I'm not a brand basher, BUT.......


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Arkansas Paul
February 28, 2013, 11:43 PM
Like the title says, I usually don't bash brands. I've had some experience with brands like Hi Point and have found them to be quiet large and ugly, but very much serviceable.

However, this past Sunday evening, I was at my concealed carry class and we get out to the shooting part. Now this gentleman had sat across from me in class and seemed knowledgeable enough, so I was surprised when he pulled a Lorcin .380 from a case and proceeded to load it. Again, I'm not a basher. :)

Well, we are told to load six rounds and we're going to shoot them as a practice run so those of us who don't shoot often will shake off the rust and get rid of any nervousness. There are six of us on the line, and upon being given the command, we all fire until empty from 7 yds.

Well, all of us but the Lorcin guy. He fired once, cleared a jam, fired again, cleared another jam, fired the third time, and cleared the sixth round.

We fired three strings of six that afternoon, and he never one time fired two shots consecutively without a jam. I am not exaggerating. He didn't have a failure to fire at all, but it never reliably fed a single round. I don't know if it was his magazine, lack of lubrication, or just a $50 paperweight for a gun. He then confessed that the gun had not been out of the case for nearly three years. Me and the guy next to me casually spoke of how we hoped the poor guy wasn't going to be trusting his life to that weapon.

We went back inside and while we were being fingerprinted, the instructor very adamantly stressed reliability when choosing a concealed carry weapon.

Anyway, just thought I'd share my wonderful experience at my CHL class. It was fun overall. I'll tell you, there were four ladies, and two of them could shoot as well as any man there.

I was wondering if anyone else saw anything weird or funny regarding different weapons people brought to your CHL class?

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tarosean
February 28, 2013, 11:58 PM
I just renewed last weekend.. Not sure what the entire class brought as we were in groups and had to leave our weapons in the car.. However two kimbers, keeled over on my line and a senior (86!!!!) couldn't work the action in her Jframe due to arthritis..

Women outnumbered men and there were 4 school superintendents taking the class.. Interesting I thought.

Arkansas Paul
March 1, 2013, 12:05 AM
Women outnumbered men and there were 4 school superintendents taking the class

Funny you should mention that. My daughter's school superintendent is the president of our range and helped teach the course. Cause that's how we do it out in the sticks.

tarosean
March 1, 2013, 12:15 AM
I'm in the "sticks" too..

barneyrw
March 1, 2013, 01:15 AM
In Florida, I guess we're lucky, if you have a DD-214 form that shows you were in the military at some time, you don't have to take any CHL class. Just get finger printed and submit the paperwork.

ColtPythonElite
March 1, 2013, 01:17 AM
I would gladly bash a Lorcin.......with a hammer.:D

bannockburn
March 1, 2013, 06:16 AM
I think our CCW class size had about seven or eight peple in it. My two friends and myself brought some sort of M1911 variant. There was also a young man who was using a Glock 19, an older couple who shared a Beretta .32 and a young woman who had a Beretta Model 21. Everyone did fine with their respective guns of choice except for the young lady with the .22 Beretta. Apparently she know nothing about guns and her boyfriend bought her the .22 because it was small and easily concealed.

The problem was that the Beretta jammed like every other shot and we had to stop and wait while the instructor went over to help her. I think there was also some confusion on her part with how the gun operated as she had difficulty racking the slide but at the same time wasn't sure how to use the tip-up barrel. Eventually he had her use one of his guns that he had brought along but I'm not sure if she qualified with one of those or not.

RUT
March 1, 2013, 07:52 AM
>>if you have a DD-214 form that shows you were in the military at some time, you don't have to take any CHL class<<

Even if you were in the Air Force?? :p

kBob
March 1, 2013, 08:31 AM
DD 214 is a concern and some have pointed out that USAF and USN in the past did very little firearms training.

Actually I am more concerned about the "schools" conducted at gunshows. On the one hand I think the right to keep and bear arms is just that, a right.

On the other hand we do liscense folks in FLorida.

