Request from handgunlaw.us: look at open carry info?


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Derek Zeanah
February 27, 2013, 08:18 PM
Apparently lots of folks are contacting handgunlaw.us about open carry rules in their states, so the handgunlaw folks are trying to compile this information. Accurately.

If you're knowledgeable about the rules in your state, can you please download the attached PDF and look it over? It's 19 pages right now, but it's easy to find each state and it reads well.

The goal isn't to compile a PDF; rather they're looking for a quick fact-check before the information is published on the web.

Thanks, folks.

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Sergei Mosin
February 28, 2013, 08:28 PM
Nebraska looks accurate to me.

Bobson
February 28, 2013, 08:50 PM
Arizona's is accurate with one exception.

"When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying gets their attention."

ETA: I've only open carried a couple times, and have around police officers. Never gotten as much as a second look. And anyway, this must be entirely speculation, as written, and doesn't make much sense considering we're a Constitutional Carry state. Being such, simply openly carrying a gun anywhere lawful doesn't even create reasonable suspicion of a crime, which is necessary for a lawful stop.

Because of those points, I wouldn't include that statement.

joeschmoe
February 28, 2013, 08:52 PM
Law and reality are not the same when it comes to OC. In many cities the police simply make up their own interpretations of what they will allow, regardless of the actual law.

In Seattle for example, everyone knows OC is 100% legal. If you actually try it, the police will detain you, harass and threaten you. Even though the Police, city and state attorney's have repeatedly written that state law is clear; it is legal. They don't care.

Respect for the law is a 2 way street.

Gary Slider
February 28, 2013, 09:03 PM
Bobson, That is the same wording I used for every state. But you are correct. AZ and AK both would not think twice about seeing someone open carrying. WY is most likely getting to be the same way with their Constitutional Carry law now in effect for over a year and a half. I will remove it from both AK and AZ. Thank you for the input. That is exactly what I am looking for.

Bobson
February 28, 2013, 09:06 PM
Hey, you're welcome man. Thank you for all that you do to help people understand the law.

NavyLCDR
February 28, 2013, 09:36 PM
Washington needs some work:

"Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry in any vehicle in Washington."

You must have a valid permit/license to possess a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington. RCW 9.41.050

"This includes Cars, Ferries, Buses and Trains."

A Washington State Ferry in Washington State is not considered a vehicle. It is considered part of the highway system that carries vehicles. The CPL requirement applies to your personal vehicle on the ferry, but does not apply once you exit your vehicle on the ferry. For example, RCW 47.17.080:
RCW 47.17.080
State route No. 20.

A state highway to be known as state route number 20 is established as follows:

Beginning at a junction with state route number 101 in the vicinity of Discovery Bay, thence northeasterly via the most feasible route to Port Townsend; also

From the state ferry terminal at Port Townsend via the state ferry system northeasterly to the state ferry terminal at Keystone; also

From the Keystone ferry dock on Whidbey Island, thence northeasterly by the most feasible route by way of Deception Pass, Burlington, Sedro Woolley, Concrete, Newhalem, Winthrop, Twisp, Okanogan, Tonasket, Republic, Kettle Falls, Colville, and Tiger; thence southerly and southeasterly to a junction with state route number 2 at Newport.


"Washington State allows those with a CPL to carry in places that those who Open Carry are not allowed to Carry."

Absolutely false. There are places in Washington State where only those who possess a CPL are allowed to carry, openly or concealed. City owned stadiums and convention centers and school premises for example. RCW 9.41.300:
RCW 9.41.300
Weapons prohibited in certain places — Local laws and ordinances — Exceptions — Penalty.
(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:
(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060;

Notice, no mention of open or concealed carry. And RCW 9.41.280:
RCW 9.41.280
Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

(a) Any firearm;

(3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:
(e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070

Again, no mention of open or concealed carry.

"When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention."

This is more of an opinion, rather than a fact. In most communities the police are very aware that open carry is legal and will not hassle a person only for open carrying.

"Michigan has very active RKBA Orgs which have a lot of information."

Not applicable to Washington State.

Gary Slider
February 28, 2013, 10:27 PM
The Loaded Firearms in a vehicle without a valid permit/license is covered in the RV/Car Carry Section which I list for those to read on carrying in vehicles.

