Hk p7 ????


PDA






rcmodel
February 18, 2013, 09:34 PM
How necessary is the gas cylinder scraper tool and the firing pin tool to a P7 owner?

A friend bought one at a gun show yesterday, but didn't know about the tools that should have come with it.
And he didn't get them.

Seems to me a bore brush would clean the gas cylinder, and a coin would remove the firing pin assembly just fine.

What say you P7 owners??

rc

If you enjoyed reading about "Hk p7 ????" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
hAkron
February 18, 2013, 10:19 PM
Top gun supply sells one as well
http://www.topgunsupply.com/hk-p7-brushes-scrapers/
It's expensive for what it is, but the gas port gets really dirty really fast. If he's going to shoot it much, it's a must. You can get away with a .270 bore brush once its scraped.

Also, it's said that the after market scrapers are not good. I have no experience.

The firing pin tool is unnessasary.

bannockburn
February 18, 2013, 11:18 PM
The scraper and a bore brush are a must as I remember the gas port getting really dirty after firing just 100 rounds at the range.

kBob
February 18, 2013, 11:53 PM
rc,

The origial PSP did not come with a cylinder scraper. I did just fine without one for hundreds or perhaps a thousand rounds without problem.....

Then one day, fortunately on the range goofing off, the slide stopped going back far enough to pick up the next cartridge. I used a worn out .30 cal bore brush and then a sloted wooden stick with a piece of the old lead out cloth through it on a hand drill, then another stick with a piece just shoved in under the tip of the stick.

After that I took more effort to check and clean the cylinder and the piston.

It was my favorite 9 silly meter. It was stolen and I can but hope the thugs sold it to some folks that eventually got it to a good guy that appreciates it.....or they paniced and threw it in the St. John's River and no thug has it.

Mine had the odd magazine release, not the thin pull back or wide pull back but the German police thin lever one pinched forward. Liked it much better than the other European type releases. Never seen another like it in the US. The model was in use by Hessan dog handlers and under cover in 1981. I carried it in a BDU blouse waist pocket between two pieces of card board so it looked like a note book. It never got noticed, unlike my second favorite 9 silly meter a CZ75 in either an M7 chest holster or a 1911 swivel type "Cav" holster. I hated the 1912/1914 issue holster as it got caught in the seat of the old Mutt Jeeps on exit and just seemed n the way most of the time. The P7 was never in the way either in the pocket or in a little "bikini" belt slide under my BDU or Dress Greens. Handy little beast.

Dispite my reputation as a .45ACP nut I never felt under armed with the P7 with a mag full +1 of CorBon's finest or the cheaper Silver Tips. The wife used the gun in Mas Ayoob's LFI 1 course and did well with it, except the one session she locked it in the car and had to use Mas' snubbie Python. The woman was spoiled I tell you......

-kBob

blackhawk44
February 19, 2013, 01:11 AM
kBob, its mate is hanging in a very worn Jackass shoulder rig in my safe. Found it just after they were announced for U.S. sale. Serial number 9XXX. Small pinch release and all. It will be in my estate.

kBob
February 19, 2013, 08:25 AM
Blackhawk44,

So how is your health and have you named an executor yet? :D

I almost bought one of the New Jersey police trade ins with the wide "Ruger Mark I" style of mag release but appearently eating and paying the mortgage was even more important to my wife than replacing the P7. It had been "her's" after that LFI1 class and she was distraught at it being stolen, but ended up choosing to replace it with a lower priced spread when she found out what they cost (mine was cheap having been imported on a Form 6A sans tax and tariff) and what a 2 1/2 inch python with a custom old style PPC trigger job cost.

If you offered me one of anything HK ever built I would pick the clone of that missing PSP. Yep I know a PSG or a MP10 wouldbe cool and worth more bucks but I own guns to use and the PSP was flat usable.

-kBob

C0untZer0
February 19, 2013, 09:14 AM
I've never brushed out the gas tube, I don't brush it out but I clean the tube with small patch after I shoot it, and my P7M8 works fine. I've been shooting it since 1985.

I've only shot quality commercial ammo in it. The only foriegn ammo I've ever fired through it was Fiocci.

