Ever hear of a 7mm 12gauge Over Under Combination??


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ZDriver96
February 24, 2013, 09:12 AM
Came across a gun that has a 12 gauge barrel on top with a 7mm rifle underneath. It has 2 separate triggers for each. It has flip up sites on it for the 7mm. I know very little about over and unders in general and have never seen one with a rifle shotgun combination. Can anyone tell me about these types of guns and how much they are worth?

Edit***
Ok found out its a CZ584 Model 4
UHERSKYBROD
A2358

Thanks

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Hardtarget
February 24, 2013, 09:25 AM
Compared to the gun described...mine is a mouse gun. I have a savage, mod 24, .22/410. I've carried it for small game for fifty years.

The gun you saw is probably much more expensive. Is it European made? With more info I'm sure someone can get you close to the real value. Can you post a picture? That will help.

Mark

natman
February 24, 2013, 09:40 AM
Pictures would help, as would the manufacturer. Valmet and Brno used to make combo guns in centerfire chamberings. The 7mm is possibly 7x57 or 7x57R, which is the rimmed version.

ZDriver96
February 24, 2013, 11:08 AM
Ill try and get those pictures up here today. My friends father purchased a couple dozen guns from an estate sale. He basically just grabbed the whole lot of guns that were with the estate sale. I recognized some of the guns as being quality budget and or well taken care of. I did not recognize any higher priced rifles but none were cheap models.
For instance he had a savage bolt action 30-06 fluted with brake barrel and a Leupold scope (not sure of model type but a minimum of a 200 dollar scope). He also had a CZ bolt action 22LR with bull barrel.

So quality rifles... just have no idea on this 7mm 12ga over under.

Sav .250
February 24, 2013, 11:21 AM
Most, if not all over-unders I`ve ever seen had the rifle barrel on top.
To bad you don`t know the maker.

SDC
February 24, 2013, 12:13 PM
The Russians and Czechs havemade several o/u combination guns that would fit this description, but we'd need to see some pictures (especially of the markings) to know exactly what you've got.

ThorinNNY
February 24, 2013, 12:29 PM
Sounds like a European hunters gun to me.Supposedly many European countries allowed a person to possess only 1 one gun. If true, I guess having that o/u rifle/shotgun set up or a Dreilling 2 shotgun barrels with a lower rifled barrel was about as good as a hunter could do.

Skoghund
February 24, 2013, 12:29 PM
Here's my Merkel 211E from1976. 12 over 7x57R

oneounceload
February 24, 2013, 12:34 PM
If it is a well made one, odds are it is German or Austrian.

Here is an entire section of them for sale, see if yours is in there:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Drilling-Combination-Guns.cfm?cat_id=290

Gordon
February 24, 2013, 12:35 PM
That Merkel pictured is worth $3000+ US, cash right now.:what:

ZDriver96
February 24, 2013, 12:57 PM
Those are some fine looking firearms fellas.. Always thought over and unders were neat. Here are the pictures I have. Sorry they are kinda blurry. ...Ok really blurry

browningguy
February 24, 2013, 02:25 PM
Yes, the Germans made them in all manner of caliber and gauge combinations.

ZDriver96
February 24, 2013, 02:36 PM
Ok found out its a CZ584 Model 4
UHERSKYBROD
A2358

I still am unable to find out much information on this gun. But I believe it was an $850 gun a couple years ago. I dont know how the current political environment has changed the price of these.. From what I've been able to gather is that this gun is well liked and reliable. But I could have guessed that being its a CZ.

Anyone have experience or knowledge of this firearm?

cal30_sniper
February 24, 2013, 02:52 PM
Here's my Merkel 211E from1976. 12 over 7x57R

That is absolutely gorgeous. What a work of art.

natman
February 24, 2013, 03:56 PM
Some of the CZ 584s were chambered in 7x65R. That's would be a bit of a project to find ammo for, although Prvi Partizan and Sellier & Belloit (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/244766/sellier-and-bellot-ammunition-7x65mm-rimmed-173-grain-soft-point-cutting-edge-box-of-20) do offer it.

oneounceload
February 24, 2013, 05:22 PM
It should say on the barrel which 7mm it is

SHR970
February 24, 2013, 05:50 PM
You'll find some info at the link

Link (http://killer.iweb.pl/Sprzet/Wiatrowki/Producenci,katalogi,zdjecia/CZ/catalog.pdf)

There is an easy way to figure out if it is 7 x 57R or 7x54R without a chamber cast. All you need is a spent 7.62X54R with the neck cut off. If it drops all of the way in you have a 7X54R. If about 1/4" or more is sticking out, you have a x57R. Th x57 is ~.473 at the base...the x54 is about .489. Due to the taper and the different base diameters, the x54 will stop short in the x57 chamber.

