Averting disaster.


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Patocazador
February 26, 2013, 10:14 AM
Yesterday I shot my Ruger Old Army with some experimental loads using small rifle primers and BlackHorn 209. The 1st shot ignited the primer but not the powder producing a pop but no boom. Without thinking I recocked the gun to fire again when the bell went off in my brain. I lowered the hammer and inspected the gun. The cylinder had powder but no bullet. I removed the cylinder and saw that the primer had pushed the bullet into the barrel thus obstructing it. I managed to clear it with the ramrod from my Hawken.

The result could have been disastrous if I had pulled the trigger on that 2nd shot. Don't "fall asleep" out on the range or while hunting. It could send you to the emergency room .. or worse.

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dogrunner
February 26, 2013, 10:23 AM
What sort of arrangement are you using enabling the use of standard primers?

Just curious.................& you are right on relative to always paying attention....once saw a minty pre model 10 S&W wind up with two stuck rounds in the bbl......split the forcing cone but luckily did not blow.

Lunie
February 26, 2013, 10:24 AM
Glad you caught it before the kaboom!

BHP FAN
February 26, 2013, 11:08 AM
Did that with my Arisaka, last year. inherited the ammo, and some of the primers must've gotton polluted from WD40, because some just went ''pop'', and propelled powder and bullet to stick in the bore...without igniting the powder!

Doak
February 26, 2013, 03:11 PM
Hey Patocazador ~
I had a similar experience several days ago, for different reasons. Was shootin' BP and tried a "grease cookie" experiment. Proper placement of the "cookie" is over the powder, on top of a bee's wax barrier. In this case, a rice cigarette paper soaked w/bee's wax. Thin card wad under the bullet goes over it all.

Well, near as I can figure, the barrier musta ruptured, during bullet seating, and the "cookie" oozed into the BP and put the fire out. The small pistol primer, all by itself, had enuff horsepower to push the bullet haffway into the forcin' cone and lock up the cylinder. Like you, I pushed it back into the cylinder.

So this is an unintended consequence of using "primer capsules"...squib loads!

Sorry I couldn't have given ya a heads up before the fact...didn't know it was a problem.

Kindest Regards,
Doak

boommer
February 26, 2013, 09:38 PM
doak where did you come up with that grease cookie combo? What type or mix of lube are you using? YOUR DANG LUCKY that powder didn't delay ignite would not been a pretty picture! Card under powder tight fit then a cookie then card on top,,, and you need to compress the powder with the first card to the proper height so when your grease cookie and bullet under card are at the proper height to seat your bullet to the proper length you need.
BULLET LUBES if in a cookie in a revolver you should put a little more bees wax in the mix to bring up the melting temp because those cylinders get warm.

Doak
February 26, 2013, 10:35 PM
Hey boommer ~
Thanks fer the help. I do all that stuff ya said for my Sharps .50 - 2.5''. Except, the cookie, w/a barrier under it, very definitely goes atop the powder. Ya want the burning powder to vaporize the cookie lube, into the BP residue, thru-out the entire bore, especially the throat, where hard caking prevents chambering the next round. A card between the cookie & powder insulates the cookie enuff that it doesn't vaporize into the residue. I didn't figure this out myself. It comes from the best shooters, outa the best books on the subject. There hasta be a barrier between the cookie & powder...it just needs to be one that disintegrates instantly upon firing. I use this process in the Sharps, & it works extremely well.

So, thawt I'd try a variation of it in the ROA. Turns out it's easy to apply too much pressure to the loading lever, unlike having an adjustable bullet seating die in a press, that stops pushing the bullet beyond a certain point. And I prolly used too thick a cookie. It was an experiment, after all. I did learn tho, to not do that any more.

1 part bee's wax, 2 parts jojoba, has been workin' well in the Sharps. Not so much, in the ROA. :-D

Good point about the cylinder gettin' warm!

Patocazador
February 27, 2013, 06:09 AM
Doak,
That's only the 2nd misfire I've had with the 7 1/2 primers and Blackhorn out of more than 40 shots. The first one was due to oil contaminating the primer. I don't know what caused this one.

It taught me to me less nonchalant when shooting.

MCgunner
February 27, 2013, 08:57 AM
I don't do the Blackhorn thing, just too hard to ignite even in a 209 primed inline rifle.

Patocazador
February 27, 2013, 12:20 PM
I don't do the Blackhorn thing, just too hard to ignite even in a 209 primed inline rifle.
I never had a problem with ignition using a 209 primer. I use Blackhorn in my Savage ML-10 inline and my Sile Hawken Hunter sidelock with a Mag-Spark replacing the nipple. Never had a problem with either one and the accuracy and velocity are top-notch.

Doak
February 27, 2013, 10:40 PM
Patocazador,
Well, 2 misfires is 2 too many! It breaks the trust in the system...'n' that can worry-wear ya down. There's gotta be sumpin we can do to ensure reliability w/this dern Blackhorn in the ROA.

Maybe tamp a few flakes(start w/2 flakes, & work up) o' Bullseye, Red Dot, or Unique into the front o' the flash hole of the capsule, push 'em allaway back to the primer. Turn a small pistol/rifle primer into a large one? Figure out a way to test the tamp before actually loading up a chamber w/powder & bullet. Maybe shoot X-ring rubber bullets as a gauge of effect?

Guess I gotta get some o' this Blackhorn & try out some ideas.

Until this experiment w/a "cookie", ain't never had a capsule misfire w/BP, not that that's any help. :-D

Patocazador
February 28, 2013, 09:25 AM
Doak,
I have excellent accuracy with 30 gr. of 3FG (Goex) but hate the fouling and corrosiveness of BP. I tend to delay things I shouldn't and BlackHorn forgives me for that fault.
I have tried a 3-5 grain (by weight) starter charge of 4FG next to the nipple as an attempt to ignite BlackHorn with a #10 cap but got many non-fires and squibs. I've never tried any smokeless except Trail Boss as a one-time firing test but it didn't ignite with a percussion cap.
On the off chance that my bullet wasn't seated properly on the O.P. report, I am going to go through another cylinder full but with slightly compressed bullets to make sure they shave lead and seat and stay there. After that I may try the Unique/Bullseye experiment with a few flakes and see.
Good luck finding any BlackHorn 209 now with the buying rush as intense as it is.

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