Switching from H335 to W748


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Jhass
February 17, 2013, 08:00 PM
Recently I had to change my powder and grain of bullet I use for coyote hunting due to the recent shortage.

I was wondering what people who haved used both powders thought about them.

Also I was wondering the makeup they needed to match performance in their specific rifle.

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Walkalong
February 17, 2013, 08:03 PM
They are both excellent in .223, if that is what caliber you are shooting. 748 is a touch slower.

SSN Vet
February 17, 2013, 09:12 PM
it's said that W748 is temp sensitive when it's really cold.

GLOOB
February 17, 2013, 09:36 PM
I suspect W748 and BLC-2 might be the same thing. But that's just a wild guess.

As big the difference on the burn rate charts, I ended up using very similar charge weights of H335 and W748 in my 223. Shot and cycled fine. I'd definitely buy W748, if it was available.

Jhass
February 17, 2013, 09:49 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys.

I heard temps could play into pressures on the min/max sides of the load. 26 gr w748 matchs 24.8 h335 on velocity.

It is a .223 rifle I am loading for.

50 gr projectile

rg1
February 17, 2013, 10:30 PM
I've used a lot of both in a bolt rifle and AR's with 50 gr. and 55 grain bullets. H335 gives greater velocity without running into pressure issues. Win 748 is a good powder when in my opinion limited to 26.5 grains with 55 grain bullets. Higher than that gives pressure signs in hot summertime temperatures especially in my bolt action rifle. I've got good groups with both powders but posted load data gives me about 150 fps less than expected with 748. My accuracy load with Win 748 and 50 grain V-Max bullets is only 26.4 grains which is a mild load.

ArchAngelCD
February 18, 2013, 12:29 AM
H335/WC844 is the small NATO cartridge powder and BL-C(2)/WC846 is the big NATO cartridge powder but many reloaders used BL-C(2) for both and it works very well. Since W748 is probably the same powder as BL-C(2) I see no reason why you won't get a good results using it. I know several reloaders who use W748 in the .223/5.56mm and are extremely happy with the results. Like said above it is temperature sensitive.

Lennyjoe
February 18, 2013, 12:38 AM
H335 is my favorite for .223 and also in my 6.8 SPC

FROGO207
February 18, 2013, 08:05 AM
It works well for me but I do not use it when extremely cold. Just work up a load that works and I bet you find it will work just fine.

RustyFN
February 18, 2013, 05:26 PM
I have used BLC-2, Varget, H-335 and W748 with 55 and 62 grain bullets in my 16" AR with 1:9 twist. I like H335 best and my second choice would be W748. H-335 is clean and accurate for me.

Lj1941
February 18, 2013, 05:52 PM
748 has workedfine for me in several different. 223's both in bolt Savage model 11 and and a Mini 14 semi.

matrem
February 18, 2013, 06:56 PM
748 was my original favorite powder for .223, at least until experimenting with 335.
That being said, and having more 748 currently on my "shelf" than 335, I'm not going to lose much dumping the WW rather than the H.
I can't speak to the temperature sensitivity of 748 (no chrono back then), but I'd certainly trust those folks on this thread that said to.

GooseGestapo
February 19, 2013, 08:52 AM
Win748 and BLC2 are the same powder.
However, you will see a lot of contradictory data. This is because both powders have been made for so long, and there has been some lot-to-lot variation.
Some burn almost as fast as H335, some almost as slow as H380.

If you are using it in cold climate, it is recommended you use a magnum primer.
If in hot climates, use a standard and drop charges 1.0gr or so....

I've always gotten better accuracy with BlC2 than H335 in the half dozen different rifles I've fired it from. However, it's with charges that approach max. Typically I load 26.9gr of BLC2 and a 55gr bullet as that's what my measure throws. With accurate bullets and rifles, it's always worked very well for me.... Velocities run ~3,000fps from 18.5"bbl and 3,300 from 24" bbl.

The advantage of H335 is that max is about 25.3gr w/55gr bullet so you use a little less for a few more rounds per pound of powder. However, the H335 tops out at about 3,200fps, or 100fps or so less than the slower burning BLC2.

Jhass
February 23, 2013, 11:36 PM
After my latter testing today, I like w748. It isn't as loud as h335, shot good groups, and the accurate charge was comparable.

25 gr with a 50 gr vmax was my best group, with one bullet hole spliting the one next to it in half.

