With all the new reloaders...


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ShortFatHokie
February 17, 2013, 09:10 PM
Is anyone else concerned about the well-being of any of the new reloaders???

Seems like a lot of folks are jumping in without checking the water first...ie. reading several reloading manuals, getting the advice and tutelage of experienced reloaders, not properly following safe reloading etiquette, etc...

I fear that several of them may blow off some fingers in their attempts to circumvent safety.

Anyone else feel this way or am I concerned for their well-being for no reason?

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Fire_Moose
February 17, 2013, 09:20 PM
If someone is going to mess with massive pressures, hot gasses, and combustions without learning first, go for it. I try not to go to public ranges and that's one reason why, who knows what the Guy next to you is shooting.

The more reloaders who blow emselves up or lose fingers, the more components for me.

Sent from my CZ85 Combat

returningfire
February 17, 2013, 09:48 PM
We all had to learn sometime and somehow. These new guys have to learn by doing.

rcmodel
February 17, 2013, 09:57 PM
The more reloaders who blow emselves up or lose fingers, the more components for me.Very short-sighted, and I hope it was meant to be funny.

The more bad press reloading gets?
The more law makers will want to put their sticky finger prints all over it with new laws.

Right now, we reloaders are flying at tree-top level, under the radar.

A few reloading accidents like that make the news, and we won't be.

And yes, I have seen a big uptick in new reloaders on THR in the last year, asking less then basic questions they should never need to ask.
If they had owned & read one chapter of one reloading manual while setting on the throne in the bathroom every morning before work that is.

It is troubling to me too!

rc

maxyedor
February 17, 2013, 09:58 PM
I've yet to see any surge in reloading, only a surge in reloading component sales. Seems that people are stocking up on parts, but not actually making ammo out of those parts.

That said, I do worry about most of the panic reloaders if they ever actually load and shoot their own ammo. I spend countless hours reading before I loaded some mouse-fart 9mm, and slowly worked up to rifles and magnums. Seems most of these guys just want to load hot rifle ammo and be done with it, not the way you should start IMHO.

GT1
February 17, 2013, 09:59 PM
It is really picking up in the last month now that factory ammo is scarce in many areas of the nation. All one can do is try to head off trouble for them when they show up here or other forums.

presspuller
February 17, 2013, 10:08 PM
I guess reloading is no different that any other activity. I have seen bunches of people driving an automobile that had no business being behind the wheel. The same with running a chainsaw or peeling an apple. Somehow the majority get by on pure dumb luck.

cowtownup
February 17, 2013, 10:18 PM
I'm a new guy and I obviously feel like I got in at the wrong time, but I try to be very cautious with this stuff.. The closest call I've had so far is not detecting a split case until I was in the priming process.. I couldn't believe I didn't notice that before.. I'm sure everybody has there own way of doing things, but I like prepping all my brass to just before priming stage... That way, when I get ready to load I count out a 50 pc tray, then prime, flare, charge and seat in one session... Anyhow, I'm try to check and double check what I'm doing while I'm reloading and I never go out and reload after I've been drinking or if I'm tired... Its just not worth the risk IMO.. Thats not to say that I might double charge one tomorrow, but I'm sure gonna try my best not to....

KansasSasquatch
February 17, 2013, 10:20 PM
I worry about some of the people I see posting questions here and other places.....and I'm only been reloading about a year.

GLOOB
February 17, 2013, 10:25 PM
The closest call I've had so far is not detecting a split case until I was in the priming process.. I couldn't believe I didn't notice that before
Not a big deal at all. I don't even look for split cases. You'll feel them when expanding or when seating.

No matter how many manuals you read, or don't read, the most common thing that'll bite you is something you can't read in a book. It's the double charge. The squib load. Calibrating or reading the scale wrong. Grabbing the wrong powder. Or the wrong weight bullet.

Manuals can't teach you how to not make mistakes. The first time I read a manual, I was astonished at how little I learned. Basically nothing. Total yawn fest. If you're interested in reloading, and you have an internet connection, everything that is in a manual will be discussed and dissected to death on a regular basis on forums like these.

witchhunter
February 17, 2013, 10:29 PM
A good friend of mine just got hooked on shooting prairie dogs with me last year. He was a non shooter until then, he now owns a .22-250, .223 and a .204. I coach him on the phone on how to use his new reloading set up. He lives 400 miles away. He calls me 4 times a night! I told him to keep a loading manual in the "library" so he can read a little every day, there is so much to learn. Today he called while I was Fly fishing......I told him he had to look it up, or wait until I got home. He was reading Lymans ABC's when I spoke to him tonight, on the john...

