Think Tank Discussion: Know thy Enemy


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Sol
February 21, 2013, 10:49 PM
The purpose for the thread is to discuss alternate ways gun control can be pushed. What better way to deflect an attack than to know it's coming and avoid it? Now let's switch sides for a minute with our opposing friends. We all know what they want, but do we know how they are going to try to obtain it?

Here are my thoughts and theories:

Today I clicked a link on this forum that directed me to an NRA commercial with VP Joe Biden (on YouTube). This video had a staggering 301 views. Then I clicked on the most views videos for today and up pops a video about stoned drivers, the expirement was done by CNN and posted by someone else.

Not shockingly, at over 1.5 million views, most of the comments were of a positive note about how great weed is and how it should be legalized on a federal level...well this got the wheels churning in my head.

Believe it or not, but the comment sections on internet content is a great barometer for public opinion. Anyways I got to thinking that if some poitical genius pushed for full federal legalization, it could take the guns out of the hands of many, and have a residual effect for years to come for millions.

How, you may ask? Say it's fully legalized, the government would probably want records taken of who buys and uses (through retailers, think California).

Also with the upcoming Obamacare i'd imagine government, insurance and doctor to have a conglomurated information sharing center. This could easily be used for finding folks using said drugs, by a simple urine or blood test. Of course these test would only be used for diagnostic purposes in treating ones illness.

Knowing our government, thar would never let perfectly good information go wasted, would declare that people excercising their new found freedom should be under a permanent federal firearms disability.

"But if it's legalized why couldn't you own a gun and indulge?"

Simple, it would take billions of tax dollars and thousands of man hours to legally modify all existing laws. How many expungements, sealing of records, pardons, record modification and crminal background checks could be updated within a reasonable timeframe?

It took the federal government almost 16 weeks just to print out an extra copy of my SS card. One background check says I don't have a criminal record, another says I do (tresspassing ticket?)

I think it could be a wash, with the baby boomers dying like lemming off a cliff (sorry) and Generation X and millenials breeding a dumber future, I find this to be a possible reality.

This is just my opinion and would like to read others theories on alternate gun control. I'm aware there is flawed logic in it, but in our current state of affairs, we make policy by it.
Disclaimer I haven't read the 6000 page Obamacare.

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Teachu2
February 21, 2013, 10:57 PM
Disclaimer I haven't read the 6000 page Obamacare.

Nobody has....

Grassman
February 21, 2013, 11:21 PM
Nobody has....
90% of the people that voted on it didn't.

jerkface11
February 21, 2013, 11:23 PM
90% of the people that voted on it didn't.

You're being generous there I'd say more like 100%

JRH6856
February 22, 2013, 02:20 AM
Funny. As printed by the USGovt. Printing office, it is only 907 pages. That may be why no one has read 6000. :scrutiny:

jerkface11
February 22, 2013, 02:24 AM
Only 907. I think it says something when ANY law is longer than the constitution.

Alaska444
February 22, 2013, 03:29 AM
I think it could be a wash, with the baby boomers dying like lemming off a cliff (sorry) and Generation X and millenials breeding a dumber future, I find this to be a possible reality.

Wait, the Baby Boomers still got a bunch of time left don't we, most of us are still in our 50's!!! Don't kill us off yet, we are still kicking young man.

Cryogaijin
February 22, 2013, 09:43 AM
The average bill before congress is over 1000, IIRC. It is one of the things that is wrong with congress.

Anyhow, I think it is important to remind OUR REPRESENTATIVES, be they house or senate or mayor/governor/police chief that "compromise" requires movement by both sides.

If they're decrying how GRAs are unwilling to "compromise" perhaps it is because they aren't offering anything. Want to add silly new laws? Undo some of the silly ones in the past, like, oh, delisting silencers (and the corresponding threaded barrels if you live somewhere they're restricted.) They don't do what Hollywood claims, and less noise pollution is a net positive. . .

beatledog7
February 22, 2013, 10:22 AM
Amazingly, the entire Constitution, including the signatories and all 27 Amendments, can be printed in an easily legible font on a mere 17 standard 8-1/2 x 11" pages.

SoCalNoMore
February 22, 2013, 11:02 AM
Nobody has....
I hate to admit it, but I have. Its not as lengthy as it seems. Bills are printed with triple margins and double spacing in 12pt font.

JRH6856
February 22, 2013, 01:51 PM
Back to OP's initial purpose, here are some thoughts off the top of my head:

SCOTUS has recognized the right to keep and bear arms as a fundamental right. Laws affecting fundamental rights require strict scrutiny and must be carefully tailored to accomplish a clearly identified necessary purpose and avoid infringing the right beyond what is specifically necessary to accomplish only that defined purpose. This means that most measures currently in play will probably not survive a challenge, but a challenge takes time and the damage done in the meantime may be irreparable.

1. The most probably stragegy for gun control advocates to pursue is to try to make it an administrative process rather than a judicial one. Pass laws defining conditions and setting standards that must be met to exercise 2A rights and authorize the Esecutive branch to administer the standards. This opens the door to control by executive order, and fits right in with what OP describes as a possible policy regarding drugs. A similar policy could be pursued regarding mental health. As long as mental health status in regard to 2A rights are a matter for the courts, each case is an individual matter and a decision affecting one person does not apply to another. An administrative decision can apply to a whole class, such as deciding that anyone who has ever been treated for depression is prohibited from access to firearms.

2. Laws at the federal level affect all states, and a defeat at the federal level does as well. The strategy of pursuing gun control measures in various states accomplished several things.

A law can be written differently in different states. One may fail a court challenge, but different wording may survive. The one that survives can then be pursued in other states or at the federal level.

By introducing laws in several states at once, it makes if more difficult for 2A supporters to counter them as it is more difficult to defend on multiple fronts, and requires multiple court challenges, each of which must be financed.

JustinJ
February 22, 2013, 02:34 PM
I'm very confused. Are you saying that the government might legalize weed so that they can then covertly have drug tests done on people through obamacare and then deny their gun rights for using weed? I seriously hope i misunderstood what you are trying to say.

Believe it or not, but the comment sections on internet content is a great barometer for public opinion.

Umm, no, not at all. The comments sections on internet content is nothing but a barometer for the opinion of a specific demographic who views that specific type of media. And even then it's not a reliable indicator of that demographic's general views either.

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