Maybe if you fire dirty ammo through it the gas tube would need more attention.

usp9
February 19, 2013, 10:41 AM
The manual recommends the scraper be used every 500 rounds. I use an aftermarket tool and it works just fine. Lots of crud comes out after hundreds of rounds. I'd advise your friend find one, HK or aftermarket. The aftermarket scraper I own is also a firing pin bushing removal tool. Two birds with one stone.

There's little need to take the bushing apart though. A good cleaning every 1000 rounds or so should suffice.

There is a ton of info online for the P7. It's a peculiar gun that is just different enough that owners need to know how to care for them correctly.

Gunbroker has a couple scrapers and brushes for sale now. I didn't see a bushing tool. The old two prong type key, used on trigger locks, also works as a bushing tool.

Pilot
February 19, 2013, 03:50 PM
Yes, the scraper tool and the brush are both MUST HAVE items. Pay the money and get them.

Onmilo
February 19, 2013, 04:46 PM
I just use the little brass scraper from an Otis accessory kit and a nylon .25 caliber bore brush, they work just fine at getting excess crud out of the piston area.

Havok7416
February 19, 2013, 05:16 PM
RC am I to understand that there is something in the gun universe you are not an expert on? My world has been turned upside down!:uhoh:

On a slightly more serious note, I am just beginning to run into problems with my P7 not locking back and sticking after almost 1,000 rounds through it. I am looking at getting the appropriate tools but I can and do get by with Hoppe's #9 and a cleaning brush for the piston itself. I will have to get a brush to get into the piston housing but there are many things besides the factory tools that will get this done. Hope this helps!

oneounceload
February 19, 2013, 06:23 PM
RC, the regular brush has the tip with just the wire that the bristles are wound through, thus it does not clean the end of the chamber well at all. A dental pick might suffice, as might a drill bit with a flat edge; otherwise the scraper is the tool

What I have used in a pinch is a tight-fitting patch soaked in solvent and a long metal dental tool. I push the soaked patch all the way in the piston area, let it sit, then use the tool to scrape a little bit as it snags the patch and pull it out. A blast from canned air helps afterwards

HKGuns
February 19, 2013, 08:00 PM
RC, it is VERY necessary. You can never really get the gas port clean without it. Trust me on this one......

tarosean
February 19, 2013, 08:23 PM
RC am I to understand that there is something in the gun universe you are not an expert on? My world has been turned upside down!



Glad to see I wasnt the only one...:D

rcmodel
February 19, 2013, 09:51 PM
Well see, I've been meaning to buy an HK squeeze-cocker for about 30 years and gain some personal experience.

But they were always well out of my budget after the old Colt's, & S&W's, & Winchesters, & Brownings I had to have first.

Now, I can't afford the extra HK P7 magazines I would have to have to feel secure with a 9mm!! :D

rc

9mmepiphany
February 19, 2013, 10:51 PM
I have one of the original P7s (what folks like to call the PSP) from when they were $400. Back then they cam in a cardboard box and only came with a brass brush for the gas cylinder (.25") and the striker assembly take-down tool.

The brush kept the cylinder clean enough that when I bought an aftermarket scraper (from Cult of the P7) years later, there was hardly anything scraped out when I used it.

A coin will not work for removal of the striker assembly. The rear of the striker needs to be brought back (with the squeeze cocker) flush with the rear surface of the collar, before the collar can be turned...it is like the magazine release of a 1911. However, if you bring the striker back flush, you can use your thumb to press down and turn the collar...the flesh of you thumb will fill the recesses and gain you purchase.

The later M8 and M13 version did not use the take-down tool as the collar was extended out the rear of the slide.

I think the magazines for the P7 have stabilized at about $50

Peter M. Eick
February 20, 2013, 08:46 PM
As a 3 P7 owner, I concur. You can easily clean it with a brush but the scraper does get a bit more.

Avoid plated and lead bullets and you won't have many problems that a brush can't fix. Experience is a painful teacher sum days....

Havok7416
February 21, 2013, 05:20 AM
What's wrong with plated bullets? I use them all the time with no problems.

Pilot
February 21, 2013, 07:57 AM
I use Rainier and Berry's plated bullets in my P7's and USP Tac also with no issues.

hAkron
February 22, 2013, 08:21 AM
As long as you don't shear the jacket from the plated bullets. There shouldn't be an issue. Lead is a big no no as it will make a mess of the gas piston system.

