New US made Tavor: First Shots


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sturmgewehr
February 24, 2013, 10:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEY1XdQf_JA

The new US made IWI Tavor is here. This is one of the first production guns out on the market. Previously we've seen video of Israeli made guns, but this is the new US made gun which will be available in a couple of weeks.

It's an impressive rifle. If you don't like bullpups, this one might sway you towards liking them. If you do like bullpups, this may become your favorite.

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C-grunt
February 24, 2013, 11:08 PM
Awesome.

My only worry is the open hand/trigger guard. Seems like it might be pretty easy to get something caught in there and have an AD.

Gordon
February 24, 2013, 11:14 PM
Nice short review ! I would be interested at maybe $1500, at Noveske prices however a 9 pound trigger with the nasty lick reset doesn't sound like what I could make a rested head shot up to 200 yards with like I can with a good AR carbine. The modular trigger and neato field strip is certainly a plus. Please put a 4x ACOG on it or other magnified optic and shoot it from bags at 100 yards with a decent ammo to get an idea of how accurate it is.

USAF_Vet
February 24, 2013, 11:25 PM
I'm a bit iffy on the left handed shooting and the right hand ejection.

He says it barely brushed his chin with the .223, and the hotter 5.56 did eject forward, but I'd rather see a true ambi bullpup that isn't vaporware or grossly over MSRP (RFB).

I really want to like bullpups, but as a southpaw, just haven't found one I'm comfortable with.

allaroundhunter
February 24, 2013, 11:27 PM
It appears that the rear of the thumb/wrist on your shooting hand is very close to the magazine release. Is there a chance for you to accidentally drop the magazine by hitting it with your thumb? Or is it not quite as close as it appears?

wally
February 25, 2013, 02:35 PM
grossly over MSRP (RFB).

IMHO the RFB would be worth the ~$1500 they generally go for *if* they were reliable as as say an FAL or AR10. Unfortunately mine sure isn't.


Looks like the trigger reset on the Tavor was really long. I'd be a bit concerned about the trigger guard too, do they have to wear mittens a lot in Israel? Would be a nice feature in Alaska, for sure.

dmckean44
February 25, 2013, 02:56 PM
It looks fun to me.

briansmithwins
February 25, 2013, 03:19 PM
Most ambidextrous bullpup I've ever seen is the FS2000. You can just switch shoulders w/o changing anything since the ejection path is out the front.

The lefties I've lent the rifle to we're able to run the left side CH easily too.

BSW

CoRoMo
February 25, 2013, 05:46 PM
MAC is probably my favorite channel on YouTube. Keep up the good work!

Atticaz
February 25, 2013, 05:56 PM
AWESOME!! Thanks for posting that

AethelstanAegen
February 25, 2013, 06:21 PM
I really want to like bullpups, but as a southpaw, just haven't found one I'm comfortable with.

You can pretty easily convert a Tavor to be a left-handed rifle but you will have to buy a new bolt. The ejection port and charging handle can be swapped out for the other side.

nwilliams
February 26, 2013, 12:56 AM
I want one soooo bad!

Girodin
February 26, 2013, 01:36 AM
but I'd rather see a true ambi bullpup that isn't vaporware or grossly over MSRP (RFB).

FS2000?

I like bullpups, and own/have owned various ones, but for $1999 sans sights, it is not something that greatly appeals to me. Others will surely feel differently. Maybe getting one in hand would suddenly change my mind, but I doubt it. It would have to be both better than my Noveske with SSA trigger and my bullpups from Steyr and FN.

meanmrmustard
February 26, 2013, 08:02 AM
FS2000?

I like bullpups, and own/have owned various ones, but for $1999 sans sights, it is not something that greatly appeals to me. Others will surely feel differently. Maybe getting one in hand would suddenly change my mind, but I doubt it. It would have to be both better than my Noveske with SSA trigger and my bullpups from Steyr and FN.
Agreed.

I myself figured if I needed a compact rifle for using in a vehicle cab, AR or AK SBR would fit that bill as well.

