Laughing at the so called shortage.


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kingmt
February 25, 2013, 08:10 PM
With a Google search I found all kinds of 223 ammo. It was going up to $2 a round. Which means I just shot over $2000 worth of ammo yesterday & I had only spent about $50 for. People keep trying to convince me I don't save money reloading.

I also just shipped out almost $1000 in reloading tools today that was all stuff I wanted to replace or just get rid of. I had about $300 in. I bought everything I wanted to replace & bought myself into a new hobby of casting & still have money left over.

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Certaindeaf
February 25, 2013, 08:17 PM
A mag dump is the equivalent to lighting a good Cohiba with a hundred dollar bill.

splattergun
February 25, 2013, 08:17 PM
shortage, no. not if one is willing to pay up. :mad:

OilyPablo
February 25, 2013, 08:25 PM
There WAS a time when reloading $8.99 9mm did not make much sense. Key word = was.

9mm is $30/box for plinking junk. Wow.

hueyville
February 25, 2013, 08:26 PM
Local Wallmart has Federal 55 grain .223 in 100 round boxes for 32.95 each. I bought three today for 105.77 with sales tax. Put them up for auction today and are at 225.00 already with 2:15 left on auction as of now. Guessing they will go for around 300.00 to 350.00. I sold total of five 1,200 round cases before I stopped selling my personal stock. Our Walmart getting shipments in daily. My plan is to buy 300 per day and sell. I told a local acquaintance that I had .223 up for auction and he is upset I didn't offer to him first. He said would pay 2.50 per round if had offered. So tomorrow, I may sell direct to him instead of interwebz. Funny thing is he lives closer to Walmart than I do. So many people have become used to ammo not being available they have stopped looking at normal venues and obsessing with online auctions and private sales. Our Walmart getting 223, 9mm, 45 and 22lr regular. It runs out by mid afternoon but the restock every night. Local gun shops are getting regular orders in. At least one a day gets ammo, stocks it, puts 2 box limit per caliber and it goes away but next day another shop has it and then the third and back to the first. I am used to the routine and can buy several boxes per day at regular, non inflated prices. I flip it for double to triple and do it again. As I am a daily buyer, they all treat me well and even give me a heads up via text message when it is going to be put on shelf. I buy and flip, buy and flip. If people will stop letting me double or triple my money every day, I will quit doing it. But its like leading sheep or cows. Just put out some feed and watch them line up. Weird?!?!?!

Certaindeaf
February 25, 2013, 08:40 PM
Local Wallmart has Federal 55 grain .223 in 100 round boxes for 32.95 each. I bought three today for 105.77 with sales tax. Put them up for auction today and are at 225.00 already with 2:15 left on auction as of now. Guessing they will go for around 300.00 to 350.00. I sold total of five 1,200 round cases before I stopped selling my personal stock. Our Walmart getting shipments in daily. My plan is to buy 300 per day and sell. I told a local acquaintance that I had .223 up for auction and he is upset I didn't offer to him first. He said would pay 2.50 per round if had offered. So tomorrow, I may sell direct to him instead of interwebz. Funny thing is he lives closer to Walmart than I do. So many people have become used to ammo not being available they have stopped looking at normal venues and obsessing with online auctions and private sales. Our Walmart getting 223, 9mm, 45 and 22lr regular. It runs out by mid afternoon but the restock every night. Local gun shops are getting regular orders in. At least one a day gets ammo, stocks it, puts 2 box limit per caliber and it goes away but next day another shop has it and then the third and back to the first. I am used to the routine and can buy several boxes per day at regular, non inflated prices. I flip it for double to triple and do it again. As I am a daily buyer, they all treat me well and even give me a heads up via text message when it is going to be put on shelf. I buy and flip, buy and flip. If people will stop letting me double or triple my money every day, I will quit doing it. But its like leading sheep or cows. Just put out some feed and watch them line up. Weird?!?!?!
It seems like everybody is doing that.

highorder
February 25, 2013, 08:44 PM
Buying and flipping IS THE PROBLEM.

You sir, are the problem. You are not helping anyone. You are creating the new normal.

GT1
February 25, 2013, 08:47 PM
I'm going to take the high road and hold my tongue from saying what I really think.

hueyville and his ilk are the core of the problem. It is why there are now limits at wally world, and why no one can get it except on GB.

beatledog7
February 25, 2013, 08:52 PM
Yesterday I built a little box of 50 158-gr PFN .357 Magnum rounds just piddling after church. I figure they cost me just a squeak over $11 to build. The cheapest .357 Mag rounds on ammoengine.com right now are .40 a round or $20 for a box of 50. And .357 Mag isn't even a true victim of the mania.

