Rude jerk at the range today


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ID-shooting
February 16, 2013, 06:57 PM
Was at the local public range today with the wife and kid. We were pretty much done and boxing our guns back up and cleaning our empty ammo boxes and what not. The jerk pulls up to our cars and he starts walking down the line picking up brass. He gets to us and I tell him "no thanks, we are picking our own brass up. Have a great day" he starts wondering in and around our things picking up MY brass. I ask him again to stop in a very nice manner. He says somthing like "fair game if it is on the ground."

I didn't know what to say. I packed the wife and kid up and left. I feel robbed, stolen from and am quite angry.

Cooler heads and cordial manners mush prevail with loaded guns, but what do you guys do when someone abuses that?

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cyclopsshooter
February 16, 2013, 06:59 PM
Not cool, you did the right thing, the safety of your family is not worth risking over brass.

Yo Mama
February 16, 2013, 07:20 PM
Chalk it up to the guy needing it more than you. :D

You did the right thing, and yes it's hard.

beatledog7
February 16, 2013, 07:22 PM
I've seen similar activity. Because of this, I pick up my brass frequently, so the most of mine there could ever be lying on the floor/ground is a mag or two worth. If this were my 9mm brass I would have said something like, "Sure, if you're that hard up, go ahead." But that's if he asks first. But .257 Bob or 45-70 brass? No freakin' way he's stealing that from me. Of course, that doesn't hit the ground unless it happens to roll off the bench.

I'm not sure I could have been as...well, let's just say I think I may have handled it differently. I'm not criticizing the OP; I sometimes don't take jerkism very well.

atblis
February 16, 2013, 07:23 PM
Never had that happen to me at a private range.

Doubleobuck
February 16, 2013, 07:26 PM
You were the bigger man.

He was a butthead

Steve51
February 16, 2013, 08:11 PM
I am from a rural area and a member of a sportsman club. I have never seen anyone act like that. Everyone I have encountered would help me pick up my brass and I do the same for others.
I know it don't help much - but you did the right thing!

soloban
February 16, 2013, 08:20 PM
This has happened to me before at the Public range in AL. Was shooting the M1 and went down to do a target change and half way back up from changing my target I spotted this Chinese guy with a plastic trashcan wandering around picking up brass. He managed to grab about half a dozen of my carefully prepped .30-06 cases before I made it back and quickly snatched up the rest. Thankfully he got the hint. Same range, there is a brass scrounger/reseller that hangs out at the range on weekends and sends his kids to scavenge for brass, but at least he has taught his kids manners and they will at least ask before they pickup your brass.

ColtPythonElite
February 16, 2013, 08:25 PM
I have paid what I consider good money for brass and don't want it stolen from me. I would have likely given him one more friendly notice that he was taking my property. If he continued, I would have likely called the proper LE and let them sort it out. I would likely go as far as prosecution.

Grmlin
February 16, 2013, 08:40 PM
It may not feel like it but with the family with you, you did the right thing. Maybe point this out to the range officer if they have one. I don't tolerate arrogance/rudeness very well either but sometimes you have to.

Or you could accidently step on his hand when walking by.

JohnKSa
February 16, 2013, 09:15 PM
Or you could accidently step on his hand when walking by.How could he object to that?--if it's on the ground, it's fair game.

lobo9er
February 16, 2013, 10:20 PM
As I get older and older theres not much worth a arguing over with a stranger, theres to many strange people. Best just leave with your family and know you have a happier life not needing to snatch up a fellows brass.

Jim K
February 16, 2013, 10:35 PM
Some years ago, I had a fellow actually scrounging my brass even as I was firing. He would jump on a case almost before it hit the ground. I was ticked off, not because he was taking my brass, but because he was distracting me.

Made me mad enough that I didn't tell him it was Berdan primed.

Jim

USAF_Vet
February 16, 2013, 10:45 PM
Only time I've picked up brass that wasn't mine was with the permission of the shooter, or brass that had been abandoned.

I can't say what is do in the OP's situation. Probably just chalk it up as a loss, not worth getting bent out of shape over, even/ especially in these turbulent times.

blaisenguns
February 16, 2013, 11:26 PM
Quote:
Or you could accidently step on his hand when walking by.

How could he object to that?--if it's on the ground, it's fair game

LOL! True enough! Had it been me I probably would not have been so nice, but all the people I meet at ranges are really nice. Had he been taking my .45s I would have been upset, had he taken my .475 Wildey, or .50 AE brass he would have been in trouble.

HankB
February 16, 2013, 11:44 PM
Many years ago, when we were in our early 20's, four of us were at an underground commercial indoor rifle range in the Chicago area - we were "regulars" and the only ones on the range so the range officer took a break and left us to ourselves. In due course, an older guy wandered in and began scrounging our brass. (We all were reloaders.)

We politely informed him that it was ours, and he replied with a smirk "Finders keepers" and kept on picking up the brass and pocketing it as it hit the ground.

When he tried to leave, I blocked the door and told him to return our brass. He told me to move or he'd slap me out of the way.

I informed him rather colorfully that . . . well, this being The High Road and all, let's just say with four of us around him, he emptied his pockets of what he attempted to steal, albeit with poor grace. When we told the range officer about this he said they'd had other complaints about the guy, and he wasn't even supposed to be on the range.

Fortunately, I've found that persons like him are the exception - not the rule - in the shooting community.

chris in va
February 16, 2013, 11:52 PM
I always ask first before picking up brass around someone's table. Things would have gotten heated if they kept picking up my brass.

1KPerDay
February 17, 2013, 12:11 AM
Some years ago, I had a fellow actually scrounging my brass even as I was firing. He would jump on a case almost before it hit the ground. I was ticked off, not because he was taking my brass, but because he was distracting me.

