VERY disappointed


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MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 05:15 PM
The turnout today at the Colorado capital in Denver was no where near what I had expected. I hope it was better in others cities.

If you gripe about gun control but could not be bothered to attend these rallies across the country, then SHAME ON YOU!

Some folks have legitimate excuses, but the day of resistance has been planned for a month, and was a whopping 2 hour commitment. Very few people can't dedicate a half-day with that much notice. And I don't want to hear "I didn't know about it"; it's been all over the social networking sites, and ya'll should have been searching regularly for scheduled pro RKBA demonstrations anyway.

I'm ticked right now. For all the whining about proposed gun control on this forum alone, I would have expected overwhelming crowds.

If you blew off these demonstrations, haven't written congresscritters or have otherwise done nothing more than gripe in conversation or on internet bulletin boards, you'll have no one to blame but yourself if this garbage passes in your state or at the federal level.

Laziness will be our undoing this time.

/rant off

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jerkface11
February 23, 2013, 05:23 PM
Yeah how dare us have jobs families and lives.

X-JaVeN-X
February 23, 2013, 05:29 PM
Yeah how dare us have jobs families and lives.
That's a cop out... If you can't plan two hours out of your month for something you believe in, then maybe you don't really believe it. Now, if you don't really care, than that is your prerogative. However, if you are going to gripe and complain, then walk the walk too.

Thanks OP...some people need to hear the truth whether they like it or not.

Larry Ashcraft
February 23, 2013, 05:31 PM
We were at Angela Giron's Town Hall Meeting at the Pueblo Library. Awesome turnout of 400-500, and not an anti among them.

I just hope we did some good. She seems pretty thick, but "Would you like to have a chance to be elected again?" may have gotten through.

jerkface11
February 23, 2013, 05:34 PM
Yeah it's a cop out. I don't need to pay the rent or put food on the table.

ATBackPackin
February 23, 2013, 05:35 PM
I went to a rally in January at the capitol building in Harrisburg, PA. and there was probably less than 150 people there.

Very disappointing indeed.

BlkLtng02
February 23, 2013, 05:35 PM
Sorry I couldn't make it. I was in Evergreen letting Senator Jeanne Nicholson know how I feel about all the new Gun Control laws. The turnout was about 90 pro gun to 4 anti gun.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 05:37 PM
Yeah how dare us have jobs families and lives.

Please.

I run my own business, am raising twin girls of 2-1/2 years and have plenty of things I'd rather be doing that standing on the side of the road in front of the capitol holding a sign for half the day.

This is more important. Period.

Yeah it's a cop out. I don't need to pay the rent or put food on the table.

You better hope I don't find quotes from you flaming companies who haven't refused LE sales because they put their business and employee's paycheck ahead of politics.

X-JaVeN-X
February 23, 2013, 05:37 PM
Yeah it's a cop out. I don't need to pay the rent or put food on the table.

so do I...and I have a family...and I live pay check to pay check...what's your excuse again?

jerkface11
February 23, 2013, 05:39 PM
You run your own business so you're your own boss. So don't sit there and tell me I can just take off on the busiest day of the week. Maybe you should turn the self righteous indignation off.

taliv
February 23, 2013, 05:43 PM
heck, i wrote all of CO's state reps and senators and I live over 1000 miles east. local turnouts for 2A rallies in TN have been quite good.

X-JaVeN-X
February 23, 2013, 05:44 PM
I don't own my own business...and I took off (so did my wife btw). I'm sure you've taken off work for many things before be it a Dr.'s appointment or just cause you wanted to get some work caught up around the house or just to do nothing all day and stare at the television. If you can take off time for any of the above, then you can take off a couple hours to support something you believe. Again...maybe you just don't care that much, and that is absolutely your call and I can't argue you for that. The problem is when you play the excuse game when too many other people could have easily used the same reasoning to not go, but instead found a way.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 05:47 PM
You run your own business so you're your own boss.

I also don't get paid if I'm not working, genius.

Think those of us who are self employed just get to do what we want, when we want? Think again. Most of us put in at least 60-70 hours/week on average, and we don't get overtime. Sometimes we don't make anything.

BlkLtng02-

I'm not bemoaning those who weren't at the rallies but were doing other productive pro-RKBA things. I'm annoyed with those who decided that watching the boob tube, going shopping, screwing around here on THR, etc was more important.

beatledog7
February 23, 2013, 05:49 PM
Lighten up MachIV and X-JaV, please. Your guns are more important than your children?

I was working today as well, as I do every Saturday. I'm glad you and many others in a whole bunch of states are able to take the time and go march on Saturdays, but I'm under contract to be somewhere else.

Do you have some hidden insight into another person's pro-2A activities? I thought not. Please don't throw stones at your teammates.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 05:56 PM
Your guns are more important than your children?

Who ever said that?

The guns are important because of the children; to protect them, to ensure their future right to protect themselves and their children, to defend this nation against itself.

I don't think spending the day with mommy so I could do this negatively impacts them.

As for work; I worked for other people for 14 years before starting my own company; NEVER was there a time I couldn't get a Saturday off with a month's notice, and I was lead tech.

I was more understanding of those who couldn't get a Tuesday or Wednesday off when we only found out about the hearings the Friday before, but this is a different story.

buck460XVR
February 23, 2013, 05:57 PM
This thread is a prime example of a disturbing trend I see here and on other gun forums lately......the division and alienation of fellow gun enthusiasts. Instead of trashing our fellow gun owners for what they aren't doing, we should applaud them for what they are doing and encourage them to do more. Folks need to leave the "my dog is bigger than your dog" and "I love guns more than you do" attitude at the door. MachIVshooter, while it is obvious you were disappointed in the showing today, it does no good to come here and take your frustration out on others that hold the same things dear that you do. We need to stick together, not fight amongst ourselves.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 06:04 PM
Buck-

I'm not trying to divide. I'm trying to get people to take some responsibility, to do their civic duty and stand up for their rights, your rights, my rights, ALL of our rights.