Four days ago I did a box of 50 sweet shooting 124gr SWCs in 9x19 between teaching and a rehearsal, for 15 cents a round. Ammoengine has a cheapest per round price of 87 cents.

fallout mike
February 25, 2013, 08:53 PM
+1 to posts 7 & 8!

kingmt
February 25, 2013, 08:57 PM
Actually he isn't the problem. The people paying those prices are the problem.

ole farmerbuck
February 25, 2013, 09:00 PM
I think that is just wrong Hueyville,just wrong. You can argue back all you want but that is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Reefinmike
February 25, 2013, 09:01 PM
let me be the devils advocate here... how in the world did you roll up 1,000 rounds of ammo for $50? unless you're using components from 25 years ago.

1,000 plane jane 55gr fmj bullets- $90
1,000 223 casings- we'll call this free
1,000 primers- $25 after hazmat
3# powder @~$20/lb after haz n ship- $60

im looking at $175/k using the cheapest 2012 pricing

I'll be one of those people again- how long did it take to load up? I HATED loading up 223. tumb, lube, size/decap, tumble, trim, chamfer/deburr, swage/ream primer pocket and then load as normal. Dont get me wrong, I usually never count my time in ammo cost, but unless you're running the dillon super turbo trim progressive x4500 automatic loading press, I bet you have a good 10-12 hours. Pistol ammo is a breeze compared, I can pretty easily and safely pump out 300 rounds an hour on the turret press and cast 650-700 bullets an hour with the molds so I dont have any problem telling people that a box of 45 only cost me $1.90 :rolleyes:

As to the price gouging thing... yeah its crazy, but you know why the prices are so High? Its because those are the prices people are willing to pay! Honestly, If I were sitting on a bunch of factory ammo, Id sell it in a heartbeat. Last month I made a quick $600 by picking up 223 brass at the range for about 4 hours. sold it locally very quickly for $120/k. this was when people were paying double that on gunbroker. It was like the ground was littered with quarters. I need to go back there, cash is running low :D

fallout mike
February 25, 2013, 09:04 PM
The people are paying that price bc some guy buys the stock every day to "flip". Everyone can't make the rounds to every store every day. If these guys didn't do this there would be ammo left to buy. Seriously? The problem is the people paying the price? THEY CAN'T FIND ANY!! PEOPLE BUY IT UP EVERY DAY AS STATED IN THIS THREAD TO FLIP!!

Certaindeaf
February 25, 2013, 09:11 PM
A few weeks ago I said that a whole bunch of people were doing this.. just look around and read the classifieds/be informed etc. Got dogpiled/poo-pooed on by quite a few people denying any such thing was happening all across the nation. They were just probably trying to defend themselves and what they were/are really doing.

Sport45
February 25, 2013, 09:15 PM
Actually he isn't the problem. The people paying those prices are the problem.


Correct.

As long as folks are willing to pay the higher prices someone will be willing to sell it to them. Don't blame the seller.

ole farmerbuck
February 25, 2013, 09:17 PM
Correct.

As long as folks are willing to pay the higher prices someone will be willing to sell it to them. Don't blame the seller.
They wouldnt have to pay the high prices if there was some left in the stores for them.

fallout mike
February 25, 2013, 09:23 PM
Im gonna go out on a limb and say the people that thinks there is nothing wrong with this are participating in the same practice.

Mobuck
February 25, 2013, 09:25 PM
Are people too stupid or foolish to just go to the store and buy what's on the shelf? If it's not there, it can't be bought for any price. That's the situation in my area, there just isn't any ammo on the shelf. I walked past the ammo display at Wally today. The only ammo under 30 caliber was 5 boxes of 243 and 2 boxes of 7mm mag.
Not a problem for me because I was prepared.

Torian
February 25, 2013, 09:30 PM
Politicians putting forth ridiculous proposals to force mass registration and confiscation, while attempting to ban the majority of firearms we own are the enemy.

Individuals taking advantage of the fear in the market by making a profit might be a little unscrupulous, but I wouldn't go so far as to call them the "enemy".

Our enemies are those individuals who represent a direct threat to our 2nd amendment rights, and have no more respect for the Constitution than a piece of toilet paper.

