Guns and Ammo, as currency


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gym
February 18, 2013, 04:47 PM
The more I speak to people as of late, the more I realize that I am no longer in the minority. That being those who think that an event of some kind will eventually happen. I don't know or wish to get into what that might be, and really am not concerned with when it is, only that more people feel it's coming.
that being said "true or not", it seems that a good pile of ammo is a better hedge against any such incident than any other type of commodity. You can't shoot gold, maybe silver, but that would get expensive fast, "unless you were the Lone Ranger".
So in the future, "that being anytime from here on out", it would make sense to invest any spare money in ammo. You can barter with it, shoot your dinner with it and save your life with it. None of those things can be done with cash, if we experience a further devaluation of our currency for any reason.
This may be true indeed if nothing happens. Just the Govt. tightening availability of our ammo in an attempt to control our guns.
So let's look back a couple years from now and see what ammo costs adjusted for inflation etc. I think that if you bought 50 thousand worth of various popular pistol and rifle ammo, you might be able to double your money in 2 years. I hope I am wrong but it will be interesting to watch. Also black market ammo sales, "if such a thing exists yet". It may pay to reload and sell ammo "not suggesting anyone does this, as it's not legal", but so is "pot", and we see how folks in some states get around that law.
You could probably set up a business that reloads ammo and almost double your money ,"or close to it" right now.
It doesn't look like this ammo and gun hoarding is going away anytime soon, so it would make sense that ammo is only going higher.
So with not overthinking this "tends to kill a good idea", this may be a good way to make some money with not too much effort, "even buying it now, buy the case, or pallett, and just holding on and selling it in increments.,"as allowed by law". I don't know which license you would need for that, but surelly you would need one, explosive devices etc. Good idea or not?, maybe we start an ammo bank.
That could be a good idea also, you kick in 50 dollars a month,and down the road you can still get your ammo at the old price or sell it to others at a higher price? As we have seen, folks will pay rediculous prices for things, and those things won't be very much good if you can't feed them.
It's so simple it might work, the guy who pays 3-5 thousand for a rifle that costs a thousand is usually the same guy who doesn't reload, so they will need ammo at some point. Now don't forget most folks are not like members here, they just want an AR because they are being told that semi auto's, and who knows what else, will be banned and especially military style rifles, so they may just have a passing interest, until they make the first large purchase.
PS: write another letter today, to your Reps, we are not finished yet, thanks,
Gym

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Cosmoline
February 18, 2013, 05:00 PM
It's already used as currency up here in AK. People "buy" cars, ATV's and other things with all or part guns & ammo. Certain kinds of ammo, provided they're factory, are well known enough and popular enough to constitute a kind of currency. Same thing with certain firearms. And while you could conceivably "forge" factory ammo, it's very tough to "forge" a Glock 19. Or factory primers for that matter.

Solo
February 18, 2013, 05:06 PM
In the THQ videogame Metro 2033, ammunition is used as currency. That is the extend of useful information I have on this topic.

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/17172/1306122-metro2033_ammo.png

Ignition Override
February 18, 2013, 05:25 PM
My 1,800 rd. heap of surplus 8mm Mauser is sitting here, waiting for a potential trade FTF in west TN, yet to be determined.
You don't need to speak Czech or Serbo-Croatian to understand this currency.

AlexanderA
February 18, 2013, 05:44 PM
Any usable commodity can be used for barter. Guns and ammo are only two of several choices.

rodinal220
February 18, 2013, 06:30 PM
Jeff Cooper stated that ammo would be "ballistic wampum".

taliv
February 18, 2013, 06:40 PM
currency has several roles. two important ones are a medium of exchange and a store of value.

note that if you are attempting to store value in ammo, you would be well advised not to buy it during a panic and the highest price it's ever been in history. maybe next year's price is higher. but odds are, it goes down in price from here when the panic is over.

dirtengineer
February 18, 2013, 07:16 PM
The more hoarders there are, the lower the value will be.

SharpsDressedMan
February 18, 2013, 07:23 PM
Back it up with toilet paper. Everyone is going to need that!

gspn
February 18, 2013, 07:54 PM
I think you are still very much in the minority. You need to talk to more people...you are likely seeing the results of sampling bias. If you are only talking to like minded people then sure...you could start to think that you are among the majority.