The part ""Washington State allows those with a CPL to carry in places that those who Open Carry are not allowed to Carry." Is correct as I was aiming at those open carrying without a permit/license. I have tried to come up with a header for the section other than "Open Carry"

I have thought about "Open Carry Without a Valid Permit/License" and may change it to that. That was my purpose as that is the question I get ask the most. "Can I Open Carry without a permit/license. Again that is why I am asking for feedback.

Yes open carrying may get the attention of Police Officers is an opinion but I put that in there to make sure they are aware of that. Every officer doesn't know the law even in the states that many open carry. Liked the part about the ferry being a road. I would have never seen that little nugget without your assistance.

So here is what I have for Washington Now. Your feedback on that would be very much appreciated. Also for the Michigan entry I list the two biggest Orgs to check with as they have a ton of info on them for Michigan. In MI those who open carry can carry in more places than those with a Permit/License can.

WASHINGTON (UPDATE)

Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry in any vehicle in Washington. This includes Cars, Buses and Trains. Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above apply to those who open carry. All School Property and Facilities used for school functions are off limits to those without a valid permit/license. Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances restricting the carrying of firearms without a valid permit/license in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality. When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention. See the “RV/Car Carry Without a Permit” section for more information on carrying in a vehicle.

The state preempts all firearm laws in the state and local authorities can’t have Laws/Ordinances against open carry except they can restrict certain places for those without a permit/license. It is up to you to know those local ordinances. Remember that if you enter any property and the owner/responsible person ask you to leave you must leave. Failure to leave can result in Trespass Charges. The Minimum age for Open Carry is 21.

This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state. Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check with this State's RKBA Organization/s. Michigan has very active RKBA Orgs which have a lot of information. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.

Again Feedback on being factual and wording is much appreciated.

NavyLCDR
February 28, 2013, 10:53 PM
WASHINGTON (UPDATE)

Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry in any vehicle in Washington.

The only thing I might suggest changing would be: you must have a valid permit/license to carry a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington.

The reason is that people who open carry without a license tend to carry the handgun outside the vehicle with a loaded magazine inserted in the gun but no round chambered (considered loaded by Washington law, even though not really in reality). When they enter the vehicle they just release the magazine and remove it from the gun. When they exit the vehicle, they just insert the magazine into the gun. That way, usually, they do not have to remove the gun from the holster.

It is not prohibited to open carry an unloaded handgun in a vehicle without a CPL - it just cannot be concealed on the person.

Gary Slider
February 28, 2013, 11:20 PM
That makes perfect sense if you have to get in and out. I am not a fan of carrying empty chamber but then sometimes you have to do what you have to do to stay within the law. New sentence added to first paragraph. Didn't need to post other paragraphs as there were no changes. Thank you for your assistance. That is the reason I posted this is to get feedback like this. What I really liked is you posted the Code which made it very simple and quick to confirm. Much Appreciated.

Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington. This includes Cars, Buses and Trains. You can keep the firearm holstered with empty chamber on your hip in your vehicle (can’t be concealed) but the loaded mag must be removed. Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above apply to those who open carry. All School Property and Facilities used for school functions are off limits to those without a valid permit/license. Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances restricting the carrying of firearms without a valid permit/license in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality. When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention. See the “RV/Car Carry Without a Permit” section for more information on carrying in a vehicle.

LevelHead
February 28, 2013, 11:29 PM
New Jersey is NOT a shall issue state.

Gary Slider
February 28, 2013, 11:36 PM
Blew that one didn't I. Again that is why I am looking for feedback to fix errors like that one I made. Thank you. Now I have to look at those other ones to make sure I didn't do that on another one.

Gary Slider
February 28, 2013, 11:40 PM
Had it wrong for Mass and Maryland also. That was a paragraph I used for many states and missed changing the Shall to May. Thank you again. Much Appreciated.

hermannr
March 5, 2013, 09:27 PM
Hej Gary! Thanks for getting into listing OC for us...

My I add to what Navy has stated about WA. I Open carried without a license for over 25 years...the only hangup is the loaded carry in a vehicle when you do not meet one of the exceptions.

