No bang with S&B ammo


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rtba
February 17, 2013, 11:30 PM
I got some S&B 9mm ball ammo for my SIG P226. Options are limited of late, but this seemed to be not the worst I could have gotten. But I had five out of the first box fail to fire during my last trip to the range! Two of them fired on the second try, but not the other three. I've heard S&B has hard primers, but I didn't expect this. Anyone else experienced this? Anything that can be done to help? Everything else I've tried has worked flawlessly, but this was the first time I've tried European ammo. I suppose I could try replacing the firing pin spring!?

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GLOOB
February 17, 2013, 11:43 PM
I have only one experience with S&B. Back when 380 was scarce a few years ago, LGS finally got a shipment of S&B 380 FMJ. My friend had constant feed jams, due to the bullet shape/OAL. Then had a squib and subsequent bore obstruction kB. Whoops.

I suppose I could try replacing the firing pin spring!?
Well, check to see if it's broken, first! A broken FP spring will most certainly cause intermittent light strikes. Unload gun, cock hammer, press on the firing pin with a pencil. If it bounces back, it's fine.

If you want to up the power, you want to replace the mainspring (hammer spring).

holdencm9
February 17, 2013, 11:45 PM
I've heard that S&B has hard primers too, but have never had a single failure to fire in my Beretta 92FS. It was my go-to range ammo for years, because it had a little more gusto than other brands. However, my friend did have one in his Glock.

I'd say try another box of S&B, maybe you just got a particularly hard-primered box, then if you still have issues, try a stronger hammer spring.

ID-shooting
February 17, 2013, 11:52 PM
Ran a bunch of new stock S&B 9mm through my Sig 2022 saturday. All ran just fine.

rcmodel
February 17, 2013, 11:57 PM
I suppose I could try replacing the firing pin spring!?The firing pin spring on a hammer fired SIG 226 has nothing at all to do with light strikes.

It does nothing except retract the firing pin back inside the slide after the round is fired.

You might be talking about a mainspring / hammer spring.

But that is unlikely too on a fairly new SIG that doesn't have half a gazillion rounds through it.

Have you cleaned the chamber throughly with a bronze bore brush & solvent, ever??
Have you cleaned the slide & firing pin channel with spray solvent?

It could be a dirty chamber holding the slide out of battery far enough to cause light strikes.

Or it could be a dirty firing pin channel slowing down the firing pin strike.

I have shot a lot of S&B .380 and 9mm just to get the brass to reload.
And I've never had a misfire with it.

rc

Rock185
February 18, 2013, 12:16 AM
Haven't tried any S&B 9MM, but did have a negative experience with S&B .223 ammo back around 2009, when ammo was difficult to get even for PDs. Does this sound familiar? Anyway,our Rangemaster had ordered a quantity of S&B .223, because that was all he could actually get at the time for training. He told me officers had been having failures to extract and he wasn't buying anymore. Within the first magazine, the S&B failed to extract twice in the Dept. M-16 I was issued. The officer next to me had a failure to extract in his rifle immediately afterwards. The rifles were clean and lubed. We had just started qualifications, were shooting semi-auto, and the rifles were not heated up from full auto fire, etc. We could not extract the fired cases until we knocked them out with steel cleaning rods. The rifles gave no trouble with Winchester, Remington and Federal ammo. I have never personally purchased any S&B, and have no plans to unless the ammo situation gets a lot worse than it is now...ymmv

BTW, I carried the P226 every working day for several years. I don't ever recall having a malfunction with any factory Winchester, Speer, Federal or Remington ammo, or my own reloads. I don't think it's your gun......

coalbed
February 18, 2013, 12:31 AM
Hey thought Id jump in, I would get another pistol and try some in it. S&B is quality ammo and they actually load for Winchester and others with Winchester head stamps. Not saying they couldn't have a bad lot, any load company could. I personally have shot literally thousands of S&B rounds in many different calibers and never had any problem with any of it. In fact its usually some of the better and more accurate of what I've tried. Just my 2 cents.