For several years my old, now defunct gunclub, taught the old NRA Personal Protection Course for the cost of the materials. This course was twelve hours long and the "legal" section where we covered use of deadly force and laws about carrying and storage took up three hours by itself. This was taught by a member of the Bar and not Joe Gun Nut. Our shooting session ran three hours and took some 40-60 rounds of live ammunition (not Speer Plastic bullets) at ranges of seven and twelve yards. Before the student got to the range part of the three hour block on operation , maintenance, and storage three hour block was spent being sure the student was very familure with their own fiream AND OTHER TYPES thy might later buy. So if someone brought a Beretta 21A (and several did) they also learned about swing out cylinder DA revolvers and basic semi auto skills. The also were shown good examples of bad examples, like that lorincin and RG DA revolvers so they would know what to stear away from. WHen we saw that folks had something that tended to be ammo sensitive, like a Beretta 21A, we brought out spare ammo of different types and brands.

Our club provided the room , NRA Certified instructors, training aids, and range time and not one instructor, AI, or range officer got so much as a dime for the work.

Yet folks make a living doing two to three hours of "instruction" at gunshows....

I feel a person SHOULD look for that type of training rather than a two or three hour single session at a gunshow, but I would hate to see that made law.

Am I making any sense here?

-kBob

ClickClickD'oh
March 1, 2013, 08:43 AM
Now this gentleman had sat across from me in class and seemed knowledgeable enough, so I was surprised when he pulled a Lorcin .380 from a case and proceeded to load it. Again, I'm not a basher.

It's not bashing if you are talking about a ring of fire gun. That's just stating facts.

460Kodiak
March 1, 2013, 09:14 AM
I live in a state where you fill out the application, they finger print you, and send you your permit in the mail when you give them $10. Freedom is fabulous here. So I've never been to a CC class.

My exgirlfrind kept a Jennings 22 in her home for self defense.......... If she wasn't my exgirlfriend, I'd have gotten her a different gun by now.

Outlaw Man
March 1, 2013, 10:35 AM
Wasn't there for it, but my instructor said back in the days when you had to qualify with the gun you were going to carry, he failed the only person he's ever failed in a class. The guy brought a Derringer, and absolutely could not hit paper at 10 feet.

I'd still rather carry that than a Lorcin, though.

jrdolall
March 1, 2013, 12:01 PM
There is a local guy here that has 1000s of older guns from $6k Safari rifles to Rohm .22 revolvers for $40. He said he sells the Lorcin pocket guns for $120 every day along with some of the other brands of super cheap semis. I have an old revolver in .22 short that is so accurate you cannot hit a 10" plate from 10 yards more than twice per cylinder.

Spdracr39
March 1, 2013, 03:19 PM
Maybe I'm not normal. I actually taught my wife how to shoot and operate all our guns BEFORE she went to her CHCL Class. The only down side is she shoots better than I do.

mcdonl
March 1, 2013, 03:35 PM
Someone came to the class I was in many years ago with a SA revolver :) they said no and handed me a S&W 686 :)


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Snowdog
March 2, 2013, 05:43 AM
Not a fan of the zamak wonders, though I own a couple. I still have my Davis Industries D32 and P380. Both have been reliable from the little I've shot them, but they have also both self destructed to a degree.
The D32 had the safety pop out while shooting and the PTFE finish is horrendous.

The P380 had the rifling nearly strip out after only 200 rounds.

I keep them as examples of garbage guns, though I have been tempted a couple times to add them to a pile of iron oxide and aluminum to combine them into a "The Thing"-esque conversation piece.

Bobson
March 2, 2013, 06:01 AM
>>if you have a DD-214 form that shows you were in the military at some time, you don't have to take any CHL class<<

Even if you were in the Air Force?? :p
Jokes aside, I was in the Air Force from 2004-2008. Unless things are significantly different, that training should not qualify a person to carry, if qualification is required by the state.

Of course there are certain jobs in the military that get more firearms training than others, and that's true for the AF as well; but the basic firearms training given to each Airman is just about worthless. Its also a one-time-deal. Only reason I received a refresher after two years was because I deployed to Iraq for a job where I needed to carry a rifle. Even that pre-deployment training was subpar. Anyway, back on topic.

(Full disclosure: I loved the Air Force and recommend it to my younger brothers-in-law who want to join the military. This wasn't about bashing the Air Force; just stating facts.)

jad0110
March 2, 2013, 09:13 AM
I was wondering if anyone else saw anything weird or funny regarding different weapons people brought to your CHL class?

