First time Garand reloading


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Mustang51
February 18, 2013, 03:38 PM
I'm getting ready to handloadload my first Garand ammunition. I've reloaded before for bolt guns in 7.65 Argy, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62 x 54R and 8 x 57 bolt guns. But never for 30.06 and never for any semi and I had a few questions...

I'm using HXP brass dated '67, '68, and '70, full length resized with a standard RCBS reloading die set...any reason to segregate the brass and load only one year? Any problems to look for on the brass sizing for a semi?

I'm planning on loading 45.5, 46.0, and 46.5 grains of IMR 4064 with a 168 gr Nosler Custom Competition bullet and seeing which is most accurate. Anyone think that a different charge would be better?

How many reloads do people normally get with loads in this range from HXP brass?

I've also got some commercial Federal and Lake City military brass, would either of those be a better choice?

I'll be using CCI #34 primers

I plan on loading to an overall length of 3.285 with no crimp.

Anyone see any problems or have any suggestions?

Thanks

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ArchAngelCD
February 18, 2013, 03:46 PM
I have well over 1000 pieces of Greek Surplus HXP brass and I have not had a problem with any of it while reloading.

The new Hornady 9th Edition manual lists a charge range for IMR4064 of 41.4gr to 47.2gr using a Hornady 168gr BTHP Match bullet with an OAL of 3.240" for a velocity of 2600 fps. Your charge weights are well within the limits Hornady has set and this data is specific to M1 Garand 30-06 rounds.

Please don't forget the range report, good luck...

oldpapps
February 18, 2013, 04:03 PM
"... HXP brass dated '67, '68, and '70, full length resized with a standard RCBS reloading die set...any reason to segregate the brass and load only one year? Any problems to look for on the brass sizing for a semi? As you are just starting out, I would say no. If/when you get to precision loading, yes.

I'm planning on loading 45.5, 46.0, and 46.5 grains of IMR 4064 with a 168 gr Nosler Custom Competition bullet and seeing which is most accurate. Anyone think that a different charge would be better? I don't use that powder and know nothing about it. It looks to have a slower burn rate (as listed in a 'Powder Burn Rate Chart'). Garands weak point is the operating rod. Too heavy of charge or too long of pressure spike or too heavy of bullet or a combination of these is not good. I will have to defer to those who use this powder and bullet combination. I prefer H or IMR 4895 and 150 grain bullets (sometimes I run 748 and 147gr pulls).

How many reloads do people normally get with loads in this range from HXP brass? Many factors here. How hot of load. Over size chamber. Tight sizing dies. Quality of that lot of brass. Some will say 2 or 3 loads and your done. Other, like me, say keep it trimmed and check the web and load away. Safety is first.

I've also got some commercial Federal and Lake City military brass, would either of those be a better choice? Use what you have. Keep a close eye on each and make your decision as to what you like best.

I'll be using CCI #34 primers No complaint there.

I plan on loading to an overall length of 3.285 with no crimp. Well within the book listed max. "

The Garand is a classic. It is NOT a hot-shot magnum design and does what it was designed for extremely well. Feed is well and it will serve you well.

Mustang51
February 18, 2013, 06:11 PM
Thanks, guys.

I was just looking over my HXP brass and noticed there are three stakes on the primer pocket. Am I going to need to ream those off before I re-prime or are they an issue?

tbob38
February 18, 2013, 06:42 PM
Thanks, guys.

I was just looking over my HXP brass and noticed there are three stakes on the primer pocket. Am I going to need to ream those off before I re-prime or are they an issue?
I have loaded a few without reaming or swaging, but it is marginal. I generally swage HXP brass just like other GI brass.

Mustang51
February 18, 2013, 06:50 PM
Is there some kind of swaging tool or die that you sue in the press?

tbob38
February 18, 2013, 07:07 PM
I use the RCBS primer pocket swager which is used in the press, and have used them for over 40 years. Dillon and I think Hornady also make them.

