Help - Moving from PA to MD


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KRMoose
February 17, 2013, 07:45 PM
Hi everyone, I am a new member here so still feeling my way around. Nice site from what I can tell.

Anyway, my job is being moved from SW Pennsylvania to Maryland, NE of Baltimore. I was hoping someone might have some advice as to how to adjust to the different laws, specifically concealed-carry and mag limit. I am aware that MD laws are much more tyrannical, errr I mean restrictive, but just wondering if anyone has recently made the adjustment that can give me some tips so I don't want to pull my hair out or become an instant criminal.

Also, any recommendations on local sportsman's clubs?

Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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wojownik
February 17, 2013, 08:28 PM
I'm not going to offer many tips, as whatever I could offer may be made radically moot by legislation moving through the MD govt right now.

Anyways, I had a slightly difference experience - moved from NYC to MD about 20 years ago. So, MD back then was a virtual paradise by comparison. Concealed carry was a virtual impossibility then, and not sure if/how recent court decisions are changing things. Got collectors license, which helped with multiple firearms purchases.

Mag limits and the MD state restrictions on certain types of firearms can be a pain. If you have 20+ round mags already, you may be OK keeping them in your possession. But, once you're in MD, your not allowed to purchase, receive, sell or transfer them in state.

Your bigger worry would be what MD legislation may be coming down the pike, including outright ban of "assault" style weapons, gun registration, There's a ton of crap legislation floating around Annapolis right now. And the legislature has moved to closed-door secret hearings on the legislation. So much for the voice of the people ...

I really loved living in Maryland, but the politics there are pathetic.

Fleetman
February 17, 2013, 10:27 PM
I'm sorry you have to make the move.....we worked and lived in Maryland for 25 years, moved to Texas for three years and when we knew we were coming back to work in Maryland, chose Pennsylvania instead.....just couldn't stomach the archaic firearms attitudes and laws anymore. We have a 71 mile one-way commute to our workplace but, in our opinion, is worth every minute spent in the car (about 3- 3 1/2 hours per day round-trip times).

For our commute misery, we spoiled ourselves with a (over) 10 acre farmette and built our own range. License to Carry Firearms (LTCF) in Pa took two days for approval and we carry everywhere except Maryland.

If you can swing it and can handle the ride, look to Pa, Virginia, or West Virginia for your homestead.

If not, there's always retirement to look forward to....that and the fact Maryland is a beautiful State....it's a shame it's governed by a bunch of old-fashioned and incompetent boobs!

Either way.....good luck with your move!

Deltaboy
February 17, 2013, 10:30 PM
IMO Don't move to Maryland just drive.

22-rimfire
February 17, 2013, 11:09 PM
You can pretty much forget about getting a concealed carry permit. If it is possible, I would try to commute from PA.

josiewales
February 18, 2013, 08:19 AM
Sorry man, I live in PA and I have to say, there will be a BIG difference for you.

ATBackPackin
February 18, 2013, 08:37 AM
As someone who spent nearly his first thirty years of life ( minus the five in the military) in the state of Maryland, all I can say is that I do not envy you. Maryland is a beautiful state and has almost a little bit of everything to offer within a short drive. There is a lot of good things I could say about Maryland but it's politics, gun laws, and taxes would not be seen anywhere near that list.

I have now lived in SE Pennsylvania for almost ten years and have no regrets.

Good luck.
Shawn

Edited to add: If you have any specific questions, feel free to ask or PM.

Sav .250
February 18, 2013, 08:47 AM
I would suggest you get the facts not just opinions. There are publications
that have all the information on every state.
Plus,google .......your question. plenty of factual information there.

AlexanderA
February 18, 2013, 09:13 AM
Strangely enough, Maryland is not bad when it comes to owning machine guns. (The CLEO signoff authority is centralized in the State Police.)

Sam1911
February 18, 2013, 09:20 AM
I've lived large swaths of my life in MD, but since moving to PA (again) I will never go back.

MD IS poised to switch to a shall-issue CCW permit system -- sooner or later, but the legislative and court battle has not yet run its course and the MSP hasn't been allowed to send out any of the new permits yet. We're all still waiting on the 4th Circuit Court to issue a final ruling.to clear the road.

Unfortunately, MD is one of the states working VERY hard on some abysmal new bans and registration laws in the wake of Sandy Hook. There is a strong 2nd Amendment community in MD fighting against it, but them that holds the power are trying like mad to ram that down the citizens' throats right this moment.

...

If you're going to be in/near Baltimore for work, consider finding a home just up Rt. 83 into York or Lancaster counties. A little driving -vs.- a LOT of legislative pain.

md2lgyk
February 18, 2013, 09:59 AM
No way would I ever live in MD again. CCW is essentially unobtainable. They have an approved roster of handguns that can be sold in the state. If you are traveling and are caught with a handgun in your car (even unloaded and cased), you are breaking the law unless you can prove you are traveling to or from a shooting range.

