Hilarious and yet scary ignorant gun comment


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DigMe
March 12, 2004, 12:50 AM
Over on another gun board there was a guy asking what ammo he should carry in his sidearm for his new job as an armored truck guard.

One of the posters (among some other very ignorant things) had the following recommendation:

If you have to have a first-shot knock-down, go with a Thompson Center Contender with a .410 shotgun barrel. It only shoots once before reloading, but a hit is going to get you a knock-down.

A single-shot .410 as a defensive sidearm?! OMG! This was icing on a heaping doodoo cake of other ridiculous statements.

brad cook

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Preacherman
March 12, 2004, 12:51 AM
Please tell us the name of the other board (so that I know which board to avoid!)...

Greg L
March 12, 2004, 12:53 AM
He wasn't suggesting taking .308 rounds to the back as a covering position for his partner also was he?

PATH
March 12, 2004, 01:34 AM
Oh Boy! Is this another chapter in the continuing saga of the "Tactically Correct Mall Ninja"?:D

Please tell us where we may find this thread. I sure could use a good chuckle!:D

Don Gwinn
March 12, 2004, 01:34 AM
With enough duct tape, all things are possible.

jsalcedo
March 12, 2004, 01:45 AM
I've shot the .410 slugs and 000 buck (three pellets)

The stuff is pretty anemic even out of an 18 inch barrel.

Maybe a Chrome AK with da switch?

Frohickey
March 12, 2004, 02:08 AM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

KNOCK-DOWN! BWAHAHAHAHA!!!

About the only thing that is guaranteed a knockdown would be a 3 inch diameter projectile. If its going close to 100MPH, its known to have knocked down plenty of fit and trim athletes. If its going close to 700MPH, you can almost guarantee a disabling hit, maybe even a fatal one.

marklbucla
March 12, 2004, 02:10 AM
If you think a .410 is such a weak round, would you care to stand down range and have me shoot at you?

This seems to always come up, so I figured I may as well be the first to say it in this thread.

jsalcedo
March 12, 2004, 02:27 AM
If you think a .410 is such a weak round, would you care to stand down range and have me shoot at you?

Hold on let me get my duct tape, trauma plates and my H&R handi rifle in
600 nitro express

Josey
March 12, 2004, 03:19 AM
That sounds like a guy that told a different armed security guard to get a 454 Casull. The problem was that the security guard said in his intro that his state limited him to a 38 Special in revolver.

joab
March 12, 2004, 03:27 AM
If you think a .410 is such a weak round, would you care to stand down range and have me shoot at you?
I've got a Crossman .22 CO2 pellet gun. Who wants to stand downrange of that just to prove it wont kill them?
Alternate answer-- Only if I can shoot back with a gun designed for defensive use

DigMe
March 12, 2004, 08:46 AM
Ok guys if you really must know here it is. (http://www.packing.org/talk/thread.jsp/22712/).

Ya know I've liked the community in general at packing.org but for about the last 4 to 5 months I've seen a lot more of this kind of ridiculous ignorance. It seems like a lot of people who are new to shooting or guns just go there and think they're experts. Either that or there are a few new trollish types there as well. It's been kind of depressing to see that site degrade. Anyway...the comment I first posted is just the tip of the stupidity iceberg for the user named "Cracker."

Here's the post in it's entirety:


About the most frequently-used 9mm round in the LEO community is the Federal 124 gr. HydroShock +P+. This round will get through a barrier (unlike pre-fragmented and frangible slugs)but won't "over-penetrate" and do a through-and-through very often. It produces a very serviceable combination of penetration and wound cavity. As far as putting a BG on the ground, one 9mm round isn't likely to do it unless you either get a kill or break a leg with that first shot. The max kinetic energy a 9mm round is going to be carrying at impact is about 500 foot-pounds. It takes close to 1000 to put a man on the ground from sheer blunt-force. If you have to have a first-shot knock-down, go with a Thompson Center Contender with a .410 shotgun barrel. It only shoots once before reloading, but a hit is going to get you a knock-down. With the 9mm (in the words of my CCW trainer), "If it's worth shooting once it's worth shooting twice and you keep shooting until the threat stops." Regarding practice ammo, the previous posts are right - Winchester White-box 100 round value pack's are the way to go. I've put 900 rounds of it through my CZ 75 PCR without a single FTF, FTE, or "squib" round. This stuff also seems to burn cleaner than a lot of other "cheap" ammo.


