Curse the Ammo Shortage *pics*


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CmdrSlander
February 22, 2013, 04:05 AM
When I bought my varmint rifle I went for a .223 instead of a .22-250 because ".223 is what the AR15 uses, and that thing is so popular, .223 will always be cheap and plentiful" :banghead:

I can't afford to feed any of my long guns save the .22s and my handguns aren't cheap to supply in this climate of fear. I hope this dies down soon.

As a reward for reading my rant, enjoy pics of the aforementioned unfeedable varminter:

http://s17.postimage.org/ac8gzszin/DSC_0011_1.jpg
http://s3.postimage.org/hikh29tv7/DSC_0012_1.jpg
http://s16.postimage.org/p0bguay45/DSC_0014_1.jpg

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ColtPythonElite
February 22, 2013, 04:23 AM
Your post is the reason I preach on reloading and buying more components than one intends to use in the near future....My dedicated varmint rig is .22-250. I have never shot a single factory round. I have been using the same brass for nearly 15 years and been loading with components purchased nearly a decade ago.

CmdrSlander
February 22, 2013, 04:28 AM
Your post is the reason I preach on reloading and buying more components than one intends to use in the near future....My dedicated varmint rig is .22-250. I have never shot a single factory round. I have been using the same brass for nearly 15 years and been loading with components purchased nearly a decade ago.
Unfortunately, reloading is out of the question... I have a hard enough time keeping the guns and ammo on the property as it is, smokeless powder would not fly (I know it isn't very dangerous, but this isn't about what I know, it is about what my landlords assume), and the concept of "making my own ammunition" certainly wouldn't.
And yes I am working on moving.

ColtPythonElite
February 22, 2013, 04:34 AM
How do the landlords know what you do behind a closed door in the privacy of your own home?.

Worse case, you could use an original Lee Loader or hand press. , Your needed gear and components would fit in a shoe box.

CmdrSlander
February 22, 2013, 04:39 AM
How do the landlords know what you do behind a closed door in the privacy of your own home?.

Worse case, you could use an original Lee Loader or hand press. , Your needed gear and components would fit in a shoe box.
It is their property, and I feel compelled to respect their right to determine what potentially harmful devices are brought onto it.

ColtPythonElite
February 22, 2013, 04:46 AM
So, have these landlords spelled out in a lease prohibitions of these harmful devices?

Xfire68
February 22, 2013, 04:47 AM
The Lee hand Loader may just be what you need? The process and or materials used in reloading are not any more dangerous then using or keeping household cleaning products.

You can keep a small kit of what you need to reload in a small box. You can load enough to hunt or target shoot in a reasonable period of time and you won't run out of ammo anymore!:)

JVaughn
February 22, 2013, 05:10 AM
How do the landlords know what you do behind a closed door in the privacy of your own home

In TN, a landlord can enter and inspect the property with a 3 day notice anytime. If the lease says anything is prohibited, then it is if the tenant signed it. It's a difficult battle for the landlord to evict someone based on prohibited items, but if he proves they were there and then a fire or explosion occurs, the tenant could end up paying to rebuild the structure instead of the landlord's insurance company.

That being said, if a tenant gives no reason for a landlord to be suspicious, then the chances that the landlord would even ask for a search are slim.

TonyDedo
February 22, 2013, 05:39 AM
Don't expect ammo prices to change. Availability will increase as the 'scare' dies down, but right now price is dictated by commodity prices, not consumer demand. So long as China and India keep buying copper and brass like it's going out of style. $0.50-$1.00/round will continue to be a reality.

Gtscotty
February 22, 2013, 06:31 AM
Don't expect ammo prices to change. Availability will increase as the 'scare' dies down, but right now price is dictated by commodity prices, not consumer demand. So long as China and India keep buying copper and brass like it's going out of style. $0.50-$1.00/round will continue to be a reality.