Also I remember reading somewhere that 147gr bullets are too heavy for this gun.

9mmepiphany
February 22, 2013, 02:41 PM
Also I remember reading somewhere that 147gr bullets are too heavy for this gun.
The P7 came on the market before the introduction of the 147gr slugs into the LE market...it was designed for a specific application for the military...and H&K issued a warning about using them in the P7 and the MP-5 due to the different recoil characteristics

Toml
February 22, 2013, 03:17 PM
The scraper is chisel shaped. Haven't seen another tool like it.

usp9
February 23, 2013, 10:58 AM
and H&K issued a warning about using them in the P7

I've read a lot of opinions posted on forums concerning this matter but I've never seen a comment from HK regarding a warning about 147gr ammo. Can you reference this?

FWIW; 147gr works fine in my P7.

9mmepiphany
February 23, 2013, 03:39 PM
No, I can't. It was in the mid-80s, while the FBI were adopting the sub-sonic 147gr slug in response to the Miami Shootout.

I was attending a departmental qualification class to qualify to carry a personally owned P7 as a duty gun. The Range Master teaching the class mentioned that H&K had sent around a notice (I'm assuming by snail mail) to give departments who used their products (We were using the MP-5) notice that they had encountered function issues with the sub-sonic 147gr slugs in their LE offerings (at the time that was the: 91, 93, MP-5, P7 M8/13). Their request was that users who encountered additional problems should bring it to the attention of the company. It was at the same time they warned us not to shoot Winchester Silvertips through the P7...that had been out departmental issued ammo.

I didn't ask to see the notice, I just wanted to get through the class, get qualified and carry my pistol. I had no intention of carrying the 147gr bullets in my gun anyway

alienbogey
February 23, 2013, 07:05 PM
I find the scraper to be absolutely essential. I can go an absolute maximum of 500 rounds without cleaning the cylinder, and prefer to do it after 250.

I used an aftermarket scraper tool for a while, but it seemed to be made of a soft alloy because after awhile it definitely got loose in the cylinder. I finally sucked it up and bought a factory scraper and it got gunk out that the worn aftermarket scraper missed.

The factory scraper appears to me to be made of harder stuff and shows no sign of wear yet.

To get the cylinder really clean I'll use a combination of the scraper, the brush, and a patch, but the scraper is the most important.

Deputy25
February 24, 2013, 07:41 PM
My P7 PSPs work just fine with 147. When I carry one of them I load it with Federal 9BPLE.

HKGuns
February 24, 2013, 09:52 PM
I've read a lot of opinions posted on forums concerning this matter but I've never seen a comment from HK regarding a warning about 147gr ammo. Can you reference this?

Kurtz worked for HK and is extremely knowledgeable. As close as you're going to get to "facts" from HK regarding P7's and 147gr ammo. It also speaks to the need for the gas tube scraper, although not directly. The bottom line is that you run 147gr in your P7 at your own risk (reliability). I do not use it for carry when carrying one of my P7's.

**NOTE** That is an old thread, so don't go posting in it and inadvertently create a *NECRO-Thread.

Click (http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/77692-p7-jammed-please-help.html#post575955)

There is more here....

Click (http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/106213-so-why-p7-so-great-2.html#post784361)

9mmepiphany
February 24, 2013, 10:35 PM
Kurtz worked for HK and is extremely knowledgeable.
That sounded like a pretty definitive answer about the problem with 147gr slugs and also a reminder not to shoot lead bullets in your P7.

An important point he brings up which hasn't been mentioned here yet is the cleaning of the gas piston. It should only be done with a nylon brush and solvent...never a metal brush. It is one of those parts where over cleaning is a bad thing. What you want to avoid is rounding off the edges of the rings on the piston...as it compromises your gas system

usp9
February 25, 2013, 08:39 AM
Kurtz worked for HK and is extremely knowledgeable.

That is a true statement, however the fact remains that HK has yet to make a public comment on 147gr ammo problems. I might add that IIRC Bruce Gray, who also worked for HK and is pretty knowledgable, used 147gr ammo in competition. He has participated in this debate on HKPro on occation.

This is a debate that will continue forever, no definitive answer, as there are two sides that can neither prove nor disprove their position. It's a personal choice. An opinion.