Made me mad enough that I didn't tell him it was Berdan primed.

Jim
doubt he would have cared... brass monkeys generally scrounge for scrap. Doubt he was even a shooter. Next week he'll be ripping the catalytic converter out of your truck and the copper pipe out of your house.

Ehtereon11B
February 17, 2013, 01:24 AM
This is why I ALWAYS ask if someone is okay with me policing up some brass. Some like to reload their brass as I do. If they don't want it, I'll pick some up after they leave. Politeness, manners, and respect around others with firearms all the time.

taraquian
February 17, 2013, 01:53 AM
Here at our public range people see me collecting brass and call me over to get theirs, there are 2 other guys that collect brass every day, when we see each others cars we just skip the range the other is at (there are 7 ranges +1 LEO only).

last time I was there though I had a guy walk downrange while I was SHOOTING! when I stopped and yelled to him 'Going hot!' he looked up and said OK but didn't move. I stopped firing and policed my brass while I waited for him to get back behind the line, after he did I resumed shooting but when I turned to get a drink he was picking up my uncles brass from the bench.

I took it out of his hand and put it in my bag and we cleaned up and left, I did ask him if he was a special kind of stupid for walking downrange and he looked at me confused, like he didn't know you can't do that.

<*(((><
February 17, 2013, 02:32 AM
Was this at nampa rod and gun...or out at the public near pickle butte?

llwsgn
February 17, 2013, 02:45 AM
Kudos! You displayed wisdom. Witnessing you use wisdom in a tight situation was excellent for your family. I'd forget about the fool.

tuj
February 17, 2013, 03:04 AM
This is why some ranges won't even let you pick up your brass. Aside from the 'burned fingers' liability

Sheepdog1968
February 17, 2013, 03:24 AM
I know a guy (call him Bob, technically a friend of a friend) who had someone do that to him. Bob said you can have my brass but please wait till I'm done. The stranger was insulted and when bob was down range at a cease fire this guy grabbed bobs rifle and shot at bob. Yes rso and others tackled this guy, called leos, and the stranger did prison time. Yes, over brass. There are crazy folks out there so I don't like to honk horns, stare at people, etc. I let many things slide. You handled it well.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
February 17, 2013, 03:30 AM
As Yo Mama said
Chalk it up to the guy needing it more than you.
I have found, in life in general, what goes around eventually comes around. You probably won't get to see the results of his being an a$$, but know that eventually he will "get-his" in return for that.

rondog
February 17, 2013, 04:03 AM
This is one reason I joined a private club with several separate ranges. Any brass you find on a vacant range is fair game, and I'm a terrible brass scrounger. But I would never DREAM of going near another shooter and picking up brass. Even if it was obviously not his, I'd never intrude in someone's space like that.

I have, on occaision, walked up to see what they were shooting if it sounded odd or looked cool. One guy let me fire his AR-50 three rounds, another was a LEO sighting in his issued M16A2 and was running full-auto bursts through it. Just had to see that. Another guy had an AR15 with a suppressor that sounded really strange, my curiosity drove me to ask what it was, I was surprised it was still that loud when suppressed.

Passed another range and a guy had a Browning 1919 up on the bench, just going to town with it, but I didn't stop.

I'll pick up any brass at an empty range, but never when there's someone there. That's just ignorant. I pulled into one range and some feller had picked up all his Greek HXP .30-06 brass, but he left the 18 enbloc clips on the bench for the next guy to have, and that was me!

And speaking of picking up brass, I have to throw out a shameless plug for the Brass Mower. I got one of those for Christmas, and I'll tell ya, that's the best damn invention ever! It'll pick up .22's to 12 ga. hulls with no problem, I highly recommend them!!! Well worth the money, especially if you're old and fat and have a bad back, like me. http://www.brassmower.com/

I also bought a "magnet on a stick" from Harbor Freight, and I use that with a bucket to help clean up as many of those damned steel cases from the club ranges as I can. It kills me that people are so cheap they'll shoot that steel Russian garbage by the thousands, and then just leave it lay because it's worthless, or "it'll rust away someday". If YOU are one of those people, PICK UP YOUR TRASH! Don't be "that guy"!

powderx
February 17, 2013, 08:11 AM
I'm sorry but I wouldn't have walked away feeling hurt and upset. I would have stood my ground for my property. You can't let people get away with that.

glennv
February 17, 2013, 08:16 AM
You mean you were carrying a loaded gun and didn't shoot this guy with your high capacity magazines and assault weapons? If find this hard to believe the gun in your holster didn't compel an otherwise rational person, like you, to do something irrational.

tuj
February 17, 2013, 08:18 AM
I'm sorry but I wouldn't have walked away feeling hurt and upset. I would have stood my ground for my property. You can't let people get away with that.

One of the first things you learn as an NRA Range Safety Officer is not to upset other people with guns. While I agree with you in principle, in this case, the OP did exactly the right thing. It's not worth getting shot over some stupid brass.

powderx
February 17, 2013, 08:24 AM
One of the first things you learn as an NRA Range Safety Officer is not to upset other people with guns. While I agree with you in principle, in this case, the OP did exactly the right thing. It's not worth getting shot over some stupid brass.

I didn't say anything about shooting or provoking shooting. There are ways to be a man that don't involve guns - even when they're nearby.

Carl N. Brown
February 17, 2013, 08:38 AM
If someone asks if you want your brass before picking it up, no problem to me.
If someone picks up your brass w/o asking, he is brass, w/o the br.

I don't scrounge left-behind brass unless I am the only one on the line and the brass is truly abandoned.