But talk to a wider group of people and you will likely see that most people don't think the way you do. I'm not saying your thoughts are right or wrong...just that you seem to be drawing a conclusion from a biased sample...such as a gun forum.

If you want to check yourself then go register on some different forums...like a mountain biking forum, a sailing forum, a soccer mom forum...places that cut a wider swath of the population at large...and ask those groups if they think that ammo is a good form of currency.

As an example...I like boats. If I hung out at the boat ramp and asked people if they liked boats I'd come to the conclusion that I'm in the majority...everyone likes boats. But the sample is so obviously biased that my conclusion can't be relied upon.

ID-shooting
February 18, 2013, 07:59 PM
"Guns and Ammo, as currency"

SWEET! I got a hole pile of old read magazines in the garage, how many will it take to buy a new AR?

huntsman
February 18, 2013, 08:06 PM
Back it up with toilet paper. Everyone is going to need that!
TP for the fairer sex will make you more than ammo ;)

BSA1
February 18, 2013, 09:29 PM
What you are referring to is simply the oldest economic system in the world…bartering.

History has shown repeatedly how quickly paper currency can become worthless and how precarious our country’s current economic system is. If your goal is to barter for what you need with ammunition the more different calibers you have will improve your ability to barter. More calibers, more inventory, more money invested.

While I have considered myself to be self-reliant I recently realized I was not self-sufficient. Since it is very difficult to be truly self-sufficient I believe it is wiser to have multiple items for bartering rather than just one in the event of a economic collapse. Since eating guns and ammo is a bit hard to chew and digest growing a large garden, fruit trees, raising chickens, etc. are practical ideas.

While I think your idea has merit the old country saying “don’t put all your eggs in one basket” is well worth considering.

Oh, T.P is a excellent investment idea.

MachIVshooter
February 19, 2013, 02:29 AM
I personally think ammo is (or was, until 2 months ago) about the most stabile investment one can make, and one likely to yield decent returns. In one decade, I watched .308 case surplus go from $150 to over $500, and commercial brass cased .223 jump from $175/1000 to $350+/1000 - and that was before the panic.

As for it being a common currency, though, we're talking post-apocalyptic. Right now it's useful in bartering with other shooters that need it. You cannot plunk down 8 boxes of 5.56mm as consideration for your groceries; the high school junior cashier would just look at you like you've got three eyes and a horn.

I've done plenty of bartering with guns and ammo, both as the buyer and the seller. But at the moment, that substantially narrows your options. If you're looking to buy a used car on craigslist, you'll be much better off with greenbacks. They're lighter, too!

BSA1
February 19, 2013, 10:27 AM
As for it being a common currency, though, we're talking post-apocalyptic.

I disagree. As recently as the Great Depression in the 1930's in the United States paper currency was hard to come by with as much of the population out of work. Bartering items and services was very common to get what you needed.

Bear in mind the United States did not have the crime problem it has now. Sadly events like Hurricane Katrina shows what happen when law enforcement services break down.

Many financial experts are warning that our country is close to economic collapse due to out of control government spending and taxation. One only has to look at how much the price of gasoline has jumped in the pasted few days to get a good idea of how quickly things can cave in.

gym
February 19, 2013, 01:46 PM
When ever you make a large purchase of a volitile commodity, you do it "averaging in", like stocks. If you intended to aquire ammo, of course now would not be the most opertune time to make one large purchase. You should however note that picking "bottoms, and tops" in any market is impossible.
That said you would average in, say over a 1-2 year period, thus your end result would be a more stable price.
For all we know it may go straight up or straight down from here. Thus as with any purchase of any valuable asset, you start in increments. This way you can't get hurt should you have overpaid at some point.
As for comparing ammo to toilet paper goes, it's obvious that you aren't understanding the basic premis of the topic. You would be very much able to do without toilet paper or snow boards should something really terrible happen, ammo is a bit different.
Gas hit 4 dollars a gallon for regular this morning, that is not a good sign, economiclly we are in sad shape, one push and it's going to be a big mess.

