Safety features on a Glock 26


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Airbrush Artist
February 21, 2013, 01:27 PM
Really Liking the Glock 26 from what I see But I prefer a Thumb safety because I will be around shoulder to shoulder on my Security job with a Lot of people I will be IWB on the Holster appreciate any Input....

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cja245
February 21, 2013, 01:43 PM
try out a Ruger SR9c. Its basically the same gun with a 1911 style thumb safety. I also think the grip is much more ergonomic and the trigger is a lot nicer. I have one as my carry gun and I have something like 8k rounds through it. Its been great.

Also that size gun does really well in the hybrid style IWB holster. I personally use a Kholster brand.

GunUp
February 21, 2013, 01:48 PM
In my opinion, Glock is the safest pistol on the market, which as I said is my opinion. I believe this statement because you know that there is no thumb safety that might be on safe or might have been bumped to fire. Your Glock is always on safe until the trigger is pulled. That being said there are quite a few other brands that are also very safe. There are no IWB holsters on Glock's web site but as long as you find a holster that covers the trigger you should be good to go! Check these out,

http://www.glockstore.com/holsters-by-style/iwb-holsters/kingtuk-iwb-holster

http://www.desantisholster.com/store/SEARCH-BY-GUN-MANUFACTURER/GLOCK/26-27-33/INSIDE-THE-WAIST-BAND-HOLSTERS

Good Luck! -MS

Certaindeaf
February 21, 2013, 01:52 PM
You need a big plastic box/holster for those to be "safe".

scaatylobo
February 21, 2013, 02:00 PM
I have worn a Glock IWB and especially the Glock sport holster for just over 15 years and NEVER had a reason to fear either.

The IWB's are Ritchie and OLDER Alessi holsters,including an OLDER Alessi ankle rig that I wore on duty during some 'stressful days' that saw it take a good deal of movement and never lose the gun.

I stressed OLDER Alessi stuff as he has passed on and the new stuff is ---- never mind,I wont go there.

Skip Ritchie was Lou Alessi's old partner and is in Lou's old shop on Niagara Falls Blvd in Tonawanda NY.

He has made a "few" [ like about 15 ] holsters so far ,for me and a few friends also and he is almost as good as Lou was ,and that is saying a lot !.

Teachu2
February 21, 2013, 02:15 PM
Try a S&W M&P9c. It can be had with all the safty devices you could want.

It's not a G26, but nothing else is. I have a G26 in my carry rotation, and the wife has a M&P 9c.

In a Crossbreed Supertuck or similar, the Glock is fine. Keeping your finger out of the trigger guard when holstering (or anything except firing) is mandatory on all pistols.

I shoot the G26 far faster and more accurately than any other subcompact I've ever tried. That's why I carry it. Knowing that it will go bang if the trigger is pulled keeps me more aware of safety, and I am comfortable carrying it everywhere.

AnthonySmithXR
February 21, 2013, 02:25 PM
Ill second the ruger sr9c. I prefer the ergonomics and trigger of the ruger. Most important for me, though, was the thumb safety. Please don't flame, but a trigger safety, like a grip safety, is not much of a safety. Yes, the gun is safe from AD if you drop it, but if my 4yo should pick it up because of my or someone else's negligence (it can happen. No one's perfect) the thumb safety is just one more measure of assurance. Moreover, as an edc gun, I prefer a manual safety. I've heard a few stories of glocks and similar weapons firing when holstered incorrectly (either finger on the trigger or the holster catching the trigger). Are all of these accidental or negligent discharges preventable with proper safety and responsible handling? Absolutely. But, again, no one's perfect. The glock is a great gun (I don't like the ergonomics, but that's personal. It's still a fantastic gun). I just feel more comfortable with an additional manual safety. Add on that I prefer the feel and trigger on the sr9c, and its a match made in heaven.


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leadchucker
February 21, 2013, 02:33 PM
I assume since you're looking at a 26, you want a compact or subcompact. Don't feel ashamed or intimidated into carrying something you're not comfortable with. If you want a safety, there's nothing wrong with that. Look at a S&W M&P 9c or M&P 9 Shield.

MasterSergeantA
February 21, 2013, 02:51 PM
The Ruger or S&W would be logical choices given your concerns. I have carried a 1911A1 in some form for over 45 years and prefer it. But having said that, I also own several Glocks that I would not hesitate to carry. So long as YOU are careful and have a holster that does not lend itself to someone else taking the pistol, there shouldn't be any reason to really worry.

But as Harry Callahan once said, "A man's got to know his limitations." Do what you feel comfortable doing.

Teachu2
February 21, 2013, 04:13 PM
Really Liking the Glock 26 from what I see But I prefer a Thumb safety because I will be around shoulder to shoulder on my Security job with a Lot of people I will be IWB on the Holster appreciate any Input....

Any chance you can try out a few before you buy? It's hard to tell by looking, but there is a lot of difference when you shoot them.

GCBurner
February 21, 2013, 04:26 PM
I used to worry about the lack of a manual safety on my G26, too, but I eventually realized that it's as safe as a double action revolver to carry - it won't go off until the trigger is pulled. Two things Glocks absolutely require, though, are the trigger discipline NOT to put a finger on the trigger until ready to shoot, and a good holster that covers the trigger so it doesn't get snagged by anything.

Hapworth
February 21, 2013, 04:45 PM
I like Glocks...a lot. But not for IWB. Won't open that can of worms, just stating it -- everyone's got their own thresholds (hopefully) and that's one of mine.

If definitely staying with the G26, first I'd consider a concealed outside the waistband holster made of kydex.

Second, if you insist on this style of carry, I'd consider an inside the waist band holster definitely made of kydex.

I'd look at Dale Fricke and Raven Concealment holsters.

Next, I'd look at the M&P9c and Shields with manual thumb safeties.

Good luck.

Fishbed77
February 21, 2013, 05:03 PM
A Walther P99ASc is another option that is the same size as a Glock 26. It does not have a manual safety, but is a DA/SA pistol with a decocker, which is a safer carry option due to the longer first trigger pull when decocked (making it just as safe as a double-action revolver).

Plan2Live
February 21, 2013, 06:47 PM
In my opinion, Glock is the safest pistol on the marketI'm not aware of any features that make one semi-automatic pistol without a manual safety any safer than another similar design made by a different company. Trigger pull and/or travel would be about the only feature that would make one brand without a manual safety any safer than another. From all the specs I've read and from personal experience, the 26 has a similar trigger pull to an M&P, Ruger SR series or XD which means they are all equally safe or equally not safe. It all comes down to the operator.