TCBPATRIOT
February 26, 2013, 09:53 AM
I've wanted one of these since I discovered that it existed. Its the only bull pup that has ever flipped the "GOTTA HAVE IT!" switch for me.

dcarch
February 26, 2013, 12:37 PM
MAC is probably my favorite channel on YouTube. Keep up the good work!
This. And, the Tavor, after watching the review, now sits firmly up with the VEPR and the VEPR-12 on my wish list. I always enjoy your videos, sir. (and the fact that they're one fourth the length of nutnfancy's doesn't hurt.) Keep up the great work.

Girodin
February 26, 2013, 05:22 PM
I think I'm yet to make it to the end of a nutnfancy video. Actually I couldn't turn away from watching that "smith" do a hack job on his 1911, thank goodness is was only a Taurus. Someone needs to tell him "brevity is the sole of wit."

sturmgewehr
February 28, 2013, 11:40 AM
The reset you hear is not unusual, an AR15 on video (with my equipment) will sound much the same. It's an overly sensitive mic.

The trigger is slightly heavy and is on the heavy side for a military trigger. However the specs for the M16/M4 are between 5.5lbs and 9.5lbs. In a test the military discovered the average trigger pull for a sample set of 30 rifles was 7.9lbs.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a271577.pdf

I like a 7lbs trigger, or in that area for a fighting rifle. I don't like a hair trigger and I don't prefer a super heavy trigger either. The Tavors trigger has a nice long reach which makes the pull better than a 9lbs trigger with a short reach (for me, I have big hands).

The trigger certainly wouldn't make me exclude this rifle. The trigger on the Tavor is still better than the FS2000 and while a tad bit heavier than the AUG, it's a better trigger still.

sturmgewehr
February 28, 2013, 11:44 AM
The Tavor is 100% convertible to left hand use, even more so than the AUG. Unlike the AUG, the Tavor can also have its charging handle relocated to the right side of the rifle.

The Tavor can be purchased (or converted) as a left hand rifle. It will eject out of the left side of the rifle. The safety can be moved to the right side as well (the AUG's push block safety is awkward when firing from the left hand). The magazine release on the Tavor is ambi in design. The bolt release is ambi in design. The Tavor is very left hand friendly.

sturmgewehr
February 28, 2013, 11:46 AM
It appears that the rear of the thumb/wrist on your shooting hand is very close to the magazine release. Is there a chance for you to accidentally drop the magazine by hitting it with your thumb? Or is it not quite as close as it appears?
I agree, it does look close but I can not accidentally hit the mag release even when I try to purposely grab the rifle incorrectly. I'll show this in more detail in the final review.

allaroundhunter
March 1, 2013, 06:51 PM
I agree, it does look close but I can not accidentally hit the mag release even when I try to purposely grab the rifle incorrectly. I'll show this in more detail in the final review.

That's great to hear, thanks for the input!

JustinJ
March 1, 2013, 07:00 PM
I really want to like bullpups, but as a southpaw, just haven't found one I'm comfortable with.

All you have do is get a left handed bolt for the AUG and it's now a southpaw gun. In that sense it is more ambi than an AR.

I myself figured if I needed a compact rifle for using in a vehicle cab, AR or AK SBR would fit that bill as well.

I think you're missing the point of a bullpup. They give one the benefits of a SBR without the penalty of velocity loss and flash/noise increase.

LiquidTension
March 2, 2013, 02:57 PM
When shooting from your support side shoulder you quite obviously had your cheek weld a few inches farther back on the gun than you did when you were shooting strong side. It appears that if you used the same position on both sides you'd end up with a face full of brass and possibly a malfunction. Not necessarily a deal killer but certainly something you'd have to keep in mind if you're used to running ARs. What's the mechanical offset with that optic? Looks like at least 3" but it's hard to tell without handling it.

B!ngo
March 2, 2013, 06:19 PM
I believe that the Tavor has a left-hand bolt/receiver-mod option. I don't believe that they are shipping yet, but since I'm a lefty, I was pretty keen on getting that info.
The review showing the spent cases just clearing his chin is not a solution for left-handers, but is an illustration of the viability of shooting weak hand if need be.
I'm a big believer in bull pup configurations for battle-style rifles and this one looks like a winner. But in the past few years, I invested in AR designs for 5.56/.223, .22LR and was considering a .308. I'd consider scrapping them both (as well as an MP5 clone) and going with the Tavor for .223 and 9mm (with converter) and the Kel-Tec for .308 but it just seems like a lot of work.
I might cave in a year or two though.
B

USAF_Vet
March 3, 2013, 03:26 PM
I'm going to save my nickles and dimes for an FS2000.