I tried imploring people; that didn't work. So we're gonna give shaming a go.

If you don't vote, you don't get to complain about election outcomes. If you don't stand up for your right, you don't get to complain about it's being infringed upon. Pretty simple.

In short, don't expect others to fight your battles for you. This is our fight, all of us. If you have a problem with gun control, you have a duty to fight it in every way you can.

If you have been active in this fight, then this thread wasn't about you.

jerkface11
February 23, 2013, 06:05 PM
You took a Saturday off for personal reasons. I had to work. Honestly you can be disappointed all day long if you want. I'll still be able to sleep tonight.

Screamin'Eagle
February 23, 2013, 06:08 PM
Buck,

Mach is holding fellow rkba and gun right proponents accountable and stating he was disappointed with the turnout. Nothing wrong with that. It wasn't a personal attack but more a call to action to highlight the fact we can't sit back and assume everyone is doing the work.

Edit: looks like mach replied faster than I.

Trent
February 23, 2013, 06:12 PM
There were rallies today???

I didn't hear of anything in IL.

Of course, we've got 12,000+ gun owners descending on Springfield, IL in a week and a half for the iGOLD lobbying day. That'll create a bit of a stir.

beatledog7
February 23, 2013, 06:14 PM
I run my own business, am raising twin girls of 2-1/2 years and have plenty of things I'd rather be doing that standing on the side of the road in front of the capitol holding a sign for half the day.

This is more important. Period.

Post #8.

Again, Mach, you have no clue what any of the rest us are doing WRT fighting for 2A. Throwing punches at each other is not going to help.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 06:15 PM
Look, guys, I'm not grandstanding here. I could abstain from this and be just fine with the impending laws, because they all grandfather what we have. I've got more than 200 standard capacity magazines, tens of thousands of rounds, a half dozen ARs and times 3 other autoloading rifles.

This is about the future of RKBA and the future of our nation. If I were inclined to be selfish and take a "sun is shining in my backyard" attitude, I could, and really not be worse off. I'm not the one scrambling for P-mags and AR lowers. I'm doing what I do so you can get them later, so my daughter's children's grandchildren can have effective self defense tools decades from now.

This is far larger than me, my family or even guns. To quote one of the signs I carry:

"It's About Liberty, Stupid!"

jerkface11
February 23, 2013, 06:16 PM
Maybe you should look up the definition of grandstanding.

X-JaVeN-X
February 23, 2013, 06:16 PM
This thread is a prime example of a disturbing trend I see here and on other gun forums lately......the division and alienation of fellow gun enthusiasts. Instead of trashing our fellow gun owners for what they aren't doing, we should applaud them for what they are doing and encourage them to do more. Folks need to leave the "my dog is bigger than your dog" and "I love guns more than you do" attitude at the door. MachIVshooter, while it is obvious you were disappointed in the showing today, it does no good to come here and take your frustration out on others that hold the same things dear that you do. We need to stick together, not fight amongst ourselves.
You can't have one without the other. When my boy does something good...I praise him for it. However, when he does something wrong am I not suppose to get on his case about it? I'm sure everyone here appreciates what others in the gun community are doing. However, I wasn't raised to need the recognition of others to do the right thing. You just do it. When you screw up...you own it.

“In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Humakavula
February 23, 2013, 06:21 PM
This thread =/= thehighroad

BBQJOE
February 23, 2013, 06:21 PM
I too own my own business.
You should see how people act later when they've decided to make a 100, 200, or even 300 mile round trip to go out to eat, and the place is closed, for any reason.
Yeah, I didn't go.

I have written everyone I can think of though, and not just once.

My biggest fear, besides this thread closing before I get this post done is this:
We WILL stand united, and we WILL fall divided.

The one thing that stands out in my mind is a situation at a job. It was pretty bad. People were mad, and getting madder about it.
Finally it reached a point. I talked amongst my co-workers and said, you know what? If it happens again, I'm gonna quit.
They all agreed, and said, well if you quit, I'll quit too, and it seemed pretty damn solid among everyone.
Well, it happened again.

I said enough is enough! and headed for the time clock. As I looked behind me, guess who was there?

NO ONE!

That is my fear on this issue.

Everyone had a reason not to stand up and say that's it! My dog, er, my Mom, ah my kids, I gotta keep this job, I would but....

Yeah.
We will fall divided.

jcwit
February 23, 2013, 06:21 PM
Yeah it's a cop out. I don't need to pay the rent or put food on the table.


You living that close to the edge?

Maybe you need to review your spending priorities.

CJW
February 23, 2013, 06:23 PM
Just my .02 on this emerging topic....

I joined the NRA and also wrote to my Reps. and Senators, however, I think protest gatherings are somewhat futile. Just look at the March for Life that happens every January and draws massive crowds to DC. The media and politicians ignore them every year, and abortion is still legal after almost 40 years. IMHO, the best thing and only real thing we can do is vote against the antis when they are up for re-election. A protest is just a threat to vote against them. I say just do it - vote against them every time you can. They really don't care about protesters or the signs they carry. The politicians who are anti 2A will be anti 2A no matter if 100 people or 10000 show up for a protest. JUST VOTE AGAINST THEM IN EVERY ELECTION, and try to talk your family and friends into voting against them too.