Other than the lady standing right next to me shooting herself in the foot with a Ruger Mk I, no. :uhoh:

mcdonl
March 2, 2013, 09:16 AM
Other than the lady standing right next to me shooting herself in the foot with a Ruger Mk I, no. :uhoh:

Winner


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Arkansas Paul
March 2, 2013, 09:51 AM
Other than the lady standing right next to me shooting herself in the foot with a Ruger Mk I, no.

Wow. That was an interesting class.

leroy
March 2, 2013, 10:23 AM
When I requalified 4 years ago, several people showed up with those cheap jamomatics. The police instructors kindly loaned them their sigs for the shooting portion of the class. The funny one was the arrogant fellow with an expensive 1911 jamomatic. Most of my family is taking a chl class March 9th. Should be interesting. Lol

gearhead
March 2, 2013, 02:51 PM
We had a guy bring a 9mm loaded with .380 to the class I was in. The instructor bummed extra 9mm off the rest of us (most of my class had poly nines) so that person could qualify.

radar1972
March 2, 2013, 03:08 PM
No requirements for a class in GA.

Arkansas Paul
March 2, 2013, 03:56 PM
We had a guy bring a 9mm loaded with .380 to the class I was in. The instructor bummed extra 9mm off the rest of us (most of my class had poly nines) so that person could qualify.

Wow. With the shortage we're in now, that guy may have been out of luck if that happened now.
I certainly wouldn't mind sharing ammo, if I had factory ammo, which I VERY rarely do.

Sauer Grapes
March 2, 2013, 04:42 PM
CHL class? Oh, yeah, I guess some of you live somewhere else. Here we just give you a license and send you out to create havoc in public. :uhoh:

460Kodiak
March 2, 2013, 05:59 PM
Other than the lady standing right next to me shooting herself in the foot with a Ruger Mk I, no.


LOL!!!!! I'd probably pee my pants if that happened in a firearm class!

I know, it's wrong...... but come on!

TarDevil
March 2, 2013, 06:57 PM
Had a similar experience during my qualification...except the shooter with jamming problems was using a Glock 17.

The_Guy
March 2, 2013, 07:06 PM
The class I went to here in central FL the instructor went over the 4 basic firearm safety rules and we shot five rounds out of a provided ruger .22. I felt it should have been more intensive than that for a concealed permit class.

Kiln
March 2, 2013, 08:05 PM
Testing is important but even the ROF guns can be made to run reliably with enough work. Durability is another thing entirely but normally they can be made reliable with a fluff and buff and adjustments to the magazines.

welshdude
March 2, 2013, 08:31 PM
My wife and I went to the same CCP class. KT P11 is my pistol and my wife had a Intratec Protec .25. It's a CZ-45 clone. We had purchased them the week before. We'd shot 40 rounds through each w/o any problems. However, the temperature was about 20 degrees lower when we went out to the range and my wife's pistol kept hanging up. Her trigger would stick upon return and finally the instuctor allowed her to shoot one of his .45s. She said it has less recoil than her .25.

Mine shot fine. She ended up out shooting me. She scored a 92 and I scored an 82 out of 100. 70 or below was a fail. The woman next to me had a Springfield .40 and was 'lights out'. Everything she shot was within an 8" pattern.

When we got home I broke down both pistols and soaked them both in solvent for 24 hrs. Dried, lubed them both and her's has been great since. It's a nice little piece.

We'll be sure to stay away from Lorcin. :scrutiny:

KAS1981
March 2, 2013, 10:57 PM
A guy I work with bought a Jiminez JA380 that had the same problem as the Lorcin in question. Fires & ejects, but will not feed.

OrangePwrx9
March 2, 2013, 11:17 PM
Not a CHL class; just a couple of range sessions with a supposed Front Sight graduate.

First session we shot a Glock 19 and a 9mm XD. Both worked fine for me. For her, a jam on every shot. Told her she was limp wristing and to stiffen her grip, but she was unable or unwilling to correct the problem. Funny thing was she was lightning fast in identifying and clearing the jam and fairly accurate as well. Just couldn't get either gun to run.

Next session we shot a Taurus .38 Spcl. revolver and a Mini 14. Again, the accuracy was there with both guns and the Taurus behaved itself. Afterward she looked at me wide-eyed and said, "I really like these revolvers. They don't jam."

kynwatch
March 2, 2013, 11:26 PM
"I was wondering if anyone else saw anything weird or funny regarding different weapons people brought to your CHL class? "

No weird weapons. One blind man though(he passed).