JRWhit
February 17, 2013, 10:38 PM
I suppose I'm not one to talk to much as I've been reloading for a total of maybe 8 months. It was something I had been looking into for a long time. At times I may have been the one to ask a stupid question or two, but I have to say that I too have been nervous about the latest rush. Knowing how much reading I did getting started, and then rereading, I'm very concerned over what was bought.
What concerns me is how all of the powders were completely wiped out. This leads me to believe that alot of it was rashly nabbed from the shelf with out consideration or understanding of what it's specific use is for. There is at least some peace of mind, all the manuals were picked up too. I would imagine however that there may be many patrons that have 9mm brass, 45cal bullets, large rifle primers, and whatever misc powder happened to be on the shelf at the time.

holdencm9
February 17, 2013, 10:46 PM
I am pretty new too, and I can't believe how much I have learned from this forum already. I would say I did a fair amount of reading beforehand, including the ABC's of Reloading, the Hornady manual, and also read THR a lot and watched videos for my specific press. Sometimes it helps to see it in action, but at some point you just have to get going and do it. My first batch, I checked and re-checked every dimension and weight on every case. I've probably asked some dumb questions before, but then there are some threads that I even knew the answer before I ever started reloading, and I think to myself, wow, that's beyond basic.

However, that said...I'd be more worried about the people NOT on THR asking the simple questions. Like they say, there are no dumb questions, just dumb people for not asking the questions.

I think in another thread someone mentioned a brother-in-law who filled up more powder in the case just because "there was a lot of room left over."

ShortFatHokie
February 17, 2013, 10:50 PM
I admit, I've only been reloading for two years and I'm still learning new things everyday. I consider myself not much more than an experienced newbie to reloading.

But, before I even bought the first piece of reloading equipment, I purchased two reloading manuals (Lyman's and Lee) and read/study both religiously, bought a reloading DVD and watched it multiple times, and read many, many posts on reloading forums, plus got some "hands on" experience reloading under the watchful eye of someone with 40+ years of reloading experience...this was for about one year before I bought a press and dies.

Seems like many of the new reloaders want instant gratification, skipping many of the basic principles and lots of safety measures, and have jumped right into the deep end without a life jacket. I fear that there will be a significant number of unnecessary mishaps because they haven't taken the time to properly learn how to reload safely.

I guess I'm just "overly cautious"....

9w1911
February 17, 2013, 10:52 PM
I feel you have to have a natural curiosity to hand load. I do not understand how you can just jump in head first into reloading? I admit I see what people do to cases, primers, etc and I dont get that either. I have seen other reloads and I always want to ask how do you expect that to feed? but i dont. You have to have pride in what you do, if the rest of your life sucks and you fail at it, make sure the one good thing you do is reload perfectly. Also some people do not have the right mix of technical skill with attention to detail. It is ok to just be a beginner, in many aspects of this you will always be learning, get a new caliber and boom youre a beginner, again. Thats the greatest part of this you can always learn something.

Walkalong
February 17, 2013, 10:57 PM
New reloaders are like new anything else. Most will be careful and read all they can find on the how to's and safety warnings, and then there are a few who will just jump in without doing any, or very little of that. All we can do is help all we can.

Yes, it would be nice if they would all, not just most, read their newly purchased reloading manuals.

rcmodel
February 17, 2013, 10:58 PM
And at least enough Mechanical Aptitude to instinctively know how to unscrew the lid off a screw-top beer bottle without reading the owners manual first.

Or asking for Internet help to ask which way it unscrews!! :D

rc

Duckdog
February 17, 2013, 11:13 PM
I've been watching the posts, too, and have often times just shook my head. I think there's lots of people that have zero issues figuring out reloading. I've been at it many, many years and there was no one around to show me. But with the questions I am seeing, your dead on that even just reading the die instrictions in a set of Lee dies would answer them, let alone a good reloading book.

I am glad to see more people involved in this hobby, because I think indirectly, if the reloading market makes up a larger part of the shooting market as a whole, the companies that are making components will continue to ramp up their production for the long term with increased tooling and manpower. That should help drive prices down in the long term as well.





\\\

blue32
February 17, 2013, 11:24 PM
I have found that explaining the wide variety of components and tools scares away most. Coworkers ask me about it and are bewildered at the amount of time that goes into reloading. Most "just want some ammo" and "don't want to put a lot of time into it."

I try to give an unbiased view about prep and the books behind the cartridges. I always direct potential reloaders to a bunch of manuals and literature. The ones who want nothing more than cheap ammo usually drop out at that point. All of my guidance starts and ends with RTFM. If they can't do that I tell them to save their money for factory rounds.

dsm
February 17, 2013, 11:32 PM
They have to start somewhere. Hands on is the best way to learn. I started in 1990 when I was 17. I read several manuals and had a shop owner help me and was very patient with all my questions. I jumped right in with a RCBS special 5 kit and loaded for my. 223 XP-100. Never had a problem. Still at it stronger than ever with every gadget under the sun, LOL.

gamestalker
February 17, 2013, 11:33 PM
I'm on the same page as you are ShortFatHokie and have been noticing a big increase in new reloaders in recent months. That is a good thing in terms of a growing interest the hobby. But I've been very concerned too, mostly because of the type of questions, and how they have been posed indicates that many of these new reloaders are not taking the necessary time to read the books. It's one thing to ask about OAL, or how to know when a primer is seated deep enough. But when so many are asking for load data, and especially for data regarding a powder that would certainly be in any book for that particular cartridge, I get more than just a feeling that they are attempting to start reloading without having bought and studied a single instructional reloading book. And many have problems understanding the basic process of resizing a cartridge, or how to adjust the die, because they aren't even taking the time to read the instructions that came with the die set. Myself and a number of other long time reloaders started this hobby when all that was available was a book, or the valuable encounter with an experienced reloader to take us under their wing.