As I said, just my .02

baz
February 23, 2013, 06:30 PM
Yeah it's a cop out. I don't need to pay the rent or put food on the table.What part of the state are you in? If you had to work, you shouldn't feel defensive about not attending. Rather, you could have acknowledged the OP's disappointment by expressing a desire to have been there, but that circumstances just didn't permit it. Your response was unnecessarily confrontational.

The attendance in Little Rock was modest, 200-300 by my estimate. MachIVshooter, my sense of these rallies is that they were very lowlevel "grassroots." While the word was spread around via various social media, there was no big traditional media pushing awareness of these events. There was no confrontation -- say like a march on the capitol during session -- to grab traditional media's attention. I'm waiting to see if there will be any local news coverage. If not, it will not be because of the low turnout. Even with the modest crowd in Little Rock, there were good speeches, good home and handmade signs with pithy comments, Gadsden flags, and other things that a media story could turn on. But it was all just too low key, I think, for that kind of attention.

I'm sure there will be other rallies and events that do better.

However, I will say that given your location, I can especially appreciate and share in your frustration and disappointment. We've got it good, right now, by comparison, in Arkansas. No so much, there in Colorado.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 06:30 PM
CJW-

It's not about swaying the politician's personal opinions. It's about showing them, and the public, that we care enough to stand up in large numbers and speak out against it. Hundreds of people gathered in front of state houses gets attention, no doubt about it.

It's also about bringing attention to the issue; You should see how many passers-by don't really know anything about the fight going on, but are on our side once they do.

Yes, voting is very important. But so is writing letters and demonstrating publicly. It sends a message; If you're motivated enough to stand for hours in a city you hate on a chilly February day, you're motivated enough to campaign against your opposition 2 or 4 years from now. If hundreds or thousands of people do the same, the threat of campaign against the opponent becomes a very real and very ominous one.

Mosbyranger
February 23, 2013, 06:36 PM
Well, the rally in Grand Junction attracted about 400-500 people. Not what I had hoped for but a fairly solid crowd, despite the wind and cold. State Senator Steve King was there, so we are getting some traction. I had to leave early as I am sick as a dog just right now, but overall I'd say the 2-23 rally was a success.
MR

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 06:40 PM
I had to leave early as I am sick as a dog just right now

Thank you for sucking it up and being there!

The crowd in Denver was half that, I'd guess 200-250. Pathetic, considering the population density within 50 miles.

I'm not terribly far from Denver, but not really close, either. On a good day, it's an hour drive.

labhound
February 23, 2013, 06:40 PM
I'd like to thank all those who have attended the rallies, thank those who have written or called their Congressman, Senators, and local/state elected officials. For those that haven't done all or part or part of this, I'd like to request that you try do so, if possible. I'd also like to request THR members to quit taking out their frustration on fellow members when they have no idea what efforts are being put forward by any/all of us. It makes us look pathetically divided!!! :fire: :cuss: :banghead:

bri
February 23, 2013, 06:47 PM
What a great way to inspire your fellow firearm enthusiasts.

Nice work.

buck460XVR
February 23, 2013, 06:51 PM
Buck,

Mach is holding fellow rkba and gun right proponents accountable and stating he was disappointed with the turnout. Nothing wrong with that. It wasn't a personal attack but more a call to action to highlight the fact we can't sit back and assume everyone is doing the work.

.
But we also can't assume just because everyone in the gun community wasn't at the rally, that those that weren't there were sluffin' off or lazy. There are many battles on different days. You don't see a Normandy Invasion vet telling a Iwo vet he was lazy and didn't care cause he wasn't in France on D-Day. Same here. While I'm sure there are many folks that will sit back, do nothing and then, when they lose some sort of firearm privilege, scream like a little girl. That happens all the time....part of human nature. But making attacks against folks with similar passions and community for reasons as foolish as this thread, does little to cement that community. It just divides us and makes us more vulnerable.

You can't have one without the other. When my boy does something good...I praise him for it. However, when he does something wrong am I not suppose to get on his case about it? I'm sure everyone here appreciates what others in the gun community are doing. However, I wasn't raised to need the recognition of others to do the right thing. You just do it. When you screw up...you own it.

“In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing." - Theodore Roosevelt

Again, the assumption is being made that just cause some folks weren't involved today, that they are or have been doing nothing. I spend twenty nights a year teaching gun safety to youths in the area. Am I doing nothing to promote responsible gun ownership and the shooting sports because I didn't stand along side a road somewhere ONE afternoon with a sign in my hands? Exactly what did I screw up and now hafta own? Do you criticize and get on your boy's case for not getting his chores done because he was in school all day? No....you give him a chance to get them done when he gets home. You do that cause you know what his schedule and other life activities are. You know none of this about other members here.....you just automatically assume they are doing nothing and you are doing more. You are dividing the ranks without any knowledge why.

Certaindeaf
February 23, 2013, 06:53 PM
The turnout today at the Colorado capital in Denver was no where near what I had expected. I hope it was better in others cities.

If you gripe about gun control but could not be bothered to attend these rallies across the country, then SHAME ON YOU!

Some folks have legitimate excuses, but the day of resistance has been planned for a month, and was a whopping 2 hour commitment. Very few people can't dedicate a half-day with that much notice. And I don't want to hear "I didn't know about it"; it's been all over the social networking sites, and ya'll should have been searching regularly for scheduled pro RKBA demonstrations anyway.

I'm ticked right now. For all the whining about proposed gun control on this forum alone, I would have expected overwhelming crowds.