brad cook

fslflint
March 12, 2004, 08:46 AM
just to prove that I am not armed, just lay on the ground and let me kick you! thats a good defensive stategie, just kick them. well, thats not enough power. if its sucha weak kick then just lay on the ground and let me kick you. ...that is a really dumb argument.

Ironbarr
March 12, 2004, 09:16 AM
Armored truck?

How often does one perp get to take on the crew of an AT? Thus, if more perp-etry is required (and probable), a single-loader is about useless - unless they are all aligned nicely and some other meta-forces are in place.

.410? - Standing down-bang of any firestick is apt to be a bit tedious.

eoR
March 12, 2004, 11:00 AM
ummm... I think that this was done sorta 'tongue in cheek' in response to the original posters "Something that will put a man down"

Mulliga
March 12, 2004, 12:22 PM
Several ill-informed conceptions...

900 to 1000 ft-lbs is a pretty common "knockdown" number for deer. I suppose you could extrapolate this to human beings, but that's dicey.

Reducing everything to foot-pounds is counterproductive. The object isn't to physically flatten attackers to the ground (you'd probably be better off throwing big boulders than shooting guns if this is your aim) but to destroy their CNS and/or cause enough tissue disruption or blood loss that they cannot return the favor.

While no bullet is 100% magically effective (I'm sure there are some (un)lucky souls who survived being shot at point blank range with .44 Magnum rounds), I think we can all agree that a 9mm +P+ hollowpoint will mostly likely kill an average human being if you hit them in a vital area. Two or three well-aimed shots will almost certainly do the job.

Never checked out Packing.org. THR takes up all my time.

DigMe
March 12, 2004, 12:58 PM
Reducing everything to foot-pounds is counterproductive. The object isn't to physically flatten attackers to the ground (you'd probably be better off throwing big boulders than shooting guns if this is your aim) but to destroy their CNS and/or cause enough tissue disruption or blood loss that they cannot return the favor.

Yeah, we know this...that's part of why the post is ignorant.

Packing.org has an awesome database of concealed carry laws for every state in the country. However, as you can see, the message board has its problems.

brad cook

DigMe
March 12, 2004, 12:59 PM
ummm... I think that this was done sorta 'tongue in cheek' in response to the original posters "Something that will put a man down"

I don't know...the .410 part might possibly have been tongue in cheek but given the ignorance of the rest of his post as well I'd guess not.

brad cook

PATH
March 12, 2004, 01:02 PM
That truly was good for a chuckle!:D Will our armored guard now be guided in the fashion he should dress? Black BDU's and lots of body armor are the next suggestions. Don't forget the little itty bitty back up pistol and the utility belt that rivals that of Bat Man!:D

I really love this stuff! Geez! I needed that laugh. Thank You!!!:D

P95Carry
March 12, 2004, 01:05 PM
for the user named "Cracker." Mustn't be too mindful of ''stereotyping'' or ''profiling'' but that nick doesn't exactly help in the credibility stakes.!:rolleyes: :p

McNutt
March 12, 2004, 01:06 PM
Maybe he was talking about the Thompson with the new stinkspray attachment.

dfariswheel
March 12, 2004, 02:40 PM
This is nothing new. I've caught gun shop employees trying to sell the following few examples from many I've sen.

As I walked in the store a wealthy woman I knew was being sold a S&W 44 Magnum with a 8 3/8" barrel as appropriate as a home defense gun.
(The Magnum was a counter Queen that wouldn't sell.)