KansasSasquatch
February 25, 2013, 09:31 PM
Farmerbuck and Certaindeaf are right in my opinion. I blame the "sellers" for creating the "shortage". But the only way it is going to stop is if the buyers quit buying at those ridiculous prices.

kingmt
February 25, 2013, 09:42 PM
Reefinmike

Good catch. That was a typo. I only had about 500 rounds. I done all of the sizing & prep work during the last recovery. I had a job that I got paid a lot but had little to do. So I actually got paid to do these. I loaded them at home with a powder measure. They were way under charged with cheap pulldown powder at $10/lb. Primers after HM/SH were $15/1000. 55gn FMJ pulldown bullets that I don't remember the price but I do remember they went to almost twice the price a month after I bought them. I remember being ticked at myself for not getting more.

Took me & the kids all day to go through those because they weren't sized enough. The kids were loading up the mag & I was shucking them through the bolt action. the ones that chambered easy I kicked back out for the AR but the really tight ones were shot in the bolt. after a while it even got hard to pull the trigger. My hand is still hurting from that stiff bolt.

ole farmerbuck
February 25, 2013, 09:47 PM
Reefinmike

Good catch. That was a typo. I only had about 500 rounds. I done all of the sizing & prep work during the last recovery. I had a job that I got paid a lot but had little to do. So I actually got paid to do these. I loaded them at home with a powder measure. They were way under charged with cheap pulldown powder at $10/lb. Primers after HM/SH were $15/1000. 55gn FMJ pulldown bullets that I don't remember the price but I do remember they went to almost twice the price a month after I bought them. I remember being ticked at myself for not getting more.

Took me & the kids all day to go through those because they weren't sized enough. The kids were loading up the mag & I was shucking them through the bolt action. the ones that chambered easy I kicked back out for the AR but the really tight ones were shot in the bolt. after a while it even got hard to pull the trigger. My hand is still hurting from that stiff bolt.
But,it sounds like you and the kids had fun!

kingmt
February 25, 2013, 09:49 PM
So if a company wants to buy your house say to put in a mall do you sell it to them a residential price of the $30K it was worth or do you want them to pay the commercial price?

Just asking.

kingmt
February 25, 2013, 09:50 PM
But,it sounds like you and the kids had fun!
We had fun.

kingmt
February 25, 2013, 09:56 PM
I don't like to see the guy in front of me buy every last box ether. The thing is he is just auctioning them hopefully asking a far price. If people pay more that is there fault.

KansasSasquatch
February 25, 2013, 10:07 PM
A company looking to build a mall is investing in a location and property. They are also going to pay taxes, create jobs, and provide a service. The people buying up all the ammo and flipping it aren't going to pay taxes on the profits (anything over $400 is generally taxable income) and are simply adding ANOTHER middleman to the process of buying ammo. I don't mind hoarders personally, but flippers are on my sore side. Not to mention with all the flipping going on there's no telling what kind of person you may be dealing with.

JVaughn
February 25, 2013, 10:08 PM
Where is it all going? Are they shooting it after they buy it for $1/rd? I think profiteering is deplorable but it's a reality I suppose. People compare it to buying and selling stocks or land, but the primary difference is that at the time they are bought and sold they are actually worth the market price. The ammo is artificially inflated due to the panic, .223 isn't really worth $1/rd but it brings it right now due to fear.

GLOOB
February 25, 2013, 10:08 PM
It's a shortage, people. The demand > supply. Scalpers aren't the problem. Concert goers aren't the problem. TicketMaster isn't the problem. The problem is there are only 1 thousand seats, and 10k people want to see the concert, cuz the liberal media and Obama have hyped it up to be the biggest show, ever.

This time next year, when there's the same 1 thousand seats, but only 500 people want to see the show, the scalpers will be gone, and ammo will be on the shelves, again.

cfullgraf
February 25, 2013, 10:16 PM
People keep trying to convince me I don't save money reloading.



I never said one does not save money reloading. What you do with the savings is up to you.

Have fun with casting. A good addition to a reloading hobby.

cal30_sniper
February 25, 2013, 10:19 PM
So if a company wants to buy your house say to put in a mall do you sell it to them a residential price of the $30K it was worth or do you want them to pay the commercial price?

Just asking.

I don't see how that has any relevance to the situation at hand. The house would represent something that you had owned for a long time and were selling due to the increased market value. That would be the equivalent of someone with a stockpile of ammo selling some off under the current market at an increased price. It would seem that is a good way to make money for someone who was overly prepared, a strategy that I doubt anyone here would criticize.

A more accurate analogy would be swindling an old lady (or someone else who didn't know any better) out of their house at fair residential market value and then turning around and reselling it to the mall for an increased commercial value. Still legal, and a great way to make lots of money, but reeking of very dubious ethics.

Walkalong
February 25, 2013, 10:19 PM
This time next year, when there's the same 1 thousand seats, but only 500 people want to see the show, the scalpers will be gone, and ammo will be on the shelves, again.
Yes it will, and people who slowly stocked up over the years are not the problem, no matter how much they have.