Not so.... Right now ammo prices have definitely been jacked up by a spike in demand. Prior to the spike, commodity prices had driven ammo prices to their "pre-scare" price levels, which is where prices will fall back to when the scare fades and demand decreases. Brass and copper prices are not what drove .223 to $800/case, but they did drive .223 to $350/case, and that is probably where they will land again once all the fear driven demand leaves the market.

Davek1977
February 22, 2013, 06:59 AM
right now price is dictated by commodity prices, not consumer demand.

No, thats not presently the case at all. It might explain the gradual upward trend in ammo prices, but it doesn't account for already somewhat high prices doubling after Sandy Hook and the fallout from that shooting. Raw materials don't account for $100 bricks of 22 LR or buck a round 5.56. The CURRENT prices are fueled by unprecedented demand, not high material cost. I got an idea of just how much ammo was going off the shelves when SGammo had some 7.62x39 in stock. When I checked original, they had 250 1000 rd cases....thats a quarter million rounds of a single caliber from one distributer.....and it was gone in less than 18 hours. That is NOT normal demand, unless they were all but giving the ammo away.....which certainly wasn't the case.

Certaindeaf
February 22, 2013, 08:56 AM
Yea, a gun really loses its utility without ammo or the ability to make it.

Paul7
February 22, 2013, 09:21 AM
No, thats not presently the case at all. It might explain the gradual upward trend in ammo prices, but it doesn't account for already somewhat high prices doubling after Sandy Hook and the fallout from that shooting. Raw materials don't account for $100 bricks of 22 LR or buck a round 5.56. The CURRENT prices are fueled by unprecedented demand, not high material cost. I got an idea of just how much ammo was going off the shelves when SGammo had some 7.62x39 in stock. When I checked original, they had 250 1000 rd cases....thats a quarter million rounds of a single caliber from one distributer.....and it was gone in less than 18 hours. That is NOT normal demand, unless they were all but giving the ammo away.....which certainly wasn't the case.
This shortage will go away, just as the 2008 ammo panic did. The strange thing is, nobody is talking about banning ammo. Hi-cap mags and 'assault weapons', yes.

Xfire68
February 22, 2013, 09:27 AM
This shortage will go away, just as the 2008 ammo panic did. The strange thing is, nobody is talking about banning ammo. Hi-cap mags and 'assault weapons', yes.

Yes it will but it took close to a year for stock to return and I don't think the last one was as bad as this one has been. IMO

Sgt_R
February 22, 2013, 09:32 AM
This thread needs pics of the ammo shortage. ;)

Palmetto State Armory
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/22/nuteravy.jpg
Wal-Mart
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/22/bu7apuge.jpg

Xfire68
February 22, 2013, 09:47 AM
Cabelas last month.
Ammo
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Ledge68/537267_4724628647096_434869628_n_zps978a213b.jpg

Magazines
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Ledge68/184416_4724633007205_2090090925_n_zps1d582784.jpg

Handguns
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg74/Ledge68/19285_4724631927178_1139454092_n_zps398ce725.jpg

GBExpat
February 22, 2013, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the pics, CmdrSlander, and I am sorry that you have found yourself to be high & dry vis-a-vis ammunition.

Too bad you did not, apparently, exhibit the foresight to develop & maintain an adequate contingency supply of ammunition for your firearms caliber(s).

Hopefully, the firearms/ammo insanity will calm down soon and you & your rifle will be back in action. :)

taliv
February 22, 2013, 10:05 AM
what twist is it?

i have seen some places with 80g SMK in stock at less than panic prices. if it's a fast twist that might work.

otherwise, you can still buy 223, it's just expensive

RFMan
February 22, 2013, 10:09 AM
That Wal-Mart pic looks better than most I've seen...and I have been to three in SC recently...

dvdcrr
February 22, 2013, 11:19 AM
.204 around here was on the shelf when no 223 could be had. Ar's and bolts available in that cal. Price is another matter.

