Whatever happened to the Uzi?


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BBQJOE
February 23, 2013, 08:51 AM
When I was much younger, all the talk was about Uzi's.
I seem to remember people losing it, and using them to wreak havoc, or commit crimes.
Of course they were full auto's. I don't remember them being legal at any point, or were they back in the past before certain laws were enacted?
Anyway, the media was all over them much like they are now over "assault" weapons.
Where did they go?
Did they all go under ground? We're they somehow collected and destroyed?

It might be interesting to trace back what happened then, and maybe learn something.

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22-rimfire
February 23, 2013, 08:59 AM
As I recall, Uzi importation was restricted by George H. W. Bush. All of their semi-auto rifles were essentailly banned from being imported into the USA at that time. I saw an ad for a 22 and perhaps that may be coming. They seem to be more of a symbol than anthing particularly different from other semi-auto rifles.

JohnM
February 23, 2013, 09:05 AM
In the late '60s I worked construction overseas, in the part of the world I was in the Uzi was everywhere.
I think they've just been eclipsed by more modern designs.

jon_in_wv
February 23, 2013, 09:05 AM
Its been manufactured in the US too and if they were popular I have no doubt you would see a lot of them around. The fact is they just fell from favor. They are offer no real advantage over either a pistol or a rifle so people tend to pick an alternative. I would suspect that people who would have been inclined to buy an UZI years ago are much more inclined to buy and AR or an AK47 today.

22-rimfire
February 23, 2013, 09:14 AM
After Bush senior restricted importation, they became a collectors item of sorts here. The Carbines with the folding stock were very popular for legal conversion to full auto bolt guns. They are pretty well made. I purchased a carbine at about the time of the ban and it rapidly increased in value. I sold it because I wasn't interested in "collecting" something like that and the accuracy was not particularly great for a rifle. They were however very cool rifles. My expectatios were probably not reasonable considering it was a 9mm "rifle".

bds
February 23, 2013, 09:27 AM
Still alive and well. Vector Arms sells them through dealers in 9mm, 45ACP and 22LR - http://www.vectorarms.com/uzi.html

Atlantic Firearms even sells a CA legal VA model - http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/california-legal-uzi-rifle-9mm-vector-arms-detail.html?Itemid=0

Atlantic Firearms is an active member on THR - http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=27500

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/uzicalegal.jpg

rodinal220
February 23, 2013, 09:32 AM
The UZI pistol is supposed to be coming along with the Tavor,sorry no full size or mini-uzis. I saw the uzi pistol at 2013 SHOT and it has been updated with left side cocking and a rail on top,polymer lower,and US style mag release.
No more imports after Bush SRs 1989 import EO. Mossberg(Uzi America) tried brokering a deal later in the 1990s to sell Uzis and Galils but it never emerged.


http://www.iwi.us/

Steel Horse Rider
February 23, 2013, 09:48 AM
I once had the opportunity to fire a full auto short barrelled 9mm machine pistol. It was a "pray and spray" weapon as the muzzle climb when firing was not very controllable.

BBQJOE
February 23, 2013, 09:58 AM
I guess I'm thinking more about the stigma, than the firearm itself.
I'm sure there are probably plenty still in collectors safes and all.

Was the stigma a fad that came and went?
Was the stigma lost when a ban was put in place?
Or did people just forget?

Again, I seem to remember OMG!!!!! He has an Uzi!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Is there something that happened with that "fearsome" weapon that we can apply positively right now to squelch this fear that is gripping the public?

parsimonious_instead
February 23, 2013, 10:17 AM
I fired a full auto Uzi, and then a full-auto MP5 at a rental range in Las Vegas late last year. No comparison... I felt that the MP5 was far and way the better of the two.

atblis
February 23, 2013, 10:55 AM
Uzis only make sense full auto. Otherwise, why have one?

Sam1911
February 23, 2013, 11:10 AM
Was the stigma a fad that came and went?
Was the stigma lost when a ban was put in place?
Or did people just forget?
Here's a couple of threads that explore the real underlying answer:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=679885
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=688298

The long and the short of it is that time passed, weapon development continued, and the Uzi just faded from public memory. Back in the 60s and 70s, and early 80s, every bad guy (movie or real), Mossad agent, SEAL team member, secret service man, high-security guard, drug smuggler, and Bond villain carried the universal Uzi. They were front and center in the public eye (which means television, of course) every day on the news and every evening at the movies. Every "gun violence" news article used the Uzi for its stock clip art image back then. Even if the story was "local man killed with a muzzle-loader," there'd be an Uzi up on the screen over the anchorman's right shoulder. :D

Then H&K's MP5 stole their spotlight by having better ergos and cachet. The MP5 was suddenly the gun to have, and the Uzi was passe.