There is No license needed for loaded carry in a vehicle, openly, or concealed if you meet an exception in RCW 9.41.060. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060

RCW 9.41.060 is important because this is the section that will cover the unlicensed person with a motorhome or other method of going camping that is on vacation here. Camping is one of several valid "outdoor recreational activity", and is in exception (8)

Contrary to what poster "joeschmoe" stated, OC is well accepted in WA, I have OC'd here since 1970, without a license prior to 1996, and have never had a problem or been hasseled...even in Seattle and Spokane.

If you are on foot, no license is necessary to OC at any time and anywhere not listed in RCW 9.41.300 http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

Also, an 18-21 year old may carry if they are hunting or fishing (with appropreate license) or Other activity as defined in RCW 9.41.060(6), (7), or (8)

Gary Slider
March 5, 2013, 09:42 PM
hermannr,

I made changes with info supplied by NavyLCDR. Below is what I have for WA now. I posted similar above but think I changed a few words. RCW9.41.060 is listed in the RV/Car Carry Section on the WA page at www.handgunlaw.us and my Open Carry listing directs people to read that section also. I don't want to make a page to long so keeping it short and simple. Feedback on what is below would be appreciated.

WASHINGTON Open Carry

Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington. This includes Cars, Buses and Trains. You can keep the firearm holstered with empty chamber on your hip in your vehicle (can’t be concealed) but the loaded mag must be removed. Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above apply to those who open carry. All School Property and Facilities used for school functions are off limits to those without a valid permit/license. Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances restricting the carrying of firearms without a valid permit/license in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality. When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention. See the “RV/Car Carry Without a Permit” section for more information on carrying in a vehicle.

The state preempts all firearm laws in the state and local authorities can’t have Laws/Ordinances against open carry except they can restrict certain places for those without a permit/license. It is up to you to know those local ordinances. Remember that if you enter any property and the owner/responsible person ask you to leave you must leave. Failure to leave can result in Trespass Charges. The Minimum age for Open Carry is 21.

This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state. Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check with this State's RKBA Organization/s. Michigan has very active RKBA Orgs which have a lot of information. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.

tyeo098
March 5, 2013, 10:05 PM
As for VA:
When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention. Open Carry is very common in Virginia.


These 2 statements contradict each other.

I have never been hassled even around my neck of the woods by DC in NoVa.

Gary Slider
March 5, 2013, 10:21 PM
The first sentence you quoted is in the template for all the state pages. I should remove that for VA. That is the reason I am seeking input. When collecting info things like this slip by and I don't even notice them as I read them so much. Fresh eyes see what mine don't. Thank You.

Gary Slider
March 5, 2013, 10:41 PM
tyeo098,

With your question I went to the VA page and noticed something I put in almost every states page listing last paragraph. I put this in all of them.

Michigan has very active RKBA Orgs which have a lot of information.

I figure when I was laying out each states page I copied the MI entry to make up the next state and didn't notice that line in the other states listed below MI. I have removed that. But looking with fresh eyes after about 5 days since I have viewed the file made the difference and I noticed that.

Attached is the newest copy of what I have for each state.

LemmyCaution
March 5, 2013, 11:06 PM
Gary-

The text for Vermont is correct, but like AZ, AK and WY, I'd strike the text about expecting contact with the police. Constitutional carry and state preemption have been settled case law here for over 100 years.

I have never had a problem, nor have I heard of anyone else being approached by law enforcement over open carry in a situation where it was legal in Vermont.

NavyLCDR
March 6, 2013, 09:22 AM
Joeschmoe, neither I nor my friends who open carry in Seattle have been detained or harassed by the police, including carrying in front of police at the recent anti gun really and open carrying in front of police while buying guns from sellers at Seattle's gun buyback. Your opinion greatly differs from reality.

rtroha
March 6, 2013, 11:40 AM
Ohio: In addition to licensees being able to carry a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle, they also can enter a class D liquor establishment legally as long as they don't consume. An unlicensed open carrier is committing a felony the moment he/she walks in the door.

zoom6zoom
March 6, 2013, 11:51 AM
Might want to fix this type under West Virginia:
In a vehicle the fireman must be in plain view

Gary Slider
March 6, 2013, 02:34 PM
zoom6zoom, In WV a loaded defensive firearm carried in a vehicle without any type of permit/license must be in plain view. It can't be concealed. In WV a permit only does one thing for you. It allows you to carry the firearm concealed.