If the jerk had such bad manners as to treat your brass as fair game with you still retrieving it yourself, though, the risk of confronting him might not be worth the effort.

However, I have shot recreationally with ex-military, ex-cop and biker gun enthusiasts who would correct bad attitudes in manners in ways I would not care to witness.

Carl N. Brown
February 17, 2013, 08:48 AM
It kills me that people are so cheap they'll shoot that steel Russian garbage by the thousands, and then just leave it lay because it's worthless, or "it'll rust away someday".

At the local gun club, the rule at the outdoor ranges is supposed to be, pick up all empties over .22 rimfire because they sometimes become missiles when run over with the lawn mower. Unfortunately, some folks leave their steel casings which may not be reloadable or recyclable, but are still dangerous when tossed by a lawn mower blade.

Racinfan83
February 17, 2013, 09:02 AM
I haven't had any issues with brass pickers - but some years ago at a conservation dept public range I had some jerkwad shoot while my kids were downrange posting targets :fire::fire:
He got off three rounds before I got close enough and loud enough for the idiot to hear me. And I do always open carry a large handgun when I am at a public range. My hand was on it when I got to him. Needless to say I was NOT happy. He started to get blustery and tell me that it was my duty to INFORM him we were downrange??? I was pissed. He had a Marine hat on - and I asked him "didn't they teach you in the Marines to always make sure the range is clear before you shoot"? What an idiot. I was mad beyond belief that someone would not look to make sure the range was clear before firing. He finally thought better of his arguement and apologized. I was just glad that I am a pretty big dude - and that I had my hand on my pistol when I ran up to him. Not sure how that would have gone if I had just went off on him with no backup...

ID-shooting
February 17, 2013, 09:09 AM
Was this at nampa rod and gun...or out at the public near pickle butte?
Pickle Butte down the road from the county landfill.

Normally we just go out to the BLM lands to shoot but the wife had to be to work by 2 so we run over there.

PRM
February 17, 2013, 09:24 AM
Another affirmation of why I shoot a revolver - my brass rarely hits the ground on a target range unless I want it to.:) Taking it out of my hand, pocket, or ammo box is NOT FAIR GAME!!!

OilyPablo
February 17, 2013, 09:39 AM
The implication that this is city/suburbian behavior is quite wrong.

I shoot indoors (bad weather) in Bellevue (WCA). NEVER seen this. In fact, quite the opposite. Good weather I shoot at MRC (private) outdoors, never seen this.

Just one rude dog. You did the right thing. Good on you.

If he tried to pick up my 6.8SPC or 10mm he would have pulled back just the broom handle, no broom head. Just saying I would have asked him where he is coming from.

rodinal220
February 17, 2013, 10:01 AM
So if you dropped your wallet on the ground he is entitled to it??? My brass my property.I have been to ranges where they say any brass that hits the floor is theirs,SORRY but no.
If you try to deprive me of my property its a theft,if you commit a theft and use force its a robbery,if you have a folder knife or firearm in sight on your person deadly force has been authorized.

Sam1911
February 17, 2013, 10:08 AM
So if you dropped your wallet on the ground he is entitled to it??? My brass my property.I have been to ranges where they say any brass that hits the floor is theirs,SORRY but no.
If you try to deprive me of my property its a theft,if you commit a theft and use force its a robbery,if you have a folder knife or firearm in sight on your person deadly force has been authorized.Oh good grief. Not this again.

Big tough guy's gonna kill someone in a fight over a piece of (deity condemned) brass.

Sure. Right. That's one of them there "justifiable homicides" right? :rolleyes:

Hopefully there's no real need to tear through all the ways this macho BS talk is 1) embarrassing, 2) backward of mindset regarding use of force in self-defense, and 3) way off "The High Road."

jj1962hemi
February 17, 2013, 10:10 AM
You did the right thing. I never realized this happens. I shoot at a couple of indoor ranges and haven't seen or heard of this. People are nuts, though, and discretion is the better part of valor. The guy that shot at somebody is lucky he didn't "slip on a bar of soap" before the LEOs got there.

JRWhit
February 17, 2013, 10:34 AM
I think you absolutely did the right thing. When I used to frequent a public range I always kept a side arm holstered. There are some odd ones that show up and I've heard countless stories of guns getting stolen while down range. Contrary to popular belief, keeping a side arm holstered, or even being around firearms in such a setting made me a politer person more willing to back away from confrontation rather to engage it. This is not because of weakness. It's because I have an understanding of what an argument might progress to. It's not worth the trouble of engaging a hothead when your armed. If they have displayed enough stupidity as to aggravate a stranger with a gun, I know then to back down, because ultimately I don't want it to escalate to a point of draw over something as simple as a bad range day.

XD 45acp
February 17, 2013, 10:48 AM
A Ninjy kick and a Judy Chop should have done him in......:D

Ah, Brass Pirates are everywhere....