If I'm goin to get a bullpup of any kind, it'll have to be 100% ambi.

briansmithwins
March 3, 2013, 03:45 PM
The lefties that have tried my FS2000 liked it. The only control that isn't ambidexterious is the CH. The two southpaws that tried it were able to reach the CH easily.

The most lefty friendly rifle I've ever seen is the SCAR. Even the CH can be flipped on that one.

BSW

dcarch
March 3, 2013, 04:23 PM
The new ARX-160 is very leftie friendly too... of course, it would be nice to actually see those in the wild. Beretta introduced them at last year's shot show, and so far, I haven't seen anything of them. Kinda like the VLTOR Bren Ten... oh well.

Gordon
March 3, 2013, 08:33 PM
Still like to see a rested 100 or 200 meter group with one. I am not interested in AK or less "combat" accuracy!:rolleyes: I have not yet seen any .223 semi auto bull pup that could do 6" or less at 200 yards with a magnified optic and that was a 'tuned' Aug .

JustinJ
March 4, 2013, 12:00 PM
Still like to see a rested 100 or 200 meter group with one. I am not interested in AK or less "combat" accuracy! I have not yet seen any .223 semi auto bull pup that could do 6" or less at 200 yards with a magnified optic and that was a 'tuned' Aug .

How does one "tune" an AUG? With the right ammo mine does a hair better than 2" at 100 yards(5 shot groups) so i have not doubt it can do under 6" at 200. The hardest part is of course the trigger until you get used to it.

Certaindeaf
March 4, 2013, 12:17 PM
Probably wait ten years for the bugs to be worked out/see if there'll be long term support/viability.. always sucks to be a beta tester.

briansmithwins
March 4, 2013, 12:43 PM
And that's why I didn't pre-order one.

If 6-12 months goes by w/o any of the beta testers (advance order suckers) having any problems I'll most likely get one.

BSW

Girodin
March 4, 2013, 02:46 PM
I must agree with JustinJ with respect to the AUG's accuracy. My experience is that the mechanical accuracy of the AUG is better than 6" at 200 yards. For best accuracy results with any gun one needs decent ammo and a competent shooter. My Noveske is a consistent 5 shot group sub MOA gun, but not with wolf which simply is not consistent enough ammo and becomes the weak link in the accuracy chain. I also agree with JustinJ that the trigger on the AUG and many other bullpups makes precision shooting difficult in comparison to other guns. I know when I am dealing with a less than stellar trigger it is hard to make the most of the gun. An example of this is my experience shooting saiga rifles pre and post pistol grip conversion, which involves installing a better FCG.

I'm with the others that would give this, or almost any new gun, several months to make sure it is sorted. It typically also lets prices settle down a bit if the gun is an in demand item. It took more than 6 months but the FS2000 started out as a $2000 and come down to about $1500 at my LGS. The Sig 556 started out at $2k, had a bunch of problems, and then came all the way down to around $1000 at one point. Nothing about this gun makes me feel the need to rush out and buy the first ones available. The gun tempting me to do that is the Sig MPX-C if it ever becomes a reality.

C0untZer0
March 10, 2013, 09:24 AM
Are these actually available for purchase now?

On KGI's wensite they appear to have them for sale - there is no " On backorder" verbiage or anything...

TCBPATRIOT
March 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
Its pre-order first batch should be shipped early to mid April. That's about all I know.

stubbicatt
March 11, 2013, 09:36 AM
OP sure is enthusiastic about this rifle. It looks like it could be a pretty fun rifle.

henschman
March 11, 2013, 04:33 PM
It's lookin good. I like how it has an AR-height rail rather than a G-36 height, like the FS-2000. ACOGs and anything else AR height sit too high on the FN.

If you enjoyed reading about "New US made Tavor: First Shots" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!