Now, if you want to compare a longer, stiffer DA/SA hammer fired platform to Striker fired, then we have differences to compare.

WinThePennant
February 21, 2013, 10:17 PM
A Glock with no external safeties is the SAFEST of all guns. You are supposed to treat all guns like they are HOT, but with Glocks it just comes easier because you know there are no safeties. Therein lies the secret. Knowing that your Glock is without a safety makes you more careful.

tarosean
February 21, 2013, 10:28 PM
You would have to go aftermarket if you want a external safety on a glock..

Paul7
February 21, 2013, 10:49 PM
I used to worry about the lack of a manual safety on my G26, too, but I eventually realized that it's as safe as a double action revolver to carry - it won't go off until the trigger is pulled. Two things Glocks absolutely require, though, are the trigger discipline NOT to put a finger on the trigger until ready to shoot, and a good holster that covers the trigger so it doesn't get snagged by anything.
A double action revolver has a harder pull than Glock, and would be safer for that reason. Aside from dropping/AD safety, what safety does a Glock have? The late Jeff Cooper said that thingy on the trigger is a gimmick, and he couldn't imagine a circumstance where it would be effective.

Flame away, but if you're not smart enough to use a safety, what are you doing carrying a gun?

Dlowe167
February 21, 2013, 10:55 PM
I got a Taurus PT745 Milenium Pro. Compact,thumb safety,.45 caliber. Great shooter too!

Teachu2
February 22, 2013, 12:38 AM
Flame away, but if you're not smart enough to use a safety, what are you doing carrying a gun?

If you're not smart enough to safely holster a gun without a safety, what are you doing carrying a gun?

I've known several LEOs who suffered NDs while holstering 1911s and 92fs Berettas. I also know of incidents where trained and experienced LEOs failed to fire when they intended because, under stress, they either failed to disengage the safety or dropped a full mag. Others have had issues realizing they had shot the mag empty.

I carried 1911s for three decades, and yet have not had any difficulties transitioning to Glocks. My carry rotation includes a G30, a G26, and a G36. I practice with them, often. All are stock internally.

The M&Ps, XDs, XDMs, and Sigs are all available with manual safeties. I own some of them. It just happens that the Glocks work better for me. I completely understand the reluctance of others to carry a gun without a manual safety, and readily admit that it took me a fair amount of range time and practice before I was comfortable carrying a Glock.

It helps, no doubt, that I was raised around cops and handguns. I was taught long ago never to trust safeties, bumper jacks, and auto finance managers (among others). To me, a gun is only safe when I have personally verified it's condition and secured it safely. That can be anywhere from locked open and empty to ready to fire in my hand.

Safeties don't make a gun safe. If they did, Glock would be the only gun having ADs, and police departments would quickly abandon them. Such is not the case.

I understand WinThePennant's post completely, because that's how my mind works, too. You'll never hear me blame an AD on my safety, even when I'm using a gun with a manual safety - but I've heard such from both people at the range and LEOs in the field. If the OP cannot get his mind around using a gun without a manual safety, then he shouldn't use one. I know people who won't even carry with the chamber loaded, for that matter.

You have to be comfortable with your carry gun - no matter what that takes. If you mind is always thinking about the accidents you might have - you WILL have one. Whatever you carry, shoot it enough in as many conditions as you can until it becomes natural. Shoot it until you don't have to think about it --- then think about it anyway!

Bobson
February 22, 2013, 02:37 AM
Aside from dropping/AD safety, what safety does a Glock have?
What other safety do you need? If you don't pull the trigger, it won't go off. What's the problem?

Also, can someone explain the alleged issue with carrying Glocks IWB w/o a "kydex box" holster? Two people in here mentioned that, but neither explained it, and this is the first (and second time) I've ever heard that stated.

Also...
The late Jeff Cooper said that thingy on the trigger is a gimmick, and he couldn't imagine a circumstance where it would be effective.
Well if that was the opinion of a well-known and respected human being, it must be inerrantly true.

Takem406
February 22, 2013, 02:46 AM
This is a Glock safety with the safety engaged.180181


Here's with the safety off... 180182

Also note additional holster safety... 180183

Nuff said!


In God and Glock we Trust

Ehtereon11B
February 22, 2013, 05:28 AM
Putting "Glock" and "accidental discharge" in Google gets you quiet a few pages of results. Saying Glock or any firearm doesn't have negligent/accidental discharges is just asking for trouble. The first step to firearm safety is YOU be comfortable with your weapon choice. If you don't feel comfortable or safe carrying a Glock, don't carry a Glock. Step 2 to that is don't let the Glock fanboys tell you different.

I have carried Glocks, all for professional or LEO work. I have had more malfunctions with Glock than any personally owned weapon I have. If I added a Glock to my collection, it would cost about $600-$800 (depending on Generation) to get it to where I would carry it, that is far from "Perfection" that Glock brags. To me, Glock is not a suitable carry weapon until money has been spent to fix it based on my preferences, but some people like how it works. Every "safety" on a Glock is on almost every other modern pistol.

Ruger SR9c is a great choice. I have one. It has all the safety features Glock has and then some. Cheaper than most Glocks as well.

Modern Walther (P99, PPQ, PPX). No thumb safety but the DA trigger pull is longer than heavier than a Glock, then goes to single action with lighter pulls and shorter travel.

HK USP. Certain variations have a safety and decocker making it very customizable for DA/SA or cocked and locked shooting. If you have the money that is the best option. Just good luck finding one that isn't an LEM trigger.

AnthonySmithXR
February 22, 2013, 07:37 AM
The holster issue I'm referring to is one incident in particular where a man used a leather iwb holster. The leather was a bit too warn and , during re holster, snagged the trigger resulting in a discharge.


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dfsixstring
February 22, 2013, 07:46 AM
I started carrying the SR9c when I first got my CC. I was nervous putting that thing into my IWB holster and keeping it there all day with the safety off. After a year and a half I'm much more comfortable. I flip the safety on when I holster/unholster it but carry it with the safety off. My LCP doesn't have a safety and it doesn't bother me at all, but does have a longer trigger pull.


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Prince Yamato
February 22, 2013, 08:51 AM
You'll be fine. Get a holster that covers the trigger. You will be 100% safe.

