The Statue of Liberty is kaput


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lykoris
February 24, 2013, 06:20 AM
The line from Saving Private Ryan seemed apt for this thread. I have read a lot over the past few months on THR and given my European perspective I just wanted to add something to the debate.

You have to do everything possible to prevent the further infringement on the iconic American right that is the right to keep and bear arms.


Firearms legislation is all about one word and that word is Control with a capital C. It removes the individual's natural right to be able to defend themselves and their families. The goal to make you completely and utterly 100% reliant upon the government. There is no question that RKBA is a true litmus test of trust between those who govern and those who elect them to office.

We are restricted here in numerous ways but broadly it is done by each generation as the technocrats in the EU think long term. Each successive generation is conditioned to accept more restrictions/more costs/more rules of law until you go from a completely free society to complete reliance upon government for anything related to firearms. They think long term.

As a European I have zero rights to use a firearm for defense. I can only use it for hunting or sporting purposes, it was not always like this within this country. The Czech Republic has carry laws but I have no doubt over the decade(s) to come they will be completely eradicated to align with broader EU standards. There is no space for the natural right of self-defense of the individual within the EU collective. Every state must be molded to comply with the desires of non-elected technocrats in Brussels. They think long term....it is all for the collective good.

I cannot even acquire an air rifle/pistol without government approval - everything is licensed/registered/approved. It did not begin that way but once they started registration it was only a question of time. Eventually registration and consequently licensing/approval became mandatory for everything. They think long term.

Financial costs.
I know people who have stopped shooting because the cost of compliance was simply too high both financially and also from all the paperwork and approvals one requires just to target shoot as a pastime.


Before I pay a single cent on acquiring a new firearm here I am looking at USD 116,11....

EUR 20
My European license must be updated.

EUR 50
This is the going rate for updating my national license and having firearms added to it.

EUR 18
I have to go to a photographer and get photos taken "professionally"...i.e. photos placed within the stationary of the photographer. My wife has all the gear to take the same photos, 5k worth of photography equipment which can get the same result....but they are not accepted.

I then have mandatory club membership on an annual basis along with renewing both licenses, both are up for renewal next year. The rising cost of compliance prohibits new shooters to join the sport and inevitably each generation has less and less knowledge/familiarity with firearms. Overall, less people have firearms. They think long term.

Also, there is no legal definition set as to the number of firearms one can own in this country but it is restricted by the head of the firearms department here to a given number. Try and imagine having the number of firearms you own restricted by the whims of a government official. Nobody can afford to take the government to court to point this out, my wife is a lawyer and she laughed at the idea.

In most European countries they banned certain types of firearms or grandfathered them. It is the same thing with a timestamp on the latter. Each successive generation has less until they wake up one day looking like the U.K. It took them less than 100 years to do it. They think long term.

The RKBA underpins liberty and so you all need to do everything possible to try and preserve your right, the RKBA for your childrens' children. You need to start thinking long term too.

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DocCasualty
February 24, 2013, 06:31 AM
I personally would like to thank you for your candid thoughts on RKBA. I also am sorry what has happened to you and many others around the world in regards to your ability to possess firearms and shoot. Your post give me pause to reflect that my thoughts about our 2nd Amendment rights in the US are crystal clear and we need to maintain them as our Constitutional right and not surrender them to some expensive subjective privilege.

Blackstone
February 24, 2013, 08:38 AM
Whatever happened to my great country, where its Olympic shooters have to go abroad to train. Every time I go to switzerland to shoot, I can't help but feel I'm an exile, seeking asylum in another country.

DSling
February 24, 2013, 09:34 AM
I was born in the 80's and if you looked at me you wouldn't think I love guns as much as I do. My son is already performing the gun safety rules at 2 (keep your finger strait and off the trigger until you are ready to fire) because he watches me. My anger boils to think of the changes that have happened between my childhood and now. I have no problem with freedom of speech but they are taking away my rights too. Maybe I want my children to say the pledge of allegiance. Maybe I want them to know the star spangled banner. Maybe I want them to believe that if everybody has a ccw or oc there will be less gun violence. There is a huge fear of the unknown that looms on the horizon. It is up to us to figure out where we will end up.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

No4Mk1*
February 24, 2013, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the post. You are correct that ultimately this is an issue of government control vs individual freedom. New York Democrats have done a great job demonstrating this. Guns/ magazines / large sodas...