In short, it seems that many, not all, but many are simply trying to short cut the safety and time tested procedures of doing it the right way. I worked in the guns and reloading industry for several years and saw a good number of too proud to ask, and too impatient to study, individuals walking through the door holding firearms that had been blown to pieces with serious wounds on their faces and hands, trying to blame us, the staff, for selling them inferior components or firearms. And one of the most bothersome aspects to me was that, before any of these folks walked out the door, we would offer them at no cost, a basics to hand loading lesson. And we always did our best to get them to buy an instructional video. But most would simply say, "Oh, I've got this, it's not brain surgery". Deadly and destructive pride!

GS

Lost Sheep
February 17, 2013, 11:37 PM
Is anyone else concerned about the well-being of any of the new reloaders???

Seems like a lot of folks are jumping in without checking the water first...ie. reading several reloading manuals, getting the advice and tutelage of experienced reloaders, not properly following safe reloading etiquette, etc...

I fear that several of them may blow off some fingers in their attempts to circumvent safety.

Anyone else feel this way or am I concerned for their well-being for no reason?
You are concerned for good reason. I know of one new loader who damaged his gun within his first 100 rounds. We still have not figured out what went wrong but we are giving him the best advice we can.

If you have any advice about what we can do to be better internet mentors, please advise. I worry about my own reloading habits, so am doubly concerned about someone whose operation I cannot watch.

My mentoring process consisted of 6 rounds. The guy who sold me my gear narrated while he loaded 3 and I watched, then had me load 3 while he watched. From there it was "The ABC's of Reloading" and a Lyman manual. I have learned more since discovering these forums on the internet than in all the 30 years before, but with caution and reading I have not damaged me or my guns.

I believe the advice I give (and the advice I have seen from 98% of the postings I see) are as good as it can get on the internet. But I am always open for improvement.

Thanks for reading and for your concerns.

Lost Sheep

Certaindeaf
February 18, 2013, 12:06 AM
I fear more for about any soul that buys a 300 pound 170hp brand new $8000 motorbike that has the same performance characteristics of a formula one race car.. how hard can it be!? knock on wood

hipoint
February 18, 2013, 12:18 AM
I'm a new reloader, however not a panic buy reloader... I had been on the fence for a while, then just by chance during all this mess someone offered me a nice kit for a ridiculously cheap price, now here I am ;-)

Not all of us are noob fools, some of us are here seeking all kinds of advice and bugging the heck out of you folks. I now have everything that I "need" to start, yet have not even set up my press. I'm honestly waiting for someone local to show me the ropes, I've read a few manuals now but nothing is as good as experience and hands on training... I can read all I want to about how to do this, and I might or might not get it right, but seeing a correct crimp in person beside an incorrect crimp would be super helpful as well as seeing the mechanics of acutally using the dang press. Books are good, real training is best in my opinion.

I wish there were more kind hearted people locally like there are on this forum, you folks have been great!

Even as a noob, I share RCmodel's concerns, a few fools can draw alot of unwanted attention. My advice to all the knowledgeable people out there is just try to advise us noobs without talking down to us too much, it's a big turn off and at that point people will quit asking "stupid questions" and start assuming things. Maybe if someone is asking questions and you trust them enough to invite them into your home/shop offer to bring them over and give 'em a little training.

GT1
February 18, 2013, 12:19 AM
I fear more for about any soul that buys a 300 pound 170hp brand new $8000 motorbike that has the same performance characteristics of a formula one race car.. how hard can it be!?
Don't forget the tanktop, shorts, sandals, and no helmet. Yup.

Certaindeaf
February 18, 2013, 12:22 AM
Yep and it ain't no racetrack with wide gravel runout everywhere. You can't be too careful about some things.

rcmodel
February 18, 2013, 12:39 AM
My advice to all the knowledgeable people out there is just try to advise us noobs without talking down to us too much,I think most of the people on THR already do that.

I know I have always tried really hard to answer the most basic questions without belittling the person who needs an answer.

But sometimes, my patience starts to wear thin after the 15'th new member in a month asking:

"What is the Most Accurate MAX load for my .300 Lounden Boomer Mangle'm rifle I just got for 1,500 yard deer hunting?

I have some Hercules Bullseye in a rusty can, some old Alcan powder in a paper bag, Lg primers in an unmarked primer flipper with tape on it, and some old green bullets in a box my grandfather left me in his will.
These have to shoot less then 1/2 MOA at 1,000 yards, at least.
What is the most accurate MAX +P load I need to load these with?"
I don't have time to play around, so give me your MAX load for my rifle that is most accurate.

Oh! Can I load 3" buckshot bullets for my Shotty with the same stuff??

Maybe not that exactly, but pretty close on almost a daily basis anymore!!