Folks who bought all they could before the election, looking to sell when something happened like last time, took a risk, but it paid off for them.

The only ones that irk me are the ones buying more than they need now just to flip it.

I'm not buying any of it. I'll stop shooting first. Fortunately I have enough to keep me shooting something until the drought subsides.

hueyville
February 25, 2013, 10:21 PM
I have been flipping guns, ammo and accessories for 30+ years. It is not me who has panicked and driven the prices up. It is the unprepared and procrastonators that have. Most of my stock was purchased up to a decade ago. Is it my fault others chose not to buy two bricks of 22 lr every week or so while it was plentiful? Is it my fault you didn't buy primers last year?

To blame me is to deny your own culpability in your lack of preparation. I have sold almost as much for what I paid as I have doubled or tripled down on. Do I owe some guy in Texas a deal because I have spent 20 years buying and building relationships with LGS's while he was buying bare minimum stock from cheapest internet source? Look in the mirror folks. You all had the same opportunity I had. You all saw the Bush ban, the Clinton freak and others. I actually gave three bricks away last week to a local Boy Scout group. I have purchased six specific 22's just to help Scouts earn their marksmanship merit badge. I have personally supplied the guns, ammo and my time for over 500 Boys to learn to shoot through that program. Have not seen y'all out there with me. I will use a lot of the proceeds from the crowd that freaked due to being unprepared to finance future scouts. I have a friend a brick two weeks ago because his kids were out of rimfire. I chose not to blame his kids for the sins of the father. That said, I did not front him the 500 rounds of 5.56 he wanted to borrow till he could replace. I did let him shoot a 100 rounds of my 45 range ammo. I did not start this run but I was positioned to make a buck. I did it in '86 and several others. I will do it next panic and if your not prepared for it, not my fault.

I have zero to do with these problems. I am a trader at heart. I am trying to wake some of you up and really don't care what you think of me but do know in my heart of hearts that if you blame me its misplaced. You can't go to the gun store? Whine! How often have you ridden by and not stopped? How many times have you bought that gun show "deal" instead of working with your LGS? There is a reason I get text messages when stock arrives. When everything returns to normal they know I will still be supporting them instead of ordering for a few dollars less on the internet. I spent decades putting together a 5 man power buying co-op that purchases 25,000 primers a quarter from our LGS. You think if you flipped a local guy 100,000 primer per year deal plus the powder they ignite you might be on the A list? It is not me paying stupid prices. Some of what I am selling was actually purchased in the 1980's knowing there would be a need for extra some day. If I were truly evil I would sit on it all and laugh. I offer it and let the market that failed to prepare set the price. I have sold 11 SKS's in past few months. I purchased one a week for over two years when they were 90 bucks with 600 rounds of ammo. All 11 have gone to men that were ecstatic to get a rifle and ammo in one deal. I let them make the offer and have never had to counter offer. On all of these sells, the buyer asked "how much?" and I said make me an offer. Every time I room their first offer. Not my fault they thought they were worth 600 to 800 bucks every single time.

The best lessons in life are usually hard earned. Blame me or learn. If you don't, you will be in the same boat next run. Stop by my place and I will break out a brick of 22's, couple hundred centerfire and we will blaze away on my dime. But I owe a stranger zip. At the beginning of this I had three THR regular users ask me to hook them up. One guy I burned my own gas, invested my own cash to buy him 3,000 small rifle primers. He committed to the deal at 30.99 per 1,000 which is my LGS shelf price. All he had to do was reimburse me exact investment plus shipping. I called just 1 hour later with his primers in hand. He told me had just found some 7.62x39 at Wallyworld and traded them for primers and didn't need the ones I picked up for him. Two others I purchased powder for and bullets who once I had their desires in my hand happened to find enough on the internet to get them buy and left me holding the bag. I have five packages of free brass and bullets going out to THR patrons when I get my wife out of hospital on Wednesday. One decent kid is getting 250 cast bullets free and I am picking up shipping as well. I have cases going out and even gave away a pound of powder. That said, if I roll into Wallyworld tomorrow and find 500 more Federal .223 on shelf I will buy them and post them for auction. I purposely left 500 on shelf today for next guy. I have been going in a couple evenings a week to help a couple LGS's stock shelves for free. SO LISTEN UP, NOT MY FAULT YOU HAVE NOT BUILT RELATIONSHIPS OR THAT PEOPLE WHO PANIC PAY STUPID PRICES? You going to blame me for buying preban Colt AR's in early '80's for 425.00 NIB? I am really a nice guy. I have taken over 600 Boy Scouts out for entire weekends to get their rock climbing merit badge. In addition I take half a.dozen or more church youth groups climbing per year. That burns up to three ropes a year? I mule over 5,000 dollars worth of medication to a Catholic orphanage/clinic in Peru every two years. Yes, beating my own chest a bit but you unprepared are financing my ministry work in Moldova, Peru, Bolivia, West Virginia and Louisiana swamps. Because I flip some guns and ammo to keep me shooting, kids shooting and other projects running you are accusing me of being the problem. Absolutely not. Come meet me and see of your presumptions fit. So just trash talk out of ignorance, blame others for your inability to participate in a sport you didn't prepare to play and I will roll into the LGS tomorrow and Wallyworld, pick up some more ammo while you whine and make it available to top bidder. If I get no bids, I will quit. So time to end the rant. This is free education for the future. This is a short term deal, don't let short term memory put you in the same spot next time.