If you blew off these demonstrations, haven't written congresscritters or have otherwise done nothing more than gripe in conversation or on internet bulletin boards, you'll have no one to blame but yourself if this garbage passes in your state or at the federal level.

Laziness will be our undoing this time.

/rant off
Yea, we can only vote. And bitch and moan also. Vote.

hso
February 23, 2013, 06:54 PM
http://www.local8now.com/home/headlines/Day-of-Resistance-rally-tomorrow-as-gun-debate-continues-192633001.html

15 people rallied on Friday here for the other side. They are outnumbered by the hundreds opposing any further restrictions.

http://www.local8now.com/news/headlines/Hundreds-rally-for-Second-Amendment-rights-in-Sevierville-192747761.html

Gaiudo
February 23, 2013, 06:58 PM
If you're feeling somehow offended at MachIVshooter... that's too bad. I don't hear him specifically blaming you. It's important to hold the broader shooting community accountable. There's a difference between placing blame and raising awareness.

If only 200 people showed up from the entire Denver area, that's appalling, and we should be trying to motivate and activate that community.

bri
February 23, 2013, 07:05 PM
... we should be trying to motivate and activate that community.

Exactly, but that certainly isn't the way to motivate this community.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 07:06 PM
But making attacks against folks with similar passions and community for reasons as foolish as this thread, does little to cement that community.

You need to read my OP more carefully. I did not say "if you weren't at these rallies, your the enemy." No. I said if you couldn't be bothered, if you haven't written letters or done other things.

You folks know what you have or haven't done, so decide whether this applies to you or not.

If you didn't make the rallies, but have sent dozens of emails, made phone calls, contributed to NRA/NAGR/etc., then you know I'm not directing my ire at you.

But if you're one who whines here or on other forums, pesters the LGS and scours online for magazines and AR parts, but has made no actual effort to oppose these laws, then you are part of the problem.

My disappointment comes from how many supposed "gun people" I personally informed of these rallies that have no excuse but didn't show up, and knowing that the situation is likely the same amongst other groups, including THR. If it's any indication of people's willingness to resist tyranny, and I believe it is, we're screwed.

There's always lots of griping and chest thumping about gun control. I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you can't be bothered to pick up a pen or a picket sign to fight for your rights, I strongly suspect you won't pick up a rifle to do so, either.

taliv
February 23, 2013, 07:09 PM
the sad fact is that historically, a tiny fraction of the population fights for their rights and the vast majority benefit from their work. most of that majority don't mind sitting on the shoulders of giants, but the conscience of some bothers them and they become defensive about it.

Larry Ashcraft
February 23, 2013, 07:16 PM
If only 200 people showed up from the entire Denver area, that's appalling, and we should be trying to motivate and activate that community.
Yes, it is (appalling). We had well over 400 show up here in Pueblo. If there was a single anti in the crowd (other than Angela Giron), I would be surprised.

JRH6856
February 23, 2013, 07:16 PM
People who care take actions that they feel will be most effective. Those seeking to sway opinions often pursue actions that they feel might sway their own opinions.

Some people are impressed by large groups of people carrying signs and chanting slogans. Others perhaps not so much. Protest demonstrations have never impressed me or swayed my opinion in a positive way. If that is your thing, fine. It isn't mine. Doesn't mean I don't care, I just focus on other methods.

Walkalong
February 23, 2013, 07:17 PM
Y'all lighten up a little. Jeez. No need to get all worked up to the point of infighting. Our anti friends would love that.

Lets keep on topic, which I believe is that we need better participation in letter writing, rallies, etc.

MachIVshooter is disappointed that the turnout was poor. I understand that. Can't we let him vent a little among friends without fighting?

barnbwt
February 23, 2013, 07:25 PM
Wow, lots of the responses here literally sound like people who got caught sleeping on the job! :D "What? I was tired. I was up all night with the kids. Night shift takes it out of you"

I offer no excuses for not attending. Except for these:
There were rallies today???
Yeah, what rallies, indeed? I hadn't heard of any, and I troll these boards constantly (was Texas left out, or something?)

And, I came down with a head cold yesterday, and didn't feel up for much besides trolling the boards (boreds :D) today. It's for the good of the group that I abstained; or else next week the entire movement could come down with a cold and be defenseless! :eek: Terrible timing. Obama must be targeting me with germ warfare again...;)

So...when are the next rallies? (seeing as I didn't' get the memo on this last round)

TCB

buck460XVR
February 23, 2013, 07:39 PM
If you didn't make the rallies, but have sent dozens of emails, made phone calls, contributed to NRA/NAGR/etc., then you know I'm not directing my ire at you.



My disappointment comes from how many supposed "gun people" I personally informed of these rallies that have no excuse but didn't show up, and knowing that the situation is likely the same amongst other groups, including THR. If it's any indication of people's willingness to resist tyranny, and I believe it is, we're screwed.

There's always lots of griping and chest thumping about gun control. I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you can't be bothered to pick up a pen or a picket sign to fight for your rights, I strongly suspect you won't pick up a rifle to do so, either.

Again, I understand your frustration MachIVshooter. Most of my comments were not directed towards you or your frustration. As with any volunteer scenario, be it church, local PTA or youth sports, the majority of the work gets done by the minority of the people. As a organizer you make phone calls, send letters and e-mails and get a ton of promises from folk. Then on the day you need them, a handful show up and the rest have a lame excuse. My frustration is not from having folks think I am not doing anything, but the division I have seen lately here and in the gun community in general. At a time when we should be binding together and utilizing the strength we have in our numbers, many insist on criticizing or belittling.....and yes much of it is internet chest thumping. All of us are here because we are gun enthusiasts. All of us are aware that our rights are being challenged. While everyone is good at something, none of us are good at everything. We all need to do something to contribute, but there are many ways to contribute. If some want to contribute less, we still cannot afford to push them away. We need all the help we can get. That's all I'm trying to say

blkbrd666
February 23, 2013, 07:46 PM
Exactly, but that certainly isn't the way to motivate this community.