Gregaw
March 6, 2013, 02:51 PM
In regards to Iowa, instead of saying there are "many restrictions", perhaps it would be clearer to state that the rules are exactly the same as concealed carry. The same permit to carry is required and the same laws apply. As far as I know there are no extra restrictions for open carry vs. concealed carry. I think the way it is written now doesn't make that clear.

The statement regarding the legal requirement to leave private property if asked to do so is a good thing to have in there. Although it applies to all situations, it is much more likely to occur when carrying openly, so I think that's a good warning.

Thanks for all your work on that site! I refer people to it all the time.

Gary Slider
March 6, 2013, 03:12 PM
Gregaw, This law is the one that I am looking at. It states you can't go armed inside the limits of any city and specifically mentions Open Carry. It does say except as otherwise provided int his section and that section is below is included in whole below. The way it reads you can't open carry inside a city in Iowa.

724.4 Carrying Weapons.
1. Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon concealed on or about the person, or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed with a pistol or revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or not, or who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or revolver, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.

724.4 Carrying weapons.
1. Except as otherwise provided in this section , a person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon concealed on or about the person, or who, within the limits of any city, goes armed with a pistol or revolver, or any loaded firearm of any kind, whether concealed or not, or who knowingly carries or transports in a vehicle a pistol or revolver, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
2. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person uses the knife in the commission of a crime, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
3. A person who goes armed with a knife concealed on or about the person, if the person does not use the knife in the commission of a crime:
a . If the knife has a blade exceeding eight inches in length, commits an aggravated misdemeanor.
b . If the knife has a blade exceeding five inches but not exceeding eight inches in length, commits a serious misdemeanor.
4. Subsections 1 through 3 do not apply to any of the following:
a . A person who goes armed with a dangerous weapon in the person’s own dwelling or place of business, or on land owned or possessed by the person.
b . A peace officer, when the officer’s duties require the person to carry such weapons.
c . A member of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or person in the service of the United States, when the weapons are carried in connection with the person’s duties as such.
d . A correctional officer, when the officer’s duties require, serving under the authority of the Iowa department of corrections.
e . A person who for any lawful purpose carries an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other dangerous weapon inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.
f . A person who for any lawful purpose carries or transports an unloaded pistol or revolver in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the pistol or revolver will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.
g . A person while the person is lawfully engaged in target practice on a range designed for that purpose or while actually engaged in lawful hunting.
h . A person who carries a knife used in hunting or fishing, while actually engaged in lawful hunting or fishing.
i . A person who has in the person’s possession and who displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the limits of that permit. A person shall not be convicted of a violation of this section if the person produces at the person’s trial a permit to carry weapons which was valid at the time of the alleged offense and which would have brought the person’s conduct within this exception if the permit had been produced at the time of the alleged offense.
j . A law enforcement officer from another state when the officer’s duties require the officer to carry the weapon and the officer is in this state for any of the following reasons:
(1) The extradition or other lawful removal of a prisoner from this state.
(2) Pursuit of a suspect in compliance with chapter 806 .
(3) Activities in the capacity of a law enforcement officer with the knowledge and consent of the chief of police of the city or the sheriff of the county in which the activities occur or of the commissioner of public safety.
k . A person engaged in the business of transporting prisoners under a contract with the Iowa department of corrections or a county sheriff, a similar agency from another state, or the federal government.
[S13, §4775-1a, -3a, -4a, -7a, -11a; C24, 27, 31, 35, 39, § 12936 – 12939; C46, 50, 54, 58, 62, 66, 71, 73, 75, 77, §695.2 – 695.5; C79, 81, §724.4]
83 Acts, ch 7, §2; 83 Acts, ch 96, §123, 159; 87 Acts, ch 13, §5; 88 Acts, ch 1164, §4; 98 Acts, ch 1131, §3

Gregaw
March 6, 2013, 03:39 PM
It also specifically mentioned concealed carry in that section. I think the point here is that section 'i" from below allows for open and concealed carry with the iowa permit.

"i. A person who has in the person’s possession and who displays to a peace officer on demand a valid permit to carry weapons which has been issued to the person, and whose conduct is within the limits of that permit. A person shall not be convicted of a violation of this section if the person produces at the person’s trial a permit to carry weapons which was valid at the time of the alleged offense and which would have brought the person’s conduct within this exception if the permit had been produced at the time of the alleged offense."