A new inexperienced cop wanted a small pistol for off-duty that would be easy to carry and conceal. The owner was attaching a ring to the butt of a cheap .25 automatic, so the cop could attach it to his key ring, per the shop owner's recommendation.

A new hunter friend of mine was sold a Winchester .338 Magnum rifle to hunt deer in St Genevieve county Missouri. In the area he was planning to hunt, it's so heavily wooded, you can't get a shot farther than 50 yards.

A man was sold a weird, cheap tubular slam-fire shotgun based on the WWII Philippine guerrilla jungle-made gun. He wanted a shotgun to hunt squirrels.
He asked me why he wasn't able to hit the little tree rats!

A gentleman I knew needed a gun to keep in his pickup truck after almost being robbed on the road of the payroll he carried.
A "friend" of his sold him a cheap single barrel shotgun, and told him to cut off the stock, and to cut the barrel off just in front of the hand guard at about 12".
Fortunately, he asked me to do the cutting.

A man needed a pistol to protect large bank deposits from a super market.
Some clown suggested a .22 automatic, assuring him that "You can shoot somebody 10 times, even if you're on your way down".
The old and badly battered auto wouldn't fire 2 shots without jamming.

Bottom line: People who are beginners and don't know guns get sold a lot of crap by people who have no sense or morals.

Shmackey
March 13, 2004, 12:38 AM
For the record, a .410 packs a larger punch than a 10mm auto cartridge. That guy was obviously a dumbass, but let's not compare a shotgun shell to a BB.

gunsmith
March 13, 2004, 04:02 AM
My company prohibits use of corbon,fed hydra-shoks ,"black talons"
and a whole bunch of others,we are only to use remington golden saber,I use a .40s&w Glock model 22. I guess the gold rem's aint that bad.
No back up pistols under CA law...

whm1974
March 13, 2004, 07:38 AM
A "friend" of his sold him a cheap single barrel shotgun, and told him to cut off the stock, and to cut the barrel off just in front of the hand guard at about 12".
Fortunately, he asked me to do the cutting.

Sounds like the "friend" was trying to get him in trouble. If he did this and had to use it he could have gotting in more legal trouble then the prep who tryed to rob him.

Bill Meadows

Lagadelphia
March 13, 2004, 10:43 AM
PATH wrote: Will our armored guard now be guided in the fashion he should dress? Black BDU's and lots of body armor are the next suggestions

I am soon to become an armored courier, and while I agree that black BDU's or any BDU's for that matter would have a nacho factor, I don't think body armor does. I feel that if someone is going to hit an armored car, they are more than likely to bring something abit stronger than a Jennings .380. Even if they brought a .380, I still don't want to take one :)

Holiday
March 13, 2004, 03:23 PM
Personally, I want to see some of that "500 foot pound" 9MM ammo! Heck, my .45 only produces about 385!! 1000 lbs to stop someone? Heck, better rearm with a .44 mag, my "small" stuff ain't gonna work!

GunWares
March 13, 2004, 04:11 PM
The max kinetic energy a 9mm round is going to be carrying at impact is about 500 foot-pounds. It takes close to 1000 to put a man on the ground from sheer blunt-force.

Clearly what this guy needs is a double-barrel 9mm carbine. :rolleyes:

SAG0282
March 13, 2004, 05:02 PM
*shakes head and chuckles*

Seriously, where do people get this stuff?

BarnsBeware
March 13, 2004, 07:59 PM
I started out on Packing. Good source of links and news, (for those unaware of THR).

Stay out of the forums though, and don't encourage them with logic.:uhoh:
:banghead:Almost 99% tin-foilers and "Counter Strike"/paint-baller types. Nice site. Useless forum. Stay here.

Holiday
March 14, 2004, 01:12 PM
I agree about the good info from the site. I have used it several times to research carry laws in my state and in surrounding states. But it appears the forums may lack a little. Of course, this is just one thread. That is very little to judge a forum on, but it would look like SOMEONE would have voiced a reasonable opinion.

