Watching the Australian PM


PDA






blaisenguns
February 17, 2013, 10:29 AM
I was watching the Australian Prime Minister on CNN, and I found what he had to say interesting. He said that they pushed their gun ban through "using public out cry" and political capital from winning an election with an "overwhelming majority" to "persuade" the many states, and people who were against his gun prohibition to give in. Sound familiar?

I just point this out so that we in this community realize that we are not out of the woods, and that whether we like it or not this can happen if we do not come together and fight it.

If you enjoyed reading about "Watching the Australian PM" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Sock Puppet
February 17, 2013, 10:38 AM
Very, very true.

JFrame
February 17, 2013, 11:39 AM
It's sad that a nation that has given us such legendary fictional icons as Crocodile Dundee and Mad Max has chosen to cut its collective sack off.

Let us not go that route...


.

Tommygunn
February 17, 2013, 11:47 AM
... such legendary fictional icons as Crocodile Dundee and Mad Max ... :what::rolleyes::what:

xwingband
February 17, 2013, 12:03 PM
Well...

-It was far from a large victory. 51% may be a majority, but something needs to change to let the 51% know that just because you "won" doesn't mean you get your way.
-"publc outcry" does not equate the same as feeling sorrow for the situation. You'd have to one calloused individual to not feel sadness at children dying, but the only people "outcrying" are those that wanted guns gone well before Newtown happened.

If they think a 51% presidential victory means they get to ram through something... good luck. Guns go across the political two-party system. I have a number of friends who are Obama supporters and extremely liberal that may not even own guns that believe it's an instrumental freedom. I hope they do try and ram something through and watch their congressional representation get sent home in the next election.

JFrame
February 17, 2013, 12:12 PM
:what::rolleyes::what:

http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/biggrin.gif

...The point being that a nation which seems to revel in such archetypal manly-male role models can succumb to such hand-wringingly emotional policies. :neener:


.

Tommygunn
February 17, 2013, 12:26 PM
Yup. No one's perfect.
Atleast Crocodile Dundee liked REAL KNIVES!! :D

JFrame
February 17, 2013, 12:28 PM
Yup. No one's perfect.
Atleast Crocodile Dundee liked REAL KNIVES!! :D


"THAT'S not a knife..." :D http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_doubleup.gif


.

blaisenguns
February 17, 2013, 12:34 PM
It was far from a large victory. 51% may be a majority, but something needs to change to let the 51% know that just because you "won" doesn't mean you get your way.
-"publc outcry" does not equate the same as feeling sorrow for the situation. You'd have to one calloused individual to not feel sadness at children dying, but the only people "outcrying" are those that wanted guns gone well before Newtown happened.

If they think a 51% presidential victory means they get to ram through something... good luck. Guns go across the political two-party system. I have a number of friends who are Obama supporters and extremely liberal that may not even own guns that believe it's an instrumental freedom. I hope they do try and ram something through and watch their congressional representation get sent home in the next election.

The point with the public outcry was making was they used a similar incident to garner support for their stupid draconian rules. And yes "Gun crime" probably has fallen by 59%, BUT what about crime overall?

With the 51% victory of Obama, real or perceived, this apparently gives him "political capital" (I have no idea what this is :scrutiny:) which he can aparantly use to get at least one thing through (:uhoh:).

Now I fully believe that WE (RKBA supporters) have a strong nationwide majority, however our majority can be undermined, ESPEACIALLY with the presidents Political machine. His people are insanely good at mobilizing people who support him (we saw this in the last two elections) so if he gets this sort of machine geared up for some type of AWB we will face an uphill battle against hoards of urbanized sheep.

GEM
February 17, 2013, 12:45 PM
The PM had a story in the NY Times where he said that gun bans could get passed because Australia didn't have a BOR and that was a good thing. It kept the courts from messing up needed restrictions on civil rights.

jamesbeat
February 17, 2013, 12:51 PM
:what::rolleyes::what:
Warhammer 40k?

barnbwt
February 17, 2013, 03:14 PM
With the 51% victory of Obama, real or perceived, this apparently gives him "political capital" (I have no idea what this is ) which he can aparantly use to get at least one thing through.

It seems at the swearing in, he was given a token "Good For One Major Policy Initiative," because our elections are apparently Chucky Cheese games, now :rolleyes:

No one seems to be paying attention that after spending all this supposed "political capital" the spenders pay a heavy toll ('10 elections after O'care, anyone?) because the mandate never existed in the first place. Gun control is meeting resistance for the very simple reason that "the people" are not that interested, despite the best efforts of our leaders.

TCB

tekarra
February 17, 2013, 06:02 PM
At least he was honest.

blaisenguns
February 17, 2013, 07:42 PM
Gun control is meeting resistance for the very simple reason that "the people" are not that interested, despite the best efforts of our leaders.