DJW
February 18, 2013, 07:24 PM
While the swager is really the right way to do it I have gotten by with using a RCBS combination deburring/chamfering tool by hand..............

chris in va
February 18, 2013, 09:56 PM
I'm planning on loading 45.5, 46.0, and 46.5 grains of IMR 4064 with a 168 gr Nosler Custom Competition bullet and seeing which is most accurate. Anyone think that a different charge would be better? I don't use that powder and know nothing about it. It looks to have a slower burn rate (as listed in a 'Powder Burn Rate Chart'). Garands weak point is the operating rod. Too heavy of charge or too long of pressure spike or too heavy of bullet or a combination of these is not good. I will have to defer to those who use this powder and bullet combination. I prefer H or IMR 4895 and 150 grain bullets (sometimes I run 748 and 147gr pulls).

4064 is perfectly acceptible to use in the M1.

As for swaging the primer pockets, just get a $2 chamfer bit from Home Depot and buzz off the crimp with a cordless drill. No need to do anything else. Just make sure the primers seat slightly below flush.

A-FIXER
February 18, 2013, 10:17 PM
I have multiple reloads using HXP brass, you good to go on that.

I only use H4895 for use in that rifle

I cherish my M-1 too much to chance it, but thats up to you.

oldpapps
February 18, 2013, 10:57 PM
"Am I going to need to ream those off before I re-prime"

Well, how many cases do you have? A hundred or less, buying a tool isn't very cost justified. A couple a thousand, your hands will prefer a tool.

As stated above, just about anything from a pocket knife to a power drill will remove those pesky little bumps (rings on most other brass, but it's all the same).

You've got'a get the old primers out first and that can be a fun time with some dies. I've used 'pin in brass set into a stand with a hammer' units, no fun. I now use a LEE die that is made to punch those things out, better.

Many makers have swager tools and I'm sure that they all work. I use one made by C&H Tool and I am very happy with it. http://www.ch4d.com/?com=catalog&view=product&alias=419000 (Just for reference)

Remember, as much fun(not) as punching out crimped in primers and pressing/cutting out the crimps may be, you only have to do that one case one time.

119er
February 18, 2013, 11:50 PM
I've never used HXP brass but I have 250 Korean PS '81 cases I'm waiting to anneal to load up. I have used Federal M1 marked brass from the American Eagle Garand ammo. The primer pockets were loose after two firings of moderate loads. I am on my 5th load of Winchester cases and this will be their last. I have never noticed any web concerns in MY rifle. It had a very tight chamber cut. The primer pockets always loosen up first on me.

On 4064, my rifle likes it pretty well with the 168's.

I have a CH4D swager and like it for the price.

I love loading for the M1 because I love to shoot it! Just watch for high primers and brass that is not sized properly. Like a lot of semi autos the M1 can have out of battery slam fires. To set up my dies initially, I strip the bolt down completely and size until the bolt closes on the case with no resistance. Mine took a surprising amount of set back on the first go around. Now the brass barely grows.

soloban
February 19, 2013, 12:08 AM
Once the rim gets tore up and you trimmed it down a few times its good to reform into 8mm Mauser. You can deal with the tore up rims in the Mauser since the ejection process isn't near as violent when compared to the Garand.

ali9cg8
February 19, 2013, 04:06 AM
I've never officially crimped for my Garand and of course, it got cranky on me this afternoon. Two hangfires. Whaaa? Problem diagnosed and all is good. But I will be paying very close attention to the precision of bullet seating. And second everything oldpappy said.

When I first started, I was obsessive about primer placement. I got really sick of my calipers, but everything that has been previously mentioned is great advice. 4895 is my favorite as well, but I have more Accurate 2495 and I've had some good turnouts with that.

Let us know how everything goes. It's one of those loads that seems like you can never learn enough about. Best of luck!

Mustang51
February 19, 2013, 10:15 AM
Thanks, guys.

I've decapped, resized, trimmed, and primer-pocket reamed 60 cases. They are ready for charging and bullet seating.

On setting up the sizing die...I placed the ram at the top position (it's an RCBS Rock Chucker...I tend to use RCBS gear because I grew up not far from Oroville, CA, where they are located and still live close by), screwed the die down till it touched the shell holder, then turned it another 1/4 turn and set the lock ring.