Steve C
February 18, 2013, 12:56 AM
I have shot cases of 9mm 115gr S&B brass ammo over the years and can't remember any failures to fire. Don't own a Sig in 9mm but the ammo has fired in 5 other makes of 9mm that I do own without hiccup and never seemed to have hard primes.

I'd suspect it is your firearm causing the light hits on the primers. Follow RC's advice regarding cleaning to eliminate possible causes of light hits by the firing pin.

The first time I shot my Sig 220 I had similar problems with light hammer strike. After a a thorough cleaning the subsequent range trips over the last 15+ years have been event free.

xjsnake
February 18, 2013, 01:02 AM
I've run about 500 rounds on S&B through my bersa with zero issues. I've shot a couple boxes of 9mm in my S&W with no issues either

CZguy
February 18, 2013, 01:02 AM
Reread post number five. He listed all the things to check.

S&B is good quality ammo. Ive used it for years without any problems.

wojownik
February 18, 2013, 01:14 AM
Been shooting S&B in my p226, p229, p228 and p220 for years and years. Never had an issue (except it is a bit dirtier than some). Not one issue in over 3,500 rounds of S&B 9mm, and probably 1000 in .45acp.

Fremmer
February 18, 2013, 01:27 AM
I've used the 9mm and the 45 acp and never had a problem. The kimber seems to like their 45 ammo.

Cokeman
February 18, 2013, 05:56 AM
They used to have a red sealer around the primers on the .380 ammo. Lately the red seal isn't there. I don't know what the difference is. When I got my first box of non-red, I carried a mag full in my Kahr for a while. I went to the range and on the first shot, I pulled the trigger and click. I put that round back in the mag and it did it again. It finally fired on the 4th try. I'm glad I was shooting that 1st round at the range and not at an attacker.

NYGlock
February 18, 2013, 06:49 AM
I had a case of S&B 9mm ammo that gave my old Taurus PT-111 problems. I found that 2-3 rounds out of every box ould not fire on the first trigger pull; they would almost all fire on the second. I sold the Taurus and bought a Glock 26 and had no problems on the remainder of the case.

Carl N. Brown
February 18, 2013, 07:10 AM
I had a Grendel P10 double action only .380 pistol that ran fine with Winchester, but occasionally failed to fire on first strike with S&B .380 but would fire on second strike. Good ammo for detecting flinch at the range, I must admit, but not good for carry.

I have shot S&B 7.62x25mm in a CZ-52 for about 8 years now with no problems. I did get a batch of Berdan-primed military PPU that occasionally failed to fire on first strike but would fire on second try. The Boxer-primed commercial PPU has been as reliable as the S&B.

Basically, some foreign commercial and military small pistol primers are as thick as our small rifle primers. Some pistols will have problems with some ammo.

Test ammo at the range before relying on it for carry for defense.

jimbo555
February 18, 2013, 09:41 AM
I had the same problem with s&b 9mm,won't buy anymore. The ammo looks like quality stuff but the primers are a problem for a lot of guns.

railroadman
February 18, 2013, 10:57 AM
I use both a PPS 43 and a CZ52 I wish i could get more.Cases too.I can,t find any in florida.The PPS43 35 rds 4 different mags faultless.

mgmorden
February 18, 2013, 11:38 AM
I've personally never had any issues with S&B ammo myself. Always shot well (and for rifle ammo S&B 150gr SP grouped better than any other factory ammo out of my Savage .30-06).

That said, light strikes are somewhat rare on a hammer-fired gun too (more common on striker guns).

Maybe you just got a bad box. With the companies churning out ammo at the pace they are QC might have slipped at some plants.

heeler
February 18, 2013, 12:28 PM
I have fired hundreds of rounds of S&B ammo in 380,9mm,and 32ACP without one issue.
And before the great panic and drought I ordered a bunch of it because I was getting 9mm for $9.99 a box.
It is my preferred target practice ammo.