greyling22
February 22, 2013, 11:24 AM
Cmdrslander, can you post a picture of your rifle from the top? or a top angle? I'd like to see how the forend flares to flat and how much wood is on the sides of the barrel channel. I want to build a very similar rifle to yours, and am concerned about fitting a varmint contour barrel into a boyds stock.

excellent pictures by the way.

sansone
February 22, 2013, 11:27 AM
nice rifle commander ... very nice

TonyDedo
February 22, 2013, 11:52 AM
I don't know where some of you guys are shopping, but I haven't seen a price change in ammo at my LGS or the big box stores in the last six months. Who the HELL is paying $800 for a case of. 223 or $100 for a brick of. 22??? My LGS has 62gr 5.56 (855) for around $200 for a can of 420, and bricks of bulk .22LR is still $15 at Walmart.

Whoever you're shopping from is gouging you.

PabloJ
February 22, 2013, 12:19 PM
They should label ammo 5,56x45mm that way shelves would not be empty.

CmdrSlander
February 22, 2013, 02:08 PM
what twist is it?

i have seen some places with 80g SMK in stock at less than panic prices. if it's a fast twist that might work.

otherwise, you can still buy 223, it's just expensive
It is a 1 in 9 twist, if I ever get it rebarreled I will go for a 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 with a Wylde chamber, but this gun had less than 500 rounds through it so rebarreling is a long way off.

Arizona_Mike
February 22, 2013, 02:08 PM
I went step further with my Mossberg MVP Predator: .223 and AR Mags :(
I can't even find 10-rounders for prone shooting.

Mike

Sgt_R
February 22, 2013, 02:55 PM
That Wal-Mart pic looks better than most I've seen...and I have been to three in SC recently...

That's in Sumter, if you're in the area. No idea what their current stock looks like, pic is a couple weeks old.

R

Rembrandt
February 22, 2013, 03:21 PM
Bass Pro has so few handguns they'll have to move the gun counter guys to the plastic worm department or lay them off.

capcyclone
February 22, 2013, 06:51 PM
When I bought my varmint rifle I went for a .223 instead of a .22-250 because ".223 is what the AR15 uses, and that thing is so popular, .223 will always be cheap and plentiful" :banghead:



I did the same EXACT thing. I went with a 223 varmint rifle thinking that eventually I'll probably end up with an AR-15 at some point, but until then - at least I'd have plentiful supply of a popular, inexpensive round.

Those coyotes have really had a nice reprieve this winter.:mad:

bogon48
February 22, 2013, 08:20 PM
While I reload, I got a lot of ammo from local gun stores, with Walmart being the cheapest. At WM volume buyers would clean AR and AK ammo out pretty quickly before the mass murders. After the election and the murders, I see the shelves looking naked for a variety of calibers. And prices have jumped at the LGSs too.

Speedo66
February 22, 2013, 09:23 PM
The new NYS firearms law will require a background check on all ammo sales. You know the dealers are not going to want to do this for nothing.

NYS will be setting up their own bureau to do this.

All private firearm sales will have to be through a dealer also. The law mandates a max of $10 that a dealer can charge. Right now most dealers are charging $35-75 for a transfer, so which of them will be doing it for $10? Under the law they are not required to do them.

Warp
February 22, 2013, 10:51 PM
Surely you had enough .223 that you're still okay on ammo?

CmdrSlander
February 22, 2013, 11:03 PM
Surely you had enough .223 that you're still okay on ammo?
Unfortunately no. I shot it all up in November in my friend's AR15 over the course of a very fun weekend!

Auto426
February 22, 2013, 11:45 PM
I say curse all those damn gun grabbing liberals. I've got several AR oriented projects in mind right now, and I've got enough money sitting around to complete one or two of them, but now that may not be possible till next year, if at all.

No4Mk1*
February 23, 2013, 12:38 AM
.223 is very plentiful, just not available to BUY right now. The calibers that are most difficult to find for sale now are the ones which prudent gun owners have stockpiled. You mention a friend with an AR-15. You just need to locate ammo among family or friends. I have enjoyed taking new shooters to the range and supplying ammo to new gun owners due to the fact that I have ammo to spare.

