10X Mil-Dots


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The_Armed_Therapist
February 20, 2013, 03:59 PM
I started researching these, but there are so many companies out there that I quickly became overwhelmed.

I'm looking at what's available in a fixed 10X scope with a Mil-Dot Reticle. I will pay enough to avoid junk, but to be honest, I plan to keep this as low as possible. I know that's vague, but since I'm not sure what all is out there, I can't really pinpoint a sure range. If there's a decent one in the $200-$300 range, that's likely what I'd be looking at. If those don't really exist, or are junk in that range, then I will pay more. So what all is out there? What are the options?

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esheato
February 20, 2013, 04:06 PM
USO has a fixed 10x. Upper end of pricing though.

Have you looked into Bushnell or Super Sniper?

Derek Zeanah
February 20, 2013, 04:11 PM
Do you need mildots? If you learned them in the service or something then I understand, but laser rangefinders work pretty well, and there are reticles that are cleaner that will give you accurate holds...

Outlaw Man
February 20, 2013, 05:41 PM
I haven't handled this one personally, but the Bushnell Elite Tactical 10x40 is in your price range. It's econd focal plane, though, if you're particular about that.

I've got an Elite Tactical in 3-12x44 and so far I am very happy with the optical quality. I haven't had it long enough to speak to any other qualities.

Derek Zeanah
February 20, 2013, 05:42 PM
It's second focal planeWon't matter in a fixed magnification scope.

And the Bushnell Elite line are quite nice.

Manny
February 20, 2013, 05:52 PM
SWFA has been selling 10x Super Sniper scopes for a lot of years and I've read countless good reviews of them. The only knock I ever heard against them is they used MOA turrets with a Mildot reticle. They recently introduced a new version with matching turrets and reticle both in Mils, which removes the only minor quibble in my eyes. I don't think you can do better for even considerably more money.

http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P53712.aspx

Outlaw Man
February 20, 2013, 08:25 PM
Won't matter in a fixed magnification scope.

Absolutely right. Thanks for catching that.

The_Armed_Therapist
February 20, 2013, 08:34 PM
Do you need mildots? If you learned them in the service or something then I understand, but laser rangefinders work pretty well, and there are reticles that are cleaner that will give you accurate holds...

Good question! I want one because I want to learn it. However, could you elaborate on "cleaner" and "more accurate" reticles?

The_Armed_Therapist
February 20, 2013, 08:42 PM
I will check out all of those mentioned. Thanks!

Derek Zeanah
February 20, 2013, 08:43 PM
However, could you elaborate on "cleaner" and "more accurate" reticles?

Not really, but I can show you: look here (http://www.700rifle.com/mil_dot_ranging.php) for one of the many online guides for using mil dots to range.

http://www.700rifle.com/images/mil_dot.jpg

The width of the dot is one angle of measurement, the spaces between them another, and so forth. It's elegant, but it's complex.

Here's something I consider simpler and easier to use:

http://www.eurooptic.com/images/reticles/US-Optics-MILGAP-Reticle.jpg

If you need to hold 2.5 mils off to compensate for wind, it's obvious on one, and it requires some thinking (at least for me) on the other.

Nothing wrong with a mil-dot. Nostalgic, useful, looks good, etc. But I guess my preferences differ. And often the mil-dot version of a scope will cost more.

The_Armed_Therapist
February 20, 2013, 08:49 PM
Oh, OK. I see what you mean. It essentially amounts to the same kind of system with the latter being, at least in your view, an improvement upon the original system. Is that an accurate summary of what you mean?

Derek Zeanah
February 20, 2013, 08:56 PM
Oh, OK. I see what you mean. It essentially amounts to the same kind of system with the latter being, at least in your view, an improvement upon the original system. Is that an accurate summary of what you mean?
All I'm trying to say is that if you're ranging a target that you believe to be 20" wide, then having a bunch of different ways to measure its width in your scope so you can be as precise as possible is a good thing. And the mil dot reticle allows you to do that in a way that many seem to really prefer. It was also in use before laser rangefinders (much less used $350 rangefinders that can accurately range at a kilometer) existed.

