

My other kids showed no interest whatsoever until they were close to teenage years, nd even then, I practically have to pry them of their video games to get them to the range.

THIS little girl, she's throwing me a curve ball. She's showing an interest in arms much earlier than the others, AND that interest is MUCH stronger than the others.

Which concerns me. If she's old enough to follow me around asking about guns constantly, it means it's ABSOLUTELY time to train her on the proper use and safety of them.

Over the course of several evenings, I took her through the entire Basic Pistol regimen. The only thing left is live fire.

She's better educated about revolvers and autoloaders than some grown men I pal around with. She has memorized the parts, can tell a slide lock from a loading gate. She will not only correct you if you call a round a bullet ("THAT is a CARTRIDGE"), but she can also explain what the primer does, why the flash hole is there, what the powder does, and knows that the bullet is the chunk of metal that leaves the muzzle.

She's an incredibly fast learner.

She even corrected a friend of mine who was over last night, he let his finger drift to a trigger while I was showing him a WWII rifle, and she said "Dave! Get your bugger picker off the boomswitch!"

When I handed her the gun for the first time, and showed her how to check if it's clear, she pointed that finger straight as an arrow. I practically had to pry her finger off the frame to put it on the trigger to see if it would even reach.

Incredibly proud (and nervous) father.

Might have an Annie Oakly in the making here.. she loves riding AND guns, and she's starting both at a very young age..

Trent
February 28, 2013, 11:41 PM
BTW, any advice on perhaps lightening the trigger on the Bearcat some?

She's having a hard time pulling it (has to use BOTH fingers and shakes a little when doing it)

(It's about the same pull strength as DOUBLE action is on my Ruger SP101...)

Sam1911
March 1, 2013, 06:27 AM
:( Woah. That seems a bit odd. She won't have much fun or success with it that heavy. I'd say a gunsmith should have a look. Ours breaks at about 4 lbs, and the kids can handle it easily.

Trent
March 1, 2013, 11:22 AM
Yeah I was surprised by it for sure, Sam. I didn't expect a single action trigger to be anywhere NEAR this stiff. It feels more like a combat trigger on an L1A1 FAL than a single action revolver.

I can't find my trigger pull gauge or I'd give you an exact reading, will keep digging for it.

squid841
March 1, 2013, 12:04 PM
My son and I took the youngest granddaughter shooting, she's 8 but VERY small. I took my Wifes Walthers P22 for her to shoot and she loved it. She go's shooting/hunting with her Dad and has completed the junior hunter course here. In fact, all three of the grandkids have completed the course. She also shoots his "big Boy gun" his 1911, with reduced power lodes

Trent
March 1, 2013, 03:02 PM
EDIT ... doing more research

Trent
March 1, 2013, 03:25 PM
OK got a set of Wolff hammer springs on order, will also polish the engagement surfaces. See if we can get this thing tamed. Will post updates of before/after.

Trent
March 7, 2013, 12:55 PM
Stock trigger pull measured via electric gauge;

Min 4 lb 13 oz.
Max 6 lb 3 oz.
Avg 5 lb 10 oz.

Over 10 samples.

That's a pretty dang heavy trigger!

murf
March 7, 2013, 04:59 PM
take the cylinder out, put the base pin back in and dry fire it three or four hundred times. get the burrs knocked off of it. if it still doesn't lighten up, try the springs.

murf

Trent
March 7, 2013, 06:35 PM
I got the springs today from Midway (along with a bunch of other goodies!!!)

Any particular reason to take the cylinder out before dry firing? Manual says dry firing is fine, but doesn't mention cylinder removal.

Trent
March 7, 2013, 07:11 PM
Swapped the spring, put the 16# hammer spring in. (THAT was a chore...)

She can barely cock the hammer (but at least she CAN now).

The trigger weight was reduced to an avg. of 5 lb 4 oz.

At least it's a pound lighter than her birth weight now at 6 lb 4 oz. :)

We're going to practice dry fire after school each night so she can build up some muscles and smooth it out some.. :)

Deltaboy
March 7, 2013, 07:57 PM
Sounds like you got a winner now. :D Cute kid to boot.

SHR970
March 7, 2013, 08:43 PM
Adorable picture.....absolutely priceless.

If you are up to the task, remove the hammer and trigger and deburr the edges of the sides and the pin holes. Don't mess with the engagement surfaces unless you really know what you are doing. All you want to do is deburr them and ever so slightly round the edges.

Then let her dry fire it 200 - 400 times over a week or two. That will break the engagement surfaces in and deburr them. It will also get her used to the trigger pull and help strengthen her trigger finger and cocking thumb. 5 times around the cylinder each day X 14 days is 420 dry firings.

You can even add in six dry fires, open gate, simulate knocking brass out by running the rod, repeat. It's good hands on practice. A common complaint about 22 SA revolvers is the hassle of getting the brass out of the cylinder. Most people have issues with indexing while operating the ejection rod.

Trent
March 7, 2013, 10:14 PM
Adorable picture.....absolutely priceless.

If you are up to the task, remove the hammer and trigger and deburr the edges of the sides and the pin holes. Don't mess with the engagement surfaces unless you really know what you are doing. All you want to do is deburr them and ever so slightly round the edges.

Then let her dry fire it 200 - 400 times over a week or two. That will break the engagement surfaces in and deburr them. It will also get her used to the trigger pull and help strengthen her trigger finger and cocking thumb. 5 times around the cylinder each day X 14 days is 420 dry firings.