In Iowa it's a carry permit, not a concealed carry permit. I will see if I can find some more authoritative reference for open carry though and get back to you.

Gary Slider
March 6, 2013, 03:50 PM
Gregaw, That is one problem I have. The Title of the section. I am going to have to put

Open Carry Without a Permit/License.

That is what the section is about. That is the question I get all the time. I don't have a permit/license can I open carry.

You are correct if you have a valid permit/license to carry. Again I am going to have to make the header on this section Open Carry Without a Permit/License.

Gregaw
March 6, 2013, 04:07 PM
Ah, I understand now. Yes, you are 100% right then. I was thinking in terms of with a permit. I agree with the need for a title change then. Thanks again for doing this.

Gary Slider
March 6, 2013, 05:35 PM
Anyone what to give me your opinion on renaming the Section

"Open Carry Without A Valid Permit/License"

For those states that only allow open carry with a permit/license that is stated at the very beginning. Would that be the best Title? Any other suggestions/opinions on what to title it?

USAF_Vet
March 6, 2013, 06:49 PM
I would add the information regarding open carry without a license and open carry with a CPL. Under current law, those who have a CPL can open carry in pistol free zones, but cannot conceal carry (unless exempted from PFZs under MCL28.425o(4))

If you do not have a CPL, you cannot carry in any PFZ, but if you have a CPL, you can open carry in a PFZ, and if you have a CPL with exepmtions you can conceal carry even in PFZs.

PFZ exemptions are common only for law enforcement.

Gary Slider
March 6, 2013, 07:25 PM
USAF Vet,

Michigan was one reason (Thee are others) why I have been putting off adding this info for the last couple years. They are not the only state that has really different things for those who open carry and those who don't. Then having a permit/license changes everything and then other things. That is the reason I put this in the Michigan Entry:

Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above may not apply to those who open carry. (See state orgs for more information on places off limits when open carrying)

Then even put this note in the Michigan entry:

Note: Handgunlaw.us advises you to check out MI Open Carry and MCRGO for more detailed information.

To try and explain it all would take up pages. Another reason why I put in there to check Opencarry.org and their State RKBA's org as they usually have much more detailed information.

What I am going to add to MI is

......... (New Wording) Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above may not apply to those who open carry. Open Carrying with a valid permit/license or with no valid permit/license have differences on where you can carry and you can't carry and what mode of carry you must carry your defensive Firearm. (See state orgs for more information on places off limits when open carrying) ....(End New Wording)

Suggestions/opinions/Rants/Better word choice/s as I am not a writer on this wording? Again I don't have the space to go into great detail which was another reason I have been thinking about this for a couple years. I want to give a short synopsis and give them a place to go to hopefully find more detailed info.

blarby
March 6, 2013, 07:31 PM
Oregon looks spot on.

I cannot emphasize enough that someone wishing to travel through, or obtain licensure in Oregon is strongly recommended to contact their local sheriff, or sheriff of those areas being traveled through if that were the case.

Oregon is a strong, albeit fragmented state... I have spoken to sheriffs from Portland through the coast to my surrounding counties- Lynn, and Lane- and gotten substantially different answers as to the application and understanding of handgun law from each of them.

If you could attach such a disclaimer, you would not be amiss in doing so.

State law does indeed say one thing. Application has been...mixed at best.

Thanks again, Gary- for doing the hard labor that is so essential to our rights ( and maintaining and applying them) in our fractured republic.

If you find yourself up in the JC way- Beer is on me.

Gary Slider
March 12, 2013, 07:31 AM
Here is the newest edition of my research. Comments/Suggestions/Corrections are wanted.

Gary Slider
March 12, 2013, 07:40 AM
hermannr,

I missed adding a sec to WA. This is in the newest edition for Washington:

RCW 9.41.060 Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
(8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area; (So if engaged in any of these activities you can open carry.)

powell&hyde
March 12, 2013, 07:46 AM
I have an ia permit and it allows open or concealed carry. Here is a link from the state that has faq answered.