UniversalFrost
February 17, 2013, 10:59 AM
check your range regs if private (or even some public ranges) ... most ranges you are only allowed to pick up your brass for reuse, after that it is the ranges to utilize. most ranges also require you to pick up your brass (police up your area), but they only allow you to reutilie your brass and dont allow others to just wander around pickup up only brass and not shooting.

had a similiar incident a few years ago with an old guy at the range (was on a military post) who was shooting (if you can call bringing 1 pistol and shooting 10 shots for an entire morning of shooting) , but mostly was being a brass vulture and picking up all the brass around.. most folks were not saying a thing because he was basically policing up their areas for them... I was the RO for the day and had warned him to ask first before picking it up (we had a policy of you pick up your brass only, but i was loosely enforcing it as I was paying more attention to a bunch of yahoos trying to impress their girlfriends and I wanted to make sure they didnt hurt them selves or somebody around them)....

anyway my shift was over but i stayed around to shoot some new loads i was working on in my p229 in 357 sig... whent he cease fire was called and i was checking my targets i turned back and noticed the old guy picking up my brass.. i went over and said that I wanted my brass back .. .he started to argue and then i quickly said i reload as well and that was mine... he turned away and i quickly raised my voice and repeated I wanted MY BRASS back and proceeded to get between him and his shooting lane... only at that point did he relent and cough up the brass.... i then kicked him off the range since he was not shooting and gave him a warning for violating the range rules and said that if he had another run in with myself or anyother RO for the next month he would be banned for a year (range rules)...


anyway, if the vulture in the post by the OP was not shooting then he had no right to even pick up brass unless other shooters allowed him to (and the RO or range allowed it)... i personally would have elevated the issue with the guy and not backed down ... he is taking your stuff and lots of folks are arrogant up to a point when they realize the other party is not backing down.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
February 17, 2013, 10:59 AM
Weren't his shoes on the ground?
You could have asked him to give you his shoes in exchange for the few pieces of brass he could scrounge.

ID-shooting
February 17, 2013, 11:16 AM
Too bad A-hats like this take the fun away. BTW, there is no RO here. Kinda wish there was as it is close and a nice place, most days.

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/?getPage=313

twice barrel
February 17, 2013, 11:45 AM
I've recently spent a good deal of cash getting components and there's no way I'd have stood there and let that guy steal from me. I is not "fair game when it hits the ground"; its yours.

He'll keep doing it until someone stands up to him.

TB

jon_in_wv
February 17, 2013, 11:57 AM
Oh good grief. Not this again.

Big tough guy's gonna kill someone in a fight over a piece of (deity condemned) brass.

Sure. Right. That's one of them there "justifiable homicides" right?

Hopefully there's no real need to tear through all the ways this macho BS talk is 1) embarrassing, 2) backward of mindset regarding use of force in self-defense, and 3) way off "The High Road."

I would agree whole heartedly but since I've lived in WV one thing I've learned is a lot of people here are used to being bullies and they will do whatever they please unless someone steps up and tell them by no uncertain terms NO. It's not about using force but being forceful in defending the right thing. Some people don't care if you don't like what they are doing because they don't think what they do is any of your business even if what they are doing is stealing from you. I hate to tell you but maybe where you live things are a lot more civil but things aren't the same everywhere. Besides, there is a loooong way between telling someone to back off you property and shooting them over it. That way of thinking belongs to the antis who claim if we carry we will all shoot each other over parking spots. Just because we are at the range armed doesn't mean we are going to shoot it out over every little disagreement.

Sav .250
February 17, 2013, 12:25 PM
Most private ranges have written rules. One being to pick up your own bass when your done . Range officials at present to help you under stand them.
Seems like you just ran into a jerk of the first order.

Public ranges may be safe but rules many be left open to interpretation.

armoredman
February 17, 2013, 01:06 PM
Only time I've had this happen they were grabbing my 9mm brass, and I said loudly, "Oh, sure, you can have my 9mm brass, I've got lots more at home." Got a nasty glare from the woman grabbing it, but they went on doing it. I also switched to 38 Special.

Smokin Gator
February 17, 2013, 02:00 PM
I've run into a couple of guys at shooting matches, who weren't as concerned with shooting the match as much as they were trying to scrounge brass. They usually can't shoot very well at all, but will tell you how many buckets of brass they have in their garage. One guy, who happened to be shooting nickle 38 super brass, initially grabbed my regular 45 acp brass when someone was returning it after picking it up when the stage ended. I was the shooter and told him that it was my brass and he gave it back, pretending that he thought it was his. He laughed as this all happened because everyone, including him, knew there was no way to accidently think it was his. Mark

Sam1911
February 17, 2013, 02:19 PM
Hopefully there's no real need to tear through all the ways this macho BS talk is 1) embarrassing, 2) backward of mindset regarding use of force in self-defense, and 3) way off "The High Road."

I would agree whole heartedly but since I've lived in WV one thing I've learned is a lot of people here are used to being bullies and they will do whatever they please unless someone steps up and tell them by no uncertain terms NO. It's not about using force but being forceful in defending the right thing. Some people don't care if you don't like what they are doing because they don't think what they do is any of your business even if what they are doing is stealing from you. I hate to tell you but maybe where you live things are a lot more civil but things aren't the same everywhere. Besides, there is a loooong way between telling someone to back off you property and shooting them over it.

Certainly, you can and perhaps should take some steps to protect your own interests, (though proactive ones are highly preferred over reactive confrontational ones) but...

a) The post I was referring to did go right from someone picking up your brass to an inane comment about how "if you have a folder knife or firearm in sight on your person deadly force has been authorized." Words illustrative of blatantly illegal acts, someone searching for excuses to use their gun, and a verbal show of having no concept of appropriate behavior (including for participation here).

b) Even if you live in the rudest place on earth, you need to have the social skills and street smarts to take you AWAY from violence, not into it. If you find yourself in a "monkey dance" trying to face down some jerk at the range, you're far enough off the right path to be only moments away from using your weapon -- regardless of whether you realize that or not. And "mutual combatants" (folks who argue, scuffle, and fight before going to guns) are not afforded a legal justification if they brandish a weapon or assault or kill someone.

beatledog7
February 17, 2013, 02:33 PM
A thief is a thief. There's nothing macho about taking a stand against a thief.