You can even add in six dry fires, open gate, simulate knocking brass out by running the rod, repeat. It's good hands on practice. A common complaint about 22 SA revolvers is the hassle of getting the brass out of the cylinder. Most people have issues with indexing while operating the ejection rod.

My 15 year old son and I wore out our thumbs tonight, dry fired it about 500 times. It's down to an average 4 lb 10 oz and smoothing up.

One thing I've noticed when I manually index the cylinder (at half cock with the loading gate open), it "binds" up at one point every revolution. This can also be felt when cocking the hammer every 6th time; for some reason, the action gets "tight" at that spot. Not sure what's causing that, but it also tightens up the trigger every 6th time it's indexed. The trigger will go from a light side of 4 lb 4 oz up to 6 lb 2 oz almost like clockwork, and back down again. That's a little concerning as it seems there's something in the action that's a little off-kilter. It affects the hammer pull as the cylinder binds, which I can understand.. but for some reason also affect the subsequent trigger pull to release it.

I'm not sure if it's contributing but one of the ratchet surfaces has a shiny spot towards the outside, maybe .1" - with a corresponding bright spot on the extractor to either side .. well, not an extractor, it's single action.. the part that isn't recessed that LOOKS like the extractor. :)

It appears either A) the base pin hole wasn't bored precisely straight or B) the chamber surface and ratchet wasn't surfaced at a precise 90 degree angle to the base pin bore.

There's no drag marks on the cylinder or cylinder stop notches (which makes sense as it binds up when the cylinder stop is completely disengaged and the cylinder is rotating freely).

Thoughts?

Trent
March 7, 2013, 10:17 PM
Update; it appears the cylinder is dragging the frame and the firing pin reinforcement - the bright spots on the "not the extractor" part are where it's hitting. One is binding hard, one not quite so hard, the other 4 clear and rotate freely.

This is the part that looks like an extractor but it simply metal left over from the cylinder surface, when they cut the chambers and recessed the cylinder for the rim of the cartridge.

EDIT: I believe I can correct this issue easily by polishing the surfaces that are binding. There's quite a mess of machining marks on the frame I can smooth out.

murf
March 8, 2013, 12:39 AM
smoothing out the back of the cylinder (i use a hard arkansas knife sharpening stone) should eliminate the binding you are experiencing. smoothing the frame area where the cylinder ratchets rotate couldn't hurt either.

my rule is to stone a little then try it. you can't get it back if you go too far.

hope your daughter doesn't get too frustrated. this is all part of the game. and a very good learning experience. it won't be the last time a firearm doesn't work perfectly from the getgo.

luck,

murf

Trent
March 8, 2013, 08:43 AM
smoothing out the back of the cylinder (i use a hard arkansas knife sharpening stone) should eliminate the binding you are experiencing. smoothing the frame area where the cylinder ratchets rotate couldn't hurt either.

my rule is to stone a little then try it. you can't get it back if you go too far.

hope your daughter doesn't get too frustrated. this is all part of the game. and a very good learning experience. it won't be the last time a firearm doesn't work perfectly from the getgo.

luck,

murf

I figured honing could help. The only problem I saw is losing bluing where I hone, but heck, it's already wearing off where it's binding anyway!

She's a tough little girl. I've explained to her that she "doesn't have big hairy monkey arms like Dad" (at which point I thumped my chest and acted like a monkey, and chased her around a bit). So I told her she'll need to practice cocking and pulling the trigger at home to build up some muscles in her hands.

The little girl can walk around the house on her hands, climb a door frame and hang upside down from the thing, and do back-bend stuff that would paralyze me. I told her we all have strengths, but even if she has trouble now she will get stronger with practice.

One thing I noticed, when she cocks the revolver she tends to keep her trigger inside the finger guard. (I do this, too, I found, but I'm pushing forward with it, and not touching the trigger). So I'm working with her when she practices to remove her finger from the trigger guard before she cocks it. We'll also use it as an excuse to practice dry fire.

She was bugging me non-stop to shoot it! So I took her out on the back deck (day after I brought it home). She's not tall enough to see (or shoot) OVER the back rail of my deck... so I tossed a soda can on the ground out back and let her shoot it between the rails. Seemed like a great idea indoors, but man I was nervous handing her a loaded gun when we got out there. I found she had to hand it to me, to cock, then hand it back to her to shoot.. I'm a little uncomfortable with this (handing a cocked weapon over...my hand is inevitably covering SOME part of the cylinder gap when doing so... an accidental trigger pull would be painful)

Right before she fired the last shot, I noticed (too late) that the muzzle was aligned very near one of the deck posts she was sighting through... but couldn't say STOP in time, she creased it just as I noticed.

So now my deck has a little battle-scar.

Anyway this weekend we'll get some real range time in, with targets. I think I'll get a pack of balloons to blow up & staple to the backstop for her to shoot.

Deer_Freak
March 8, 2013, 09:59 AM
Either a Heritage Rough Rider (lots of grips for $20) or a Ruger 22/45. I have a Heritage Rough Rider with a 9" barrel. At first children are intimidated by the barrel length. Most have shot a 22 rifle a lot. I just tell them it is like shooting a rifle with a pistol grip. All but one neighborhood kid ended up shooting it on the first offer.

Teaching children with a single action saves ammo and it forces them to learn the basics. They can spray and pray when they can buy their own ammo.

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