Ironically, can't force them to go at gunpoint either...picture that for a moment. :D

readyeddy
February 23, 2013, 07:53 PM
I also didn't hear about the rallies. I don't do any social network, but I'm here almost every day.

hso
February 23, 2013, 07:57 PM
"I didn't know"
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=704098 :scrutiny:

Hokkmike
February 23, 2013, 07:57 PM
We are all in this together but not every body can be every where all of the time.

The OP is right, more people need to make the effort.

Those that can should be there.

We should support those that can't.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 08:09 PM
We all need to do something to contribute, but there are many ways to contribute. If some want to contribute less, we still cannot afford to push them away. We need all the help we can get. That's all I'm trying to say

I agree wholeheartedly. My contempt is for those who think that complaining on bulletin boards among like-minded people and buying a few magazines is "contributing" to the cause. Trust me, there is no shortage of these folks.

The one I really can't understand is the gun shop owners who don't go to rallies, don't write or call congresscritters, don't give to RKBA organizations. This is their livelihood; If the federal government were trying to impose an SUV ban or something, I'd be all over it, seeing as I'm a shop owner.

Some people are impressed by large groups of people carrying signs and chanting slogans. Others perhaps not so much.

I'll defer to my above comment regarding the effectiveness of protests/demonstrations:

It's not about swaying the politician's personal opinions. It's about showing them, and the public, that we care enough to stand up in large numbers and speak out against it. Hundreds of people gathered in front of state houses gets attention, no doubt about it.

It's also about bringing attention to the issue; You should see how many passers-by don't really know anything about the fight going on, but are on our side once they do.

Yes, voting is very important. But so is writing letters and demonstrating publicly. It sends a message; If you're motivated enough to stand for hours in a city you hate on a chilly February day, you're motivated enough to campaign against your opposition 2 or 4 years from now. If hundreds or thousands of people do the same, the threat of campaign against the opponent becomes a very real and very ominous one.

BK
February 23, 2013, 08:19 PM
I should have been there and I would have been there except that I didn't know enough in order to respect the effort that was taking place. When I saw thread titles about "Day of Resistance", I didn't bother to look further within because it struck me as an anarchist/AR15.com/OccupyWallstreet riot-fest. I didn't want to meet up with a bunch of dope smoking rioters and get arrested for being in the vicinity of a burning police car.

I didn't know it was a decent example of public discourse because the title/theme turned me off from even knowing what it was about. I apologize and I should have looked deeper so that I could participate. I hope I don't make this mistake again.

CrypticStatic
February 23, 2013, 08:44 PM
I believe there was around 400 at the Rally in St. Cloud, MN today. We had great speakers and it just felt great to be out there fighting for our second amendment rights that are under severe attack from extremists that want to control all aspect of our lives.

I wish it were thousands out there but I can only hope that we all do our part in some way to fight back against the people that are actively trying to strip our rights away.

Remember to donate money to the pro-gun groups who are helping to maintain our rights.

Even just $5 a month would make a huge difference and could mean that your pro-gun group that you support could have a full time paid lobbyist taking our fight to the forefront.

larryh1108
February 23, 2013, 09:02 PM
Yep, divide and conquer. An old way to win the war. Obama is walking around with tears in his eyes telling us how we need to act now before we forget and he makes all kinds of threats that his advisors tell him are basically useless and we focus on the big picture while each state, one-by-one, takes our rights away. He doesn't want to win the big war, he wants to win the 51 little battles. He sucks up the resources of the NRA into fighting 51 battles and here we sit, becoming divided among ourselves. Yep, divide and conquer and they are winning and here we are bickering and pointing fingers at our brothers.

baz
February 23, 2013, 09:12 PM
Yeah, what rallies, indeed? I hadn't heard of any, and I troll these boards constantly (was Texas left out, or something?)Do you "troll" (not really the best verb to be using in this context) the Activism forum here? It was announced there (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=704098). You could have followed a link I posted there and you'd have found plenty of places to go in Texas:Texas:

Alvin Day of Resistance Rally
Location: Stanton’s Grocery 219 N. Taylor Street, Alvin TX
Time: 2p
Sponsoring Organization:
Contact Information: Guy Glimp, gglimp@hotmail.com
Facebook Page:

Brownsville Day of Resistance Rally
Location: TBD
Time: TBD
Sponsoring Organization: Brownsville Tea Party
Contact Information: Terry Frady, terryfrady956@gmail.com
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Brownsville-Area-Tea-Party-Association/302389109793121

Belton County Day of Resistance Rally
Location: Confederate Park on I-35 (Take Central exit, go south on service road approx. one half mile. Park is on the right.).
Time: 10:00am until 4:00pm
Sponsoring Organization:
Contact Information: Keith Lee, keithprestonlee@gmail.com
Facebook Page:

Burleson County Day of Resistance Rally
(No Weapons Allowed)
Location: Caldwell VFW Post 4458
1644 State Highway 36 S
Caldwell, TX 77836
Time: 11:00am-2:00pm
Sponsoring Organization:
Contact Information: David Osgood, david@burlesoncountydayofresistance.com
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Burleson-County-Texas-Day-of-Resistance/107315162783880