Njal Thorgeirsson
February 19, 2013, 02:49 PM
I think overall, its not a bad idea to stock up on things like ammunition of a popular caliber (.308, .30-06, .22 or .223), or brass and bullets (it might be hard to resell powder/primers without losing money), as they don't usually decrease in value, and if so, the decrease is not significant. IF and ONLY IF you buy at pre-panic prices, that is.

I definitely don't think the majority of people in the US think something like the apocalypse is coming anytime soon.

I think a small portion of people generally believe that one can learn from history- civilizations rise and fall. To think we are immune is stupid- we need the second amendment for that very reason. Most people in Rome, Europe (just prior to WWI and WWII) probably though they were about as immune as most people today in America do.

But i think the portion of people who actually think something really bad is quickly approaching are in an extreme minority.

huntsman
February 19, 2013, 03:30 PM
I stock ammo because I want to shoot my guns right up to the end, the only ammo I’d be willing to barter is .22LR and I’ve bought some just for that purpose.

philobeddoe
February 19, 2013, 03:42 PM
firearms, ammunition, coffee, tobacco, liquor, toilet paper

Plan2Live
February 19, 2013, 06:49 PM
Gold is hovering around $1,600 per ounce right now. I bought 100 round boxes of CCI Mini Mag .22 Long Rifle this weekend for about $8 per box including tax. So I could buy 200 boxes (20,000) rounds of CCI Mini Mags or I could buy one ounce of gold. Given the OP's scenario I believe the ammo would be much more desireable than the gold and much easier to break into smaller portions to trade for smaller items.

Even today with the ATMs up and running and the store shelves fully stocked with food and toilet paper I could trade .22 ammo for other commodities easier than I could trade gold for the same commodities.

I'll take door number .22!

def4pos8
February 19, 2013, 07:22 PM
philobeddoe is RIGHT! Diversify. Don't limit yourself to ammunition and firearms.

Whiskey, vodka, toothpaste, salt, soap, beans, TP, trash bags, paper towel, potable water, industrial bleach, analgesics, medical items of all types -- any and all of this stuff will become as valuable as any gold or silver you might have around. :(

Spymaster
February 19, 2013, 08:03 PM
The more I speak to people as of late, the more I realize that I am no longer in the minority. That being those who think that an event of some kind will eventually happen. I don't know or wish to get into what that might be, and really am not concerned with when it is, only that more people feel it's coming.
that being said "true or not", it seems that a good pile of ammo is a better hedge against any such incident than any other type of commodity. You can't shoot gold, maybe silver, but that would get expensive fast, "unless you were the Lone Ranger".
So in the future, "that being anytime from here on out", it would make sense to invest any spare money in ammo. You can barter with it, shoot your dinner with it and save your life with it. None of those things can be done with cash, if we experience a further devaluation of our currency for any reason.
This may be true indeed if nothing happens. Just the Govt. tightening availability of our ammo in an attempt to control our guns.
So let's look back a couple years from now and see what ammo costs adjusted for inflation etc. I think that if you bought 50 thousand worth of various popular pistol and rifle ammo, you might be able to double your money in 2 years. I hope I am wrong but it will be interesting to watch. Also black market ammo sales, "if such a thing exists yet". It may pay to reload and sell ammo "not suggesting anyone does this, as it's not legal", but so is "pot", and we see how folks in some states get around that law.
You could probably set up a business that reloads ammo and almost double your money ,"or close to it" right now.
It doesn't look like this ammo and gun hoarding is going away anytime soon, so it would make sense that ammo is only going higher.
So with not overthinking this "tends to kill a good idea", this may be a good way to make some money with not too much effort, "even buying it now, buy the case, or pallett, and just holding on and selling it in increments.,"as allowed by law". I don't know which license you would need for that, but surelly you would need one, explosive devices etc. Good idea or not?, maybe we start an ammo bank.
That could be a good idea also, you kick in 50 dollars a month,and down the road you can still get your ammo at the old price or sell it to others at a higher price? As we have seen, folks will pay rediculous prices for things, and those things won't be very much good if you can't feed them.
It's so simple it might work, the guy who pays 3-5 thousand for a rifle that costs a thousand is usually the same guy who doesn't reload, so they will need ammo at some point. Now don't forget most folks are not like members here, they just want an AR because they are being told that semi auto's, and who knows what else, will be banned and especially military style rifles, so they may just have a passing interest, until they make the first large purchase.
PS: write another letter today, to your Reps, we are not finished yet, thanks,
Gym
Its already currency, as it should be, here's a great bit of wisdom for you, gleened from an excellent posting in a recently closed thread, hopefully it will reach out and slap some sense into a few of the foolish youngsters around these parts.