I'm surprised: we've previously had people posting on here that it's ok to shoot a fleeing thief in the back if he's got your TV, and now we have people saying it's not ok to confront a guy who's stealing your valuable brass before you get a chance to pick it up.

Not stopping a thief, in my book, is the same as condoning his thievery. I'm going to revise my earlier post about there being a difference between 9mm and .257 Bob. My brass is my brass. If he asks me some 9mm, he can have it for the price of picking it up. Otherwise, he's asking for problems, and he's very likely going to have some. That's not macho talk; that's just plain old right vs. wrong.

788Ham
February 17, 2013, 02:37 PM
I belong to a private club, part of our work hours commitment involves doing sight-ins before hunting seasons. Helping these folks is a fun part of this duty, make some good friends this way. When helping some one adjust scope, tighten scope rings or whatever, one will question them if they reload the ammo their shooting. Most time, no, they don't reload, "You can have the brass when I'm finished." Over 250 mty brass '06 cases came home with me in just 2 days of helping out. I sympathize with those having their brass stolen, nothing irks me more! Glad everyone placed cooler heads above all else!

Sam1911
February 17, 2013, 02:46 PM
A thief is a thief. There's nothing macho about taking a stand against a thief. A person picking up what falls on the ground may be stepping outside of your social niceties, but he's not stealing your stereo. He's picking up something worth relatively very little and may have no idea that you really care. If he wants to be a jerk when you tell him you plan on keeping it, there are right and wrong ways to handle that.

I'm surprised: we've previously had people posting on here that it's ok to shoot a fleeing thief in the back if he's got your TV, and now we have people saying it's not ok to confront a guy who's stealing your valuable brass before you get a chance to pick it up.If you've seen anyone here post that shooting a fleeing thief in the back if he's got your TV (outside of a few yahoos down in TX ;)) -- and that went unchallenged, I'd be surprised.

"Confronting" someone who is taking your brass is fine, if done appropriately. Allowing yourself to be drawn into an argument or fight -- or heaven forbid a shooting! -- over it is absolutely a failure on your part.

Otherwise, he's asking for problems, and he's very likely going to have some. That's not macho talk; that's just plain old right vs. wrong.He's going to have some problems? O...K. Do tell. What "problems" do you consider it appropriate to give someone for stealing the brass you dropped?

You talking about reporting him to the range officer?

You talking about assaulting him?

Or are you talking about, "if you have a folder knife or firearm in sight on your person deadly force has been authorized?"

Hangingrock
February 17, 2013, 02:50 PM
No matter the endeavor/venue there appears to be a sleaze factor involved. I can’t say that it is more prevalent or I just take more notice of that behavior lately. As luck would have it I have no necessity to use a public range as I have annual membership in a private range on leased land, I’m a land owner member in another range, and have my own pistol range on my property.

When I resided in Pennsylvania I would shoot at a state game lands range. On occasion there would be issues. The behavior of some individuals’ was such a nuisance that I sought membership in private clubs of which one was Beaver Valley Rifle & Pistol Club Inc. Private clubs have procedures to resolve issues without being confrontational.

beatledog7
February 17, 2013, 03:38 PM
Sam, the confrontation may go no further than making sure the guy knows he's in the wrong. It may escalate to a shouting match. But shooting? Not in a million years.

And yeah, it was those Texas guys. I've got no beef with Texas besides that one.

By "have some problems" I simply mean he's eventually going to be held accountable for his actions. Maybe not to me, but to someone who's less restrained. I want to make sure he's aware that his day of reckoning will arrive. Perhaps that will at least influence him to think about what he's doing in a new way.

And he still can't have my Bob brass. Not that it'll be on the ground anyway.

powderx
February 17, 2013, 03:50 PM
Everyone surely has to remember to choose their battles wisely.

I'm not one to generally let people walk all over me and if I did let people walk all over me I certainly wouldn't consider myself morally superior to them!

I'm not sure what the point is to just rolling over and then complaining about it. I have my ideas on what is expected of this kind of thinking and it makes me cringe.

joeschmoe
February 17, 2013, 04:26 PM
I like to go to my local (outdoor) range when it's raining. I'm the only one there. On a nice day it's packed.

1858
February 17, 2013, 05:53 PM
I've been shooting at public ranges (regularly) in the US for more than 20 years and I've never had anyone take my brass. I've had some ask me if I'm going to keep it but NEVER take it without asking. The "regular" brass scroungers are typically very respectful of other shooters because they've interacted with all sorts over the years and they're not looking for a confrontation. I would hazard a guess that it's just a matter of time before the individual described in the original post gets an "adjustment".

Sam1911
February 17, 2013, 05:56 PM
Sam, the confrontation may go no further than making sure the guy knows he's in the wrong. It may escalate to a shouting match. But shooting? Not in a million years.I don't see a problem with making him aware that he's overstepping his bounds. Now he may feel (and there may even be a range regulation that says!) that brass on the ground is free to whomever wants it. (...or that it is property of the range owners.) That's a difference of opinion that may be settled by contacting the range staff or by simply informing him that, "Excuse me. (!) I reload and am taking my brass home with me."

But the days of shouting matches solving anything without escalating to improper and possibly unlawful physical contact are probably gone, if they ever existed. And, as I'm sure most folks here already know, if you're in an argument that turns into a shoving match, that turns into a scuffle ... ETC, you do not get to claim self-defense. You are a mutual combatant. Mutual combatants can't say that they had a lawful justification for a use of force (instead they get "assault") or deadly force ("manslaughter").

So, you want to tell the guy that he's erred in picking up your brass -- or even that he's being rude and needs to give you back what he took -- that should be fine.