It wears on your patience after a while I TELL YA!!!!! :banghead:

rc

Certaindeaf
February 18, 2013, 12:46 AM
There's been multiples a day where I'm going (to myself) "stop!". But then RC sidles up and gives the good stuff.

TenDriver
February 18, 2013, 02:19 AM
Learn by doing. That's about the only way knowledge penetrates my skull. Second method is watching it be done.

I understand your concern. I'm one of those guys who's posted some pictures, asked a bunch of questions (not load data - book only for me). I don't know local folks who I can spend much time talking to asking questions, so you guys are it. Some of those questions are going to be seemingly stupid ones, but I'd rather get a funny look through a computer than blow something up.

blarby
February 18, 2013, 02:36 AM
Is anyone else concerned about the well-being of any of the new reloaders???

Very much so.

I think this is why we need to provide the most accurate and concise information possible.

I'll leave my rant about n00bs and progressive reloading presses in the past- it can be searched for if you really need it- but thats my second serious concern.

I think we can help massage the learning curve by answering questions honestly and sincerely- and providing as much clarity and detail as possible.

However, other than finding a way to mandate that everyone read the stickies, and pickup a paper manual or two before buying any tools, there isn't much we can do other than offer support.

We aren't the reloading police, nor should we be.

Mindset, skillset, toolset- in that order, right ?

We should be glad that so many want to learn the sweet science- and guide them the best we can.

FWIW- I had tools before I had books... but I had knowledge long before I had either.

I'm still confused as to what proper reloading etiquette is ? Do you need to keep the caliper on the left, or the right of the press ? :neener:

Hondo 60
February 18, 2013, 02:36 AM
Anyone else feel this way or am I concerned for their well-being for no reason?

It's not just you.

I have (very strongly) worded cautionary posts to new reloaders on the dangers of NOT having a reloading manual or three.

Reloading without the benefit of several reloading manuals is just plain lunacy.

788Ham
February 18, 2013, 02:43 AM
I've been reloading since I was 20 years old, I'm now 64, still learning the ropes, if you will. I've been fortunate to have a couple of guys who know a lot about the ins and outs of reloading, absolutely no short cuts! I've asked rc and ArchAngle questions when I'm not sure about the load, or a particular powder, I'm definitely not proud, or too proud to ask. I've learned a LOT since coming onto this forum, asking Arch about AA #5 powder for a .38 Spl load, he took the time to write out how he loads, exact bullet weight, etc., told me at the end of the email, "I hope I've answered your questions, if not, holler back." No one I've asked on here has told me to "Just read the ABC's, you'll learn in time" Not every answer will be found on the web either, you'll have to take the time, find someone who does know reloading, spend some time with them as a mentor if possible, just don't get fished off and try to fill up the case because its got some empty space left!

Texan Scott
February 18, 2013, 03:00 AM
All new reloaders should be required to start with 38 special and Trail Boss. Also, demonstrate background knowledge and aptitude before any new loading press purchase.

Of course, some will argue that universal loading press registration is the only way the system could work, but I say that's silly talk.

[DUCK&COVER] Kidding! I'm sorry, sorry! Only kidding!

Otto
February 18, 2013, 03:11 AM
Is anyone else concerned about the well-being of any of the new reloaders???

I don't exactly lose sleep over it.
If people refuse to read and follow the safety precautions set forth in reloading manuals...there's little I can do about it.

Lost Sheep
February 18, 2013, 04:12 AM
And we are seeing only those who have enough sense to join a forum and ask questions. What about those who just read the sparse sheet that comes with a-la-carte equipment purchases and proceed to self-educate from there?

Fortunately, most who start out reloading already have some experience with operating dangerous equipment (firearms) and know they are dealing with dangerous things.

Things are not as bleak as they might seem.

Lost Sheep

Reloadron
February 18, 2013, 06:05 AM
My thinking on this runs with that or RC and several others. While it can be said the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked some of the questions I see worry me a little.

When it comes to learning about hand loading the first response from most here is to get ABCs or reloading and a good Lyman manual. Many of the questions I see lend me to believe the people asking them have not read the book. Like jumping in the river only to later discover that still waters really do run deep.

Overall most of the questions I see are good questions but there seems to be the few who just do not want to put forth the effort to learn and get things right. Fortunately I don't see them as the majority but a few. I would prefer they are not shooting beside me on the range.

Just My Take
Ron

FROGO207
February 18, 2013, 08:03 AM
I think I speak for most of us in saying that even having reloaded for years I still learn something new all the time. Also this is the BEST all around sub forum to share this learned reloading information. There will always be a select few that feel they are too smart/good to read and follow the instructions that are included for your safety. Otherwise the manufacturers would not bother wasting resources printing them or putting them on the net.

There is an old saying when flying: There are old pilots, then there are bold pilots. BUT there are few successful old, bold pilots.
This also applies to reloading IMHO.:)

That said we now have a perfect storm of an ammo shortage, a batch of new reloaders, and limited or missing component selections that make lots of the printed manuals lacking in needed information. I will personally try to help whenever I can if the poster puts forth even a little bit of effort, but admit that if some took the little time needed to use the search function in this sub forum alone I feel I would be typing a LOT less. YMMV

Jhass
February 18, 2013, 08:13 AM
While components are scarce.