So there's an art to it.

Me? I don't need that. I'll use the reticle to hold a bit over/under to compensate for the 830 yard shot when my data table only has 800 or 850 yards to choose from and the target is small. Or to hold off to adjust for wind. I don't need to be able to determine what fraction of a mil a pair of shoulders are wide (or a deer is tall) in order to guestimate range.

I suppose I'm saying a mil dot is for ranging. If you don't need to range, and you're not enamored with the look, then something else might be easier to work with.

Derek Zeanah
February 20, 2013, 08:58 PM
And all this is opinion, and just because I've done some long range shooting doesn't make me an expert. Someone will come along to show that I'm an idiot, but at least you can see where I'm coming from.

The_Armed_Therapist
February 20, 2013, 11:32 PM
Thank you very much for your knowledge, Derek. It's much appreciated! I'm not sure why anyone would call you an idiot for trying to help someone! :)

I suppose I'm saying a mil dot is for ranging. If you don't need to range, and you're not enamored with the look, then something else might be easier to work with.

I'm looking into a mil-dot for the very purpose of ranging, or rather, learning how to do so.

The_Armed_Therapist
February 21, 2013, 10:00 AM
So which is "better," the Bushnell Elite Tactical or the SWFA Super Sniper?

hunttheevil
February 21, 2013, 10:23 AM
I would go with the Bushnell. I've been impressed with their glass lately.

hunttheevil
February 21, 2013, 10:28 AM
Not at all Derek. Most all of the questions have been answered here. Eventhough there is modern equipment that is more user friendly, the OP wants to go old school and learn the mil-dot system. It will take awhile to learn the mil-dot and I would get my skill set down on target practice before I tried any future long range hunting.

Outlaw Man
February 21, 2013, 11:42 AM
It will take awhile to learn the mil-dot and I would get my skill set down on target practice before I tried any future long range hunting.
+1. I'd hate to wound an animal just because I didn't practice enough.

I've never handled the SWFA, so I can't say which is better.

The_Armed_Therapist
February 21, 2013, 12:13 PM
I'm not personally a big fan of long-range hunting. This will be all about learning the system and and getting the skill set down on paper.

I'm hearing mostly good things about both the Elite Tactical and the Super Sniper. Further research is necessary. OHHHH, darn! ;)

hunttheevil
February 21, 2013, 01:07 PM
Let us know which one you go with. What rifle and caliber are you putting the scope on?

Manny
February 21, 2013, 05:23 PM
Both are quality scopes, but the SS has an adjustable objective and the Bushnell doesn't, which is a definite plus IMO. The SS also has a 30mm tube vs a 1" for the Bushnell which should give a little more adjustment range as well as being sturdier. The Bushnell has an edge in price, frequently on sale @ MidwayUSA for $200, plus it has Bushnells excellent rain guard lens coating. I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.

The_Armed_Therapist
February 21, 2013, 06:35 PM
Let us know which one you go with. What rifle and caliber are you putting the scope on?

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't know yet. I don't know yet because I don't have the money yet. :o ... My timelines for gun purchases are quite a bit slower than most. I'm wrapping up grad school, but have a wife and 4 kids on top of that. Patience is a must!

As far as what I'm thinking for what I want... Either .243, .25-06, 6.5x55, .270, or 7mm-08 as far as cartridge. With the rifle, I'm even more open at the moment. I'm not an especially picky gun owner, especially with typical bolt rifles that generally look and feel the same to me. Anything from a used Savage 11/111 to a Browning X-Bolt. I like them all fairly equally. I've heard great things about Tikka, so that's a definite possibility.

I'll probably forget about this thread by the time I actually get this together.

TurtlePhish
March 2, 2013, 11:26 PM
This might be a bit late, but I have the SWFA SS 10x and I love it. The glass is great, adjustments are incredibly repeatable, it looks good, etc. I recommend it.

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