I would like to stick with what I know ,but I will take what I can get.

GLOOB
February 24, 2013, 12:15 AM
The advantage of H335 is that max is about 25.3gr w/55gr bullet so you use a little less for a few more rounds per pound of powder. However, the H335 tops out at about 3,200fps, or 100fps or so less than the slower burning BLC2.
This is interesting. I have read that W846 (BL-C2) was the original powder for military 223 and 308. But a batch of 223 ammo was rejected for failing to meet specs. The manufacturer was not able to meet the specified 3300 fps while remaining under the max pressure with the current W846. That's when W844 (H335) was born; it was basically select batches of W846 that tested higher in concentration of a particular component.

So I woulda thought H335 would give higher velocites with 55 gr bullets. Maybe it does, but only at NATO pressures, which are a bit higher than 223 SAAMI.

RhinoDefense
February 24, 2013, 12:38 AM
Win748 and BLC2 are the same powder.
That is completely false. They are not the same powder.

.223 69gr SMK
24.5gr W748 is 51.5K CUP max load
24.5gr BLC(2) is 40.6K CUP starting load

All else equal, same bullet and charge, the W748 MAX load of 24.5gr is almost 10K CUP higher in pressure than the START load of an equal 24.5gr of BLC(2). If they were the same powder, the numbers wouldn't have that spread, they would be the same.

How can the powder charge be the same, but one with one powder is max load and one with the other powder is the start load with a nearly 10K CUP pressure difference? In order to nearly equal (1400 CUP difference) the max pressure of the BLC(2) load, it's a full two grains more than the W748 max load.

They are not the same powder. Stop spreading this rumor.

oldpapps
February 24, 2013, 10:43 AM
Not the same round but close (with H335).

In the mid 60's I was loading for a Rem 700 in .222 Rem. (Nice rifle, good loads, long sold.)
I worked with IMR4895 (too small of case capacity - compressed powder) and soon moved on. I tried 3031 and H335 and H380 (this was over a 10/12 year span) and my preferred powder, BLC(2). I don't remember just why I moved from one to the next, so there must not have been a problem. Most likely availability or cost. The .222 Rem got sold off and I started using 748 (.30 cal stuff). Eventually I returned to the little guns, only this time it/they are/were .223/5.56 and I just continued using 748.

I have had good results with 748 in .223/5.56 loads with 45/50/52/55 grain bullets. For heavy weights, I like H4895. I have tried but don't like varget.

I currently load 50 grain, 55 grain, those dumb 62 grain steel cores and a few 75 grain bullets. 748 do well with the first 2 and as well as any other with the 62s. H4895 does well with those 75s.
If I were to switch from 748, I would have no problem moving to BLC(2) or H335 or H380.

I think that after you build your loads to match your weapon/s, you will be pleased with 748. I can't say that it is better or worse than H335. Reports of temperature sensitivity, don't know. I'm old and broken. It's 21 degrees with 10 inches of snow on the ground and I don't go outside. I know that I am more temperature sensitive.

bluetopper
February 24, 2013, 11:09 AM
Out of my short barreled 223 Contender handgun 335 powder is much louder than 748..........for whatever that is worth.:scrutiny:

oldpapps
February 24, 2013, 11:50 AM
parisite,

Your volume comparison is more logical than my comparison as H335 is a little slower than 748.

My used of varget compared to 748, same bullet at about the same velocity, produced an obvious increase of concussion. This is backwards to what I expected. 748 is slower than varget. Reason would dictated that slower would be closer to the burn as the bullet departed the barrel. Yet, my daughter even complained about how much louder the varget loads sounded.
This was from the same 16 inch barreled M4 type weapon (on the same day, just a change of mags).

Eb1
February 24, 2013, 12:25 PM
I like H335 with 75 grain A-MAX. Currently loading BLC-2 in .303 British and 170 grain 30-30 loads.

H335 is great for 110 grain HP in the 30-30, but be aware that a fire breathing dragon will appear at the muzzle of a 30-30 case full of H335 and a 110 gr hp.

H4895 great powder for .233 all size bullets
H335 I have had great success with all size bullets
BLC-2 never loaded .223 with it.

Currently loading H4895 and RL-15 for 69 SMK and 75 Match HPBT.

I have heard good things about 748, but not with bullets over 55 grains in .223. It is hard to beat H335 in that .223 case. I use wolf magnum primers in .223 for what it is worth.

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