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/asd/weapons/SF2379_FAQ.pdf

brboyer
March 12, 2013, 11:23 PM
Gary,
For Florida, we have exceptions to 790.053 listed in 790.25(3)
(3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:

So it is perfectly legal for anyone 18 or older (not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms by State or Federal law) to openly carry a firearm in certain locations/situations. There are quite a few, but the ones most applicable to us 'common' folks are:

(g) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive weapons from the United States or from this state, or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for target, skeet, or trap shooting, while at or going to or from shooting practice; or regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for modern or antique firearms collecting, while such members are at or going to or from their collectors’ gun shows, conventions, or exhibits;

(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

(j) A person firing weapons for testing or target practice under safe conditions and in a safe place not prohibited by law or going to or from such place;

(k) A person firing weapons in a safe and secure indoor range for testing and target practice;

(n) A person possessing arms at his or her home or place of business;

Gary Slider
March 13, 2013, 06:45 AM
Looking at FL instead of putting all that wording in there I am going to add this line.

See 790.25 for some instances when Open Carry may be legal. 

I am not trying to have everything and since Open Carry is technically not legal in FL but in some instances you can open carry that will let them read it for themselves. 790.25 will be a link to that section of the FL Code.

Thank you for pointing that out.

janedoedad
March 15, 2013, 12:27 AM
Georgia
Open Carry
Open Carry is legal in Georgia but you must have a valid Carry Permit/License to Open Carry. In cities of any size I am hearing it is very rare. Even in rural areas it is not a common practice. Places as listed in the “Places Off Limits” above apply to those who open carry. When open carrying, be prepared for Police Officers to question you as open carrying firearm gets their attention. See the “RV/Car Carry Without a Permit” section for carrying in a


Georgia is an "Open Carry" state. A Georgia weapons License is required to carry a handgun on your person. The laws (OCGA) makes no difference between open or concealed carry. A permit is not required for a long gun so long as the long gun is carried in fully exposed manner if loaded.

Off-limits areas apply to open or concealed carry.

"No firearms" signs have no legal weight, but if you refuse to leave upon being asked to, you may be arrested for criminal trespass.

Open carry is common in Georgia, even in the urban areas.

Gary Slider
March 15, 2013, 06:19 AM
Both sources I referenced both stated is was rare in the urban areas and not common in the rural areas. Will check further. Thank you.

janedoedad
March 15, 2013, 10:13 AM
Let me add that rare and common are subjective terms. :cool:

Georgia has one of the higher percentage per capita of licensed carriers in the country. With that and state premption of local laws, you will see more open carriers here than in locale where local government has a say.

YMMV

You are doing g great job with the report, keep up the good work!!

Gary Slider
March 18, 2013, 11:28 AM
Janedoedad, Am removing the reference to Rare and not common in the GA entry.

I am also adding this link to the Michigan entry. I already have it on the Michigan page but it gives very good information and is from the MI State Police so will add it again in the Open Carry Section.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/MSP_Legal_Update_No._86_2_336854_7.pdf

Still a good ways away from adding this information. Hoping for more feedback. May try to post this on another board like it is posted on THR. That may get different people seeing it and more chances for feedback. Derek has been a good friend of Handgunlaw.us and has assisted me often in seeking information and even posting PSA's on THA for Handgunlaw.us. I want to Thank Derek and THR for all their assistance.

zoom6zoom
March 18, 2013, 11:48 AM
zoom6zoom, In WV a loaded defensive firearm carried in a vehicle without any type of permit/license must be in plain view. It can't be concealed. In WV a permit only does one thing for you. It allows you to carry the firearm concealed.
Agreed. But your text says fireman, not firearm.

Gary Slider
March 18, 2013, 12:42 PM
zoom6zoom, HA HA, Spell check won't catch that. That is why I am seeking feedback. Little things like that make a huge difference. Better to catch them here and not after I post them. But it shouldn't be firearm for WV. I changed it to Defensive Handgun. In WV you can't carry any type of HUNTING gun loaded in a vehicle even if you have a permit/license to carry. Only a defensive handgun can be carried and if you don't have a permit/license to carry it must be in plain view. I tell my students to not carry anything over a five inch barrel as Defensive Handgun is not defined in WV law. I even tell them that if a scope is mounted on the Handgun most would consider that a hunting gun and not a defensive handgun. Thanks for pointing out my Spelling/Grammar error. Much Appreciated!