mgmorden
February 25, 2013, 10:22 PM
I think that is just wrong Hueyville,just wrong. You can argue back all you want but that is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Ever merchant in existence makes the money that they make by buying something and then selling it for more than what they paid for it.

That's the name of the game - you go out, you buy something that you know you can sell for more, and then you sell it. Doesn't matter if its baseball cards, cars, houses, or ammo.

Thats what the free market economy is about. Eventually either demand will drop or supply will catch up and prices will fall, but don't blame people for selling an item for what another person is willing to pay for it in the meantime.

fallout mike
February 25, 2013, 10:28 PM
Hueyville, you have completely changed your story.

OilyPablo
February 25, 2013, 10:31 PM
I have been flipping guns, ammo.........

You MAY not want to post that on a public forum.

Fishgrouse
February 25, 2013, 10:32 PM
I'm a new member. Just joined to look for some hand load data but stumbled onto this thread. I'll only say that there is a difference between legal and ethical. Huey is well within his rights to flip ammo but I don't like seeing it done. I can't go to Wallyworld every morning and wait for the truck to arrive but I know that every evening when I do go by there, the shelves are empty.

ole farmerbuck
February 25, 2013, 10:34 PM
Ever merchant in existence makes the money that they make by buying something and then selling it for more than what they paid for it.

That's the name of the game - you go out, you buy something that you know you can sell for more, and then you sell it. Doesn't matter if its baseball cards, cars, houses, or ammo.

Thats what the free market economy is about. Eventually either demand will drop or supply will catch up and prices will fall, but don't blame people for selling an item for what another person is willing to pay for it in the meantime.
SO grandad takes his grandson to walmart to buy a box of ammo to go shoot and there isnt any because hueyville just left with all of it to sell on gunbroker is right? Wrong man wrong!

fallout mike
February 25, 2013, 10:34 PM
I think it may actually be illegal to buy gun after gun with the intent to resell for a profit. Someone correct me if im wrong.

OilyPablo
February 25, 2013, 10:39 PM
It's illegal without a FFL.

ole farmerbuck
February 25, 2013, 10:39 PM
I wonder how much he turns in for taxes.

Reefinmike
February 25, 2013, 10:41 PM
I just went to wally mainly to humor myself, partially to see if maybe they had some 22 because im down to a brick, dont shoot much 22 since 45 is cheaper :D . anyways, three boxes of .243, a box of turkey shot and three boxes of birdshot. I hate walking out of a store empty handed so I bought myself a bottle of hoppes delicious banana solvent air freshener :)

david_r
February 25, 2013, 10:44 PM
hueyville,
Haters are going to hate. I am a capitalist. I control my own destiny. I see no problem with you selling anything you own on the free market. I applaud your zero risk business acumen. What, no one wants to buy my ammo? Great, I'll go shoot it!! Either way, you win.

On 9/11/2001, I walked into my LGS and grabbed a case of 223 I didn't really need. It was a ghost town. Everyone else was at their 9 to 5 jobs because they didn't want to miss their free bagels. Then they all sat around and didn't do a productive thing all day long.

I really just wanted to post before they lock this thread :D

Reefinmike
February 25, 2013, 10:46 PM
close er down! too much bashing and name calling here

KansasSasquatch
February 25, 2013, 10:47 PM
There's a difference between buying when prices are low and selling when they're high, and buying when stuff is scarce and flipping it for 200-400% mark-up. Hueyville I have no problem with you selling the stash you have built up over the years, even if its for 10x what you paid, but that's a different story from the flipping that's going on.

Certaindeaf
February 25, 2013, 10:52 PM
I wonder how much he turns in for taxes.Sounds like he's a minister or something. I think they're exempt.

