AR10/7.62mm Which (fixed) power scope belongs this rifle?


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fnbrowning
February 19, 2013, 05:09 PM
For shooting .308 at ranges from not under 100 to not over 300 yards. Target shooting at paper from bench or a bipod. I want to stay with a fixed power scope only.

After much deliberation, I'm all set to pull the trigger on one of the redoubtable SWFA SS (fixed)x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescopes.

I know that the military has said "1x every 100yds" and guys are shooting 1000 yards with a fixed 10 power. And I understand police/SWAT don't go over 6x for 50 - 100yds.

But a recent conversation with another shooter, I mentioned I would also use the rifle/scope combination to check the accuracy of my load development, he then suggested going to a higher power in the SWFA line.

For those times I want to "aim small, miss small" for ammo testing has me reconsidering a little more power in the SFWA line.

QUESTION:
Can the avg. shooter get MOA at 100yd on 10x power for reloading development? Or do you need 12x or 16x?
I want to balance tactical rifle realism, FOV, Power, and Image Clarity.
SWFA SS 10x42 or SWFA SS 12x42 or SWFA SS 16x42??

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RangerHAAF
February 19, 2013, 05:14 PM
I top mine with a Millet. I'm partial to the German post reticle but this is as close as I can get to it in the States.

Sorry, I just read where u wanted a fixed power. They do stock a 10x also.

http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/dms/

fnbrowning
February 19, 2013, 05:39 PM
RangerHAAF;

Can you, or can we, expect the avg. shooter to get MOA at 100yd on just 10x power? Or do you need 12x or 16x?

Realistically, the tactical rifle needs to balance, FOV, Power, and Image Clarity.
So - Which one?
SWFA SS 10x42 or SWFA SS 12x42 or SWFA SS 16x42??

Haxby
February 19, 2013, 05:57 PM
4X is enough to shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. Lots of people have done it lots of times.
12X would be nice at 300, IMO.
For a practical tactical setup, it seems like the SWFA 6X would be worth consideration.

GI_Jared
February 19, 2013, 08:49 PM
10x is what most of the US military sniper rifles are set up with. This is also the power scope I was issued as designated marksmen for my M-14.

MrCleanOK
February 19, 2013, 09:49 PM
10x is plenty for shooting accurately at 300, possibly even overkill if you have good eyes. If you want to analyze your groups without doing downrange, get a dedicated spotting scope.

RangerHAAF
February 20, 2013, 05:35 AM
I agree with everyone here, 10x is more than enough magnification maybe too much depending on the range that you'll be shooting. I keep mine low because I live and hunt in the south and we shoot at much closer ranges(70-100 yards).

madcratebuilder
February 20, 2013, 06:50 AM
Burris 3200 10X, lot of the higher end features and low cost. SWFA SS 10X42 or 10X42HD. I use a 10X42M and it's a very good scope. More than enough magnification for 300+ yards.

The 10X scopes are great for ranging. a mil/mil is a plus for doing this.

fnbrowning
February 20, 2013, 08:22 AM
I'm getting so many good replies here! :)

Let me clarify that I wouldn't use the scope in lieu of a dedicated spotting scope, I have a good spotting scope.

By analysis of groups I explain by this example: My AR-15 has a Trijicon. My groups at 100yds were mearly adequate with that scope. But for checking the quality of my reloads, I needed to borrow a variable scope of higher power. With more magnification, my groups were tight enough to confirm my reloading progress.

NEW I found some through the scope images for the interested commenter. See here: SWFA Classic Scopes (http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-ss-classic-line-in-mil-mil_topic32195.html) If some of you have middle-age eyes, look at the 10x42 and 12x42 and let me know your thoughts on the clarity and FOV.
That's the comments I appreciate reading!

Thanks! :)

ronlassit
February 20, 2013, 01:44 PM
I'd check out the SWFA Super Sniper 10x42 rear focus model. Excellent scope for the money. I have one on a Savage 10 FCP .223 and really like it. I like the rear focus better than SF. Decent clarity excellent tracking and the thing is, to say the least, robust.

Z-Michigan
February 20, 2013, 03:13 PM
I would go 10x.

I own a SS 6x42 and briefly owned a 16x42 that I got on a trade. The 6x42 is good to my eyes. The 16x was not as clear as I would like and focus distance was very sensitive. I think it would make sense at 500+ yards in the desert, but not at shorter distances. As magnification goes up the optics need to be higher quality to perform well, and the $300 SS scopes are to me good quality at 6-10x, and I would guess at 12x, but beyond that I think is asking too much. (There are no $300 scopes that I would expect much from at more than 12x.)