ZDriver96
February 26, 2013, 07:41 AM
appreciate it fellas

Mp7
February 26, 2013, 08:13 AM
"maybe because some european nations only let u have one gun"

....hahaha. No.
Just because we like beautiful guns, like to carry light,
and since we have a shooter qualification ... most people
don't feel like a 2nd shot will be needed :evil:


i personally would not shoot a deer with an AR. Unless its TEOTWAWKI
and it`s the only rifle available. So... a Stutzen, or a combo gun/drilling
is the way to go. Just IMHO.

Nice find.

oneounceload
February 26, 2013, 09:29 AM
SOME nations DO restrict the number of guns, but from what my friends tell me who live there, the drillings and similar are popular because you might run into a variety of game while on a hunt - from hares to stag or boar and then some pheasant. Having one gun that "does it all"as US pump guns like to say is more apropos with a drilling or vierling

Two Old Dogs
February 26, 2013, 01:14 PM
The CZ Model 584 is avalable in 12 gauge over 7x57mm, .222 Rem. or .308 Win. Value would range from $700.00 to $1000.00 depending on condition.

oneounceload
February 26, 2013, 03:51 PM
Here's the muzzle of a "do-it-all"gun

http://images.gunsinternational.com/listings/100312243-1-L.JPG

That's a SxS 16 gauge with 22 hornet and a 8x57 Mauser rifle barrels. Weight is 8#, including the scope.

http://images.gunsinternational.com/listings/100312243-7-L.JPG

gp911
February 26, 2013, 04:25 PM
1oz, I'm in love with that drilling.

oneounceload
February 26, 2013, 05:23 PM
That, my good man, is called a Vierling because it has 4 barrels....... ;)

Gunsinternational.com has an entire section of these for sale
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Drilling-Combination-Guns.cfm?cat_id=290

HoosierQ
February 26, 2013, 05:53 PM
That, my good man, is called a Vierling because it has 4 barrels....... ;)

Gunsinternational.com has an entire section of these for sale
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Drilling-Combination-Guns.cfm?cat_id=290
As in ein, zwei, drei, vier...1, 2, 3, 4!

Zoogster
February 26, 2013, 06:47 PM
That pictured vierling is really nice looking.


The problem with such guns in America is America is a market of getting the most bang for your buck with some variation in quality people will pay a little more for in general.
A high quality drilling or vierling is nice but they require a lot more work than a single barreled firearm to produce.
Regulating 4 barrels to a similar point so one only needs to adjust primarily for elevation and the difference the wind effects different calibers is what sets a quality one apart.
One can look great and shoot horribly, so you cannot tell too much from pictures. How well the multiple barrels are regulated makes all the difference in real world performance.

A budget version that had a barrel or two shooting a few inches to the right, one a few inches to the left, one low, and one high, and a single sight to deal with them all, would be rather annoying in the field.
Especially if the targets are small things like rabbits and birds where small differences make a big difference in results.
Shotgun barrels can get away with a little, but start adding multiple rifle barrels and precise barrel regulation becomes really important.
Mass producing and regulating multiple barrels to work together is a lot more difficult than production of a single barreled firearm.
The firearm and sights can be set up to work around the requirements of the barrel on a single barreled firearm.
With multiple barrels the barrels must be regulated precisely to have a high quality hunting arm.
That adds man hours that is going to increase the cost of production, or be a big expense to have a quality gunsmith do after the fact, and it is no longer going to fit into the majority of the American market of getting the most bang for your buck.
Such things do better in Europe.

gp911
February 27, 2013, 11:11 AM
Great, now I want a vierling AND a drilling to go with my Savage 24 in .22WMR/.410. *sigh*

SDC
February 27, 2013, 01:27 PM
The Russians have made an even MORE bizarre series of combination guns in the past, and they're available if you have the cash. They had an ordinary-styled drilling (the MTs30-20) with 2 shot barrels over a 5-round 22 LR rifle built into the forearm, and TsKIB SOO is now making three oddballs that combine multiple action types into one. The MTs27 has a bolt-action single shot rifle over a semi-auto box magazine-fed shotgun, the MTs28 has a 22 LR semi-auto rifle over a semi-auto shotgun, and the MTs29 has a bolt-action single-shot shotgun over a semi-auto 22 LR rifle.

http://www.tulatskib.ru/ohota_pdf/27-28-29.pdf

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