But if he wants to take it to the next level, if you don't back down you can absolutely find yourself drug into unlawful conduct, and neither the cops nor the jury are going to care WHO'S 50 cent piece of brass it was that started the altercation.

beatledog7
February 17, 2013, 06:06 PM
"Shouting match" is a euphemism for something more than a gentle reminder, something less than a shootout. You're probably right that shouting would yield no positive results. But a clear exposition of the issue within earshot of others would possibly garner a backing down from the anti-doner of my brass.

And it's not the $.50, Sam; it's the principle of right vs. wrong. Would we have differing points of view on this if the items being pilfered were sodas, cookies, chips, etc.? They're not worth a lot of money either, but I'm not gonna stand by while some guy five-fingers them from me. And neither would you, I'll bet.

Sam1911
February 17, 2013, 06:36 PM
And it's not the $.50, Sam; it's the principle of right vs. wrong. Would we have differing points of view on this if the items being pilfered were sodas, cookies, chips, etc.? They're not worth a lot of money either, but I'm not gonna stand by while some guy five-fingers them from me. And neither would you, I'll bet.
No, I'm with you. And that's why I say it is perfectly acceptable to make your feelings known.

But we've had people in this very thread who --literally-- took this all the way to use of lethal force.

We aren't enforcers, and sometimes others are willing to do unethical or even illegal things which may cause us loss. We, as law-abiding folks, have limits to our physical resistance or retribution. Sometimes we can work it out. Sometimes we might use a little verbal judo to convince (or shame) them into doing what we think is the right thing. Sometimes we can appeal to the law for redress of wrongs.

Sometimes we have to be "the bigger man" and let it go. Not my wife, not my kids? I'm not dying for it or going to jail for it.

jon_in_wv
February 17, 2013, 09:13 PM
A lot of people talk a lot of trash about using lethal force and have never been faces with the situation. I have several times in the line of duty and I while I carry and train diligently I pray to God I will never have to face that situation again. Those who feel otherwise really need to grow up.

rondog
February 17, 2013, 09:35 PM
Considering that, depending on the caliber, a reloadable brass case can be worth from a nickle to a quarter, if you dropped a bunch of coins on the ground would anyone consider it OK to let some yahoo swoop in and start gathering them up? Buy some once-fired brass sometime, and figure how much they are apiece. Brass on the ground is no different than coins on the ground, in my opinion.

foxs
February 17, 2013, 10:39 PM
I would have told him pound sand.

blaisenguns
February 17, 2013, 10:52 PM
Considering that, depending on the caliber, a reloadable brass case can be worth from a nickle to a quarter, if you dropped a bunch of coins on the ground would anyone consider it OK to let some yahoo swoop in and start gathering them up? Buy some once-fired brass sometime, and figure how much they are apiece. Brass on the ground is no different than coins on the ground, in my opinion.


I have one gun that brass is $2 a piece on a good day, if I can find it.

savanahsdad
February 17, 2013, 11:32 PM
some years back I was a the county range shooting some 270's they were heading to my scrap bin after that as they were on there 8th firing and some were loaded hot in the past , I found a few that I should not have even been loaded that last time ! :eek: 179938


when I was down changing my targets (100yards) , a guy came buy picking up brass for reloading , and when I got back to the shooting bench I saw that all my brass that hit the ground was gone , but the brass I had set on the bench was still there , , I stoped the guy and ask him what he was going to do with the brass he was picking up ? he said he was going to load it up! I then showed him some of my cracked cases , and told him the brass he had pick up off the ground (without asking) was from the same batch . he looked in his big bag of mixed brass , and said OHoooo... I said good luck with that:rolleyes: and next time ask :D

savanahsdad
February 17, 2013, 11:40 PM
I have one gun that brass is $2 a piece on a good day, if I can find it.
me too, shoot ,pick up brass , shoot , pick up brass , (32Rem.)

GLOOB
February 18, 2013, 01:01 AM
I woulda been angry, too. Heck, I don't even ask if I can pick up someone else's brass. I figure that's rude, itself. Plenty of people will offer, unsolicited, when they see me picking up my own. Some will even sweep it over in a pile.

The guy might have thought you were a scavenger, too. Seeing as you already packed away all your gear.

beatledog7
February 18, 2013, 11:59 AM
Where I shoot most frequently there are lots of people new to shooting, many just trying out various rental guns. Virtually none of them reload.

I don't think it's rude to ask, especially when you see guy sweeping the brass around his lane into a dustpan then heading for the bin with it. Several times when I've offered to clean up after a shooter so that I can have the brass, that shooter has started asking questions about reloading, and I've taken a step toward adding another reloader to the ranks. We could discuss the downside of that (more competition for components) in another thread, but as I see it, a shooter who also reloads is more likely to support all aspects of 2A.

Matno
February 18, 2013, 12:31 PM
This is a situation where a cell phone can come in handy. If you immediately pull out your phone and take a picture of him and his license plate, then loudly place a call to report a theft to the police (even if you're just bluffing), he'd be likely to back off and you wouldn't be in trouble for threatening him with a weapon.

leadcounsel
February 18, 2013, 12:37 PM
You did the right thing. No way brass is worth risking serious confrontation, esp. when he is likely armed and could snap.

Report him to the range and have him kicked out or banned for theft of your brass when you told him to stop.

powderx
February 18, 2013, 02:29 PM
Just because you're at a shooting range and guns are present doesn't mean they have to be used or you leave your balls at home!

Come on now!

Corpral_Agarn
February 18, 2013, 02:57 PM
That really stinks I am sorry to hear that jerk was messing with you.
You did absolutely the right thing. Wife and kids come first.