Don't forget the media. I was never one to bash the media before the last few years, but when I see major networks demonizing me and my lifestyle, and my hobby I get upset. This is nonsense, real journalism is dead.

Diamondback6
February 17, 2013, 08:00 PM
Warhammer 40k?
TG, you're OUTED, amigo. Wait 'til I tell all our buddies back at Gun Hub... *snicker*

--DB, unashamed Axis & Allies and Wings of War/Wings of Glory player, salivating over the upcoming Sails of Glory Napoleonic-era naval miniatures game

Derek Zeanah
February 17, 2013, 08:02 PM
Totally off-topic: when the Warhammer folks start litigating because they claim they own the term "space marine," it's time to find another franchise. And I like Abnett's books, too...

Alaska444
February 17, 2013, 08:04 PM
I was watching the Australian Prime Minister on CNN, and I found what he had to say interesting. He said that they pushed their gun ban through "using public out cry" and political capital from winning an election with an "overwhelming majority" to "persuade" the many states, and people who were against his gun prohibition to give in. Sound familiar?

I just point this out so that we in this community realize that we are not out of the woods, and that whether we like it or not this can happen if we do not come together and fight it.
Yes, Obummer has placed his war chest for elections into a war chest for political action he supports. I find this very disconcerting but that is the way of them in power today.

Queen_of_Thunder
February 17, 2013, 08:34 PM
If it was such a large victory thdn why is the House still Republican and thete are not enough democrats to fun the Senate. We still must stay in contact witb our reps to ensure they don't butcher the Bill of Rights.

jamesbeat
February 17, 2013, 08:47 PM
Don't forget the media. I was never one to bash the media before the last few years, but when I see major networks demonizing me and my lifestyle, and my hobby I get upset. This is nonsense, real journalism is dead.
+1
I'd say that from what I witnessed, the media in the UK was instrumental in getting handguns banned.
Even pro gun politicians kept their mouths shut, such was the media frenzy.
In esscence, being pro gun instantly meant that you wanted children to be shot dead in the eyes of the general public.

22-rimfire
February 17, 2013, 08:53 PM
I watched the interview and it was very friendly toward Howard's views. We have this pesky document called the Second Amendment. I don't believe Australia has such a document. Their constitution is based on British common law (as is the US Constitution). We know what happened in England concerning guns.

Australians lost a lot of freedom when they passed that gun control law that essentially outlawed semi-auto rifles, shotguns, and even pump shotguns.

jamesbeat
February 18, 2013, 12:01 AM
... We have this pesky document called the Second Amendment...

Not for long if the antis can help it...

Ignition Override
February 18, 2013, 12:31 AM
JFrame:
A few people have stated that the movie character Mick "Croc" Dundee was based on an actual Aussie, whose promotion of Australia inspired the movie.
Tragically, during the gun confiscation the guy refused to give his up, might have barricaded himself in a house and was killed.

Correct this for any mistaken impressions/memory.

krameranzac
February 18, 2013, 02:23 AM
Pay no attention to John Howard. He stated in media interviews that he hates guns. He is a classic white picket fence urbanite. The reason he got those laws through is that the Aussie parliamentary system allowed him to railroad them through. Your system of government and founding values are different and allow you to fight things like this.

Ms_Dragon
February 18, 2013, 03:22 AM
John Howard is a FORMER Australian Prime Minister.

And we are allowed to have shotguns here with the correct licensing, gun safes etc.
The other week I spent over 4 hours at the local shotgun club who have their own range.

I wonder if it would be ever possible to have a branch of the NRA started here in Australia.
The NRAA perhaps? *National Rifle Association Australia? Catchy huh?
Lawd knows we Australian gun owners could do with a strong ally.

Radagast
February 18, 2013, 05:23 AM
The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia is aligned with the NRA - their leaders occasionally meet.
You can become an NRA member directly if you want to support gun rights in the USA.

blaisenguns
February 18, 2013, 05:26 PM
John Howard is a FORMER Australian Prime Minister.

And we are allowed to have shotguns here with the correct licensing, gun safes etc.
The other week I spent over 4 hours at the local shotgun club who have their own range.

I wonder if it would be ever possible to have a branch of the NRA started here in Australia.
The NRAA perhaps? *National Rifle Association Australia? Catchy huh?
Lawd knows we Australian gun owners could do with a strong ally.

I agree. It would be nice for there to be a lobbying foundation for gun rights for our brothers and sisters in Australia and the UK.

Radagast
February 20, 2013, 08:39 PM
NRAA exists. It used to run the Citizens Military Forces - the militia training organization.
Then it was taken over by Fullbore / Palma shooters, In 1968 they refused to use the issue SLR for competitions as it was not as accurate as the old Lee Enfield. In 1969 the army started kicking them off of army ranges, but members remained exempt from State firearms laws.
In 1996 even that exemption was removed when as part of the gun ban Howard asked the chief of the army if the NRAA was of any value to the defense force and was told they were of zero value.
Now its a bunch of Fudds, most in their seventies. At least in NSW their only interest is in dog in the manger control of ranges and exclusion of other shooters. Its very much Class based, in the old British style.