But in the last couple of decades the whole heyday of the submachine gun has ended. Further weapon development has showed the almost universal superiority of the short Assault Rifle/carbine to the pistol-caliber subgun, so even the MP5 and its brethren have faded from the collective mass consciousness. Since few of our enemies (or friends) bother with them, the public just doesn't think about them -- and so loses their specific fear of them.

Submachine guns have largely dropped off the radar as they have been mostly supplanted by the more compact assault rifles for almost all military and police uses.

There are still a few interesting true submachine guns being developed and made (H&K UMP, Steyr TMP, Kriss Super V, etc.) but they really aren't getting nearly the use and attention that the Uzi and MP-5 did from the '60s through the '80s, or the Sterlings, M3s, Thompsons, Stens, Swedish K/Port Said/76, PPSh, etc. did in earlier times.

Once groups realized that an M-4 sized assault rifle could do everything a sub gun was good for, but a lot more besides, the calls for them seem to have dried up.

buck460XVR
February 23, 2013, 11:31 AM
.

Due to Obama all guns and ammo are hard to come by now days.


Really? I thought it was because of all the panic buying by those that were previously unprepared. I was under the impression there has been no recent legislation or executive orders directly leading to the shortage......only the recent hoarding and buying of everything in sight by those with the fear they will never be able to get it again. I have been buying guns and ammo for 50 years. Since I started reloading I have been buying enough when it's available so I always have some. Last time my wife was in the reloading room she commented that I probably had enough stuff to last me till I die.....I told her that was the idea. I have all the guns and ammo I'll probably ever need. If you and others don't, the blame is not Obama's....at least not at the moment. If folks don't like the prices and the supply at their LGS, they only need to look in the mirror to know who to blame. Not only because of their panic buying, but because of who they voted for and put into a position of power.

To get back on topic, the Uzi was one of those firearms whose time came and went. It's shortcomings helped to produce better weapons and thus we have moved on, similar to the Gremlin and the Pacer automobiles from the same era........

Sam1911
February 23, 2013, 11:38 AM
Really? I thought it was because of all the panic buying by those that were previously unprepared. I was under the impression there has been no recent legislation or executive orders directly leading to the shortage......only the recent hoarding and buying of everything in sight by those with the fear they will never be able to get it again.Of course...and that's related to Obama's continued term in office and public statements by his office, administration, and party regarding their intents and wishes.

But let's not get off topic with that. The discussion here is of the decline and fall of the Uzi as a perceived public menace.

InkEd
February 23, 2013, 11:53 AM
The H&K MP-5 and FN P-90 made them obsolete.

snake_plisskin
February 23, 2013, 11:54 AM
Again, I seem to remember OMG!!!!! He has an Uzi!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!


I'm willing to bet the media used it as a generic term like "AR-15" and "glock" today to describe any firearm that looks remotely like it.....

Eventually they found a new poster child for "gun violence".

Sam1911
February 23, 2013, 12:02 PM
The H&K MP-5 and FN P-90 made them obsolete.And, in turn, the M-4 made those obsolete for most purposes.

Actually, the P-90 has a very specialized role that is so limited as to be a statistical non-entity, but as it follows the M-4 chronologically, it can only be said to have been made obsolete by the M-4 retroactively.

Certaindeaf
February 23, 2013, 12:08 PM
The H&K MP-5 and FN P-90 made them obsolete.
Yep. The MP-5 happened to the Uzi.

Dain Bramage
February 23, 2013, 12:18 PM
Axl Rose's vanity record label was "Uzi Suicide".

It's all just media smoke-n-mirrors, and the popular scapegoat of the day. If nothing, it's a guide on how things work, and why old folks are jaded, having "been there, and done that" through several cycles of BS. Look up "global cooling", for instance.

similar to the Gremlin and the Pacer automobiles from the same era...