We have scavengers at the range I frequent but if you tell them what your shooting 9 times outta 10 they pick it up for you and give it to you. Nice folks, really. When i go huntin' for my brass and i find one i don't care about, i usually toss it in their bucket.

rondog
February 18, 2013, 03:15 PM
I'm telling y'all, get one of these and a bucket, and keep it near you when you're shooting. Every so often spend a minute and police up your brass, and put it in your bucket. Buy one of these and you'll wish you'd bought one years ago. I kid you not. Doesn't work the greatest in grass, but on hard surfaces it can't be beat. I gather brass one-handed, with a cigar or soda in the other hand, and that little basket will hold a LOT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKwwQ5D3xco

12gaugeTim
February 18, 2013, 05:09 PM
BLM master race here, no idea what you guys are talking about

highlander 5
February 18, 2013, 06:00 PM
I've never had a problem wih people swipeing my brass at the 2 ranges that I go to. When I shoot my 45 autos I use brass with a disstinctive head stamp so there's no mistaking which brass is mine. If there's someone else shooting 45 auto and I'll pick up his brass by mistake I give them back to them. If he says " keep it" all's fine and good. Now I understand that there is some brass that is VERY expensive and the shooter wants it back to reload,but are you willing to get into an altercation over a piece of brass? If most of the reloadeer here are anything like me we have more brass than we'll ever know what to do with. I hate losing brass more than you can imagine and over the years I've worked on being less OCD about it.
This is no joke at one ttime I had 25,000 9 mm cases thanks to the local Coast Guard that used our range a couple of times a year to qualify.

jon_in_wv
February 18, 2013, 09:42 PM
OMG people would you please stop saying things like, " he might be armed and snap and shoot me"?!?!! For God's sake we of all people should know being armed and being a MURDERER are two totally different things. ANYONE you talk to could be armed, do you walk around at all times in fear that if you look at someone the wrong way they might murder you? Are you afraid that if someone makes you mad you will just kill them? This is the ANTIS way of talking. We are more civil and I think we can talk about disagreeing with someone without it going straight to murder. We are talking about a rude knucklehead making off with a couple bucks of our brass. I'm not afraid to talk to someone or disagree with them off the range or on it because I know I'm not going to murder him for some brass nor do I transfer an irrational fear to them they will murder me. When you guys walk downrange to hang a target do you lock up all your weapons in your car? Why not? Some guy could just pick up your guns and shoot you! Do you have someone stand armed security while you shoot? You might hit a guys target by accident and he could kill you! I know I'm getting a little overboard but really folks. If we can't deal with each other civilly even in a few disagreements why would we expect people outside of our circles to trust us with guns either. I think we are letting their paranoia creep into our way of thinking here.

If I don't like the guy taking my brass I'll tell him. Will I shoot him over it, NO. I wouldn't even beat him up over it though I'm pretty capable in that department too. If he is bound and determined to have it he is going to take it. If it burns me up that bad about it I'll call the cops. That is what civil people like us do. If the guy was prone to murder me then the brass or what I say to him is irrelevant anyhow. Why would he kill me for a few bucks in brass instead of the hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of weapons I have with me? Or the $30,000 car I drove there? The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me.

Sam1911
February 18, 2013, 09:49 PM
Jon, I agree with you in almost all of your points there, except that NO, folks are NOT leaving firearms lying around unattended these days. There have indeed been enough folks killed at ranges when the lone stranger on the line with them picks up their guns, kills them, and leaves.

That happened here recently in PA. And, if you remember your history, that's how the famous Platt and Maddox picked up some of their weapons.

blaisenguns
February 18, 2013, 09:54 PM
OMG people would you please stop saying things like, " he might be armed and snap and shoot me"?!?!! For God's sake we of all people should know being armed and being a MURDERER are two totally different things. ANYONE you talk to could be armed, do you walk around at all times in fear that if you look at someone the wrong way they might murder you? Are you afraid that if someone makes you mad you will just kill them? This is the ANTIS way of talking. We are more civil and I think we can talk about disagreeing with someone without it going straight to murder. We are talking about a rude knucklehead making off with a couple bucks of our brass. I'm not afraid to talk to someone or disagree with them off the range or on it because I know I'm not going to murder him for some brass nor do I transfer an irrational fear to them they will murder me. When you guys walk downrange to hang a target do you lock up all your weapons in your car? Why not? Some guy could just pick up your guns and shoot you! Do you have someone stand armed security while you shoot? You might hit a guys target by accident and he could kill you! I know I'm getting a little overboard but really folks. If we can't deal with each other civilly even in a few disagreements why would we expect people outside of our circles to trust us with guns either. I think we are letting their paranoia creep into our way of thinking here.

Well I think you can agree there are a lot of weird people out there. This dudes behavior was a bit off, and he seemed somewhat aggressive in his attitude, (that is the feeling I get from the op anyhow). It does not matter if it is on the rang or not but that would get my spiddy senses tingling. We don't know if this guy is just a regular guy or some nut, so no matter what one should be cautious about this situation. Most people I run into on the range are perfectly pleasant nice people. This instance is not that case. On a range or not this should be dealt with delicately, or it may escalate. I feel that since the ops family was present he made a wiser choice then I likely would have and took the high road.

Ms_Dragon
February 18, 2013, 10:52 PM
At just under 6'5 and has a flat dead eyed stare that would pull up a bull someone would have to dislike life to try to pull that sort of thing on my guy.

limpingbear
February 18, 2013, 11:24 PM
brass catcher.....I was shooting at a range a few years ago that had the "If it hits the floor it belongs to the range" rule. Made my own brass catcher for shooting my kimber, and other than some dirty looks from some of the staff, I nevr had an issue.
Now as to the OP, I think you did the right thing. Life is short and somethings are not worth the elevated bloodpressure....