Prophet
March 18, 2013, 01:06 PM
PA is correct. It would be nice to see some info pertaining to the Sportsman's Firearms Permit, which allows those between the ages of 18-21 transport any legal firearm unloaded to and from the place they wish to hunt or fish for the purpose of carrying. The disclaimer for LEO is accurate, but it would be nice to also see something along the lines of "do not rely on the opinion of local LEO as their understanding of OC and other carry laws in PA may vary", as has been the case for me on a number of occasions. On one occasion my dad was told that he could be charged for child endangerment if he gifted a handgun to me (I was 18 at the time). On another occasion I had my lawyer at the time's secretary contact the state police department concerning OC at 18 and she was told that OC was not legal until 21.

Gary Slider
March 18, 2013, 01:15 PM
Prophet,

PA law allows those 18 and over to possess and transport a firearm like you stated.

§ 6110.1. Possession of firearm by minor.
(a) Firearm.--Except as provided in subsection (b), a person
under 18 years of age shall not possess or transport a firearm
anywhere in this Commonwealth. (b) Exception.--Subsection (a) shall not apply to a person
under 18 years of age:
(1) who is under the supervision of a parent,
grandparent, legal guardian or an adult acting with the
expressed consent of the minor's custodial parent or legal
guardian and the minor is engaged in lawful activity,
including safety training, lawful target shooting, engaging
in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm
or the firearm is unloaded and the minor is transporting it
for a lawful purpose; or
(2) who is lawfully hunting or trapping in accordance
with 34 Pa.C.S. (relating to game). (c) Responsibility of adult.--Any person who knowingly and
intentionally delivers or provides to the minor a firearm in
violation of subsection (a) commits a felony of the third
degree. (d) Forfeiture.--Any firearm in the possession of a person
under 18 years of age in violation of this section shall be
promptly seized by the arresting law enforcement officer and
upon conviction or adjudication of delinquency shall be
forfeited or, if stolen, returned to the lawful owner.
(June 13, 1995, 1st Sp.Sess., P.L.1024, No.17, eff. 120 days;
Nov. 22, 1995, P.L.621, No.66, eff. imd.)

Prophet
March 18, 2013, 01:20 PM
Gary, does that apply to transport in a motor vehicle? If not then I'm having difficulty understanding the purpose of SFP availability.

Gary Slider
March 18, 2013, 01:25 PM
If you are going to a target range to shoot an 18 Y/O can transport it unloaded and secured. If they are going hunting then the same but they would have to have a hunting license. If they have a handgun and are hunting with it they would have to have the pistol license that you need in PA to hunt with a pistol. (This is not a license to carry but a license to hunt with a handgun.) But at 18 you can possess and transport an unloaded and secured firearm to a place to shoot or hunt etc.

Gary Slider
March 18, 2013, 01:36 PM
The hunting part is where the catch is. The hunting regs state to carry a firearm. They don't say Handgun or long gun but firearm and you are hunting or fishing you have to have a Sportsman's Firearm Permit if you wish to open carry. Looks to me like the state Is just trying to make money from the hunters and fisherman. So if you are hunting or fishing you have to have a Sportsman Firearm Permit in PA. But to just go to the range and shoot or transport a secured firearm to your own property in the country to shoot you just have to be 18.



From the PA State Police FAQ's
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=512&objID=4451&&PageID=462424&level=2&css=L2&mode=2
Who can apply for a Sportsman’s Firearm Permit?

An individual who is age 18 or older and is licensed to hunt, trap or fish, or who has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, may apply for a Sportsman's Firearm Permit by submitting a completed application along with the required fee to the county treasurer's office. The permit shall be issued immediately and be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years from the date of issue for any "legal firearm", when carried in conjunction with a valid hunting, furtaking or fishing license, or permit relating to hunting dogs. The issuances of a Sportsman’s Firearm Permit allows the individual to carry a firearm if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers, fishing or training dogs, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers, fish, or train dogs during the regular training season, or returning from such places. A Sportsman's Firearm Permit is NOT a License to Carry a firearm concealed.

Gary Slider
March 18, 2013, 02:20 PM
Now I have it. If you get the Sportsman's Firearm Permit and you are hunting, fishing, trapping or training dogs you can carry a Concealed handgun while actually hunting, fishing, trapping or training dogs. It states while going to or from the activities but the law on carrying in vehicles overrides that so it has to be unloaded while transporting. So to just transport a firearm in a vehicle without any type permit/license you must be 18 and the firearm has to be unloaded and secured.