Curator
February 24, 2013, 10:10 AM
"Those who think they can trade a little liberty for more security end up with neither": Ben Franklin. Gun control in this Country has mostly been a one-way street. The repeal of the Clinton AWB was an anomaly. You can bet the new one will not have a "sunset" provision. Perhaps the average American will wake up with all the talk about new restrictions, taxes, and regulations and begin to elect representatives who uphold the Constitution instead of Party directives.

vito
February 24, 2013, 10:39 AM
I left NY in the mid '60's for military duty and never returned (to live), and in all these years I still do not understand the mentality of my relatives and apparently most of the people who live in and around NYC regarding guns. They are not stupid and they understand that the police cannot respond quickly enough to protect them from harm. But they see guns as so evil, so dangerous, that they are willing to cede to the criminals the ability to be alone in having a firearm. I have a nephew who talks about keeping a baseball bat at the ready in case of a break-in to his home. When I ask him how confident he is that armed with the bat he will be successful in keeping his wife and two children safe against a possibly armed burglar he admits that he is less than fully confident. But he will not buy a firearm. In recent years however, I am getting more confident that we will NOT go the way of Europe and Australia in restricting guns. If nothing else, the election and re-election of Obama has spurred many to buy a gun for the first time as well as convincing some hunters and others who felt little interest in 2A issues that they had better get interested or their gun ownership might be threatened. The proliferation of concealed carry (but not yet in the corruption that I live in called Illinois) means that it is less and less likely that draconian gun control can become the law of the land.

Neo-Luddite
February 24, 2013, 10:56 AM
Great post~thanks for the perspective and clarity on the issue.

jamesbeat
February 24, 2013, 11:08 AM
Where do you live?
I'm English, but I moved to the States just over three years ago.
Even though I am in NY, it's a night and day difference, though they seem to be trying to change that.
If only those politicians would try living in the UK for a year or two, they might not be so inclined to take away our rights.

I hear you on the expense thing.
I don't have a pistol license simply because I can't afford to get one right now.
I also don't know enough people who aren't family members to give me the required references.
It's a de facto ban if ever there was one. If I lived in almost any other state, I would be able to walk into a store and buy a handgun, but it's impossible for me to get one at the moment.
At least I can still buy long guns without any licensing requirements (except semiautos), so at least for now it's much better than Britain.

RiverPerson
February 24, 2013, 11:16 AM
lykoris, I like how you emphasized that people opposed to guns are thinking long term. It is important for those of us in the U.S. to just not sigh in relief if we beat the current round of anti-gun hysteria. We must remain vigilant year after year.

We have to think long term. Not just two years or four years from now, but 20, 30, 40, and 50 years down the road. Even longer.

We have instill a passion for firearms in people that normally would not be exposed to them and help them gain an understanding of the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment and why privately held firearms are so important.

If not, the number of people championing gun rights will gradually get smaller and smaller over the coming decades, and eventually there will be little challenge to strict gun regulation and outright bans.

I've said it in another post here, but if people 100 years from now never have the opportunity to keep and bear arms, they will not even realize what was lost.

jj1962hemi
February 24, 2013, 11:21 AM
A good thing about the current political climate is the introduction of new people to gun ownership. I think we should all introduce as many people as possible, get CC permits if your states allow it, etc. I like the fact that even flaming gun banners are beginning to see that it will be impossible to "take them all" from U.S. citizens. That said, the fight goes on. The statistics are on our side. The U.S. has never had as many guns, guns with as much potency, or as many people claiming (via permits, whether they carry or not) to carry guns.....yet crime keeps dropping.

The remaining arguement, a scary one to me because some people buy it (like the "Patriot" Act), is that "If it saves one life, it's worth it." We have to dig in and combat that thinking.

Trent
February 24, 2013, 12:43 PM
I've been introducing new shooters to firearms as often as possible. Even going so far to get my NRA instructor's licensing this year so I can teach in an "official" capacity.

It's important we are all as proactive as possible about passing on firearms tradition.

Of the children in my son's high school, he's (was) the only one with any firearms training or experience. I've been changing that, slowly and carefully, by taking his friends shooting with us (with parent permission, obviously).

Just last weekend I took time to train a new person with zero firearms experience - a lady in her mid 30's (friend's sister). We spent about 5 hours going over safety and handgun operation, then hit the range. By the end of the day she was holding 3" groups at 15 yards, and asking "when are we doing this again!!!!"

Claude Clay
February 24, 2013, 12:56 PM
as a life long shooter and NRA instructor ( handgun, rifle, BP, re-loading) i have been telling any who hear me that the time is now for those who desire freedom to take our country back--via the political process.
the longer we wait to see whats next...the harder it will be to work the system in a peaceable manner.

-----------
how is it that the media can discriminate our ads?