Paul7
February 22, 2013, 09:12 AM
If you're not smart enough to safely holster a gun without a safety, what are you doing carrying a gun?

I've known several LEOs who suffered NDs while holstering 1911s and 92fs Berettas. I also know of incidents where trained and experienced LEOs failed to fire when they intended because, under stress, they either failed to disengage the safety or dropped a full mag. Others have had issues realizing they had shot the mag empty.

I carried 1911s for three decades, and yet have not had any difficulties transitioning to Glocks. My carry rotation includes a G30, a G26, and a G36. I practice with them, often. All are stock internally.

The M&Ps, XDs, XDMs, and Sigs are all available with manual safeties. I own some of them. It just happens that the Glocks work better for me. I completely understand the reluctance of others to carry a gun without a manual safety, and readily admit that it took me a fair amount of range time and practice before I was comfortable carrying a Glock.

It helps, no doubt, that I was raised around cops and handguns. I was taught long ago never to trust safeties, bumper jacks, and auto finance managers (among others). To me, a gun is only safe when I have personally verified it's condition and secured it safely. That can be anywhere from locked open and empty to ready to fire in my hand.

Safeties don't make a gun safe. If they did, Glock would be the only gun having ADs, and police departments would quickly abandon them. Such is not the case.

I understand WinThePennant's post completely, because that's how my mind works, too. You'll never hear me blame an AD on my safety, even when I'm using a gun with a manual safety - but I've heard such from both people at the range and LEOs in the field. If the OP cannot get his mind around using a gun without a manual safety, then he shouldn't use one. I know people who won't even carry with the chamber loaded, for that matter.

You have to be comfortable with your carry gun - no matter what that takes. If you mind is always thinking about the accidents you might have - you WILL have one. Whatever you carry, shoot it enough in as many conditions as you can until it becomes natural. Shoot it until you don't have to think about it --- then think about it anyway!
Because you know of ADs with guns with safeties doesn't mean safeties don't make an AD less likely. People die in car crashes who wear seatbelts, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't wear them. That is a comparable analogy to what the Glock crowd are saying about guns, if everyone would drive like they should there would be no accidents. But there are, especially under stress.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/729088/posts

Paul7
February 22, 2013, 09:14 AM
What other safety do you need? If you don't pull the trigger, it won't go off. What's the problem?

Also, can someone explain the alleged issue with carrying Glocks IWB w/o a "kydex box" holster? Two people in here mentioned that, but neither explained it, and this is the first (and second time) I've ever heard that stated.

Also...

Well if that was the opinion of a well-known and respected human being, it must be inerrantly true.
Even Jeff Cooper once had an ND, but for some here, that could never happen to them. :scrutiny:

Sgt_R
February 22, 2013, 09:51 AM
I carry a Glock 26 every day.

If I wanted something with a manual safety, the M&P9c would be my first choice.

R

coolluke01
February 22, 2013, 02:25 PM
The best safety on any gun is the one between your ears!

It sounds like it boils down to personal comfort. Carry it without a round in the chamber for a little bit and build your confidence. Don't try and compensate for a fear with extra features. Build your confidence slowly and build your understanding. Learn about the safeties and what they do and how they work.

If you have any questions about how Glock's in particular work let me know.

Certaindeaf
February 22, 2013, 03:27 PM
A Fitz Special is the way to go.

Hapworth
February 22, 2013, 09:12 PM
A Fitz Special is the way to go.
Definitely -- shoved in a pocket. ;)

Mr. Trashcan
February 22, 2013, 11:41 PM
Deleted by poster.

GLOOB
February 23, 2013, 02:14 AM
Because you know of ADs with guns with safeties doesn't mean safeties don't make an AD less likely. People die in car crashes who wear seatbelts, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't wear them. That is a comparable analogy to what the Glock crowd are saying about guns, if everyone would drive like they should there would be no accidents. But there are, especially under stress.
There was a poll on the forum aways back, asking what kind of ND's people had experienced. It had on the order of a hundred responses. The results of that poll showed a manual safety would have prevented something like 4 percent of those ND's. (And of the detailed reponses, over 95% of the guns involved had a manual safety, which still wouldn't have made a difference, cuz the user intentionally had it off). Well, sure, I could be making that up. Maybe you can dig it up and see for yourself.

Mr. Trashcan
February 23, 2013, 09:54 AM
There was a poll on the forum aways back, asking what kind of ND's people had experienced. It had on the order of a hundred responses. The results of that poll showed a manual safety would have prevented something like 4 percent of those ND's. (And of the detailed reponses, over 95% of the guns involved had a manual safety, which still wouldn't have made a difference, cuz the user intentionally had it off). Well, sure, I could be making that up. Maybe you can dig it up and see for yourself.

Be curious to know how many NDs involved DAO guns. My guess would be zero.

Sgt_R
February 23, 2013, 10:12 AM
Be curious to know how many NDs involved DAO guns. My guess would be zero.

Plenty of ND's are of the "But it wasn't loaded," or "I forgot to clear it first" variety. My guess is that you would be incorrect.

R

AnthonySmithXR
February 23, 2013, 01:22 PM
Plenty of ND's are of the "But it wasn't loaded," or "I forgot to clear it first" variety. My guess is that you would be incorrect.

R

Well, unfortunately we all get careless and mechanical safeties can't fix stupid.


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Sgt_R
February 23, 2013, 03:58 PM
...mechanical safeties can't fix stupid.


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Exactly correct, and neither can DAO actions or any other mechanical feature. The "safety" of any firearm is ultimately determined by the user.

R

KAS1981
February 23, 2013, 04:37 PM
Some folks have an irrational fear of guns with no manual thumb safety.

If you want the G26, get the G26 and don't worry about the safety.

Certaindeaf
February 23, 2013, 04:42 PM
Some folks have an irrational fear of guns with no manual thumb safety..
And the converse is certainly true. Nothing like a 2-3 lb SA all day drop.

Averageman
February 24, 2013, 02:22 AM
The holster issue I'm referring to is one incident in particular where a man used a leather iwb holster. The leather was a bit too warn and , during re holster, snagged the trigger resulting in a discharge.

If this happened, I have never seen anything like it and it's the failure of the holster and the man carrying it, certainly not the gun.
I carry my 26 daily in a Don Hume IWB holster with a G17 mag, never an issue.