Gary Slider
March 18, 2013, 02:33 PM
I am also running into another problem. In some states there are places that are legal to carry with a valid permit/license that open carry is forbidden. Then you have Michigan where open carry is allowed in places that those with a valid permit/license can't carry. The MI part doesn't bother me to much but the part where open carry is not legal where those with a valid permit/license it is legal. I am thinking of adding this sentence to the last paragraph in most of the listings. Feedback on this addition would be appreciated.
This is the last paragraph in most state listings. The bold part is the sentence I want to add:
_____________________
This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state. In some states Open Carry is forbidden in places where those with a valid permit/license can carry. Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check with this State's RKBA Organization/s. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.
___________________________

If the bold didn't work in the above paragraph I will split it up here to show you what I want to add
______________________
This is not the last word on Open Carry in this state.

(This sentence to be added) In some states Open Carry is forbidden in places where those with a valid permit/license can carry. (End of added Sentence)

Check at www.opencarry.org or go to Google and type in State Name Open Carry or Open Carry State Name for a search for open carry info in this state. Check with this State's RKBA Organization/s. Also see “Attorney General Opinions/Court Cases” Section for any written opinions/Cases on Open Carry.

Prophet
March 18, 2013, 02:48 PM
Now I have it. If you get the Sportsman's Firearm Permit and you are hunting, fishing, trapping or training dogs you can carry a Concealed handgun while actually hunting, fishing, trapping or training dogs. It states while going to or from the activities but the law on carrying in vehicles overrides that so it has to be unloaded while transporting.

That is what I was getting at. There is a lot of confusion out there concerning the whole thing. Those of us between the ages of 18-21 are disenfranchised often in this state because rather than trying to sort through and understand the confusion LEO, FFLs etc. often just go with what they've been told or their personal opinion. Thanks for your research and for making this available! I've always wanted a quick, easy and verifiable resource to point interested individuals to, what you're working on seems to fit the bill quite nicely.

brboyer
March 19, 2013, 06:43 PM
Looking at FL instead of putting all that wording in there I am going to add this line.

See 790.25 for some instances when Open Carry may be legal. 

I am not trying to have everything and since Open Carry is technically not legal in FL but in some instances you can open carry that will let them read it for themselves. 790.25 will be a link to that section of the FL Code.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Well, if you want to get 'technical'.... concealed carry is also not legal in Florida. :scrutiny:





:D

Gary Slider
March 19, 2013, 07:32 PM
Open Carry is not legal in FL even with a permit/license to Carry which is the info I am trying to provide. Concealed carry is legal in FL with a Valid Permit/License to Carry.

brboyer
March 19, 2013, 09:18 PM
Open Carry is not legal in FL even with a permit/license to Carry which is the info I am trying to provide. Concealed carry is legal in FL with a Valid Permit/License to Carry.
I was mostly joking.... but Open Carry is perfectly legal in certain situations, just like concealed carry is legal in certain situations (one of which is a CWFL.)

NashvilleCat
March 24, 2013, 09:08 PM
Open Carry is legal but you must have a valid permit/license to carry a loaded handgun in any vehicle in Washington. This includes Cars, Buses and Trains. You can keep the firearm holstered with empty chamber on your hip in your vehicle (can’t be concealed) but the loaded mag must be removed.

I don't know if my anecdote relates to this specific law, but Washington seems to have some strange ones. I grew up there and spent much of my youth in my friend's dad's gun store and learned much of my knowledge from standing around, listening to the old guys talk. That said, I have no idea if this or any other "knowledge" I gained was accurate.

I was told that the confusing Washington laws had to do with deer hunting -- that laws were created one piece at a time as people would push the limits while hunting -- and the many laws were created as band-aids. Supposedly, hunters would drive around with loaded rifles, using their headlights to spotlight animals -- then they'd hop out and get it, supposedly not violating laws (because the rifles were supposedly covered by their carry permits). As the story goes, little band-aid laws were gradually created to keep hunters from these loopholes. New law, new loophole. Until the law eventually became so nutty that no one could really function. Some variations of the loopholes involved loaded rifles in the back (outside of the cab).

I can't totally believe this, but some old guy from Benton County told me it was true, so it must be.

Derek Zeanah
April 3, 2013, 09:25 AM
It looks like this one's run its course.

Thanks, folks.

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