GT1
February 25, 2013, 10:53 PM
Justifying profiteering is as sad as doing it. *shrug*

hueyville
February 25, 2013, 10:59 PM
I bought guns 20 years ago with intent to pile up like fire wood. Now an opportunity has arisen. I have not changed my story. Still flipping to those willing to pay. I give to those who need and hook up those that are polite. That said, I need to get some primers from ATL to Texas for a "polite" member of this board. If someone can figure out the transfer, I will be taking a loss on this deal. Yes, I flip locally and on interwebz. But that said, done my best on three occasions to hook up THR users with zero markup only to be stabbed in the back after investing my cash to help them. So someone figure out a way to mule these primers to Houston from ATL so a fellow patron can shoot his rifle. Hazmat kills his "deal". I really enjoy this button pushing as it seems to separate the whiners from the rational.

kingmt
February 25, 2013, 11:07 PM
Stand corrected them.

I thought things were funny that all of this stuff is still comming in even faster then normal. Stores are getting 3 times there normally stock. All of that & people are still acting like there is a shortage. I had people pay more for my used stuff then new cost & there is only a few week wait on things. This could all be over tomorrow if people will calm down.

I'm normally not into thread closings but this has taken to the low road.

Please close it.

fallout mike
February 25, 2013, 11:08 PM
Your words are not jiving. You stated that you make rounds every day to buy available ammo to flip for a 300-400% profit. You are helping no one but yourself. The ammo would be available at the stores you bought it from for people to buy at normal prices with no markup. No one has a problem with you selling stuff you have had besides this daily buy flip buy flip you yourself so eloquently described to us which is probably against the law and probably would be considered taxable income by the IRS since you stated you are doing it for profit. Sounds like you are trying to worm out of this hole you have dug for yourself.

cal30_sniper
February 25, 2013, 11:10 PM
I bought guns 20 years ago with intent to pile up like fire wood. Now an opportunity has arisen. I have not changed my story. Still flipping to those willing to pay. I give to those who need and hook up those that are polite. That said, I need to get some primers from ATL to Texas for a "polite" member of this board. If someone can figure out the transfer, I will be taking a loss on this deal. Yes, I flip locally and on interwebz. But that said, done my best on three occasions to hook up THR users with zero markup only to be stabbed in the back after investing my cash to help them. So someone figure out a way to mule these primers to Houston from ATL so a fellow patron can shoot his rifle. Hazmat kills his "deal". I really enjoy this button pushing as it seems to separate the whiners from the rational.

I can vouch for this. Regardless of what we think about flipping, hueyville does seem to be more of a Robin Hood figure than a cutthroat capitalist. He will help out those in need.

I'll play the devils advocate for a minute, and say that online flippers are the only way some of us actually can get supplies. The shortage in the parts of Texas I have seen has been like a deathgrip. It's not that we pay too much for components locally, its that components don't exist at all. People aren't buying them and flipping them here, they are buying them and stockpiling them. In a lot of cases, stuff isn't even making it to the stores. It's not that it disappears by 10AM, it's that its been gone for a long time and hasn't been showing up period. It's got to come from somewhere, and the retail stores/gun stores aren't cutting the mustard. Some people with unique financial situations may be willing to pay more to get it while they can. Can you fault the guy that has money and is willing to spend it?

Sport45
February 25, 2013, 11:24 PM
Im gonna go out on a limb and say the people that thinks there is nothing wrong with this are participating in the same practice.

You'd be wrong here. I'm not buying or selling.

Sport45
February 25, 2013, 11:29 PM
This sounds like the old argument, which came first, the chicken or the egg?
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=180449&stc=1&d=1361852903

fallout mike
February 25, 2013, 11:29 PM
That is a good point.

hueyville
February 25, 2013, 11:36 PM
This is a hoot. So my next question is this, if I put my motorcycle on ebay and someone bids it up three times my actual investment, is that me taking advantage of the ability to buy my parts wholesale? Is my risk to buy parts, labor to collect said parts and assemble them into a working bike not of some value.

fallout mike
February 25, 2013, 11:44 PM
Its not illegal to do that. What you have told us is illegal without a ffl.

Sol
February 25, 2013, 11:46 PM
I don't know but you have to admire the capitalist approach. Early bird catches the worm. All the signs for ammocolypse were there in 2012 Trayvon, Aurora, Sandy Hook, election year etc. Sorry about the callous trend analysis.