Reloading manuels and calibers are abundant.

Friend of mine wanted me to check some rounds someone else made for him.

The oal was way too long. The case length was over max. I didn't even check the charge.

twice barrel
February 18, 2013, 08:43 AM
I have a little different take. When I first started reloading it was for shotshells and clay targets ( I was 15 yrs old). Around 5 years later I learned to reload for a 270 that didn't shoot any factory ammo very well. Handloading saved the day. I think I purchased most of the manuals available and continued to reload metallic cartridges both as a cost saver and accuracy enhancer.

Today I own no manuals. The information online via sites like these and the powder manufacturers is more than adequate for conservative conscientious reloading. The trouble is someone wanting to use a powder they have (or can get) to reload a cartridge they have that possesses an inappropriate burning rate or they fail to obtain and follow directions for setting up dies or recognizing signs of pressure and backing off, etc. These people existed back when I started reloading before pc's or the internet. Occasionally they made the newspaper or shooting magazines as a result.

Folks like this don't seek help early enough or just don't listen. Telling them to purchase manuals and study up will not make much difference. Instead, when they do finally seek assistance give it to them. Don't chastise or belittle them. Don't tell them to do a search; instead provide them the link and tell them what/where to look for once they access the link. Do this over and over and over and over...........until you're sick and tired of it. Once it gets this way for you just button it up and stay away from those threads and posts. You'll do more harm than good.

TB

J_McLeod
February 18, 2013, 11:58 PM
And yes, I have seen a big uptick in new reloaders on THR in the last year, asking less then basic questions they should never need to ask.
If they had owned & read one chapter of one reloading manual while setting on the throne in the bathroom every morning before work that is.

It is troubling to me too!

rc

I've only been reloading a few years, but I've noticed a big uptick in questions recently that no one who's read a manual should ask. It troubles me as well.

tcanthonyii
February 19, 2013, 12:36 AM
I'm a new guy. Only been doing it for a little over 2 months. I read and read and read and watched and watched and watched videos. I received my kit as a gift. It included the Lee manual. Of everything I've read, for me personally it was the perfect ticket for learning. May not have been the best delivery for others but I got it.

I too, even being new am scared by some of the guys loading. I find great fun in loading up 5-10 of a load, then 5-10 more of another etc and working my way up. Reloading isn't exactly rocket science but it's not so easy that you can just pick a single charge and go for it. Even some of the questions they ask are so simplistic I can answer them and I have no business doing so.

So yes, its scares and concerns me too.

119er
February 19, 2013, 01:03 AM
I have several friends wanting to get into it and luckily I can teach them what I have already learned. Before they come over to learn they have to read the ABC's of reloading so that they have a working vocabulary and understand the theory of operation. Like GLOOB said, the biggest problem is complacency or indifference about safety rules. I still catch myself occasionally making a minor error. If I make a major error I will have to re-evaluate my process. The Hornady camlock bullet puller has been my companion a time or two.

boommer
February 19, 2013, 01:08 AM
30 YEARS RE LOADING my take on it is much like twice barrel and others and what is being asked by newbies the problem is some are not willing to book time, they are the new GEN that key board is there world. No foot work JUST PUNCH IT UP on the key board.! and you KNOW I'm telling the truth not all but most.

MRH
February 19, 2013, 01:10 AM
I guess some people don't know what the various Stickys are for, or what kind of info they could get using the Search function.

However, I think most of us would just roll our eyes at seeing a question for the umpteenth time, and just provide the answer (again).

Better to give the answer than have someone do something dangerous on their own.

Arkansas Paul
February 19, 2013, 03:08 AM
Yes I am concerned as well. I'm not an old hand at it by any means, but after 4 years or so, I have picked up a thing or two. However, I learn something new just about every time I step up to the bench.

I try to steer newbies towards bulky fluffy powders that are difficult, if not impossible to double charge. Loading tiny amounts of fast burning powder is what scares me the most about new guys that don't have a good system down. A double charge could slip by easily. You take a high pressure round to begin with like the .40 and add a fast powder like Bullseye (which is a great powder for it by the way) and little mistakes can become big ones in a hurry.

9w1911
February 19, 2013, 03:33 AM
It is odd to ask for a load and not have a manual or at least reference the powder makers website it something I really cannot wrap my head around.

ali9cg8
February 19, 2013, 04:50 AM
I've wanted to reload for quite a while and was super excited to see my press, powder, tools, and all that good stuff arrive in November. I didn't actually open the RCBS except to make sure everything was there. It stayed in the box until January when I felt comfortable with the general process down and had a few binders and manuals. I now love to do math stuff and external ballistics in my free time. Who would have guessed?

It's not like hooking up a TV without instructions. It's more like climbing behind a Mac truck without knowing how to drive it.

Walkalong
February 19, 2013, 08:16 AM
I reckin' we have beat up on the newbies enough. It is, however, good to see all the concern for them.

I will have to say though, that 99% of members answers to new reloaders questions have been courteous and helpful, even with the questions we see over and over. That includes safety warnings and advise to get reloading manuals.