Dallas/Fort Worth Day of Resistance Rally
Location: 8100 Doran Circle, Dallas TX
Time: 2p-5p
Sponsoring Organization:
Contact Information: fatimasfreedomblog@gmail.com
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fort-Worth-TX-Day-of-Resistance/410937885655571

Erath County Day of Resistance Rally
Location: South Side Erath County Courthouse, Stephenville, TX
Time: 10a
Sponsoring Organization:
Contact Information: Danny Pelton, danny@dannypelton.org
Facebook Page:

Houston Day of Resistance Rally
Location: The Arms Room, 3270 Gulf Freeway, League City, TX 77573
Time: 3 pm - 5pm
Sponsoring Organization: www.clearlaketeaparty.com
Contact Information: Dale Huls, dhuls912@gmail.com
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Houston-TX-Day-of-Resistance/334628593319598

Richmond, TX Day of Resistance Rally
Location: XTREME Guns and Ammo 1110 Hwy 90A East, Ste. C
Time: 3pm
Sponsoring Organization:Sugar Land Tea Party and Greater Fort Bend County Tea Party
Contact Information: Nancy Dunham nance00@windstream.net

Tyler, TX Day of Resistance Rally
Location: TBD
Time: TBD
Sponsoring Organization:
Contact Information: Christy Walsh, 1259christy@gmail.com
Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/events/152009314952976/?context=create

Victoria, TX Day of Resistance Rally
Location: De Leon Plaza Downtown Victoria across from First Victoria National Bank
Time: 1 pm – 4 pm
Sponsoring Organization:
Contact Information: Bryan Billings, itech67@yahoo.com, 361.935.0807
Facebook Page:

So yes, there was plenty of action in Texas today, too.

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 09:23 PM
Yep, divide and conquer and they are winning and here we are bickering and pointing fingers at our brothers.

My voice at a demonstration or a committee hearing is the same, whether I speak with the support of 10 or 10,000 who are silent. Uniting is useless if it's the same paltry number of us actually fighting the battles.

Moral support doesn't put boots on the ground.

That was the point of this thread. Like I said, I have tried motivating people in many ways, and my options have been whittled down to shaming or bribing those who, this late in the game, still aren't in the fray. I don't have the capital to bribe.

No, I'm not trying to cause dissension among gun owners. I'm trying to get people to understand that it is up to each and every one of us, and if we don't have enough people on the front lines, we are going to lose this fight. I don't know what the requisite number is, but it's more than there are right now.

I need your help. All of you. I'm at the limits of my means, both financially and in regards to time. I am not independently wealthy, I cannot fly to DC and pester my reps there in person. I cannot pay for full page ads and radio time. I cannot buy a politician's "NO" vote. If I could do more, I would. But I'm just one working class man. This makes me insignificant. But millions of working class men & women fighting for the same cause are NOT insignificant.

Dean1818
February 23, 2013, 09:28 PM
Living in Texas I sometimes take it for granted what the other folks have to go through....

JohnBT
February 23, 2013, 09:35 PM
" But millions of working class men & women fighting for the same cause are NOT insignificant. "

That's the NRA.

larryh1108
February 23, 2013, 09:50 PM
No, I'm not trying to cause dissension among gun owners. I'm trying to get people to understand that it is up to each and every one of us, and if we don't have enough people on the front lines, we are going to lose this fight. I don't know what the requisite number is, but it's more than there are right now.

I'm not "picking" on the topic. Actually, it is very well worded. However, it is worded out of frustration and without empathy. Everyone supports the cause in different ways, just like a battlefield battle. Some are on the front lines, some bring in the ammo, others haul out the wounded, others sit in safety and plan strategies while others are scouting or watching the rear. My point is, some march and some donate money to the causes because they can't march. Some write snail mail, some email, some call and others attend local meetings. Everybody has their own way of contributing and saying one way is better than another is not fair or right. We all do what we can to help the cause. The only people I have no sympathy for are the ones who don't vote and they cry the loudest when the "wrong" guy wins.

Marches and protests, no matter the cause, are suspect at best. I've seen countless of them for different causes and the politicians don't give any weight to them and the news will cover it with the angle they support. A pro-gun rally can have 10-1 in favor of the pro-gun support in attendence and the news will show 4 anti-gun speeches or signs to 1 pro-gun speech or sign. The best example of these types of rallys is a recent rally in DC when the NRA came out and asked that we didn't show up in camo gear or tacticool outfits so we don't appear to be gun nuts and hurt our cause. I guess it's ok to protest but don't scare the others by dressing scary? Really? If you're old enough to remember the anti-Viet Nam protests and sit-ins then you're old enough to remember they didn't do a thing in the minds of the officials. They were a waste of time except for those who wanted a reason to party and socialize.

Billll
February 23, 2013, 09:53 PM
Getting a bit testy are we? Can't blame you too much.

While I was there there were about 800 present. Weather was pleasant, and the much reported 2 PM blizzard has been moved out 12 hours.

We had 2 legislators, and several inspiring speakers. Encouragement was offered even though the outcome is very much in doubt. The governor is having second thoughts about losing 1000 jobs plus tax revenue, and evidence is piling up that the laws in question were dropped on us from MAIG and are not locally produced. Also the Dems are dropping the gaffes this time.

We need to be questioning our Senators as to whom they serve: Us or Mikey Bloomberg.

Thanks to those of you who went to the town hall meetings. You probably did more good than we did at the capitol, after all the capitol is empty on a Saturday. The media was there but very low key. OTOH the OFA rally scheduled for yesterday doesn't seem to have attracted anyone at all so if we only get passing reference, we win.

Castigate the Dems for carrying Bloombergs laws. Ask them if they're getting Bloombergs money. Ask them if they'd rather live in New York. Keep the pressure on to the bitter end.