AnthonySmithXR
February 24, 2013, 07:27 AM
First, who said anything about a failure of the gun? Nearly all ad/nd can be prevented by heightened vigilance. My point is that manual safeties can help for some of those moments when we go stupid. It happens to all of us. But most of us get lucky and the gun doesn't go off. But we all slack in our handling from time to time. The truth is, some nd's, like this holster scenario, are the perfect storm of bad luck. 1,000 people could have the same holster and gun with out a problem. But, one guy did. It happens. And it can happen to any of us.

Second, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else are the ultimate source of information. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it didn't or can't happen.




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Averageman
February 24, 2013, 10:45 AM
First, who said anything about a failure of the gun? Nearly all ad/nd can be prevented by heightened vigilance. My point is that manual safeties can help for some of those moments when we go stupid.
I'm just going to submit to you that I have seen many degligent discharges and in my experiance no amount of safeties i.e. the over safetied 1911A1 ever stopped someone from a negligent discharge. In the overwhelming majority of the cases I have seen it have comes down to the operator not the machine failing. Any number of excuses might be used and I have heard them all, but its the headspace between the ears that kills people.

It happens to all of us. But most of us get lucky and the gun doesn't go off. But we all slack in our handling from time to time. The truth is, some nd's, like this holster scenario, are the perfect storm of bad luck. 1,000 people could have the same holster and gun with out a problem. But, one guy did. It happens. And it can happen to any of us.
I've never had a negligent discharge, it isn't about luck and we don't all slack off in our safety when carrying occasionally, nor is their a perfect storm to blame.
It comes down to personal responcability. People don't like to hear that, but it is the honest truth.
Glocks are very safe handguns in the hands of a responcable user. The G26 is reliable and handy, and in my opinion a great C.C. pistol

Second, neither you, nor I, nor anyone else are the ultimate source of information. Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it didn't or can't happen.
I can only give you a perspective from my experiance, that is true, but I do have a bit of experiance. I can assure you that, I have never seen a negligent discharge that wasn't directly caused by someones negligence and never a weapon failure that could not be directly traced to the Operator in either operating or maintenance procedures.
In nearly every case I have seen the person causing the negligent discharge immeadiatly blames the weapon or equipment, in this case a holster. In the attatched photos you'll see the entrance and the exit of a .50 caliber AP that traveled about a foot over my head. The immeadiate responce was, "It just went off." The hard truth was it was loaded on the FOB against regulation and the Crewman was poorly trained and negligent.
If I might seem a bit opinionated about this it comes from seeing these things personally time and time again, seeing people shot because of negligence and nearly being shot on more than one occasion myself and in all cases by operator negligence.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/094_zpscf1b40b4.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r263/Averageman1/095_zps4bfe8fe8.jpg
The G26 is a great pistol, be responcable with it and it will serve you well.

Mr. Trashcan
February 24, 2013, 01:03 PM
What you fail to understand is that human fallability cannot be overcome by vigilance, diligance, discipline, training, or education. Just the idea that ADs occur in LEO and military are proof of that. Yes, it can be reduced, but not eliminated. To claim that all you need to do is be careful and you will be 100% safe is irresponsible.

Here is an excerpt from the CZ catalog:

The vast majority of us donít have the experience of shooting the tens of thousands of rounds necessary to train ourselves to subconsciously flip down the safety lever before taking the first shot, nor do we all have the opportunity to fit the weekly range sessions required to keep current with skills we have developed in the past into our schedules today. For plinking or casual target shooting this isnít a big deal, but when under the stress of a defensive situation, remembering to take the safety off is critical. The models equipped with a decocking lever are, in most cases, the best choice for most shooters wanting a handgun for defensive purposes. With the decocker models, you must remember to decock the hammer after chambering a round and before holstering, but when placed in a defensive situation, there is no safety lever that you have to remember to disengage; the primary safety element of the decocked handgun is the longer, heavier pull of the double action trigger.

Funny how they understand that a long, heavier trigger pull is more appropriate for a defense gun and that in times of stress all bets are off. Maybe all you Glock owners should contact them and tell them they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

AnthonySmithXR
February 24, 2013, 01:37 PM
I agree with you totally. I really do. Personal responsibility is THE issue. I guess I'm just not as willing to trust myself or anyone else. I'm not perfect in this or any other regard. I guess that's all.


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TAKtical
February 24, 2013, 02:03 PM
Some folks have an irrational fear of guns with no manual thumb safety.

If you want the G26, get the G26 and don't worry about the safety.
This ^^^
Ive carried a glock 17 every day for years. Im actually carrying one right now. Ive carried in every type of rig possible. 90% of the time I carry IWB in one of my hybrid holsters. If you have been properly trained and follow the safety/gun handling rules, you will never have a problem. Honestly Ive never understood the need for an external safety. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Its really simple. If you are not confident that you can carry a gun without accidentally pulling the trigger, do us all a favor and dont carry one.

GLOOB
February 24, 2013, 02:32 PM
Funny how they understand that a long, heavier trigger pull is more appropriate for a defense gun and that in times of stress all bets are off. Maybe all you Glock owners should contact them and tell them they don't know what the hell they're talking about.
But a Glock has a long and heavy trigger pull. Glocks are only 25% cocked, so they're pretty darn close to DAO.

I have done the following experiment: Safety checked my G19 about 20 times. Securely taped the slide shut, so it couldn't accidentally "ninja-cycle." (Not that I can even do that, but safety, first; I'm about to break every gun safety rule, and I don't recommend anyone try this at home). Inserted a loaded magazine for weight. Now, without actually gripping the gun, I tried to pull the trigger.

With only my trigger finger through the guard, I jerked the gun up/down by the trigger as hard as I could. I spun it, twirled it, and just went crazy on it. I could not break the trigger. This meets my definition of a long and heavy trigger pull.

Airbrush Artist
February 24, 2013, 07:27 PM
Tatikal ,I have been carrying a Colt Detective Special 38 for a while [IWB] its like the Kodak Camera its a true Point and Shoot ,I like that in a C&C I do not need a bunch of procedures and swithces and tabs to push and pull when My behinds at risk in the mix,I wanna come out with the Stopper now! Thats the purpose of C&C when things get threatning ,The intial post was my concern, being it close quarters shoulder to shoulder with strangers, thats my concern for wanting to have a thumb safety...

Mr. Trashcan
February 24, 2013, 08:46 PM
But a Glock has a long and heavy trigger pull. Glocks are only 25% cocked, so they're pretty darn close to DAO.