THR members do a great job sharing and teaching. Cudos, and thanks. AC

beatledog7
February 19, 2013, 08:40 AM
The ones I worry about most (though the amount of worry I spend on this is small compared to other things on my worry list) are those who aren't bothering to ask for advice, followed by those who ask then ignore the advice they're given.

A new reloader can easily fall prey to the same disease that infects new shooters--testomachitis. No need to describe the symptoms. Ladies are almost always immune.

Mobuck
February 19, 2013, 08:54 AM
The ones that concern me are the"how many rounds can I crank out in X amount of time" group that just want to jump to the top production w/o learning what, why, and how. I started reloading in my late teens w/o much advice or supervision and didn't encounter any problems until I "thought" I knew almost everything years later. I see some serious difficulties in the future for those goal oriented over achievers.

45lcshooter
February 19, 2013, 08:58 AM
Everyone one knows where the computer is in the house. Everyone knows how to turn it on. If someone want to ask questions about reloading they will ask, this isn't the only website that offers a forum on reloading.

After we guide the new reloaders,, I'm sure the will not "blow their fingers off". Myself I didn't use the internet to start reloading. I had a family friend that stayed with us fr a while and I watched him reload countless nights. I didn't ask him about gasses or pressures or anything like that. I asked him basic questions and he gave basic answers. He's been reloading for over 35 years and I've been reloading for over 15 years. I've never read the front pages of the reloading manual, if I didn't have someone to show me how to reload then I would read the front pages of the reloading manual.

In this day in age, if your not on a forum and asking for help with any kinda of problem than your not a citizen ( thank you Al Gore for the internet, not.lol)

If your a newbie and blow your fingers off, that's negligence, if you did not ask for help.

oldpapps
February 19, 2013, 09:56 AM
Interesting.

I would think that the majority of those who are being worried over will never take a second look at this blog entry.

The world has become one of instant gratification. 'Why take the time to look up any information? Just demand it and 'it' with come.'

When I started, I had no money. Hell, I was 11 years old. Didn't convince my mother to let me till I was 12. I would collect pop bottles and sell them back at 'Darby's Market' (Never understood why Coke and Dr Pepper bottles were 2 cents but RC and Vess were only 1 cent?) My dad bought my stuff for me. Not that I was prohibited but it was a matter of distance. 47 cents for 100 primers, $4.15 for a pound of powder was just too much for me to waste. I spent many hours at the Public Library. Now a days I'm sure that Home Land Security would be watching me. I read and re-read ever gun loading book/s I could find. Not to 'be safe' but because that was a close as I could get to real loading. Over the years I have had two mishaps. One was a high primer (I think). Anyway when I closed the cylinder on a S&W Model 60 one round fired! The second was 2400 powder in a .357, the primer poped, nothing more. The 2400 had a little ball of congealed powder near the spent primer.

The point is. Never looking specifically at any safety warnings, I had read enough to understand the potential and made every effort to do the right thing. The 'all of a sudden loader', in today's rush, don't take the time to look up their own loading data. So are they (this is the generic 'they') going to have a clue as to what not to do?

What to do? Smile and offer any help that I can. All the time hoping that they don't do something really stupid!

beatledog7
February 19, 2013, 10:05 AM
Sometimes the guy who's been doing it for years has years of bad habits and only a little bit of good luck left. Reading the best manuals available gives a reloader the basics from reputable sources, and even someone who's got a "mentor" would do well to read them.

floydster
February 19, 2013, 10:55 AM
I purchsed a new Lee Classic Turret and I'm trying to figure out what the wood ball on the end of the handle is pose to do??

Thanks for help.

Smokeyloads

45lcshooter
February 19, 2013, 11:03 AM
Use a 8lb sledge on ^^^^^^^^^ to hammer in nails.

mljdeckard
February 19, 2013, 12:01 PM
I can only speak for myself. I know I'm a tool when it comes to anything mechanical. I have been so cautious I'm RCmodel logs off and knows the next question I'm going to ask before I even ask it. And I think I've come a long way, with overall very good results. I have had one squib in my M-1 carbine that I caught before I did damage. I have walked a couple of my buddies through the basics, and theirs worked too. I read the manuals, double-check load data, write everything down. For being entirely self-trained by youtube, manuals, and this forum, I think I'm doing pretty well.

murf
February 19, 2013, 02:03 PM
i have also noticed the increase in new bloggers. wonder if other "reloading" sites are increasing as well.

to all the new loaders: this business takes a lot of common sense. if something doesn't feel right, don't do it. if you have a question, ask it. we are all here to help and be helped.

welcome.

murf

p.s. get a reloading manual or two.

gamestalker
February 19, 2013, 04:20 PM
Thanks RC and others for helping me to realize when I am talking down to them. I don't intend to offend them for having limited knowledge of the hobby, and I sometimes forget that I was once in their shoes. I think sometimes I am just so over whelmed by obvious lack of study, or not adhering to what they have read, that I react as though I am scolding a child for acting up. I'll certainly try harder to talk too them, and also inject some effective form of education into my responses.
GS

crabwearer
February 19, 2013, 04:26 PM
As a new reloader i don't see a problem with anything that you have brought up. Having concern for new people getting into a hobby like this is normal. At this point I am simply gathering the necessary components and reading my manuals/asking questions. The input I get back from experienced reloaders such as yourself is very valuable. Just keep in mind that what we lack is experience but with input and guidance from people with experience we will safely expand our knowledge base.