1KPerDay
February 18, 2013, 12:38 PM
Haven't tried any S&B 9MM, but did have a negative experience with S&B .223 ammo back around 2009, when ammo was difficult to get even for PDs. Does this sound familiar? Anyway,our Rangemaster had ordered a quantity of S&B .223, because that was all he could actually get at the time for training. He told me officers had been having failures to extract and he wasn't buying anymore. Within the first magazine, the S&B failed to extract twice in the Dept. M-16 I was issued. The officer next to me had a failure to extract in his rifle immediately afterwards. The rifles were clean and lubed. We had just started qualifications, were shooting semi-auto, and the rifles were not heated up from full auto fire, etc. We could not extract the fired cases until we knocked them out with steel cleaning rods. The rifles gave no trouble with Winchester, Remington and Federal ammo. I have never personally purchased any S&B, and have no plans to unless the ammo situation gets a lot worse than it is now...ymmv

BTW, I carried the P226 every working day for several years. I don't ever recall having a malfunction with any factory Winchester, Speer, Federal or Remington ammo, or my own reloads. I don't think it's your gun......
Old, blue boxed S&B may be problematic. New, green and red box S&B is among the best ammo you can buy, IMO. I'd take it any day over Rem/UMC or WWB garbage. To the OP try cleaning the firing pin channel as suggested or a new mainspring.

Landric
February 18, 2013, 12:53 PM
Just before the panic started a bought 500 rounds of S&B 147 grain 9mm JHP from a local gun shop for cost. The reason I got it for cost was because the rest of the case had been sold to other customers and had been returned for multiple failures to fire in various handguns. I was buying for my 9mm AR, so I decided to chance it. The stuff works perfectly in my 9mm AR, and is also reasonably quiet suppressed. I also use S&B .380 in my Beretta 84FS without any issues. I suspect that the primers are significantly harder than most US primers, and as such, some guns have problems with it.

jonnyc
February 18, 2013, 01:27 PM
S&B is the only ammo that has miss-fired in my KelTec P32. I just don't buy it anymore, end of problem.

coalbed
February 18, 2013, 03:46 PM
Well I guess this is a perfect example why you should buy a box of several different manufactures ammo with a new gun to see what is most reliable and most accurate for your new gun (tested after break in period). I would say not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and swear off S&B for all your firearms, it just may be what another gun of yours loves better than all the rest. I had cycling problems with Remington .30'06 ammo in a Remington 742 of all things, but it worked well in my Mauser custom of the same caliber and was very accurate, I suspect it was a light loading, but the point is every gun is different and even 2 guns of the same model may behave differently and like different ammo. I've had time to recollect, and I am positive I have never had so much as a jam with S&B in the many thousands of rounds and dozens of different firearms,for what its worth. So If I were you I would try that ammo in another pistol and continue to try it in other guns in the future. It is premium ammo.

kerreckt
February 18, 2013, 04:15 PM
I have shot many thousand rounds of S&B in 9mm .380 and .45acp over the years. I have used their primers to reload many thousand rounds of the same calibers. I never had any problems. I once had some PPU .380 that was bad but they were aware of it when I got in touch with them and made good on it. I hope this is just a freak occurrence and not a sign of things to come. I have always viewed S&B as a good quality manufacturer of ammo and components.

dryflyelk
February 18, 2013, 05:07 PM
Funny, I fired about 300 rounds of that exact same combo just two days ago - S&B 115 gr 9mm through my Sig P226. It went flawlessly. I've also fired thousands of rounds of the same stuff with my glocks and I've never had an issue. Sounds like you got a bad batch or something.

rtba
February 18, 2013, 08:37 PM
You might be talking about a mainspring / hammer spring.

But that is unlikely too on a fairly new SIG that doesn't have half a gazillion rounds through it.


It's an early 1990's pistol of West German origin. I haven't had it that long, so this might be a possibility. I don't have any good idea of how many rounds have been through it, but it looks clean so I suspect it hasn't been that many. No problems with any other ammo I've tried.


Have you cleaned the chamber throughly with a bronze bore brush & solvent, ever??
Have you cleaned the slide & firing pin channel with spray solvent?


It had been exactly 108 rounds since it was last cleaned very thoroughly. I will re-check and take it to the range again this coming weekend. We'll see. Thanks for your ideas! I really appreciate it. And everyone else too!

JohnBiltz
February 19, 2013, 02:54 AM
S&B is one of my preferred brands of ammo. Its always worked well for me.