Once there lived an ant and a grasshopper in a grassy meadow.

All day long the ant would work hard, collecting grains of wheat from the farmer's field far away. She would hurry to the field every morning, as soon as it was light enough to see by, and toil back with a heavy grain of wheat balanced on her head. She would put the grain of wheat carefully away in her larder, and then hurry back to the field for another one. All day long she would work, without stop or rest, scurrying back and forth from the field, collecting the grains of wheat and storing them carefully in her larder.

The grasshopper would look at her and laugh. 'Why do you work so hard, dear ant?' he would say. 'Come, rest awhile, listen to my song. Summer is here, the days are long and bright. Why waste the sunshine in labour and toil?'

The ant would ignore him, and head bent, would just hurry to the field a little faster. This would make the grasshopper laugh even louder. 'What a silly little ant you are!' he would call after her. 'Come, come and dance with me! Forget about work! Enjoy the summer! Live a little!' And the grasshopper would hop away across the meadow, singing and dancing merrily.

Summer faded into autumn, and autumn turned into winter. The sun was hardly seen, and the days were short and grey, the nights long and dark. It became freezing cold, and snow began to fall.

The grasshopper didn't feel like singing any more. He was cold and hungry. He had nowhere to shelter from the snow, and nothing to eat. The meadow and the farmer's field were covered in snow, and there was no food to be had. 'Oh what shall I do? Where shall I go?' wailed the grasshopper. Suddenly he remembered the ant. 'Ah - I shall go to the ant and ask her for food and shelter!' declared the grasshopper, perking up. So off he went to the ant's house and knocked at her door. 'Hello ant!' he cried cheerfully. 'Here I am, to sing for you, as I warm myself by your fire, while you get me some food from that larder of yours!'

The ant looked at the grasshopper and said, 'All summer long I worked hard while you made fun of me, and sang and danced. You should have thought of winter then! Find somewhere else to sing, grasshopper! There is no warmth or food for you here!' And the ant shut the door in the grasshopper's face.

It is wise to worry about tomorrow today.

caribou
February 20, 2013, 05:23 AM
Ive been sayin' for YEARS, that .22LR is gonna be on of the Currencys ofthe Future. Ammo is always a worthy investment, and viable in trade, especcially in calibers you have but do not have guns for.

One of my favorite quotes came from a school teacher, who lived in Whales Alaska among Inupiaq Hunters in the Village of Kaviak in 1885.
He noted in a report to his boss's back in D.C. that due to the ban he could not bring to Alaska neither Alcohol of any sort, nor a repeating Rifle, not a pistol, nor fixxed ammunition for the guns, even for his own consumption, despite his being 'White'.(there was a prohibition at the time, these articals were not allowed to be traded or sold or possessed by "Indians") however, he noted, he could get all he wanted or could ever need from his Eskimo neighbors.

~~LOL!!~~

vito
February 20, 2013, 08:13 AM
A few years ago I thought I had enough ammo if I had 2 boxes of 50 rounds of each caliber that I shoot, plus a brick of 500 22lr. I would go to the range, shoot a few boxes worth, then stop at the store and buy enough for the next range trip. Somewhere along the way I started getting nervous about ammo shortages, and liked the comforting sight of having 500 to 750 rounds of each caliber, rather than 100, and suddenly even 2500 lr seemed inadequate. Thinking about the possible challenges of the future make me want to raise my stock level of ammo, but I am starting to think that I will reach a point of feeling that no amount is enough, and then what's next, keep buying but stop shooting? A little voice in my head is also laughing and saying "Just keep buying, stockpiling, reloading and admiring your cache, and then when you drop dead of a heart attack, your wife or kids will sell it off for pennies just to get rid of all of it!". I think this easily can become an obsession. That said, if the SHTF for real, I can't think of anything that I would want more than some good guns and tons of ammo. One way or another, guns and ammo will get me everything else I will need for my family to survive, something that can't be said for gold, silver, or a healthy statement from an investment account.

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