Fishslayer
February 19, 2013, 04:31 PM
If they had owned & read one chapter of one reloading manual while setting on the throne in the bathroom every morning before work that is.

It is troubling to me too!

rc

That was me from about age 10 to 14. I read everything I could get my hands on. Elmer Keith, Jack O'Conner, all the Field & Stream and Outdoor Life legends. I think I knew about the powder trinity before I knew what girls were.:what:

That last part may have been an exaggeration...:evil:

Searcher4851
February 19, 2013, 04:52 PM
I think one of the biggest problems is the 'instant gratification' society that's been evolving over the years. Too many of the younger generation just want to know now, and don't want to take the time the find out the old fashioned way through research. There is such a wealth of information in the various threads on this site that I spend the vast majority of my time reading threads, instead of posting questions. In looking through the threads here, I've found answers to questions I never would have thought of to ask in the first place, and I've been reloading since the late 70's. I learned to reload by reading and paying attention to what I was doing. If one pays attention, and understands the processes involved, and how things work, it's a very safe hobby.

I AM concerned about the new reloaders that have more money than patience, go out and by a big fancy progressive press, and just want to keep pulling the handle and producing rounds with little thought and or understanding of what is actually going on.

I'm always willing to answer any questions that I can, and or confirm anyone else's correct answers, but am at times concerned with some of the confusion caused by some of the bickering that goes on in some of the threads, that doesn't really do anything to answer the OP's question, rather it just confuses the OP.

I rarely post a question since I'm usually reading and finding answers to any questions I have, hence I'm not real good at posting responses, since most questions are answered before I get to the threads, since I'm reading other posts. I am sometimes amazed at how much patience the prolific posters here have, as they answer the same questions that have been answered countless times, and with good spirit and great intentions. I think that is what drew me to this site, and has made me a regular reader, and sometime contributor.

Thank you all for everything you do to try and make this hobby safer and easier for everyone, and your willingness to share your knowledge so freely.

Certaindeaf
February 19, 2013, 05:01 PM
Some people here have certain expectations. Maybe in another life they were drill sergeants.. for true.
Sometimes people are short with one another.. what is best?
Assume personal responsibility people, with each breath you draw and every action you take, it may well be your last regarding the most mundane thing.

blarby
February 19, 2013, 05:16 PM
The wood ball helps prevent blisters and other soreness from pulling the arm over an over against an irregular surface.

FL sizing rifle brass requires a lot of torque. Take the ball off, and give it about 50 pieces- you will see what the ball is for :D

Certaindeaf
February 19, 2013, 05:45 PM
The wood ball helps prevent blisters and other soreness from pulling the arm over an over against an irregular surface.

FL sizing rifle brass requires a lot of torque. Take the ball off, and give it about 50 pieces- you will see what the ball is for :D
Johnson Paste Wax is always the answer.

TheCracker
February 19, 2013, 07:14 PM
I'm not worried about them. If they don't have enough sense to learn about it before they jump in Darwinism will run its course. Simple nature!

TNBilly
February 19, 2013, 07:23 PM
.....

GLOOB
February 19, 2013, 09:05 PM
Fear for anyone? No. They ask dumb questions because they're new, is all.

Reloading is easier than painting by numbers, anymore. You buy all the stuff premade. Bullets are uniform. Powders are calibrated. Dies are ready to use out the box. I don't think learning to use a scale and following a recipe from a loading manual makes any of us Einstein.

316SS
February 19, 2013, 10:59 PM
Consider the selection bias. The guy that starts a thread on THR rather than taking 5 minutes to read his manual(s) is 1 out of maybe 1000 people who are conscientious and take personal responsibility for their loads.

That said, rcmodel and many others have graciously answered questions (ranging from basic to complex) that we lurkers benefit from. For all the folks like me that hang back and absorb your wisdom, I thank you.

Fishslayer
February 20, 2013, 12:13 AM
II have some Hercules Bullseye in a rusty can, some old Alcan powder in a paper bag, Lg primers in an unmarked primer flipper with tape on it,

rc

Well... better an unmarked flipper than a glass jar.:evil:

Walkalong
February 20, 2013, 08:36 AM
My first 700X did come in a paper bag, from an old shotgun reloader. The next batch was (is) in a metal can. Does anything come in metal cans anymore?

icanthitabarn
February 20, 2013, 09:21 AM
If I can get one finger ;)...saved... it will be worth it. The first thing I did, a few years ago, when starting, was store all the indexing parts on my new Lee C.T. Then I made/ bought numerous dips. With a hand primer, my method is slower, but safe. It does save time by not having to monkey with stuff all the time. I have been using a old fashioned powder drop that fills a tube, and is then hand dropped into a funnel, to fill the cases. The dips are faster, but either way, I see this. A few looks into the powder filled cases, with the light and magnification, means no mistakes. Just keep other empty cases away, to avoid a momentary lapse of attention, and load away. Plus my cases have time to get trimmed and prepped the way I like.