PixelBender
February 25, 2013, 11:51 PM
Local Wallmart has Federal 55 grain .223 in 100 round boxes for 32.95 each. I bought three today for 105.77 with sales tax. Put them up for auction today and are at 225.00 already with 2:15 left on auction as of now. Guessing they will go for around 300.00 to 350.00. I sold total of five 1,200 round cases before I stopped selling my personal stock. Our Walmart getting shipments in daily. My plan is to buy 300 per day and sell. I told a local acquaintance that I had .223 up for auction and he is upset I didn't offer to him first. He said would pay 2.50 per round if had offered. So tomorrow, I may sell direct to him instead of interwebz. Funny thing is he lives closer to Walmart than I do. So many people have become used to ammo not being available they have stopped looking at normal venues and obsessing with online auctions and private sales. Our Walmart getting 223, 9mm, 45 and 22lr regular. It runs out by mid afternoon but the restock every night. Local gun shops are getting regular orders in. At least one a day gets ammo, stocks it, puts 2 box limit per caliber and it goes away but next day another shop has it and then the third and back to the first. I am used to the routine and can buy several boxes per day at regular, non inflated prices. I flip it for double to triple and do it again. As I am a daily buyer, they all treat me well and even give me a heads up via text message when it is going to be put on shelf. I buy and flip, buy and flip. If people will stop letting me double or triple my money every day, I will quit doing it. But its like leading sheep or cows. Just put out some feed and watch them line up. Weird?!?!?!

I don't mean to be a jerk but, it sounds to me like you're screwing people over and turning a hell of a profit. Now, I get the whole shortage nonsense, but I dunno... You sound like a jerk with all this "my Walmart has ammo, and hahah, morons are paying top dollar"- I mean come on, could you gloat about it any more?

And that friend of yours, some friend you are, selling him ammo @ $2.50 a round, instead of just picking up a few boxes for him?

I dunno, your post just kinda irritated me, ya know with all the companies and people profiting off the souls of dead children and all.

Constrictor
February 25, 2013, 11:53 PM
I dont understand the seasoned shooter not being at least 1 year ahead on components. Heck, you gotta do it just to stay ahead of price increases!

PixelBender
February 25, 2013, 11:55 PM
Ahh it's nice to see other people disagree with this individuals actions.

Look, people are stupid, I get it, but scumming people out of money and gloating about it online, he's the reason my Walmart has zero ammo, yet eBay and gunbroker are selling $900 cans of remanufactured .223 - it's just rude, like the guy who goes to the Parking lot sale, and buys every single can of .223 - stink eyes will be had for being a greedy jerk.

clocker
February 25, 2013, 11:55 PM
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

It's funny how most of the posts fit within one of those five stages of grief/loss. Most of us are hopefully in this for the long term. Supply will come back. Either be patient or build relationships with retailers or pay the current market prices.

There's not much use in getting frustrated with people in our own community. Thanks hueyville for your posts here. I think that tonight was the first night that I could finally put aside my old reactions and look at your posts with a real open mind.

ole farmerbuck
February 26, 2013, 12:11 AM
This is a hoot. So my next question is this, if I put my motorcycle on ebay and someone bids it up three times my actual investment, is that me taking advantage of the ability to buy my parts wholesale? Is my risk to buy parts, labor to collect said parts and assemble them into a working bike not of some value.
You didnt go to the bike shop and buy every bike in there either. Thats the difference.

KansasSasquatch
February 26, 2013, 12:15 AM
Clocker by current market price are you referring to what reputable distributors are charging or what flippers are charging? Ill gladly pay what companies like Powder Valley, MBC, Cabelas, and Midway are charging. Yes they are slightly elevated, but that's supposedly due to increased costs for manufacturers and not because of pending legislation. Those companies offer good products and great service and you can trust you're not getting scammed or gouged. I'm not saying anyone in this thread is, or would, scam or gouge, but can that be said about everyone flipping shooting products right now?

BGD
February 26, 2013, 12:24 AM
I am disgusted by the whole thing. I have enough components to last me about 6 months. When I run out I will stop shooting until I can find components. I will keep enough for deer hunting next fall.

Next July if I cant find some primers, powder and bullets at a reasonable price I wont shoot. I will go fishing. This entire situation is totally unacceptable to me.

I am not laughing. I am irritated and disgusted. This is not how it should be. It takes some of the fun out of it, not knowing when I will be able to find a pound of retumbo let alone bullseye or unique, and I will not pay ridiculous prices.

david_r
February 26, 2013, 12:31 AM
Pretty sure that his purchases have ZERO impact on supply in my area, your area or the total supply of available ammunition. Fact is, there are more people buying ammunition than the amount in the supply chain can provide. He is moving it from his locale to another locale. THE SUPPLY ISN'T CHANGING. If he and others were not doing so, how would this magically make ammunition appear at YOUR LGS? How would it increase supply? Must be some kind of economic magic that I didn't learn. The only people that COULD have a bone to pick with him are people local to him. However, if Walmart is stocking boxes every night, then they're just plain lazy and not going and buying it. The logic behind everyone's denial is baffling.