RTR_RTR
February 18, 2013, 11:26 PM
At just under 6'5 and has a flat dead eyed stare that would pull up a bull someone would have to dislike life to try to pull that sort of thing on my guy.


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQKHc2fJKZ4Yae3XdqAXkOuZbWaPzQrTKs_3Oll66J8sEkVbMvNQ

Ms_Dragon
February 18, 2013, 11:40 PM
Awww....don't hate me. I'm way too cute to be hated on.

RTR_RTR
February 19, 2013, 12:16 AM
I misread your name as Mr_Dragon and thought you were talking about yourself. Substantially less irritating post after this revelation

Ms_Dragon
February 19, 2013, 12:23 AM
Well RTR RTR, I'm pleased you're substantially less irritated now.

leadcounsel
February 19, 2013, 12:46 AM
The behavior presented is about on par with someone talking to oneself - ignoring social norms on this level is odd enough for me to avoid that person. A "pissing" contest at this point in my life, over a few dollars, is certainly not worth 1) my time, or 2) my health or life, or 3) a conversation with the cops or 4) hiring a lawyer.

I've accomplished enough in my life to not have something to 'prove' to anyone.

BulletArc47
February 19, 2013, 01:40 AM
I used to go this range a while back; it was when I first got into firearms. The last three times I had gone there the range was totally devoid of any customers, and while the the owner was bit up-tight and curt with me I still had a lot of fun.

On fourth time I went there were five people at the benches. This time the Owner came out with me, to check-up on everything I guess, he had never done that before so it took me bit off-guard. Anyway, I got my rifle my out and set my targets and ammo on the bench. One of the customers asked the Owner to accompany him downrange to appraise his groups at the 100 yard mark and decide whether they were respectable.

I sat my ammunition away form the rifle and laid it down with action open and pointed it towards a series of dirt mounds there were to the right of the range; everyone moved behind the the shooting line.

He was about 25 yards down when I leaned over the line to grab my targets. I didn't know how long it would take for him walk all the way down range, shoot-the-breeze with this guy and walk all the way back. As soon as I leaned over to grab my targets he happens to turn and see me. He was furious and called me out by first name to get way from the table, and he paced to the bench like he was about to fight me. I naturally apologized and explained that I just wanted my targets, he snatched them from my hands and angrily says to ask him next time, and to never get close to the table, especially when he's down range. Now needless to say I was very embarrassed and it soured the rest of my shooting session and experiences at that range. I went there a couple more times until he went private. He was, and probably still is, the only range 100 yard outdoor rifle range near to me. (Over forty miles away, god the things I do for firearms.:p)


Now I'm sure some might be inclined to agree with the Owner; that there was, and is, no excuse to get near the bench, or cross the shooting line and normally I would agree with them, but personally, I felt the owner just didn't like me. I was young, just a year and a half out of high school, and had long unkempt curly hair, and I was from the city, so maybe he made some fallacious judgments based on those observations that I would be irresponsible or something.


Anyway...I just can't help not to say it, what a jerk.:neener:

ColtPythonElite
February 19, 2013, 01:52 AM
Cool story, bro....but what's it got to do with brass theives?:D

BulletArc47
February 19, 2013, 02:11 AM
Cool story, bro....but what's it got to do with brass theives?

Nothing, lol. :uhoh:

Never dealt with brass thieves, but had my fair share experiences with range jerks, just wanted to share some.

Of course, I'm always scouring my in-door range for brass, and always asking people if I can take it.

gun addict
February 19, 2013, 02:11 AM
I coined and uses the term "brass vulture" quite frequently for people lie these:mad:

twice barrel
February 19, 2013, 08:38 AM
Bulletark47,

Looking back on it I'm sure you wished you'd have just waited to grab your targets. However from the information you provided I can tell you that the owner of a busy range that has a lock on the business and charges a fee to use the range should actually furnish inexpensive spotting scopes for each station. He certainly had no business walking downrange to evaluate another customer's target unless a cease-fire had been called and everyone else was also downrange changing or putting up targets.

If he is rude to you he'll be rude to others and perhaps someone else will be providing some competition in the near future.

Regards,

TB

Torian
February 19, 2013, 09:07 AM
I've had similar range experiences with brass thieves. They usually like to make up their own rules such as "if it hits the ground, it's up for grabs".

That's when I usually smile at them and say "I hope you enjoying reloading aluminum cases" and start shooting some blazer.

I've always carried (cocked and locked) when I go to the range. I'm leaving thousands of dollars of my weapons out in the open, and there have been a few fruitcakes known to frequent ranges that I go to.

As a rule these days, I only attend private ranges unless I have no other options.

rooter
February 19, 2013, 10:04 AM
but are you willing to get into an altercation over a piece of brass?

I might just have an accidental discharge in the direction of my brass....I'm "that" careless.

Sam1911
February 19, 2013, 10:26 AM
I might just have an accidental discharge in the direction of my brass....I'm "that" careless.Ha ha! Hooo hoo, boy, that is sure a good one! Haaa yeah... might accidentally shoot the ground near another range patron. Yup!

This is like the shooting trespassers theme we keep coming back to. Someone might commit a minor faux pas, bit of rudeness, or even a misdemeanor legal violation that I don't like, so I'll just go ahead and escalate to recklessness, endangerment, assault, or shoot, why not? Maybe manslaughter.

If this is a cute idea of a joke, that's not welcome here at THR.

If this is your idea of a proper way to solve a social problem? YOU are not welcome here at THR.

----

And we're done with this. If the question isn't answered well enough by now, throwing more absurd suggestions at it isn't going to help.

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