I have done the following experiment: Safety checked my G19 about 20 times. Securely taped the slide shut, so it couldn't accidentally "ninja-cycle." (Not that I can even do that, but safety, first; I'm about to break every gun safety rule, and I don't recommend anyone try this at home). Inserted a loaded magazine for weight. Now, without actually gripping the gun, I tried to pull the trigger.

With only my trigger finger through the guard, I jerked the gun up/down by the trigger as hard as I could. I spun it, twirled it, and just went crazy on it. I could not break the trigger. This meets my definition of a long and heavy trigger pull.
No. It's more like 85% cocked, and while the trigger force is moderate, the pull is short, and that's the key. That's why people like it so much. If it even approached anything close to DAO it wouldn't be popular. Go try a Sig P250 and you'll see what DAO is. It's the smoothest 6lb trigger and yet most Glock owners won't touch it. That says it all.

Ehtereon11B
February 25, 2013, 07:28 AM
Go try a Sig P250 and you'll see what DAO is. It's the smoothest 6lb trigger and yet most Glock owners won't touch it. That says it all.

They won't touch it because its not a Glock :D

amd6547
February 25, 2013, 08:18 AM
I have been following this thread, since my EDC is a G26.
For me, I have zero problems with the Glock system. Since I use the same G26 for my HD pistol, it is always loaded...and treated that way. When it is in my hand, my finger is out of the trigger guard, laying along the frame, unless I am actually shooting.
I use a kydex clip on IWB holster that is light and thin, and protects the trigger. I use caution when holstering.
My G26 goes bang when I pull the trigger, and shoots like a full size pistol. It is, without a doubt, one of the best Glocks, and one of the best CCW pistols ever...for me.

AnthonySmithXR
February 25, 2013, 11:21 AM
As I think about it, maybe I should clarify why I prefer manual safeties. I always keep mine fully loaded with one in the pipe. I also have a 4year old and soon, a new born in the house. The 4 yo knows about guns and elements of gun safety. But, he's 4. So, because of that. I'm a lot more concerned about safeties than I might otherwise be. If I had no kids, I might go for a glock (except I dot like te feel). This doesn't mean you're a bad parent if you've got a glock. But that definitely influenced my decision.


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g_one
February 25, 2013, 11:55 AM
When I first got into firearms as a hobby/passion I was very wary of safety-less guns; even carrying a 1911 in condition 1 was a bad idea to me. Since then, I've learned quite a bit about not just firearm safety but also about the way firearms function.

I've found the for a Glock (my EDC/CCW is a Glock 26 for just over a year now, ever since it became legal in WI), Raven Concealment's original vanguard (http://www.ravenconcealment.com/other-holsters-vanguard-holster) is the best idea. Whenever it is not in my IWB holster, or pocket holster, it has this on it. Requires conscious effort to pull it off, and as long as it's on the Glock is basically rendered inert.

Teachu2
February 25, 2013, 12:44 PM
As I think about it, maybe I should clarify why I prefer manual safeties. I always keep mine fully loaded with one in the pipe. I also have a 4year old and soon, a new born in the house. The 4 yo knows about guns and elements of gun safety. But, he's 4. So, because of that. I'm a lot more concerned about safeties than I might otherwise be. If I had no kids, I might go for a glock (except I dot like te feel). This doesn't mean you're a bad parent if you've got a glock. But that definitely influenced my decision.


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I'd be a lot more concerned with properly securing the weapon.

CPLofMARINES
February 25, 2013, 05:30 PM
Like I have said to quite a few folks asking the same
Question..... Treat a Glock like a revolver.

Semper Fi

Certaindeaf
February 25, 2013, 05:32 PM
Like I have said to quite a few folks asking the same
Question..... Treat a Glock like a revolver.

Semper Fi
Spin it on your finger like a Cowboy? lolz

JoePfeiffer
February 25, 2013, 07:55 PM
I'd be a lot more concerned with properly securing the weapon.

Levels of security. When our kids were little, pointing a toy gun at a person was grounds for losing it for a while, the toy guns were kept in the safe with the real ones, they knew to report and not pick up a gun if they found one (which we tested with a trusted friend and unloaded gun), the guns were kept locked up except for the nightstand gun at night, and the chambers were kept empty.

AnthonySmithXR
February 25, 2013, 08:09 PM
Yup. Similar approach here, including testing them by 'leaving' the gun where it shouldn't be to see what he'll do. Question: why put the Toy guns in the safe too? Do they follow full gun safety rules with the toys? My concern is blurring the line between real guns and toys if, or example, he goes to a friends house and they play cops and robbers with the friends toy gun. My son doesn't have any toy guns at the moment.


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Airbrush Artist
February 25, 2013, 08:24 PM
Whether there is a external safety or Not, EVERY firearm should be considered loaded and ready to Rock and Roll .I have 5 Grandchildren from 3-18 years old, when they are on their way to Papaws House the Guns go away unloaded ,the only time one of them is loaded is when my .38 revolver rests beside my bed on my nightstand in case the Boogie Man attemps to come into my home and be mean and evil. Everyone has made some valid and Safe choices in discusscion,It simply comes down to Respect and the safe and common sense way to live with fire with Arms because of the Lifestyle we all have chosen...

JoePfeiffer
February 25, 2013, 08:24 PM
Question: why put the Toy guns in the safe too? Do they follow full gun safety rules with the toys?
In retrospect, we may have gone a little overboard there. The toy guns were always treated as training tools -- when they were good with the non-functioning-at-all toys and got big enough, they could move up to rubber darts. Then when they were big enough bb pistols. Then when they were big enough a real gun.

AnthonySmithXR
February 25, 2013, 08:29 PM
Ok, I realize this is an it rabbit trail but were already here. A few have mentioned leaving the gun loaded with one in the pipe on the nightstand with kids. How do you keep this safe from the kids? My 4yo comes in the bedroom all the time at all hours. What (other than training) keeps the kid from picking it up? I would love to do that but it scares the crap out of me, even with my 'over safe' sr9


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Weevil
February 25, 2013, 08:38 PM
So basically we all agree that no gun, not even a Glock, will fire unless you pull the trigger.

And I think we all agree that using a manual safety will prevent an AD if you pull a boner and pull the trigger when you're not supposed to.



So what prevents you from having an AD if you have a brainfart when the safety isn't on?

coolluke01
February 25, 2013, 08:39 PM
Don't ever leave a loaded gun where kids can get at it.

A gunvault is the best way to keep little hands off of it.

