Remove bluing to parkerize?


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bainter1212
February 23, 2013, 08:44 PM
Hi guys,
I've got a project gun I'm working on and I want to do a home parkerizing job on it. I've got a pretty good idea on how the process goes. My question is this:

Do I HAVE to remove bluing before I park the gun?? I don't need it to be perfect, it's not a crazy expensive gun or anything like that. I have used John Norrels's Moly Resin to refinish other firearms, which requires meticulous metal prep. I want to try parkerizing this time around, and not having to remove the bluing first would make the job a whole lot easier. I understand the critical need to clean and degrease the metal, however I don't see how the existing bluing will interfere with the parkerizing process. Any thoughts????

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Mosin Bubba
February 23, 2013, 09:47 PM
I've never tried parkerizing and can't answer that question, but I do know that removing blueing is not a problem. Pick up a bottle of Birchwood Casey Blue and Rust Remover at your local gun shop or sporting goods store, and then just follow the directions on the bottle. It costs five bucks, takes no more than fifteen minutes, and works great.

bainter1212
February 23, 2013, 10:17 PM
I was pondering using a chemical as well. Naval Jelly removes bluing real quick. I guess what I am really trying to avoid, is blasting the metal with alox to make the finish perfectly even. I have a small handheld blaster and a small household compressor, and it was BY FAR the lengthiest part of the refinish process the last time I did one.
I talked to a guy who advertised his parkerizing services locally on the Calguns forum. He quoted me $60 per hour. When I called to ask about details ($60 per hour?? What does that mean?? 3 hours of metal prep??) I asked him if I did the prep, would that save him time and me money? He replied that the ONLY prep he did was a thourough clean and degrease.

25cschaefer
February 23, 2013, 10:56 PM
Blue toilet bowl cleaner, AKA muriatic acid, takes blue off like it was designed to do it.

Drail
February 23, 2013, 11:24 PM
I believe most refinishers will grit or bead blast the metal to remove everything and provide a rough surface for the Park to adhere to. Call around to any auto machine shops in your area, most of them will blast parts pretty cheap for you. Do not use Naval Jelly, it does not "remove" rust, it converts it into a phosphate coating.

carbine85
February 24, 2013, 10:27 AM
I bead blast before parkerizing. All of the products out there say you should for proper adhesion. The bake on finishes also require bead blasting.
There are a few products out there to remove bluing and work well.
I use a cheap portable bead blaster from Harbor Freight powered by my air compressor. I rigged up a blasting cabinet out of a large plastic storage bin and clear plastic cover. It gets pretty dusty so I wear respirator full cover safety glasses

bainter1212
February 24, 2013, 11:06 AM
I was led to believe that alox works way better than beads for blasting metal for adhesion. That being said, I don't think parkerizing "adheres" to anything. It's a chemical reaction with the metal itself, yes? The protective layer is actual the top layer of the metal itself......just like blueing, it doesn't matter if the surface is smooth or rough, that only affects the look and the texture of the finish, not the chemical reaction.....
Thanks for your responses, guys. Looks like I may have to experiment with this myself. Couldn't find the answer with a google search either. Folks would recommend blasting and removal of blueing, but nobody said WHY........

Sav .250
February 24, 2013, 11:28 AM
I assume you have informaton on what your trying to do. No where in there it talks about removing the bluing? Good gun or a bubba, I`d sure "read-up" on any project I intended to start. Facts are 100% opinions are good but not always on target. J s/n.

rbernie
February 24, 2013, 11:45 AM
That being said, I don't think parkerizing "adheres" to anything. It's a chemical reaction with the metal itself, yes? The protective layer is actual the top layer of the metal itself......just like blueing, it doesn't matter if the surface is smooth or rough, that only affects the look and the texture of the finish, not the chemical reaction.....Parkerizing's endurance, as I understand it, relies heavily upon having an oil film (or some other moisture barrier) on the surface. The rough surface used for parkerizing is reportedly to help retain that oil.

Mac's
February 24, 2013, 01:23 PM
Parkerizing by itself has no durabilty. It get's it's durabilty due to it's abilty to soak up oil. If you looked at it under a microscope, it would look like a sponge. The oil get's into the pockets. The result is a surface that's durable like an oily surface but doesn't feel oily. That's also why it's great under molly resin. The resin get's into the surface and bonds better. Parkerizing is not a surface coating. It's a surface conversion, meaning the chemical reaction actually converts a very thin layer of the surface of the metal.

Parkerizing is not hard to do but does involve a few important steps. Mixing, heating, aging, etc. are all required to make it work. Not aging it will result in a beautiful looking finish.....that will wipe off with a feather. Be carefull with it. Remember, not only is it an acid but it's a hot acid. Due to it's dangers, it's not something you want to do on the kitchen stove while the kids and dogs are running around, etc.

Although it's not difficult to do, it does involve some expense in setting it up, safety precautions, preparations, etc. Because of that, it's worth doing right. Yes, you do need to abrasive blast the surface prior to Parkerizing. That's especially so since you said something about applying resin on it. Bead blasting is not the best choice but it's lot's better than nothing. Check around with auto shops, machine shops, etc.

Get everything ready prior to starting. Abrasive blasted metal will flash rust fast so be ready to work right after it's blasted. Parkerized metal that's being molly coated will not be submerged in oil. It has to be washed in clean water and then very quickly dried. Yes, Parkerized metal that has not been oiled will rust. Don't plan on oiling it this week and then cleaning it next week so you can resin coat it. It's impossible to get all of the oil out and that will ruin your nice job. Have fun! Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' Irons
http://www.shootiniron.com

bainter1212
February 24, 2013, 06:15 PM
Thanks for the info Mac. I have indeed read up on parkerizing. I have had parkerized guns for years. I coat them with white lithium grease instead of oil, I had a bad experience once. My parked Springer 1911 got some rust spots on it. I regularly carry it while camping and fishing, and at night the dry leather of my holster sucked the oil right off the gun, and I had a few rust spots :eek: I use grease instead of oil now and I always oil up my leather holsters real good.

My plan is to use 3 stainless "mud" pans from OSH and silver braze them end to end to create a tank (I braze for a living). I will use a propane camp stove to heat the mixture. I understand about using steel wool to "age" the mixture, and I will also be wearing a respirator and all possible chemical safety gear. Most likely I will buy the chemicals in some sort of kit that comes with real easy to follow instructions. I know there are many out there, I believe AGI sells one that is affordable and has good instructions.
I don't quite know yet whether I will follow up the parkerizing with the Moly Resin......I have the "foliage green" and "mil-spec brown" bottles sitting in my fridge right now. It airbrushes on easy, the tricky part will be keeping the metal hot and dry after the park job, without it rusting before I can spray on the moly resin. Anyway, looks like I've got to borrow a good compressor, to make blasting go a bit easier this time around.....thanks guys.

N.Schafer
February 25, 2013, 07:59 PM
Parkerizing changes the surface metal's chemical makeup. Bluing also changes the surface metal's chemical makeup. Remove it. For parkerizing to work properly, bare rough steel is best.

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