Dean1818
February 24, 2013, 01:53 PM
I've been introducing new shooters to firearms as often as possible. Even going so far to get my NRA instructor's licensing this year so I can teach in an "official" capacity.

It's important we are all as proactive as possible about passing on firearms tradition.

Of the children in my son's high school, he's (was) the only one with any firearms training or experience. I've been changing that, slowly and carefully, by taking his friends shooting with us (with parent permission, obviously).

Just last weekend I took time to train a new person with zero firearms experience - a lady in her mid 30's (friend's sister). We spent about 5 hours going over safety and handgun operation, then hit the range. By the end of the day she was holding 3" groups at 15 yards, and asking "when are we doing this again!!!!"
You have the right approach!

Every shooter needs to get 3 non shooters to the range this year......

OptimusPrime
February 24, 2013, 02:02 PM
Dean, that is a great goal for all of us. We all do what we can, but let's put a real number to it. All of us; pledge to take 3 newbies out shooting this year. I'm up to 1 so far in 2013.

JFrame
February 24, 2013, 02:27 PM
To the OP: I would like to echo the sentiments of the others and thank you for posting that profound and beautifully articulated message. http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/artists/fool/appl.gif


.

lykoris
February 25, 2013, 09:20 AM
I don't know how to quote somebody so will try answer this way.

jamesbeat

I live in Luxembourg which believe it or not has some of the most favourable firearms legislation within the EU.

To illustrate a point about conditioning people my brother and I both were introduced to firearms by our grandfather on his farm in Ireland. We would target shoot with him during our summer holidays away from school. My brother after college went to live and work in London (he has been there 20 years) and I came here.

When he came over to visit he could not believe the firearms I had and was trully shocked first and foremost (and then excited to try them out). I brought him to the range and at the end of the day he said "I can see the appeal and it was a fun way to spend an afternoon". He also said he does not believe anybody should own what I own and only the police/government should have firearms.

This coming from a guy that had his apartment ransacked by burglars and all his possessions taken in London and has since worried about what he would have done had his wife/son been home. :confused:

We don't own the press and they push an agenda here in Europe. Unfortunately they condition people to think in a completely irrational manner when it comes to firearms and their usefulness in protecting one's family from home invasion.

TNBilly
February 25, 2013, 11:06 AM
lykoris,

I don't know which was first Australia or in EU but the methods used and outcome seems to be the same. By the time a generation passes they will have been completely brainwashed into the government positions!

GrOuNd_ZeRo
February 27, 2013, 12:36 PM
I immigrated from gun grabbing Europe, the Netherlands to be exact.

Not much on bans on types of firearms (except full auto) but they have draconian storage and transportation laws and you need to be a member of a shooting club for 2 years before you are considdered for the priviledge of owning a firearm that requires to be locked up in a wall mounted safe at all times seperate from the ammunition and it's highly impractical to use it in self defense and even then they would have to PROOF you were in danger of life and limb.

OH and not to forget that I had to get police premission to buy an air rifle!

Thankfully I met my wife in the US and I was quickly introduced into the "gun culture", have been a gun owner since 2006 and have a respectable collection now.

And I have so much love for my newly adopted country that I enlisted in the Army 6 years ago and am still serving with pride.

God bless America, Long Live the Republic!

JFrame
February 27, 2013, 12:51 PM
I immigrated from gun grabbing Europe, the Netherlands to be exact.

Not much on bans on types of firearms (except full auto) but they have draconian storage and transportation laws and you need to be a member of a shooting club for 2 years before you are considdered for the priviledge of owning a firearm that requires to be locked up in a wall mounted safe at all times seperate from the ammunition and it's highly impractical to use it in self defense and even then they would have to PROOF you were in danger of life and limb.

OH and not to forget that I had to get police premission to buy an air rifle!

Thankfully I met my wife in the US and I was quickly introduced into the "gun culture", have been a gun owner since 2006 and have a respectable collection now.

And I have so much love for my newly adopted country that I enlisted in the Army 6 years ago and am still serving with pride.

God bless America, Long Live the Republic!


Thank you for your service -- and a belated welcome! http://www.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/drinks.gif


.

Ryanxia
February 27, 2013, 12:58 PM
Well said. We should all remember where this road leads.

CONTINUE TO CONTACT YOUR REPS!

Ragnar Danneskjold
February 27, 2013, 01:01 PM
That's disconcerting.

CoRoMo
February 27, 2013, 01:27 PM
Last week I urged more than a dozen of my fellow Coloradoan gun owners to get involved: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8762318#post8762318

I'm performing a sort of survey amongst them to see how many actually got off their butt. So far none have.