Ms_Dragon
February 20, 2013, 08:52 PM
Sounds like it might be time to put the poor old things out to pasture and get some new blood into the organization.

blaisenguns
February 20, 2013, 08:57 PM
Sounds like it might be time to put the poor old things out to pasture and get some new blood into the organization.

That is all well and good, but I would not be terribly optimistic about getting those laws overturned.

HOOfan_1
February 20, 2013, 10:47 PM
I don't care if 99% of the people want gun control...it is still unconstitutional and a violation of rights....

Public opinion and outcry has been wrong many times in the past

Radagast
February 21, 2013, 07:38 PM
HOOfan 1:
We are taliking about a different country, Australia, that does not have a Bill of Rights.

Ms Dragon:
Not going to happen. There have been attempts in the past. Their organization is structured like the Chicago machine. the boss is always the same, he is 'co-opted', not elected, paid positions held by family members, etc.
I just ignore them. At least they are still shooting, even if they are of no value to the greater firearms community.

GEM
February 21, 2013, 07:50 PM
The ex-PM explicity stated that Australian gun control was possible as they had no BOR and he thought that was a good thing.

Google his inteview in the NY Times that I mentioned before.

HOOfan_1
February 21, 2013, 11:24 PM
HOOfan 1:
We are taliking about a different country, Australia, that does not have a Bill of

Yeah, but the gun grabbers in America are trying to leverage the success of the gun grabbers in Australia.

The numbers "supporting more gun control" that the antis throw out are bull hockey, and even if they could honestly site that a majority of people wanted more gun control, they still have no legs to stand on. A free country doesn't rob people of their rights to please the majority. We've fought that battle enough in this country...one would think that crap was behind us.

Radagast
February 22, 2013, 03:57 AM
HOOfan_1:
That crap will never be behind you. You will have to fight these battles for the rest of your life, and your children after you.

As an example, Gun control in Australia has waxed and waned since 1928 when handguns were first restricted. In 1929 the inner cities became the playgrounds of extortion gangs wielding cutthroat razors.

I went to my first pro-gun rally 25 years ago. We brought down a State govt. The defeated leader stated it would take a massacre in Tasmania to get uniform gun laws (confiscation) in Australia.
Eight years later a massacre in Tasmania by a psychiatric ward of the state was used as the impetus to enforce the proposed laws from 1988 on the nation. Make of that what you will.

In 2002 a shooting at Monash University by another psychiatric patient was used in an attempt to ban handguns. The Prime Minister stated he would 'ban handguns by Christmas'. We lost short barreled guns and full cap mags, but handguns can still be had.
In 2004 an attempt was made to ban lever action and pump action rifles. We stopped that before it was announced.
Every year new restrictions are floated by the Antis. Usually we manage to knock them back, in some cases we also manage to roll back the existing legislation a little.
Its an ongoing fight.

I've followed news from America on the subject since Florida went Shall Issue in 1987, in reality its been going on since at least the Sullivan Act in NY in 1911.

Those criminals that will suppress freedom if given any opportunity will always be with us. I count former Prime Minister John Howard as one. Disarming an entire nation was not his least crime against humanity. In 1988 he campaigned against and helped defeat a referendum that would have enshrined the right to freedom of religion, trial by jury and fair compensation for property taken by the govt. He is a fascist at heart.

The long march through the institutions has ensured that there will be, for the foreseeable future, a large portion of your ruling class that are indoctrinated with the idea that the underclass cannot be trusted with arms.

And it is a class, they intermarry, go to the same universities and are descended from other members of the ruling class, often going back to the kings of England. They wear the veneer of the Republic lightly and will go outside its bounds if they can. You cannot expect them to abide by the rules unless under constant pressure & constant publicly scrutiny.

So be willing to help apply that pressure for the rest of your life.

Sorry about the lecture. :)

blaisenguns
February 24, 2013, 11:14 AM
I don't care if 99% of the people want gun control...it is still unconstitutional and a violation of rights....

Public opinion and outcry has been wrong many times in the past


We are supposed to have protections for our rights in this country, but more and more they are being stepped on. Not just gun rights but privacy, speech, religion, due process etc. This country is supposed to be majority rules, unless it impedes the rights of the minority, and that is not the way we are going unfortunately.

Sorry about the lecture.

No sir don't be. What you said is the type of thing we need to hear. You folks do realize that Obama is leading "Letter Writing Parties" for gun control? He is using his grass roots machine to force the issue. We should be worried and should be doing what we can.

If you enjoyed reading about "Watching the Australian PM" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!