The "security of a free state" cannot be well protected if the "militia" needs to resupply at walmart on a monthly basis.

vtail
February 23, 2013, 01:14 AM
cmdr

What kind of stock is that? Revolution?

CmdrSlander
February 23, 2013, 01:19 AM
cmdr

What kind of stock is that? Revolution?
Boyd's Featherweight thumbhole.

CmdrSlander
February 23, 2013, 01:22 AM
.223 is very plentiful, just not available to BUY right now. The calibers that are most difficult to find for sale now are the ones which prudent gun owners have stockpiled. You mention a friend with an AR-15. You just need to locate ammo among family or friends. I have enjoyed taking new shooters to the range and supplying ammo to new gun owners due to the fact that I have ammo to spare.

The "security of a free state" cannot be well protected if the "militia" needs to resupply at walmart on a monthly basis.

I have enough .22 LR to hold off the gov't... ;)

Glennx39
February 23, 2013, 01:48 AM
The chain stores by me haven't upped prices. You just gotta be there at the right time to get ahold of their regular trickle supplies that, last year, were sufficient. Big stores still have contracts with distributors that are being honored. It'll be awhile before supply normals out, quite a while. But, eventually it will happen. It just really sucks for avid shooters who already have a decent amount already and wanna shoot some cheap steel tula or wolf at the range on the weekend and can't find any. It's the rest of the people who had a box of 20 rounds then freaked out and bought everything they could find. It's times like this I don't know why the majority of people don't reload. But, I'm sure times like this makes people turn to reloading which also ramps up demand for components. Either way I guess you get people more invested in all things related 2nd am., which means more people having fun at the range and enjoying their rights, not to mention more people being better equipped to defend themselves and their families.

Davek1977
February 23, 2013, 02:10 AM
bricks of bulk .22LR is still $15 at Walmart.
That may be true....but it doesn't matter if they're priced at $15 or $75 if they are never in stock. I haven't seen any 22 LR available locally aside from birdshot loads since mid January. Whiile the prices I listed earlier are high (but people are still buying it at those rates apparently) I didn't see an single 500 rd brick of ANY variety of 22LR for under 40 bucks at the local gun show last weekend. and saw PMC Bronze .223 going for 18.99 on a variety of tables . Normally, thats not a big deal...I typically get ammo cheaper elsewhere. However, no where locally has so much as a 50 round box of 22LR on the shelf.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 03:19 AM
My dedicated varmint rig is .22-250. I have never shot a single factory round.

Same here, except mine are .17 Rem and .220 Swift.

About 400 rounds on hand for each, bullets, powder and primers for another 500 .220's and 900 .17's.

I'm out of FMJ pills for .223 plinking ammo, but I've got about 6,300 rounds, so I should be alright for a bit.

Unfortunately, though, this shortage also affects the unpopular rounds. It takes a little longer for that ammo to leave the shelves, but it will take MUCH longer for it to come back, as the ammo makers are focused on the popular stuff.

Cee Zee
February 23, 2013, 03:46 AM
I tell you guys, I'm shocked that dedicated shooters, like the people that hang around these boards, didn't go out and buy up all the ammo they were going to need for a while before the election. Am I the only one that remembered 2009? Heck I stocked up before the 2008 election even though I didn't suspect the shortages of .22 LR that we saw. But I never went without during the whole year of 2009. In fact I shot a whole bunch of ammo that year.

It's much worse now but I have my safe loaded with ammo and cases of the stuff sitting around all over the place. I didn't wait until the last minute. I knew Colorado was about to bring on a push for gun grabbing. Then when the last shooting came along I immediately went out and bought up some ammo. But to tell the truth I didn't really need a lot of ammo at that point. I wasn't going to go through another year of having nothing to shoot. I ordered a case of .22 LR just before Christmas because I knew what was coming. I already had a bunch stocked up before that though.