Cokeman
February 19, 2013, 02:56 AM
Do any of you know why they stopped putting the red sealer around the primers? Is that a sealer? Did the other calibers have it or just the .380?

PabloJ
February 19, 2013, 03:36 AM
Do any of you know why they stopped putting the red sealer around the primers? Is that a sealer? Did the other calibers have it or just the .380?
9x19 I shot had red sealer around the primer. The WBW 9x18 did not have the sealer if I recall correctly.

Cokeman
February 19, 2013, 04:01 AM
What's its exact purpose and why did they stop using it?

chriske
February 19, 2013, 10:09 AM
While they are not always the most accurate, I never had any functional problems with S&B 9mm ammo in the various 9mm pistols I use (Browning HP, CZ 75, SIG P-210).
I also never had any indication that their primers were extra-hard.
I DO know their brass is extra-hard to prime, though, in any caliber.

1KPerDay
February 19, 2013, 01:59 PM
I DO know their brass is extra-hard to prime, though, in any caliber.
For me it varies from "snug" (in 9mm, .40, .45, .380) to almost too tight (.38 special). I have no doubt that S&B .38 special cases will split before the primer pockets get too loose. :)

220slow
February 19, 2013, 02:06 PM
I had a Ruger LC9. Had failures to fire from that ammo. Other ammo worked fine. S&B worked fine in a Glock.

HKGuns
February 19, 2013, 08:13 PM
I've never had an issue with S&B ammo. I find it is great plinking ammo.

dfsixstring
February 19, 2013, 08:17 PM
I've only fired one of the two 9mm boxes I have and it was 100% positive. I wonder if quality is suffering due to high demand? I heard a star the other day that said that 16Billion rounds of ammo (all calibers) is sold in the US annually.


Dfsixstring
SR9c
LCP
RST4S

billymarr
February 19, 2013, 08:30 PM
I have used it in 45 and 308 with no problems and accuracy was actually very good.

breakingcontact
February 20, 2013, 12:01 AM
Anyone else experienced this?

Not with that gun, but yes.

PabloJ
February 20, 2013, 10:12 AM
I got some S&B 9mm ball ammo for my SIG P226. Options are limited of late, but this seemed to be not the worst I could have gotten. But I had five out of the first box fail to fire during my last trip to the range! Two of them fired on the second try, but not the other three. I've heard S&B has hard primers, but I didn't expect this. Anyone else experienced this? Anything that can be done to help? Everything else I've tried has worked flawlessly, but this was the first time I've tried European ammo. I suppose I could try replacing the firing pin spring!?
Look at the upside. Fewer bangs is better then no bangs at all. Rumor is 9x19 ball is made of UNobtainium right now.

kokapelli
February 20, 2013, 01:09 PM
I quit using S&B years ago because I a number of duds in multiple pistols.

coalbed
May 28, 2013, 05:01 AM
To anyone still on this link that has sworn off of my favorite ammo (S&B), I would be interested in buying all of your "bad" ammo from you at 25% of cost lol.:evil:

ku4hx
May 28, 2013, 09:49 AM
Can't speak to their loaded ammunition, but their Large Pistol primers have rather hard cups in my experience. So much so that the few thousand I had were restricted to 44 Magnum revolver stuff.

Given the current pinch I'd buy more, but only in a pinch and only for my Ruger SRH and SBH.

BenFoo
May 28, 2013, 10:43 AM
I used a few boxes of SB 9mm 115g(around 300rds or so) at a recent training course. No FTFs. No FTEs. Seemed to be as accurate and clean as any other ammo I've used recently. Gun used was Beretta PX4 fullsized.

bannockburn
May 28, 2013, 10:50 AM
No problems to report with S&B pistol (9mm. and .38 Special), rifle (.223), or shotgun (12 gauge), ammunition; in fact I would rate it well above WWB for overall reliability and quality.

kerreckt
May 28, 2013, 06:09 PM
Coincidentally, I just came back from the range and after shooting on the 100yd. range I went inside to shoot some of my handguns. I looked in the basket of misfires and saw several S&B 9mm and .380. Knowing that S&B is quality ammo, I took them out examined them and then put them into the magazines of my handguns. They all fired. Some of the primers looked like they had been hit hard but obviously not hard enough. The same thing last time at the handgun range. I know my pistols hit hard because I have put extra strong Wolff hammer and mainsprings in them to avoid light strikes. I view all my guns as possible self defense weapons and won't tolerate a light strike.