No matter how well trained or how much common sense they have, they are not to be trusted or given the opportunity to do foolish things.

AnthonySmithXR
February 25, 2013, 09:02 PM
So basically we all agree that no gun, not even a Glock, will fire unless you pull the trigger.

And I think we all agree that using a manual safety will prevent an AD if you pull a boner and pull the trigger when you're not supposed to.



So what prevents you from having an AD if you have a brainfart when the safety isn't on?

I would say nothing. And I would say that's negligent, not accidental.


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AnthonySmithXR
February 25, 2013, 09:04 PM
Don't ever leave a loaded gun where kids can get at it.

A gunvault is the best way to keep little hands off of it.

No matter how well trained or how much common sense they have, they are not to be trusted or given the opportunity to do foolish things.

Yeah. That's what I do. Just wondering about others who've posted.


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JoePfeiffer
February 26, 2013, 02:30 AM
So what prevents you from having an AD if you have a brainfart when the safety isn't on?
Nothing, of course. You minimize the chances a brainfart will get someone hurt, and work hard at not having a brainfart.

Teachu2
February 26, 2013, 01:20 PM
So basically we all agree that no gun, not even a Glock, will fire unless you pull the trigger. I agree.

And I think we all agree that using a manual safety will prevent an AD if you pull a boner and pull the trigger when you're not supposed to. Nope - it doesn't work if your thumb has been trained to sweep the safety before you squeeze the trigger. It's also not smarter than a 4 year old. If you are prone to such events, it's best to leave the chamber empty.


So what prevents you from having an AD if you have a brainfart when the safety isn't on? Training with a Glock - your brain becomes accustomed to the certainty of the trigger firing the gun, and you learn to keep your finger off the bang switch until you want to fire.

leadchucker
February 26, 2013, 03:11 PM
It's just all those Unintentional Discharges, that occur up until your brain becomes accustomed to the certainty of the trigger firing the gun, that are the problem.

Dan-O
February 26, 2013, 04:03 PM
For some reason after reading this thread, all I can think about is "Tex" shooting himself in the leg with a 1911.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3kJ6SU3ycs

ku4hx
February 26, 2013, 04:32 PM
This is a Glock safety with the safety engaged.180181


Here's with the safety off... 180182

Also note additional holster safety... 180183

Nuff said!


In God and Glock we Trust
What? Wait! You're actually going to claim the only real safety is the one between your ears? Hmmm, OK...works for me.

Mr. Trashcan
March 1, 2013, 07:04 PM
Exactly correct, and neither can DAO actions or any other mechanical feature. The "safety" of any firearm is ultimately determined by the user.
Then why are those guns made? Do people choose DAO for fun?

ku4hx
March 1, 2013, 09:00 PM
Then why are those guns made? Do people choose DAO for fun?
Product diversity. To paraphrase a movie line, "Built it and they will buy it". And because marketing research and events like the SHOT show get information back to the manufacturers that certain products will sell. I've got various models with various types of safeties, or no mechanical safety at all in certain cases, and I like them all.

Having cut my teeth on revolvers so to say, I do very well with a Glock's trigger and safety design. People who "grew up" with a 1911 might favor an external thumb operated safety. It all depends on what you like and what is available. I use to buy GM trucks; since the early '90s all I've owned have been Ford.

Weevil
March 2, 2013, 02:17 PM
I would say nothing. And I would say that's negligent, not accidental.


So what's the difference???


If someone is doofy enough to pull the trigger on a loaded gun when they're not supposed to, why shoud we assume that they're gonna be smart enough to have the safety on when they commit this act of stupidity?

I mean they've already commited one of the cardinal sins of safe gun handling, what says they're gonna do it with the safety on?

Oh sure you would hope that they'd have it on, and they may actually get lucky enough to have it on God willing, but a "manual" safety doesn't work automatically. The user has to engage it themselves.


Perhaps some of you have misunderstood my point, basically what I'm saying is a manual safety is no substitute for good old fashioned common sense.

Yeah it might save your butt in the event of a brainfart, then again it might not.

There is nothing in this world that's completely foolproof, especially when it comes to guns even if they do have a manual safety.

hentown
March 3, 2013, 10:11 AM
I probably don't know as much about Glocks as the average security guard, but I have fired a few hundred thousand rounds through mine. ;) I carry a G26, IWB, daily. Bought one for my daughter and one of my sons. If I thought my family and I would be better served with something else for concealed carry, I'd buy it.

pa350z
March 3, 2013, 06:40 PM
My daily carry is a G27 using a Blackhawk IWB holster with one spare mag pouch made by Blackhawk (leather). It is very comfortable and safe. However and a big however, I do check the leather IWB holster regularly for wear. The worn leather issue is not only a Glock issue but for other pistols with out a thumb safety or decocker.

groundhog34
March 3, 2013, 07:24 PM
The safety is located between your ears.

groundhog34
March 3, 2013, 07:29 PM
" I realize this is an it rabbit trail but were already here. A few have mentioned leaving the gun loaded with one in the pipe on the nightstand with kids. How do you keep this safe from the kids? My 4yo comes in the bedroom all the time at all hours. What (other than training) keeps the kid from picking it up? I would love to do that but it scares the crap out of me, even with my 'over safe' sr9 "

I was about 5 or 6 and interested in my dad's 38. This was in the 50's, I am an old guy. He took my outside and let me shoot it. It scared the sh1t out of me. I remembered he said if I catch you playing with this gun I am going to shoot your dog to show you what it does. He was a WWII vet. I NEVER looked at it again. Today unfortunately he would probably go to jail.

AnthonySmithXR
December 18, 2013, 08:09 AM
Yeah it might save your butt in the event of a brainfart, then again it might not.



There is nothing in this world that's completely foolproof, especially when it comes to guns even if they do have a manual safety.


This, to me, is the point. It might save you. It might not. But I like slim odds better than no odds (a gun without a manual safety can't 'save you' from stupid at all). The odds of human error are 100%. May not happen with a gun, or a loaded gun. But it will happen. If error and the gun happen to come together, a manual safety may help. That's better than nothing in my book.

And I'm not talking about 'I didn't know the gun was loaded'. That's negligent. I'm talking about 'the leather being a bit tight on your holster' sort of thing.

HexHead
December 18, 2013, 08:18 AM
Flame away, but if you're not smart enough to use a safety, what are you doing carrying a gun?

And if you're not smart enough to use a gun that doesn't have an external safety, you shouldn't be carrying a gun either.