Tom Servo
December 14, 2004, 07:21 PM
I thought armored-car guys were issued weapons. I work with Brinks on a daily basis, and the drivers have no choice in what they carry. Until a few months ago, most of them carried 38s. Now they've got Taurus(es), and some kind of rifle in the truck.

Funny thing is, alot of folks give those guys flak, but I've been to the aftermath of an attempted robbery, and those guys know how to handle themselves, even with limited hardware.

Wayne D
December 14, 2004, 08:42 PM
The max kinetic energy a 9mm round is going to be carrying at impact is about 500 foot-pounds. It takes close to 1000 to put a man on the ground from sheer blunt-force.

I believe he's thinking about the double barrelled boom stick from S-Mart.

"Shop smart, shop S-Mart!"

R.H. Lee
December 14, 2004, 09:16 PM
For the well dressed armored car man. Guaranteed to put a man down. You can wear it in a thigh rig.
http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/images/firearmImages/1895GS.jpg

Onmilo
December 14, 2004, 10:15 PM
Our local Brinks drivers/guards are Company issued .38 special Smith and Wesson Model 10, 4" heavy barrel and Ruger Service Six 4" .38 special revolvers loaded with Winchester .38 special 158 grain lead hollow point +P ammunition and God help the guard who is found with anything else.

Warren
December 15, 2004, 03:20 AM
I am soon to become an armored courier, and while I agree that black BDU's or any BDU's for that matter would have a nacho factor

I don't usually crack on misspellings and things like that but c'mon I don't care who you are that right there was funny.

cracked butt
December 15, 2004, 04:16 AM
Well at least he didn't reccommend a deagle. :rolleyes:

Archangel
December 15, 2004, 10:00 AM
I was wondering what BDU's had to do with nachos...

And not to pick on anyone's grammar, but when I read this:

A man needed a pistol to protect large bank deposits from a super market.

All I could think was, "Man, that must be one vicious super market." ;)

DigMe
December 15, 2004, 10:08 AM
Mmmm...nachos.... *drool*

brad cook

ny32182
December 15, 2004, 10:31 AM
Personally, I want to see some of that "500 foot pound" 9MM ammo! Heck, my .45 only produces about 385!! 1000 lbs to stop someone? Heck, better rearm with a .44 mag, my "small" stuff ain't gonna work!

Corbon 124gr @ 1250fps = 430ft/lb.... not quite 500, but not all 9mm is created equal.

Okiecruffler
December 15, 2004, 04:44 PM
Dad used to carry a .410 T/C all the time for protection and had to use it several times with great success and plenty of knock down power...

Of course he was using it on snakes while fishing, and snakes are kinda, by design, already knocked down. But they're sneaky critters, they may just try to rob an armoured car.

Dad also had a 10 inch .444Marlin T/C barrel and I'll bet it would work for defense. Danged thing did great injury to anyone in ear shot of it, especially the shooter. :eek:

Sean85746
December 16, 2004, 09:46 AM
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Please stop saying "perp".

If I promise never to date your sister or daughter, or even steal your dog...will you all stop saying PERP?

Please?

They are: Subjects, Suspects, Actor, never EVER PERP!

Dang, I wish Cagney & Lacey never woulda been on TV. I don't even know any NYPD cops that call them PERPS!

Zach S
December 16, 2004, 10:32 AM
Sean, my sister is 11 years old, you're gonna have to wait several years. I dont have any kids (well, not that I know of), even if I did, you'd have to wait several more years before you could date my daughter. Besides, if my older sister is single (she might be, I havent spoke to her in a few years) I wouldn't have a problem with her dating most highroaders, but your wife might have a problem with you dating my sister...

As for the dog, she's my little brother's. You'd have to take it up with him. I wouldnt mind though.

That said, I'd hate to be a perp facing a single-shot .410. I would feel the urge to laugh hystericly, but I dont think I would actually do so. Then again, I wonder how the AT guard would react to my laughter, maybe it would puzzle him long enough for me to make a getaway...

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