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l542/g5uis23ft5h/21645129-51a1-4d4e-9c76-08cf51de61fe_zps5d4f627f.jpg

P.S. that scale is not the one used

floydster
February 20, 2013, 10:27 AM
I remember when my brothers and I started re-loading, we bought a 50 lb. barrel of 4831 at the hardware store for $25.80--it can in a cardboard barrel:)
The year was 1956.

Smokeyloads

dragon813gt
February 20, 2013, 11:14 AM
I'm worried about my safety more then theirs. Besides unwanted media attention from a rash of kabooms. I don't care if another Reloader blows his gun up or hurts themselves. I do care if I get hurt. Or worse yet me 12yo step daughter that goes to the range w/ me all the time. Injuring others because of negligence is unacceptable to me.

This exact topic is being discussed on another forum. I will say the same thing here. If you aren't mechanical then you shouldn't be reloading. A lot of people think they're mechanical when fact is they aren't. Look at all the DIY home projects that get screwed up by people that "think they know what they're doing." At least in that case they aren't dealing with a controlled explosion.

To many people want it now and aren't willing to do any research. I can't tell you how many people I know that haven't picked up a book since high school. These are the people that are a potential risk.


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Gadawg88
February 20, 2013, 08:55 PM
Well I am one of the new guys around here. I just wanted to say thanks to you guys for taking the time to share the valuable knowledge many of you have gained over decades of reloading. As some have said, reloading is not rocket science, but it is serious business in my mind. The better safe than sorry motto definitely applies. That may lead some of new guys to ask a question just to confirm what we think is right. I wish I had a knowledgable mentor locally to learn from, but sadly I do not. I did a lot of book learning and online research before I even bought my press just to make sure I thought I was cut out for it. But no amount of words and pictures on a page can replace real world experience. That's where you guys come in, so thanks again and thanks for your patience. Maybe someday I will be qualified to pay it forward.

P.S. I shot my first ever reloads, 45 acp, this week and all went well. All went boom with no FTF or other abnormalities.

chriske
February 21, 2013, 07:37 AM
I think you're right to be concerned.

Bad things caused by and/or happening to ignorant/irresponsible shooters/reloaders have a tendency to generate bad things for all, like more restrictive legislation for instance.

chriske
February 21, 2013, 07:42 AM
Oh yes : one other thing :
No-one can be blamed for "not knowing" : that's ignorance.
It does not equal stupidity, which is not wanting to learn.

rdhood
February 21, 2013, 09:49 AM
Anyone else feel this way or am I concerned for their well-being for no reason?

Rollback 4 years, and you can find the very same questions being asked. I don't remember fingers being blown off, or guns blowing up, or houses catching fire. I think you concerns are baseless.

p.s. I never read a manual, never got tutelage from more experienced folks, and still have all of my guns, hands, fingers. It's not rocket science.

vujade
February 21, 2013, 10:19 AM
The more people get into any sport/hobby/activity, the chances of getting an idiot (or someone smart) getting into an accident goes up. "It's arithmetic". (Just kidding, of course I didn't vote for him)

I'm seeing more and more newbies break the safety rules at the range. The other day, I was picking up brass and a bullet flew by me a few feet away. Some kid in tight pants and his new $900 gun - all he could say was ,"Sorry man". Geez.

My concern is that when skiiers break a leg - it's not in the news. If someone double charges a round and blows off a finger and shrapnel flies and hits a kid shooting next to him, they'll be in the news. I was counting the blessings the other day that the media and the public in general don't know about reloading.

Can you imagine the outcry when libs find out you can make your own "super cop-killer, armor penetrating bullets" in your own living room without a permit?!?

gfanikf
February 21, 2013, 10:41 AM
Is anyone else concerned about the well-being of any of the new reloaders???

Seems like a lot of folks are jumping in without checking the water first...ie. reading several reloading manuals, getting the advice and tutelage of experienced reloaders, not properly following safe reloading etiquette, etc...

I fear that several of them may blow off some fingers in their attempts to circumvent safety.

Anyone else feel this way or am I concerned for their well-being for no reason?

Don't worry I always ask others to test my loads first. :D

As anyone whose read these boards can point out (rcmodel especially might remeber me trying to find a pitetntially lost spent primer) I'm pretty neurotic with safety and always ask questions. Hell the time and cost I expended before ever making a complete round was ridiculous....but I wouldn't trade that for anything. It was valuable beyond measure and I just hope others take their time...but the flipside is if I can do it safely hopefully others can too.

I may ask some basic questions at times but its out of an abundance of caution and a desire not to injury/kill myself or my loved ones...or others at the range.

One problem with just books is I'm a very visual learner and benefit from seeing others do something first. I'm also nervous about deviating from explicit instructions.

Now to just shoot one of my rounds (time issue vs anything else). lol

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