An auction is the ultimate free market endeavor. It will not sell for one more penny than it is worth. If it isn't worth that price to you, there really is only one answer. Sucks to be you.

Does everyone also whine about stock prices going up? About gold prices? "I was going to buy some. All the signs were there but I just didn't get around to it. Now I want everyone else to stop buying to suit my priorities."

that dog don't hunt

demerp
February 26, 2013, 12:32 AM
I bought guns 20 years ago with intent to pile up like fire wood. ... I give to those who need and hook up those that are polite.
i think this is the proper mindset, "I give to those who need and hook up those that are polite". that is proper, & giving back to those in our fellow shooting community.

i don't think what hueyville is doing is wrong. in a market w/ revved up demand, prices must rise to balance until demand balances supply, or supplies will run out. as an alternative to rising prices to prevent supply mismatch, vendors can limit the amount a given customer can buy. i believe Walmart is already doing this, at least my local one is.

if anything, Hueyville is adding to market liquidity, by moving the product out across the country to other buyers, via Gunbroker.

the arguments here are reminiscent to me of the gas shortages in NY/NJ after Hurricane Sandy. there, the government came down w/ price controls, which are never a good thing (as normal prices in the face of increased demand=supply running out). allow the vendor to increase the price to that which the market will bear, so that it will find equilibrium. or, if the vendor chooses to keep prices where they were), let him limit the amount sold to each customer, as Walmart has done w/ ammo.

i agree w/ Hueyville & Constrictor, w/ Constrictor's sentiment "I dont understand the seasoned shooter not being at least 1 year ahead on components." buy a little extra each time you find a good deal on ammo/components, so that you can ride out the spikes.

it reminds me of the situation w/ water/food we get after our hurricanes down here. everyone in FL knows we get hurricanes (like everyone knows we get periodic ammo/component price shocks), but still many complain when they are caught unprepared.

in the face of a predictable price/availability shock, either plan ahead of time, modify your behavior (i.e. shoot less), or admit you did wrong & wait it out/suffer like a man.

above all, learn from your mistakes.

BullfrogKen
February 26, 2013, 12:32 AM
The only ones that irk me are the ones buying more than they need now just to flip it.

I'm not buying any of it. I'll stop shooting first. Fortunately I have enough to keep me shooting something until the drought subsides.


I refuse to buy ammo and components second-hand over the internet.

I didn't do it the last shortage.

I won't do it now.


I'll forego my entire match season this year, and not shoot at all next year I will, if those are the consequences

fallout mike
February 26, 2013, 12:34 AM
Its wrong according to the law. And IRS if he isn't reporting his side business.

gab909
February 26, 2013, 12:39 AM
although I do not concur with the actions taken, I cannot condemn either. If people are willing to pay that, then that is their problem. If you don't like what Huey is doing, take him off your Christmas list. If people are too lazy to do a little running around and checking that is the problem. The web is a great thing and a bad thing at the same time. Just like the people of ************ worried about the 30 round magazine Ban. Guess what Morons you haven't been able to get a 30 round mag for about 10 years. Oh no, the bullet button ban also.... guess what you already have that also. Panic stricken morons afraid of losing something that they already lost. Wake up people and take note. After this primer/powder crisis there will be another one...How will you fair in the next one.....

shiftyer1
February 26, 2013, 02:06 AM
I cannot understand how you can be upset because someone got up early and made the effort to get to the store before you.

Ya'll come on over and offer me rediculous prices on things and i'll sell ya almost everything I own.

If people didn't buy when low and sell at a profit there would be no business. If folks chill out with there darn panicing things will be back to normal.

ole farmerbuck
February 26, 2013, 06:47 AM
Maybe Huey should get set up with Federal and Winchester and CCI if he wants to profit instead of going around town and cleaning all the shelvs off so Father/son or whoever can go in and buy a box or two.

Duckdog
February 26, 2013, 06:50 AM
Your always going to have leeches in these situations. if you work with 5 guys, one will be one. Remember the E Bay craze where all of these leechbags were gonna make a killing at everyones expense by artificially inflating prices by paying more than things were worth so they could flip them for more profit? This is the same. I know a couple of these pusheads and all I say to them is that they should get a real job.

I'm stocked up for a long time, so there's no sour grapes here, but this crap gets old.

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