CPshooter
February 25, 2013, 09:09 AM
It should only be done with a nylon brush and solvent...never a metal brush.I believe they even recommend against using ANY type of hard-bristle brush, including nylon. You are supposed to just soak it in solvent and/or oil and wipe it down the best you can with a patch. I use Q-tips to help get in between the rings a bit better when there is excessive build up. Been tempted to use a nylon brush, but I'll stick with what H&K tells me to do. It's a little more time consuming to do it the right way, but I find that I can still get the piston VERY clean if I really want to.

Onmilo
February 25, 2013, 10:57 AM
Use a super hard scraper but don't use a nylon brush.
Can use 147 grain bullets, H&K does not recommend.
This thread gets more bizzare with each passing day.
I'm going to stick with my .270 nylon brush and my Otis scraper, and since I hate 147 grain 9mm loads, no worries there.

usp9
February 25, 2013, 01:13 PM
An important point he brings up which hasn't been mentioned here yet is the cleaning of the gas piston. It should only be done with a nylon brush and solvent...never a metal brush. It is one of those parts where over cleaning is a bad thing. What you want to avoid is rounding off the edges of the rings on the piston...as it compromises your gas system

One of my P7s had a heavily carboned piston that was made almost new by means of a $1.00 purchase from Walmart. I bought a thin glass vase, about 7" tall and 1" in diamenter. I would fill the vase with Slip 2000 Carbon Killer and simply hang the slide on the vase, with the piston inside, and let the Carbon Killer do it's work. After a few "treatments" and soft brushing with a toothbush, the piston looked 100% better.

Just a suggestion for a cheap, easy and effective way to pamper the piston. When I'm finished with the soak, I pour the liquid back into the original jar and reuse it over again. Very little is lost. Here's a pic of the cleaned piston. No before pic, but it was bad.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Pistols/Heckler%20Koch/007.jpg

9mmepiphany
February 25, 2013, 04:44 PM
I would fill the vase with Slip 2000 Carbon Killer and simply hang the slide on the vase,That is a great suggestion. That has to be the cleanest gas piston I've ever seen.

Use a super hard scraper but don't use a nylon brush.
I gather you were being facetious, but to avoid confusion for the reader, I'll point out that the hard scraper is for the gas cylinder; while the soft brush is for the gas piston

HKGuns
February 25, 2013, 11:54 PM
This thread gets more bizzare with each passing day.

Huh? How exactly is it "bizarre"? The scraper is for the gas cylinder and the soft brush or dipping is for the gas piston.

The piston is pictured above in extremely clean condition. The gas cylinder is what the piston goes into and is not pictured in this thread.

rcmodel
February 26, 2013, 12:01 AM
Well, I want to thank everyone for all the great replies and suggestions.

So, I told my buddy with the P7 to just get a cheap Harbor Freight sand-blaster gun and Gofer It when the P7 stops up with carbon.

It is way cheaper then the official HK carbon scraper tool he doesn't want to spring for!!

:D:D:D:D

rc

HKGuns
February 26, 2013, 12:37 AM
Now that is Bizarre!

rcmodel
February 26, 2013, 12:47 AM
Well, it is an HK.
What could possibly go wrong?

And if it does, he can call customer service, and they won't help him.

Because they are HK, You suck, and They Hate You! :D

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/

rc

Onmilo
February 26, 2013, 03:29 AM
USP9 has about the best suggestion seen here yet.
The same carbon blaster can be sprayed on a nylon brush & swabbed into the gas cylinder & allowed to soak, then patched out.
It will also loosen the carbon deposits in the port.

And yeah, I'm way too cheap to spend $40 on a piece of hardened steel.

Pilot
February 26, 2013, 09:19 AM
HK customer service has come a long way. I wouldn't hesitate to call them or send them one of my HK's. The P7 is one of the best pistols ever made. A truly unique design that actually works.

HKGuns
February 26, 2013, 03:01 PM
Now you're just trolling for comments rc........

Peter M. Eick
February 28, 2013, 05:08 PM
USP9,

That is one clean piston. Mine only comes out that clean if I dump it in the ultrasonic.

Regarding the 147's. I load mild 147 XTP's and find they are exceptionally accurate. Better then almost any other bullet. Expensive, but extremely accurate in my 3 P7's. I would not hesitate to shoot 147's with mild reloads.

If you enjoyed reading about "Hk p7 ????" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!