Tcruse
May 28, 2013, 07:21 PM
Have shot lots of 9mm 115g S&B with red, green and no sealer. Never a failure in Glock 26 Gen3, Glock 17 Gen4, Ruger P95, Keltec P11 and Baby Desert Eagle II. I consider it one of the best range ammo. Cabela's brass 9mm is also S&B (printed on box). Have not seen any in these parts since the shortage started. I have seen hard primers from time to time with some imported ammo both steel cased and brass. Would not be surprised if every manufacture is not using what ever primers that they can get, there may be some quality issues based on shortages.

Cokeman
May 28, 2013, 10:45 PM
To anyone still on this link that has sworn off of my favorite ammo (S&B), I would be interested in buying all of your "bad" ammo from you at 25% of cost lol.:evil:

Sounds good to me. Mine is all shot.

Lj1941
May 29, 2013, 03:35 PM
No problems for me with 45 ACP & 9MM Mak.:)

The Lone Haranguer
May 29, 2013, 05:57 PM
Do the primers have deep, reasonably centered strikes/dimples? If they do, the primers in those rounds were faulty, period. If they are just barely dimpled, I would still not be too quick to blame the ammo. The French model I met on the internet :p did say this ammo has hard primers, but the SIG is a European pistol and should have no trouble firing European ammo. I never had any failures to fire with it in my old Kahr, which isn't even hammer-fired.

Cokeman
May 30, 2013, 12:38 AM
How long ago?

coalbed
May 30, 2013, 03:23 AM
I could sure use some 7.62x25 and 7.62x39.

Cokeman
May 30, 2013, 03:35 AM
I've got a bunch of that to sell if anyone wants it.

Okie45
May 30, 2013, 05:19 AM
I had alot of trouble shooting S&B 9mm through a browning hi power last year. Seemed like every 3rd or 4th round wouldn't fire. They all shot on the 2nd attempt. The gun normally runs Winchester and Remington just fine. I no longer use their ammo. Just like anything else, some people have great luck with a product, others don't.

pockets
May 31, 2013, 10:45 AM
I've heard that S&B has hard primers too.....never had a problem with it personally.
I have been using S&B for years...thousands of rounds in .25acp, 32acp, .380acp, 9x18, and 9x19.....through a couple dozen different pistols...without any failure-to-fire issues. Never had an issue with the older S&B stuff either.
I guess I am just lucky.
.

ku4hx
May 31, 2013, 01:16 PM
@ Cokeman ... What's yer price?

Cokeman
June 1, 2013, 02:39 AM
What are you looking for? I'm talking about the once fired brass that I have. I have .380, some 9mm, .40 S&W, and .223.

Water-Man
June 1, 2013, 03:31 AM
I shoot them in .38spl, .45acp and .223. Never had a problem.

raubvogel
June 1, 2013, 09:55 PM
Only time I had an issue with S&B was shooting it in my Dreyse. I wonder if the firing pin of the little guy is still the original. I might need to get me a spare...

But, like Wolf, I contacted them and they are going to send me a replacement box. Unlike Wolf, they did not want the old box back.

rtba
July 20, 2013, 02:35 PM
UPDATE: a little over a month and almost a thousand rounds later (different ammo), I disassembled and fully cleaned the gun, including the firing pin channel. I also replaced a number of springs, including the mainspring. No more problem. I did notice a difference in the trigger pull, especially DA. I have no means of quantifying though (what is needed to measure trigger pull anyway?). While there is no way to be 100% certain after so many variables changed, I'm guessing someone before me may have installed a lighter mainspring in an attempt to lighten the trigger pull. The spring itself was noticeably easier to compress by hand. Anyway, I didn't follow up and I wanted to thank rcmodel for the excellent advice!!!

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