The first person that I contacted told me that he didn't want to email an elected official because he "didn't want them to send him any response back". This is one of the big problems with our nation; utter laziness. He basically is saying that he'd rather the government take away his rights than to see an email from a member of the legislature in his inbox.

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Here's another major problem with our crowd, a family member of mine flat-out refuses to give me some assistance with the fight here in Colorado: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=704077 He'd rather sit on his idealism and watch the nation fall than to get involved and make a difference.

GrOuNd_ZeRo
February 27, 2013, 02:18 PM
Gun control in the Netherlands made me fear for my life for being out and about in bad areas.

When I lived in my brother's neighborhood I heard gunshots every night.

Night clubs got shot up all the time...

Gun Control was established in the Netherlands to prevent Dutch citizens from taking down a tyranical government!

I wish I could wake up my country of birth but they are all brainwashed into irrational fear for firearms.

lykoris
February 27, 2013, 03:47 PM
The U.K. first started gun control in 1919/1920 after the 1917 Russian revolution because the ruling class feared the common man who had firearms.

The ruling class within Europe have always feared an uprising against the economic and political status quo.

The only reason the Czech Republic has such freedom when it comes to firearms is they came out from under the jackboot of the U.S.S.R. But the E.U. has been busy pushing stricter legislation ever since.

It is all about control.

Deer_Freak
February 27, 2013, 04:13 PM
I am seeing our rights eroding every day. When I was a kid we could ride our bicycles all day long, end up 10 miles away from home and had nothing to fear. We rode horses all through the woods without running into people who take defense of their property way to seriously. We said the pledge of allegiance every morning and the flag really means something to me. We said the lords prayer before any sporting event we participated in. Young men need the lords guidance to play in a sporting manner and in the event the unthinkable should happen to one of us we were at peace with the lord.

I hope each and every one of us take lykoris' words to heart, he is speaking the truth. I pray that we realize that when anyone's rights are violated the same thing can happen to us. The second amendment is what binds us together but when other amendments are violated we need to be just as defensive.

rdhood
February 27, 2013, 04:54 PM
The repeal of the Clinton AWB was an anomaly.

The AWB was not repealed. It had a sunset clause, and it expired. There is a big difference.

JTHunter
February 27, 2013, 05:12 PM
A nice write-up Lykoris.
It's always good to hear other peoples perspectives, especially those who either never had or have already lost a basic human right - the right to preserve your own life.

Bohemus
March 1, 2013, 06:19 AM
Yeah, EU is pushing for new legislation. Guns will be newly devided into 2 groups - forbidden and for permission. :-/

BigBore44
March 1, 2013, 07:03 AM
ONLY gun owners have the POWER to PROTECT and PRESERVE our FREEDOM.

Ms_Dragon
March 1, 2013, 07:27 AM
Thank you Lykoris.

I to adore my country.
In a lot of ways we are saner, calmer and have a better economy than the rest of the world.
On the surface we look like happy, wholesome "hale and well met" mates.
A hard working and hard playing culture based on "mateship" and the fair go.
That would belie the ugly underbelly that our culture has taken on since gun control was implemented.

I feel myself drawn to the States but her problems seem to outstrip our own and seem to be getting worse by the day.

Perhaps I would be best off moving to New Zealand.
They allow semi-automatic weapons and have a reassuring "at arms distance" approach to the States and their Asia-Pacific machinations.

Maybe New Zealand offers a safe haven and a buffer for the madness that is about to crash down upon the western world?

joeschmoe
March 1, 2013, 07:45 AM
We don't bow to monarchs or our government. We grant our government limited powers. In Europe the government "allows" the people some limited "privileges".

Maybe the Europeans need to take back their countries and stop accepting crumbs of bread from their governments.

DSling
March 11, 2013, 12:13 AM
We don't bow to monarchs or our government. We grant our government limited powers. In Europe the government "allows" the people some limited "privileges".

Maybe the Europeans need to take back their countries and stop accepting crumbs of bread from their governments.

We are becoming more like them. The lazy people that do not want to work are taking the crumbs and letting them take more and more away from us.

Justifying my means with their ends.

BullfrogKen
March 11, 2013, 12:24 AM
I'm reassured when I see immigrants come here and exercise their newly-earned freedoms.


Many times it is an immigrant citizen who, with a tongue still from the Old Country, can enuncite better than the natural-born his liberties and freedoms in the New.

CZguy
March 14, 2013, 04:10 AM
Many times it is an immigrant citizen who, with a tongue still from the Old Country, can enuncite better than the natural-born his liberties and freedoms in the New.

It's sad, but often true.

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