I've never owned an AMC, but it seems unfair to pick both your examples from their stable. I daresay you could ride a BMW and Mercedes of that era, and find it crude and cranky by modern standards.

lemaymiami
February 23, 2013, 12:29 PM
This query about Uzi brings back a few memories... On my "senior trip" to ARVN land, you could always spot the guys who worked for one nameless agency or other since (you guessed it) they were sporting Uzis...

Considering they were first designed for full auto CQB assault they were tops when they first came out (I don't think there was anything comparable at the time). That was a pretty good while before the popular press noticed them. I'd expect that actual pattern of publicity for each new weapon initially designed for serious business but later popularized by movies and the press....

buck460XVR
February 23, 2013, 12:57 PM
.



I've never owned an AMC, but it seems unfair to pick both your examples from their stable. I daresay you could ride a BMW and Mercedes of that era, and find it crude and cranky by modern standards.

I used them because at the time they were very popular and advertised as the future of automobiles. Now they are considered junk and are used regularly in movie and TV comedies to depict the same. Very similar to the handheld calculators and digital watches of the same time. Once, very expensive and cool. Now they are given away as advertising, like ball point pens.....while at the same time a late sixties or early seventies Mercedes or BMW would be a prized classic. Like I said, the shortcomings of the Uzi and the want of something better has brought us better firearms here and now.

BTW......there are two AMC vehicles in my driveway right now.

buck460XVR
February 23, 2013, 01:09 PM
Of course...and that's related to Obama's continued term in office and public statements by his office, administration, and party regarding their intents and wishes.

But let's not get off topic with that. The discussion here is of the decline and fall of the Uzi as a perceived public menace.

I know, I did drift a little bit, but if you read the whole post you did see my opinion on the demise of the UZI....I did try to get back on topic.:)

I'm just tired of folks blaming others for their lack of preparedness. In the reloading forum yesterday I posted about buying 12# of powder and 8000 primers at a small gunsmithing shop in a rural town, not because I needed them, but because they had them for Pre-Frenzy prices. They were never gonna be cheaper. I will probably not live long enough to use all of them, but my two boys will, and I don't have to pay thru the nose or worry about running out. Odds are I wouldn't run out even if I hadn't bought them. Waiting till now to stockpile ammo and look for a desireable furearm is no different than waiting till after the ice storm to go out and buy salt, or waiting till after the hurricane hits to look for a generator. Sorry, but it seems folks that are unprepared always have someone else to blame.

HOWARD J
February 23, 2013, 01:24 PM
I had an Uzi made by IMI
In MI the government made it illegal to own semi-auto that had a folding stock unless it was welded open.
It had to have a 19" barrel --- no 19" barrels were made.
As mine had a folding stock & 2" & 16 " barrel it was illegal.

The gun was a talking point---not good for much--10# empty-it was heavy
The gun as semi-auto was basically useless.
My kids were mad as----- when I sold it--I got tired loading 9 MM ammo as they liked to fire 32 every 4 seconds---it was fast for a semi-auto.

scaatylobo
February 23, 2013, 01:32 PM
The first reason was the MP-5 and then all others that came after.

And yes I agree that the M-4 variants are the best reason for the decline of the Uzi.

I had a semi auto in the 1980's and it was ok [ JUST ok s'all ] and nothing to get excited about past 50 yards.

I did get to play with a local P.D.'s REAL Uzi and that too was ok,nothing too exciting.

Unless you just like to spray and pray.Accurate enough but not my first ----- or even second choice for a close encounter.

They [ along with all others firearms ] are shown in movies as being THE answer to every shot and never running dry.

I class that and the reason for its demise as urban legend come to reality check.

springer99
February 23, 2013, 02:38 PM
Designs changed over time, and the Uzi fell off the list of "must-have" cool type weapons.

Mine still works fine though. You just pull the trigger and the bullets come out the front end. It's about a simple of a weapon as can be built. It is one heavy mother though for a 9mm. I'm sure it will outlast me for sure.

kimbershot
February 23, 2013, 02:59 PM
had a bunch or ar's--sold em for $$$$. had a semi tommy gun--cool but heavy and awkward--like shooting a 2x4 and thought about making it a sbr (who has 20k for f/a?). anyway--bought a vector semi 45 with grease gun lower as well as a uzi lower that i converted to s/a. additionally, i reload my own stuff at about .04c a round. also have 22 conversion unit that works. then installed a burris fastfire 3 co witness and i blast away very respectively at 50+ yards--don't need to shoot football field distance targets.

my uzi is old style, semi auto, heavy and fugly and worth 2x more than i paid for it. it also works everytime i pull the trigger. i am waiting on my sbr tax stamp and i bet i shoot it a lot more than all the folks who own the "other" semi auto black rifles.:p

Certaindeaf
February 23, 2013, 03:02 PM
i bet i shoot it a lot more than all the folks who own the "other" semi auto black rifles.:p
You mean machine pistol. The "other" (MP-5) is generally not owned but essentially shot by government worker types.