I lubed the shells with Hornady spray case lube and they went through the sizing die surprisingly easy. No problems getting the old primers out. I then trimmed them to 2.485", deburred the case mouths and took a few light turns on the primer pocket with the deburrer.

Previously I had tried to re-prime several of them without reaming and about half went right in and the other half either stuck or were extremely hard to seat. The ones that stuck took very little effort with the deburring tool to clean up and seat easily.

Anyone see any problems here? This is the same procedure that I've used with reloads for bolt guns, but I'm a little concerned becaseu these will be going through a semi.

Anyone have any suggestions on setting up the resizing die...does 1/4 turn past shell holder contact sound right?

Thanks again, guys.

oldpapps
February 19, 2013, 01:18 PM
Sound good so far.

Hope you don't have a long drive to where you shoot.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Legion489
February 19, 2013, 01:23 PM
Well Oldpapps said everything I was going to say. The M1 Rifle (Garand) was designed for IMR4895 and I never saw any reason to change.

As to setting up dies, it depends. You see every company cuts theirs just a tiny bit differently and they want you to use their shell holders w/their dies for this reason. 1/4 turn might be ideal, or it might be totally wrong! There is only one way to find out what works with YOUR dies and YOUR shell holders and YOUR chambers, and that is to try it. First try the directions for your dies and see what happens, THEN try other things. I would bet serious money that 99.99% of "accidents" are caused by some fool that "just knows better than the manufacturer" and has to do it the way THEY want, not the way they are suppose to.

ArchAngelCD
February 19, 2013, 02:15 PM
Thanks, guys.

I was just looking over my HXP brass and noticed there are three stakes on the primer pocket. Am I going to need to ream those off before I re-prime or are they an issue?
That brass has a very shallow crimp and can sometimes be reprimed without removing the crimp but I don't usually try that.

If you want a very good tool and you have a single stage press you can but the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Tool (https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=6211&route=C11J170) which works extremely well and it's very easy to use. You can find it for around $10 less than on the RCBS site on the online sites.

Mustang51
February 21, 2013, 08:31 PM
Got to the range today and tested my reloads.

I brought my two 6.0 million Garands and a 4.3 mil SA.

The 46.0 grain 4064 load performed best in all the rifles...

Garand 6.089xxx...which appears to be the most accurate of the three...

45.5 grs
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/9111fb8f-be51-47d2-9cd0-c3c53fadd904_zps0ff2d5bb.jpg

46.0grs
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/1da9b70f-1010-42b8-ab01-fc96372613ba_zps7b323143.jpg

46.5 grs
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo32/grant729/f2643f12-368e-4546-a7b6-5ae8ee17bb54_zpsf46c3ae1.jpg

A-FIXER
February 22, 2013, 02:03 AM
Do clean the necks and lube before you resize the brass as this will help your expander not to stretch the neck and messing with your day when on the range. Actually it should be done with all bottleneck cartridge cases takes alittle more time but in the end is worth it.

Mustang51
February 22, 2013, 09:40 AM
What is the best way to lube the inside of the necks?

1KPerDay
February 22, 2013, 12:36 PM
Best is a relative term. I just scrape a bit of the imperial sizing wax that accumulates on my fingers across the open mouth of the first, and then every 4th or 5th case while sizing a batch. Keeps the expander ball sufficiently lubed.

You can also use spray lube at a 45 degree angle across a batch of brass in a loading tray, or use a neck brush or q-tip to do them each individually.

A-FIXER
February 22, 2013, 10:13 PM
I use a Qtip...and hornadys case lube

cfullgraf
February 22, 2013, 10:51 PM
What is the best way to lube the inside of the necks?

I use Imperial Sizing Wax on a 30 caliber brush for 30-06 case mouths. Bout every 4th or 5th case.

Be careful not to get any on the outside of the neck. It can build up in the die and cause hydraulic dents in the shoulder.

The dents are not the end of the world, they just look bad.

The other suggestions for lubricating the necks sound good as well.

Mustang51
February 22, 2013, 10:55 PM
I just scrape a bit of the imperial sizing wax that accumulates on my fingers across the open mouth of the first, and then every 4th or 5th case while sizing a batch.

I tried this technique today and it worked pretty well.

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