CraigC
February 20, 2013, 03:57 PM
You can shoot MOA at 100yds with buckhorn sights if you and your rifle are up to it and if you match your sights to your target. Magnification does not make as much difference as people believe but it is greatly due to perception. Most don't bother shooting with iron sights at all and think they need gigantic scopes to shoot 1" groups at 100yds.

To answer your question, a 6x would probably be just fine and I certainly would not go over 10x.

hawk45
February 20, 2013, 04:39 PM
What is your overall purpose of this rifle first? Based on that answer you may need some things and not need others.

For instance, if you are hunting, FOV is important, high magnification isn't. Now I wouldn't want to lug a AR10 around to hunt, but to each his own.

If you are shooting for tiny groups, magnification is good, FOV is not important. Now you don't need 22x, but 12-15x is a good range.

Also, do you have a spotter? If not, you may want more magnification on your scope so you can see your hits. Seeing hits with a 10x at 300yds is pretty tough unless you are skilled enough to see your shots go down-range, and an AR10 has a longer recoil pulse so odds are not. You can get a separate spotting scope if need.

I prefer variables of good quality.. but I don't have the best. You can get good stuff in the $800- $1200 range. You don't need a 2K - 4K optic to start. If the $800 and up is too much, then look at the Weaver tactical 3-9 for about $300 (Midway USA). It gets great reviews and will allow to turn down and up as need. Fixed are good, but I prefer a nice variable if possible. The Bushnell and SWFA stuff is good.

fnbrowning
February 20, 2013, 04:58 PM
hawk45;

Purpose of the rifle:

As in the OP, For shooting .308 at ranges from not under 100 to not over 300 yards. Target shooting at paper from bench or a bipod.

How is my AR10A4 setup? In truth, like a Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR).

From Wikipedia >>" To supply rapid accurate fire on enemy targets at ranges up to 1,000 metres (in my dreams! :rolleyes:) with a rifle capable of semi-automatic fire called a designated marksman rifle equipped with a telescopic sight."<< For quick and precise shooting, but unlike the more specialized "true" sniper.

What ammuniton? I use 175 smk @ 2.80 OAL with 43.x of RL-15 to very closely duplicate the current loading for the M118LR Special Ball Long Range (LR).

Does this help? :D

Robert101
February 20, 2013, 09:34 PM
I know you asked specifically about a fixed power scope. My reply is off topic as my opinion is to purchase a variable power scope. I prefer the 6-18 variable for the range you specified. I would no more limit the adjustability of my scope as I would only shoot one load in my rifle - not that it is a bad thing. I realize that is an over simplification, but versatility in today's optics is not a compromise like it used to be in yester-years. You can get exceptional clarity in vaiable power scopes.

Cryogaijin
February 20, 2013, 11:16 PM
I don't have a specific recommendation for a scope, but for a feature: Getting a .308 calibrated scope rather than a general purpose scope is how I'd go.

allaroundhunter
February 20, 2013, 11:25 PM
10x is what most of the US military sniper rifles are set up with

Not anymore. Most military snipers are using variable power scopes.

To the OP: A 10x is perfect for what you are wanting, and is exactly what I would choose should I find myself in your shoes.

fnbrowning
February 23, 2013, 09:58 PM
I will not argue that at a reasonable power, the variable can be quite useful. But against all common sense, one tends to dial up to the max, or dial up and down the range too often, fiddling with the scope instead of shooting better.

I want to spend hard-earned cash on a scope of superior optics and design quality, and several posters want to recommend a variable. So I will put out a list of what I think would get be interested in considering a variable scope. I should tell you know that I have a Springfield Gov't Model 4x14-56 on the rifle now. I'm tired of it. It's TOO big and TOO heavy. The first 2 items below are firm, and the price has to be between $800 & $1599.

(1) Objective must be under 56mm.
(2) Lowest possible weight and length. Must be 14.5 or under.
(3) Parallax adjustment
(4) Mil-Quad Reticle

I know this is a lot to demand on a variable. But to be fair, I'm charmed by the SWFA SS 10x42HD with it's low 20oz weight and 13.5" length, and reasonable price.

Thanks!

Sock Puppet
February 24, 2013, 12:03 AM
I'd go with 10X.

hawk45
February 24, 2013, 09:29 AM
SWFA 3-9 would be perfect in a variable and meet all your requirements and be right at the $800 price point.. or less. In that price range you can pick one of 20 quality optics out there. Go over to Snipershide, they have a whole optics section you can ready for weeks and decide what works for you. You can pick from SWAF, Bushnell Elite, Vortex PST, Weaver Tactical, Nighforce.. all good stuff. Go hit the sights and compare size/weights, reticles and powers.. see what works for you.

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