AnthonySmithXR
December 18, 2013, 08:25 AM
And if you're not smart enough to use a gun that doesn't have an external safety, you shouldn't be carrying a gun either.


I really don't think it's a matter of intelligence. It's simply the fact that some of us seem to have more faith in ourselves, and humanity, than others.

WinThePennant
December 18, 2013, 06:23 PM
Glock DOES have a safety. Glocks made today stand a pretty much ZERO chance of going off without someone placing their finger on the trigger and pulling it.

The only time I hear of people having a Glock discharge is when they are either (1) disassembling it, or (2) carrying it without a holster.

Human stupidity will defeat a safety 110% of the time.

Vodoun da Vinci
December 18, 2013, 08:31 PM
I have a Glock 26 and love it. Very accurate and perfect size for me and concelaed carry....I don't have my CCW yet but when I get it I will undoubtedly carry my G26 in addition and in rotation with my Beretta Px4 subcompact . I know it's blasphemy to hanker for a safety on a Glock but I have some jitters myself.

I have a Gun Buddy that has one of these on his G27 and swears by it...loves it and thinks it should be an option from the factory. It offends lots of folks but it is what it is....a safety for a Glock.

http://www.siderlock.com/

I have played with it and rather like it but have not installed one on my pistol. Yet. I may - I may not but I certainly can recommend it if you love your G26 but don't feel quite as safe carrying it as you'd like to feel. And if you put it on and end up not wanting it or feeling more comfy and replacement trigger is very cheap and virtually drop in.

VooDoo

tacxted
December 19, 2013, 12:00 AM
I have to say, I don't like the idea of the sliderlock vodoun da vinci. I feel it encourages needless "fingering" of the trigger. when the only time I should touch the trigger is to shoot the gun, definitely not to release a safety.

To add to the discussion. I too carry a g26 for CC. At first I was worried about MY draw and my finger placement during draw causing a ND. So I practiced drawing at home and at the range. While I was uncomfortable with my drawing phase I still carried the gun, but I carried with the chamber empty and the firing pin released.

meef
December 19, 2013, 12:26 AM
Posted this in the silly thread about what to call a safety.Cominolli.

While I realize it's not for everyone, I personally consider it a huge improvement to a Glock.

Operates the same as the safety on a 1911, and also allows the slide to be racked with the safety engaged.

cominolli.com/product_info.php?products_id=29 (cominolli.com/product_info.php?products_id=29)I really, really like mine.

Makes me appreciate my Glock 19 even more.

danez71
December 19, 2013, 12:32 AM
^ That's a really good product. I almost bought a G26 and put that on it.



I drug my feet because I still didn't like the trigger reach/trigger dingle of the G26

Lucky for me the MP9c came out with a thumb safety.

I'm not saying the G26 is a lesser gun. I just have shorter fingers and the MP fit me better.

TheGoldenSaber
December 19, 2013, 01:40 AM
I didn't read all of the replies so someone might have already mentioned it, but another option is to carry it ... without a round in the chamber(gasp). I'm sure a lot of people will give me crap for saying it, but unless there is a manual safety I 100% will not carry it with a round in the chamber. They seem to be pretty safe, but I have heard of more then a few cases of "Glock leg." Look it up on google.

I'm going to be buying a Glock 19 pretty soon for concealed carry and I'll be carrying it without a round in the chamber. I'm pretty sure the Israelis do it and they seem fine. I have very good situational awareness and if I sense danger I'll rack the slide and have it ready. I would much rather have to do that then accidentally shoot myself. I would kick my own arse if I accidentally shot myself because I carried it with a round in the chamber in the off chance that I would have to pull it out and have it ready in under 3 seconds. If you only have 3 seconds to draw a gun and fire, you're probably a dead man anyways.

That's just my opinion, I'm sure most people will disagree. Good luck to you with whatever you choose.

Vodoun da Vinci
December 19, 2013, 07:29 AM
I have to say, I don't like the idea of the sliderlock vodoun da vinci. I feel it encourages needless "fingering" of the trigger. when the only time I should touch the trigger is to shoot the gun, definitely not to release a safety.

To add to the discussion. I too carry a g26 for CC. At first I was worried about MY draw and my finger placement during draw causing a ND. So I practiced drawing at home and at the range. While I was uncomfortable with my drawing phase I still carried the gun, but I carried with the chamber empty and the firing pin released.
Understood...but I don't "finger" the trigger to release the Siderlock. It is lateral pressure and your finger never comes close to that little doo hicky in the center of the trigger which is the Glock trigger safety, right? You can (I can) do it with my eyes closed just using my forefinger to apply lateral pressure to click the Siderlock button to the "fire" position.

Not for everyone especially if you are dead set against manual safeties on a Glock. I really had to handle a Glock with the Siderlock to get the full flavor of how effective and cool it is. That said, it's not for everyone and my greatest fear is *not* that I'll pull the trigger in a moment of stupid while carrying. My fear of carrying my Glock with one in the tube is that I will sit down/stand up, get struck/impacted or *something* very uncontrollable will happen and the trigger will get impacted/pulled while the pistol is in my pants.

It has already happened and not to "stupid" or undisciplined people - even experienced folks who are trained have had AD with Glocks and not because they pulled the trigger. Because of holster failure/equipment failure or circumstances beyond their control like a traffic accident or falling down stairs.

It's an option - not for everyone.

VooDoo

WinThePennant
December 19, 2013, 06:33 PM
Simple. If you want a pistol with a safety, then don't buy a Glock. That's the main reason why I love my Glocks -- NO SAFETIES.

hentown
December 19, 2013, 07:00 PM
I carry a G26 daily; bought one for my daughter and one of my sons. I'd consider a thumb safety to be a dangerous addition to a Glock.

Regardless of your "special ops" duty, shoulder-to-shoulder or otherwise, there's no cogent reason for adding a thumb safety, just like there's no cogent reason, in my humble opinion, to use a NY trigger spring in a Glock, unless one is unfortunate enough to acutally be a New Yorker. :cool:

gym
December 19, 2013, 10:00 PM
You don't want anything to distract you if you need to pull and fire your weapon. As mentioned many times, the gun will only fire if you pull the trigger. Remove and put on gun while in holster and you will never have to worry about it again.