I keep thinking I will learn to reload. But then I figure I will never make up the money I spend for equipment and supplies before I'm too old to shoot. I have a bunch of ammo to go through before I would ever need to reload. And I have been saving brass for a good while. Maybe I'll sell that.

I just can't figure why people didn't stock up ahead of time. If everyone had did it then there wouldn't be a shortage now. Ammo was very cheap in my area from last winter to the election. Prices had gone down to pre-2008 levels in fact. I bought lots of bricks of .22 LR for $12. Yeah it was bulk ammo but it wasn't junk ammo. It was stuff like CCI Blazer brass and maybe some Winchester 555 or whatever. Pistol ammo was cheap too. I bought a lot of .40 caliber stuff and .45 and .44 magnum. I had some trouble finding enough .380 but I don't target shoot with that anyway. I only shoot enough to practice some and I want enough to carry when I carry that handgun concealed. So I'm set for pretty much every gun I have. If nothing else I'll start shooting my shotguns again. There's plenty of shotgun ammo around.

No4Mk1*
February 23, 2013, 05:55 AM
I don't see how reloading "fixes" the problem as you either stockpiled components or not. It gives you some small benefit in flexibility in that some projectiles, powders, and primers may be used to load different rounds but you still consume one projectile, one primer, and 15-70 grains of powder for every rifle round you load. Again you either stockpile 1-2 years worth of ammo / components or have supply problems when this occurs.
And it will happen again.

sixgunner455
February 23, 2013, 12:01 PM
That small box full of reloading kit mentioned above would surely fit in your trunk.

Just sayin'.

RFMan
February 23, 2013, 01:39 PM
Ah. Well, I pass by on I-20 :) Might take me a little detour next time!

RFMan
February 23, 2013, 01:50 PM
Folks keep saying, "Why didn't you stock up?" I DID stock up; it's a continuous process. I also like to shoot. That means I'm eating into my stock. It's like cash flow, except now we are talking ammo flow :) The quantity on hand is decreasing and not getting replenished at my normal rate due to lack of availability.

So, I DID TOO stock up. For years. But it's STILL an issue, or it will be later, unless things calm down a bit. I can probably shoot for a few years; maybe more for some calibers. I hope to live a bit longer than that :)

And components have been displaying the same behavior; just took a few weeks longer. Not a huge amount of relief from that quarter.

Edit: I have ammo. Some folks probably think I have TOO much - phooey on them :) But before the madness, I had a positive ammo flow - buying more than I was shooting. Now I have a negative ammo flow - shooting more than I am buying, ONLY because the supply has dried up (not because I changed my buying habits, not voluntarily). This just sort of highlights the fragility of the ammo supply chain and susceptibility to panic buying. So, I'm still shooting, but the pile is shrinking rather than growing. Aggravating :)

heeler
February 23, 2013, 02:02 PM
Confession time.
Around two and half years ago an accountant at work was asking me a lot of questions about hunting,rifles,scopes, etc.
Turns out his parents owned 92 acres down in southwest Texas and he wanted to start doing some target shooting and hog and coyote killing on the family ranchstead.
He was about ready to buy a 22-250 and I finally convinced him to buy the .223 instead because you know,ammo is so widely available and he could also buy FMJ for target practice so he would not be wasting soft point hunting ammo blah blah blah....
Well he left for another comapany last spring and I am glad he did because now I dont have to see a guy every day that I advised buying a rifle that is so hard to get ammo for today.
And the worst part of this is that I repeatedly tried to get him to buy online in bulk because it was relatively cheap two years ago but he being an anal retentive money pinching accountant thought you were wasting money by buying more than a couple of boxes of ammo or spending money just to have it lying around for months on end.....

Oh,and Cee Zee,I am one of those guys that knew a storm was brewing and DID stock up pretty heavily.

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