And quit your bickering. Don't make me stop this car.:D

MachIVshooter
February 23, 2013, 10:31 PM
While I was there there were about 800 present. Weather was pleasant, and the much reported 2 PM blizzard has been moved out 12 hours.

Umm.....the rally was officially 11-1, I was there 9:30-2. At no point during that time was there anywhere near 800 people. I wish there had been.

I left when a couple people from another group protesting the imprisonment of Bradley Manning started taunting the police on the corner. This crowd had intermixed with the resistance group, and I did not want to be associated with that kind of activity.

There were fewer at this rally than the one on the 8th.

Yes, the weather was pretty agreeable for February. Cool, but not unpleasant if you were dressed appropriately. I'm glad it wasn't slated for tomorrow, with 23* & snow forecasted.

Larry Ashcraft
February 23, 2013, 11:08 PM
Living in Texas I sometimes take it for granted what the other folks have to go through....
That's a mistake. Remember, before this latest push, Colorado's gun laws were less restrictive than Texas'.

That smug "thank gawd I live in Texas" attitude can lull you into a false sense of security. You better bet it can happen to you. It's happening here...

Spymaster
February 23, 2013, 11:17 PM
Umm.....the rally was officially 11-1, I was there 9:30-2. At no point during that time was there anywhere near 800 people. I wish there had been.

I left when a couple people from another group protesting the imprisonment of Bradley Manning started taunting the police on the corner. This crowd had intermixed with the resistance group, and I did not want to be associated with that kind of activity.

There were fewer at this rally than the one on the 8th.

Yes, the weather was pretty agreeable for February. Cool, but not unpleasant if you were dressed appropriately. I'm glad it wasn't slated for tomorrow, with 23* & snow forecasted.
As an interesting aside, Bradley Manning is a huge hero to the marxist democratic party base, absolutely huge. America has tumbled low indeed.

Trent
February 23, 2013, 11:25 PM
"I didn't know"
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=704098 :scrutiny:

Jeez, how in the heck did I miss that?

I'm on this board every day, pretty much all day, and I didn't see that thread until just now, when you pointed it out.

hso
February 23, 2013, 11:45 PM
how in the heck did I miss that?

Dunno.

Maybe Activism is boring to most folks.

Grassman
February 23, 2013, 11:54 PM
That's a mistake. Remember, before this latest push, Colorado's gun laws were less restrictive than Texas'.

That smug "thank gawd I live in Texas" attitude can lull you into a false sense of security. You better bet it can happen to you. It's happening here...
I really don't think so. There is a whole different mindset in the Texas legislature here, than is there.

Grassman
February 23, 2013, 11:56 PM
We will be fine.

DAP90
February 24, 2013, 12:17 AM
I wasn’t at the rally but I and a bunch of others were at a town hall meeting with State Senator Jeanne Nicholson. I didn’t count but it was crowded enough that even showing up early I wasn’t able to get into the room where they were holding it.

I know there were other town hall meetings in other towns as well today.

AlexanderA
February 24, 2013, 12:19 AM
This incident (the poor attendance at the Colorado state capitol rally) proves the axiom that it's better not to have a rally/demonstration at all than to have one that's poorly attended. A poorly attended rally proves your weakness, whereas no rally at all leaves the other side guessing. The corollary of this is that these events have to be meticulously planned; they can't be spur-of-the-moment or left to chance. (If it's any consolation, the antigunners are just as inept at this sort of thing.)

JRH6856
February 24, 2013, 12:27 AM
the antigunners are just as inept at this sort of thing.

Except Obama. He is an experienced community organizer. He knows that you get people to events like this the same way you get them to vote: Put them on a bus, drive them there and buy their lunch.

X-JaVeN-X
February 24, 2013, 12:31 AM
But we also can't assume just because everyone in the gun community wasn't at the rally, that those that weren't there were sluffin' off or lazy. There are many battles on different days. You don't see a Normandy Invasion vet telling a Iwo vet he was lazy and didn't care cause he wasn't in France on D-Day. Same here. While I'm sure there are many folks that will sit back, do nothing and then, when they lose some sort of firearm privilege, scream like a little girl. That happens all the time....part of human nature. But making attacks against folks with similar passions and community for reasons as foolish as this thread, does little to cement that community. It just divides us and makes us more vulnerable.



Again, the assumption is being made that just cause some folks weren't involved today, that they are or have been doing nothing. I spend twenty nights a year teaching gun safety to youths in the area. Am I doing nothing to promote responsible gun ownership and the shooting sports because I didn't stand along side a road somewhere ONE afternoon with a sign in my hands? Exactly what did I screw up and now hafta own? Do you criticize and get on your boy's case for not getting his chores done because he was in school all day? No....you give him a chance to get them done when he gets home. You do that cause you know what his schedule and other life activities are. You know none of this about other members here.....you just automatically assume they are doing nothing and you are doing more. You are dividing the ranks without any knowledge why.
This argument is being directed at the type of response that was given early in this thread. The OP's post specifically stated that obviously some people would not be able to attend for various reasons and there are of course good reasons for not going....The lash back in this thread was really to the "ho-hum" cop-out attitude that was shown. Sarcastically stating that "yeah how dare us have jobs families and lives", is a blatant slap in the face to those that made the effort to take time off, that also have "jobs families and lives", and go and back up what they so vocally talk about in the internet. Back you your talk with actions.

X-JaVeN-X
February 24, 2013, 12:39 AM
If you're feeling somehow offended at MachIVshooter... that's too bad. I don't hear him specifically blaming you. It's important to hold the broader shooting community accountable. There's a difference between placing blame and raising awareness.