Sleasys14
December 20, 2013, 12:45 AM
I was reluctant to carry my g26 loaded when I first received it. So I didn't until I got used to it. Now when ever I go for it , tunnel vision kicks in and 95% of my attention is where my finger is when I'm holding it. My girlfriend even says I turn into a completely different person when I unholster it. After years of carrying it I have come to hate manual safeties. Even missed my chance at a decent buck one year because I forgot to turn it off. I carry mine in an alien holster and love it. Best 40$ I've spent.

HisStigness
December 20, 2013, 03:45 AM
Can somebody explain to me why glock are so safe? It's a gun with no safety, just a trigger with a little tang in the middle and people claim that it's a super safe gun. I absolutely 100% believe that the first and most important safety is between your ears, but it wasn't that long ago that I heard about a cop in my area shooting a round right past his leg when re-holstering because a twig got in his holster while he was walking in the woods. My FNS has a trigger safety, firing pin safety, drop safety, and out if battery safety, plus a manual safety that makes absolutely sure that contact with the trigger won't allow the gun to shoot. And if I don't want to use the safety I just leave the little red dot showing at all times.

5-SHOTS
December 20, 2013, 05:48 AM
If you like a Glock with a safety you can get the Cominolli manual safety, sort of 1911 style safety.
Or, even simpler and cheaper, install a New York trigger 1 or 2.

gym
December 20, 2013, 06:35 PM
Guns are inherently dangerous and not for everyone. If you make a decision to make carrying one part of your life, you had better get your head in the state that when you are operating the weapon, everything else must come to a complete halt.
This includes your conversation with your peers and the show you had on TV. You need your entire focus to be on the gun, for the 10 seconds in the morning and evening when you are vulnerable to making an error because you were distracted.
A complete examination of your equipment and a wipe down of the gun should follow your removal and storage, "even if it's going to sit on the night stand. There should be the exact same place where you place it every night, in a holster with a tac light. Once you get into a ritual of doing this, you won't have to worry about making a stupid mistake that you can never take back.
Mine go in holsters where there is no exposed trigger, on a non slip surface with the night sights facing the pillow. I can see it should I open my eyes and need to reach it without unholstering it.
In the beginning of this carrying thing, it all seems a bit tentative, I can assure you that making a proper routine for yourself will pay you back a hundred fold in the decades to come. You need to know where your gun is without turning on lights and making noise. That is another good reason why a safety can be trouble to a new shooter. In the heat of the moment, with no light on, you can easily get confused as to weather you flipped it on or off. Especially in the beginning.

g_one
December 20, 2013, 08:52 PM
It took me a long time to realize that a long, intentional trigger pull (I would call it double action pull but glocks are not DA) IS a safety in it's own right, with proper training. Once I learned that I never looked back. My only gun with a thumb safety is a 1911 and I aim to keep it that way. (But I do love my 1911)

winster
December 26, 2013, 09:49 PM
Got glock 26 gen4 for Christmas. Took it apart cleaned it really well. Mult misfires first mag. Stopped took apart and cleaned again. 50 rds later still no misfires. Any ideas?

WinThePennant
December 27, 2013, 06:36 PM
Got glock 26 gen4 for Christmas. Took it apart cleaned it really well. Mult misfires first mag. Stopped took apart and cleaned again. 50 rds later still no misfires. Any ideas?
Based on your message, it sounds like the problem went away after the second cleaning?

gym
December 28, 2013, 10:50 AM
Check the magazine you used first. If it wasn't the same mage as the second time, then that was probably the problem, "although I never hear of a new glock mag being bad. Either that or you had a foreign object or dirt in the gun and you cleaned it out.
also was it the same ammo as you used the first time?

WinThePennant
December 28, 2013, 12:47 PM
I actually had a new Glock 29 mag that was 'bad.'

Actually, it wasn't 'bad.' It was not assembled properly. I had to take it apart and set the spring properly.

Teachu2
December 29, 2013, 12:41 AM
Got glock 26 gen4 for Christmas. Took it apart cleaned it really well. Mult misfires first mag. Stopped took apart and cleaned again. 50 rds later still no misfires. Any ideas?
Possibly put it together wrong the first time?

B!ngo
December 29, 2013, 01:34 AM
It's funny how successful a marketing plan can be.
I've been an H&K home boy for many years with 3 P7's and 2 USP's. But I'm about to switch out the USP's for Glocks because the striker-fired design is just way better than DA/SA. For me at least.
That said, there is no way that I believe that that little dingle inside the trigger is as effective a safety as the manual safety on my USP's. And the subtle messaging that Glock portrays as it being safer and that 'your finger is the safety' is just their marketing department at work.
It looks like they've been successful.
Again, I think they make a great gun and so much so that I'm going to switch. But it's not greater in every way.
B

sgt127
December 29, 2013, 02:51 AM
I carry a Glock in a duty holster all day, every day. No issues. Off duty, I carry appendix. I carry a Sig P239 DAK. No safety, no decocker.

I will not carry a Glock appendix. Many do, good for them. The idea of a cocked pistol pointed at my femoral artery makes me squeamish. I won't carry a 1911 or a S&W MP that way either.

danez71
December 29, 2013, 11:09 AM
It's funny how successful a marketing plan can be.
I've been an H&K home boy for many years with 3 P7's and 2 USP's. But I'm about to switch out the USP's for Glocks because the striker-fired design is just way better than DA/SA. For me at least.
That said, there is no way that I believe that that little dingle inside the trigger is as effective a safety as the manual safety on my USP's. And the subtle messaging that Glock portrays as it being safer and that 'your finger is the safety' is just their marketing department at work.
It looks like they've been successful.
Again, I think they make a great gun and so much so that I'm going to switch. But it's not greater in every way.
B

If you want a thumb safety.....

Get a M&P with the thumb safety.

Or, the pricier option would be to get http://cominolli.com/product_info.php?products_id=29 installed on a Glock.

WinThePennant
December 29, 2013, 11:11 AM
If you want a thumb safety, then by all means go with the M&P.

If the M&P was easier to 'self-smith,' then I'd own nothing but M&Ps. Because Glocks are so easy to work on, they are pretty much all I own.

340PD
December 29, 2013, 11:45 AM
Glock makes great guns carried by thousands of people. At our range, in the cleaning room, there are seven holes in the counter, ceiling, and floor where "unloaded"guns have gone off. All of them LEO's Glocks.
Are Glocks safe?, Yes.
Will they go off by themselves? No.
Are they more prone to ND with a careless handler? Possibly.
Do they get handled far more than other guns? Yep.
It is all up to how comfortable and careful you are with the Glock platform.

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