OldTex
February 23, 2013, 03:20 PM
I bought an IMI Uzi in 1981, the folding stock variety. It was actually pretty accurate out to 75 yds or so. I traded it straight up for an M1A with lots of accessories. The big gun cost twice what I paid for the Uzi so I felt like a bandit on that deal....until they banned the import of the Uzi and the prices shot up.

I recently got the 45 ACP version that Vector makes. Again a pretty accurate little shooter, with more kick than you'd expect. It looks like everything but the stamped and milled receiver is original IMI; the fire selector is marked in Hebrew.

http://www.pbase.com/texindian/image/148656946.jpg

kimbershot
February 23, 2013, 05:30 PM
thank you certaindeaf. i know what i wrote and i know what i mean. i don't have a machine pistol, i said black rifles. ah, your probably just wet.:neener:

1 old 0311-1
February 23, 2013, 06:00 PM
The Israeli army used them. The Secret Service used them. They were the IN gun for a bit. Then again so was the MAC10, and MAC11 the IN gun for a bit.

somerandomguy
February 23, 2013, 06:48 PM
Alot of the Uzi hype was due to movies and media. The MP5 is the new cool.

Grassman
February 23, 2013, 07:18 PM
I remember back in the late 80's to mid 90's every crime was committed with "Uzi's", according to the media. Kinda of the pre cursor to the fabled "assault weapon" we hear so much about today by our brilliant media.

Certaindeaf
February 23, 2013, 07:20 PM
I think they ran outa rocks.

russ69
February 23, 2013, 07:27 PM
Yep. The MP-5 happened to the Uzi.

Exactly.

Sam1911
February 23, 2013, 07:29 PM
The MP5 is the new cool.The MP5 WAS the new cool, back in about 1990! ;) These days you don't even see them anymore. M4 is the current cool, and the AK variants split time with the M4 as the "gun violence" icon on the news.

somerandomguy
February 23, 2013, 08:19 PM
The MP5 WAS the new cool, back in about 1990! ;) These days you don't even see them anymore. M4 is the current cool, and the AK variants split time with the M4 as the "gun violence" icon on the news.
Those derned assault rifles... :p

TIMC
February 23, 2013, 08:35 PM
I have one of the IMI semi-auto Uzi's; fun gun to play with and quite accurate even at 100 yards. I also have the .45 acp conversion kit for mine which is cool also. I have 3 different top covers set up in different configurations, plain for open sights, one with a Burris fast fire and one with a 4x scope.
The gun is heavy and I really only think of it as a range toy but I like it none the less.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Uziwithfastfire.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/UZIandKahrMK9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/UziFebruary2009.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Uzicase.jpg

rtz
February 23, 2013, 08:53 PM
UZI, MAC-10, TEC-9. The favorite movie guns of the day. Maybe because AR's/AK's weren't as plentiful, available, or as low cost back then?

Were AK's a common item at the gun stores? Cheap?

Were there other choices besides a Colt or Bushmaster AR back then?

Lex Luthier
February 23, 2013, 09:38 PM
Shot about 96 rounds of 9mm through mine this morning. Despite what seems to be a general dislike of them, I love mine. It ALWAYS gets a little attention at the range. Semi-auto is good enough for the coolness factor. Bought brand new in the box.

Accurate, short enough with the 16" barrel, 9mm cheap enough, looks good on a sling. It will remain in the permanent collection.

mac66
February 24, 2013, 01:23 PM
I built a semi auto UZI during the AWB from mostly parts bought on Ebay. I still have enough parts to build another, just need a lower receiver.

They are over engineered for a 9mm particularly in semi auto. They are however pretty fun to shoot and mine is pretty accurate out to 100 yards or so depending on ammo used. I put a wood stock on mine to get around the folding stock ban in my state.

The UZI is an iconic firearm design. I don't think I will ever get rid of mine.