InkEd
February 18, 2013, 10:15 AM
Wow! I didn't know that bit about just traveling with a firearm through Maryland. Does it apply to people with out of state CCW permits too? (Or what states' permits to the recognize?)

Sam1911
February 18, 2013, 10:27 AM
MD doesn't recognize any other state's permits. Unless you're a licensed armored car driver and you are on-duty at the time.

There's lots of info about transporting at http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/maryland.pdf

Sam1911
February 18, 2013, 10:33 AM
Here's MD law on transporting hanguns:

4-203. Wearing, carrying, or transporting handgun


(a) Prohibited. --

(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:

(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

(ii) wear, carry, or knowingly transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, in a vehicle traveling on a road or parking lot generally used by the public, highway, waterway, or airway of the State;

(iii) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph while on public school property in the State; or

(iv) violate item (i) or (ii) of this paragraph with the deliberate purpose of injuring or killing another person.

(2) There is a rebuttable presumption that a person who transports a handgun under paragraph (1)(ii) of this subsection transports the handgun knowingly.

(b) Exceptions. -- This section does not prohibit:

(1) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is on active assignment engaged in law enforcement, is authorized at the time and under the circumstances to wear, carry, or transport the handgun as part of the person's official equipment, and is:

(i) a law enforcement official of the United States, the State, or a county or city of the State;

(ii) a member of the armed forces of the United States or of the National Guard on duty or traveling to or from duty;

(iii) a law enforcement official of another state or subdivision of another state temporarily in this State on official business;

(iv) a correctional officer or warden of a correctional facility in the State;

(v) a sheriff or full-time assistant or deputy sheriff of the State; or

(vi) a temporary or part-time sheriff's deputy;

(2) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person to whom a permit to wear, carry, or transport the handgun has been issued under Title 5, Subtitle 3 of the Public Safety Article;

(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

(7) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a supervisory employee:

(i) in the course of employment;

(ii) within the confines of the business establishment in which the supervisory employee is employed; and

(iii) when so authorized by the owner or manager of the business establishment;

(8) the carrying or transporting of a signal pistol or other visual distress signal approved by the United States Coast Guard in a vessel on the waterways of the State or, if the signal pistol or other visual distress signal is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case, in a vehicle; or

(9) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person who is carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the handgun, if:

(i) the handgun is unloaded;

(ii) the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the handgun is being transported in accordance with the court order; and

(iii) the person transports the handgun directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station.

(c) Penalty. --

(1) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to the penalties provided in this subsection.

(2) If the person has not previously been convicted under this section, 4-204 of this subtitle, or 4-101 or 4-102 of this title:

(i) except as provided in item (ii) of this paragraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 30 days and not exceeding 3 years or a fine of not less than $ 250 and not exceeding $ 2,500 or both; or

(ii) if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person shall be sentenced to imprisonment for not less than 90 days.

(3) (i) If the person has previously been convicted once under this section, 4-204 of this subtitle, or 4-101 or 4-102 of this title:

1. except as provided in item 2 of this subparagraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 1 year and not exceeding 10 years; or

2. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 3 years and not exceeding 10 years.

(ii) The court may not impose less than the applicable minimum sentence provided under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph.

(4) (i) If the person has previously been convicted more than once under this section, 4-204 of this subtitle, or 4-101 or 4-102 of this title, or of any combination of these crimes:

1. except as provided in item 2 of this subparagraph, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 3 years and not exceeding 10 years; or

2. A. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iii) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 5 years and not exceeding 10 years; or

B. if the person violates subsection (a)(1)(iv) of this section, the person is subject to imprisonment for not less than 5 years and not exceeding 10 years.

(ii) The court may not impose less than the applicable minimum sentence provided under subparagraph (i) of this paragraph.

wbwanzer
February 18, 2013, 10:49 AM
You will not be able to carry in MD. Stay in southern PA if you can (I83 corridor). Right above the MD/PA line is a club called Delta Peachbottom Fish and Game in the Delta Peachbottom area. I belong to that one and like it there. If you move to that area or northern Maryland, let me know and I'll take you to the Delta club to see if you like it. There is also a Southern Lancaster County Farmer Sportsman's Association which has a nice facility.

Best advice is to stay in Pa and commute, unless you'll be working in southern Maryland or Eastern shore.

Zeke/PA
February 18, 2013, 11:38 AM
Just a word of caution!
PA Concealed Carry Permits are NOT honored in Delaware.

jamesb
February 18, 2013, 12:53 PM
My job was BRAC'd from VA to Aberdeen, MD 2 years ago. I chose to live in PA and drive. Depending on where your job is in MD, PA might be closer than you think. I live in Delta, Pa and the back entrance to my neighborhood is practically MD. I also belong to DPBFNG and shoot over at SLCFSA, both are good clubs.