If only 200 people showed up from the entire Denver area, that's appalling, and we should be trying to motivate and activate that community.
The people that are offended are the ones that know he struck a nerve by stating what he did and in turn feel responsible...however, when faced with accepting that responsibility, some choose to blame and deflect, instead of shouldering it and doing their part to take responsibility. People that believe in the second amendment need to start shouldering the responsibility with supporting that belief. "Faith without works (action) is dead."

I can only imagine the impact that could be had if everyone that BELIEVED in their 2a rights actually took ACTION on those beliefs. Such a small fraction actually do anything other than bicker and complain. Then they wonder why their rights just keep slipping away.

MachIVshooter
February 24, 2013, 12:40 AM
As an interesting aside, Bradley Manning is a huge hero to the marxist democratic party base, absolutely huge. America has tumbled low indeed.

Not to derail my own thread, but while he may be a vile criminal, he still deserves due process.

If he is found guilty of treason in a court of law, then he will own his sentence. As long as the federal government is denying him his 6th, 7th and 8th amendment rights, they are the traitors.

No, I am not an expert on the case. I just know that such abuses under the patriot act are intolerable. It could be any one of us, for any reason they can dream up. "Oh, you have 20 ARs and 100,000 rounds of ammunition? You're stocking up for an insurrection. Off to jail you go, no trial, no bail. Just bars, indefinitely."

mljdeckard
February 24, 2013, 12:44 AM
EyeryONE can't do everyTHING everyTIME. And just because one gun owner is convinced that their plan is the most effective, that doesn't automatically obligate everyone else to agree with them and do the same thing.

Trent
February 24, 2013, 02:23 AM
Dunno.

Maybe Activism is boring to most folks.

I'll make a point to start scanning it periodically. I can't believe I missed something like this. I guess I figured with IGOLD coming up here in IL, in a week and a half, there wouldn't be anything I'd need to keep an eye on. I spent most of Friday watching the Judicial committee hearing in Chicago and writing reps in IL about HB997 here.

Speaking of partisan. The group that did the LAST rally has a facebook page that I keep an eye on. They didn't mention anything about this on there. Are there TWO different groups doing these rally's????

Illinois State Rifle Association didn't mention anything at all about it either.

I think a problem bigger than people not showing up is the big groups not even ATTEMPTING to work together. It's almost like they're all afraid of working together.

(Side note: I've been spending most of my time on here this last week in the reloading forum trying to help answer questions. Been a little busy in there lately....)

goon
February 24, 2013, 02:43 AM
I also work pretty much every Saturday. And honestly, I had heard about plans for a pro-2A day, but didn't know it had gotten off the ground. Even if I did know for sure it would take me at least two flights to get to my capital. I think I would have to fly into Anchorage, then from there to Juneau. I think there may be a stop in Valdez too. I can't afford $500 in tickets to get there and $500 back. But I can afford $100 donated to the NRA-ILA, so that is what I gave.

And not to point fingers, because I know it's not fair to blame all CO residents, my state isn't pushing gun control legislation. In fact, legislation has been introduced in my state to oppose Federal efforts to restrict the Second Amendment.

Gaiudo
February 24, 2013, 04:09 AM
Quote:
Exactly, but that certainly isn't the way to motivate this community.


It motivated me.

blarby
February 24, 2013, 04:58 AM
Maybe Activism is boring to most folks.

I wouldn't say boring, but the fanaticism can be a little off-putting.

Like........Oh, I dunno..........

baz
February 24, 2013, 08:05 AM
The volume of traffic in the Activism forum is low enough that one can check it daily, or even every other day, and keep on top of what is posted there.

That said, I think a couple of things could be done to improve it. First, I'm confused by the sub-forum "Activism Discussion and Planning." How is that any different than what goes on in the main forum. That comes up in a way when I go to the main forum that I frequently miss it, so I hope I'm not missing anything important in it. Is it really needed?

Second, it would be good for the forum to have a policy requesting posters to mention the State their activity or posting concerns. This is often in the title of the thread, but not always. In the case of activities like yesterday's, something like "Multi-State" would let readers know it is something occurring in every state.

The Activism forum is probably a lot more pertinent right now for regular visits than in the past.

bri
February 24, 2013, 08:31 AM
...Maybe Activism is boring to most folks.

Unfortunately, it also seems some people prefer to rant and rave rather than seek out productive actions to prevent the very thing they're worked up about.

floorit76
February 24, 2013, 09:17 AM
This happens to me every year. We spend a lot of time pushing for Igold (IL gun owners lobby day) posting flyers, calling radio stations, posting on sites like this. And every year, people ask me a week after, "Why didn't I know", or "why waste your time". It's infuriating to listen to folks complain about something, then sit out the big battles. I've tried calling people out but it doesn't work. Hell, I have a friend that will take time off to hunt anything, but as yet can't be bothered to take time off to defend his right to hunt. Keep fighting the good fight, can't do much else.

shafter
February 24, 2013, 09:28 AM
Yeah how dare us have jobs families and lives.


The Founding Fathers had all of those and yet when freedom was threatened they put it all on the line.

This is why I'm so pessemistic about the future of our gun rights (and all the rest of our rights). So few these days are willing to risk anything at all.

On the other hand, who pays attention to large gatherings of protestors anyway? Legislators sure don't. They're too busy handing out money to people who don't work in order to buy their votes. That was the battle we should have fought but we didn't. Face it, we're the minority now.

Robert
February 24, 2013, 09:35 AM
MachIV I understand your frustration but this is going around in circles so I am going to close it.

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