Shown with a 1911 Carbine Conversion Unit

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/mac66/bad5.jpg

JFrame
February 24, 2013, 01:42 PM
I'm sure a lot of the mystique of the Uzi grew around the phenomenal performance of the Israeli military at Entebbe and during the Six-Day War, etc. Of course, a lot of the Israeli success could be attributed to the equally phenomenal ineptitude of the Ugandan, U.A.R. (Egyptian), and Syrian troops -- but we likewise cannot dismiss the preparedness, training, and smarts of the Israelis. And, of course, armored and air performance accounted for much of the lop-sided results in the Six-Day War -- but the Uzi held its own in close-quarter bunker shootouts against the Arabs, and contributed heavily to its appeal and aura of efficiency.


.

W L Johnson
February 24, 2013, 06:51 PM
Uzis only make sense full auto. Otherwise, why have one?
This
Otherwise they're heavy, clumsy, with lousy ergos. For semi-auto fire there are many carbines on the market for the same money, or less, that are much more comfortable to shoot. All IMHO.

Capybara
February 25, 2013, 01:04 AM
While not the most practical pistol caliber carbine, I love mine, have wanted one since I was a kid. Built like a tank, dead simple to take down and assemble, very reliable, heavy as an anvil, no recoil, great for beginners to shoot.

Not for everyone but I love mine.

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w489/capybara84/UziLFull.jpg

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w489/capybara84/UziRFull.jpg

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w489/capybara84/UziChargingHandle.jpg

justice06rr
February 25, 2013, 01:15 AM
I agree the Uzi attraction just faded over time and was replaced by prettier and more effective guns. Their price might've been an issue too. I think last time I saw a semi-auto Uzi at the lgs was around $1500+. I know they do sell the cheaper version/copies but they are probably impossible to find now.

donkee
February 25, 2013, 11:31 AM
I have a riot with my Vector UZI. It is Michigan legal with the anteater barrel and all.

It is heavy but the reward is no recoil. Using it in PCC matches years ago I did very well. No accuracy issues and the extra long barrel makes 1400 or so FPS with my handloads.

That UZI is one that will remain in the collection till my kids inherit it.

mac66
February 25, 2013, 11:38 AM
The secret service guy with the UZI during the Reagan assassination attempt became an iconic figure as well as the use by the Israelis.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/mac66/WVBxB_zpsf3f0b32b.jpg

19-3Ben
February 25, 2013, 12:03 PM
I think that if the Uzi had the shoulder thing that goes up, it would have maintained more popularity.;)

JFrame
February 25, 2013, 01:10 PM
While not the most practical pistol caliber carbine, I love mine, have wanted one since I was a kid. Built like a tank, dead simple to take down and assemble, very reliable, heavy as an anvil, no recoil, great for beginners to shoot.

Not for everyone but I love mine.

http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w489/capybara84/UziLFull.jpg

I have to say -- the Uzi really takes on a whole new personality with a wood stock and a suppressor...I LIKE it! http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/just_cuz/JC_doubleup.gif


.

Capybara
February 25, 2013, 03:06 PM
Thanks JFrame, me also. Keep in mind that I live in California where "real" IMI Uzis were banned by name so this is a Vector. Suppressors are prohibited here as well, this is a Title II Arms fake suppressor, I simply like the look better than with the stupid 16" pencil barrel.

It is a great little gun, I got it for $725.00 on sale last year. I agree too, it doesn't look like a regular Uzi. The wooden stock was what Uziel Gal originally had on his in the early days and I like it much better than the uncomfortable folding stock. I am a big fan of wooden rifles over my plastic ARs anyway so it works for me.

JFrame
February 25, 2013, 04:46 PM
Thanks JFrame, me also. Keep in mind that I live in California where "real" IMI Uzis were banned by name so this is a Vector. Suppressors are prohibited here as well, this is a Title II Arms fake suppressor, I simply like the look better than with the stupid 16" pencil barrel.

It is a great little gun, I got it for $725.00 on sale last year. I agree too, it doesn't look like a regular Uzi. The wooden stock was what Uziel Gal originally had on his in the early days and I like it much better than the uncomfortable folding stock. I am a big fan of wooden rifles over my plastic ARs anyway so it works for me.

Hey Man -- nothing wrong with a cool-looking gun, "fake" or otherwise (and it's hard to think of any firearm that sends serious rounds down-range as any kind of "fake").

Your Uzi would be as prized a piece in my collection as it is yours. :)


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