KRMoose
February 19, 2013, 07:47 PM
Wow. Thanks for all of the responses. Definitely glad I posted. Somehow I'll get through it, it's just tough to give up a decent job these days. I have a few months to prepare so maybe something will come along before I have to move.

Another question for those that are familiar with the area. I'm trying to be somewhat discreet about specifics, but I will be working in the area of Martin State airport. I actually considered the York area, but regardless of the state I choose, would traffic be better coming south on 83 and heading east on 695, or coming south on 95 and taking whatever combination of smaller routes when possible?

Thanks again.

Fleetman
February 19, 2013, 08:00 PM
I work near Glen Burnie....car pool? My wife and I head down at 4:45AM and head back up at 5PM.

Seriously, there is a commuter-served commuter van (I think) called Star Transport or something along those lines that serve commuters living in Pa to most business destinations in Md. When we first moved back, we rented in Loganville Pa and it was a pretty easy one-hour drive. We live a little further out but we don't hit the commuter "idiots" for about 30 minutes or so....y'know the type, 10mph less than the speed limit and always slowing down on hills and curves....I've tried to tell a few of them that it was discovered the earth was in fact round and they weren't going to drive off the edge. They're still pretty cautious though!

3GunEric
February 19, 2013, 08:54 PM
Have been moving south my entire life. PA-DEL-MD and finally made it WV. Do not move to MD if you are at concerned about gun rights (or any rights.) The political economic environment is toxic.

In WV CC Permit a breeze, law enforcement supportive, gun culture thriving!

The largest East Coast shooting complex is 20 miles from my home at Peacemaker National Training Center. http://peacemakernational.com/

Fleetman
February 20, 2013, 05:25 AM
I83 is a much easier commute than I95 IMO and from Martin State (I do a lot of business at that airport) you can travel back roads to I83 without too much bother. As I posted earlier, Shrewsbury (4 miles from State line), New Freedom (6 miles), Glen Rock (10 miles), Loganville (12 miles) are all good places to live and actually pretty close (relatively speaking) to where you'll be working. Besides, you get a WHOLE bunch more house and land in Pa compared to Maryland but real estate taxes (actually school taxes) are very high.....we purchased a little over ten acres to qualify for Pa's Clean and Green program which reduced taxes about 60%.

Anyway, good luck on your move and let us know where you end up!

SouthernBoy
February 20, 2013, 09:18 AM
Maryland is essentially driven by two major counties: Baltimore and Montgomery. These counties are VERY liberal and VERY anti-gun which bodes ill for many of the other folks who live in that state. I live in Virginia which is worlds apart from the mentality of Maryland... what a difference a river makes.

If you can avoid living in Maryland, do it for your own sanity. Have you considered trying to find a position here in Virginia? If you are in the technical fields, there are jobs available.

KRMoose
February 23, 2013, 05:48 PM
I don't know yet what my company is going to offer to make the move, but I'd likely be committing to at least a year there until I can leave without some sort of penalty. Until then I am open to anything that makes sense for my family. My company has operations in Virgina, so I could accept the relocation package then transfer elsewhere if the opportunity presented itself. It really is a good company to work for and I'd only leave if the right offer came along.

Fleetman
February 23, 2013, 06:03 PM
I certainly understand staying with your current employer....jobs are hard enough to come by nowadays as it is.

We (both of us) were made offers to return to our former employer that is based in Maryland but we made the decision to move to Pa as I said earlier. The long commute does get old very quickly (ours is 71 miles one-way) and throw in an accident, rain, or worse, snow, and the typical 90 minutes can easily exceed 2-1/2 hours. We have stayed overnight in Maryland a few times but once you figure dinner and a hotel, that itself can top $125. We chose to spoil ourselves instead with a luxury car that is comfortable for the butt-time and gets good fuel mileage, plus, we now work four ten-hour days that eases the commute pain even more.

Living in Maryland isn't so bad but it's another world compared to where you're moving from. We have a fair amount of family that live in Md (outlaws from her side) but we visit only when we have to otherwise they come see us....plus the grandkids all enjoy shooting on our range.....and the Pa Pumpkin Carvin' every year is a tradition they love (carving jack-o-lanterns with .22LR handguns....much fun!)

As said, good luck with your move and where you end up....Pa, Va, or WVA are all GREAT places!

leadcounsel
February 23, 2013, 06:10 PM
Jobs come and go.

Freedoms are something to cherish.

People died for freedoms. Certainly you can sacrifice a job and get a different one in a free state.

Move once. Move to a free state. I would NEVER voluntarily move to a state like MD, and would move out as soon as possible if I lived there.

This isn't just about you... but living in an anti gun liberal state means your girlfriends and wife will come from that pool of people. Your kids friends and schools. Colleges. Their future spouses and relatives... all from that mentality and pool of liberals. Heck no!

I know people, many people, who are locked into a liberal anti-gun state due to family and jobs and property and they are miserable there but just can't get out. Don't be that person.

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