JVaughn
March 2, 2013, 11:33 PM
I wonder if the shooter was limp-writing the pistol. The lorcin is recoil operated, got to hold on to it when it cycles.

Kiln
March 3, 2013, 12:36 AM
I'm telling you guys, magazines are the biggest problem with cheap guns.

jad0110
March 3, 2013, 08:58 AM
LOL!!!!! I'd probably pee my pants if that happened in a firearm class!

Fortunately I had taken care of that 30 minutes earlier :D.

Her right foot (the one she shot) was about 16" from my left foot at that moment (she was standing to my left). Just prior, I saw out of my peripheral vision the gun slip a little from her hand. When she grabbed at it, her finger was already inside the trigger guard and POP!

The first thing I did was check my own feet and lower extremities. As I was doing this, I heard her grumble "Ugh, I shot myself in the foot!" :eek: I looked over and saw a tiny, .22 sized hole in her sneaker at a point right just behind the big toe and the one next do it.

It happened towards the end of a string of fire, so it wasn't immediately noticed by the safety officer and instructor. I turned my head back and made eye contact with the safety officer. I didn't have to say a word or make any gestures, the funny thing being his eyes went straight from mine to the hole in her shoe. With his saucer-sized eyes locked on that little hole, he grabbed the instructor from behind him and point out the "problem", and a cease fire was called.

Anyway, she was taken to the hospital where she was patched up. We didn't see her after that again, apparently the instructor's wife learned from her at the hospital that the embarrassment was far worse than the pain she felt (which took about 20 minutes to really become noticeable).

The irony was they had just 10 minutes earlier explained why they had banned shoulder holsters, based on a near miss a few years earlier. Apparently, the genius in question tried to fast draw his Sig. He succeeded in firing a shot under his arm. The instructor, who was standing 10 feet behind him, felt the round whiz a by his right ear :what:. He figured it probably missed him by an inch or two.

460Kodiak
March 3, 2013, 12:31 PM
Yeah, I hate to say it, but some people are just not meant to carry a gun, nor own them. Still their right though.

Hopefully both individuals learned from their mistakes and will not repeat them.

savage116
March 3, 2013, 01:09 PM
My uncle had bought a Lorcin 380 for $50,realized it was straight garbage. Then sold it to his friend for $50. His friend just wanted something and knew it was a piece of junk. Then his friend traded it in at a LGS on a ruger LCP and they gave him $60 for it. He was surprised to have gotten that much out of it. It would shoot a round then jam, if you got lucky it'd shoot 2 rounds before jamming.

B!ngo
March 3, 2013, 02:27 PM
I know that $$ are tight for many or most, but for something like a PD/HD device, I fail to understand why people purchase firearms with questionable quality and a checkered past.
I've heard the statement that something is better than nothing, but it may not be the case with something like a Lorcin. That is, if you are unarmed, your defensive moves are obvious. But when armed, some may choose to take a more aggressive posture (though that's almost uniformly unwise). But when you 'think' you are armed but in fact are not (i.e. when you are holding a Lorcin) you may be in the worst possible position.
B

460Kodiak
March 4, 2013, 08:48 AM
Good words B!ngo. I agree 100%. $$ is very tight for many many people. Given the choice between a totally unreliable gun, and a stun gun or pepper spray, I'll take the stun gun or pepper spray.

Investing in a gun for home and self defense is an important investment. It is worth saving for longer to get a decent product and considering your options carefully.

Heck, I'd rather have a sharp stick than a gun that doesn't work.

jrdolall
March 4, 2013, 11:22 AM
I am normally against the people who say to save up and buy something better but in this case I agree. People who say to save up for a $800 pistol instead of buying a $300 gun are out of touch with reality because most would buy a better gun if they could afford one. I have some cheap-o ring of fire guns but sure don't want to NEED them in an emergency. I personally am very comfortable with a Hi Point for HD so buying a $100 crap gun makes no sense when you can buy a $200 (in today's stupid world) Hi Point and have a serviceable, though ugly, weapon for HD. Lorcin and all those other very cheap guns have too sketchy a record to depend on. Much better off with a shotgun at home or a Taurus/Kel Tec for personal carry.

Arkansas Paul
March 4, 2013, 11:22 AM
I agree.

tarosean
March 4, 2013, 12:00 PM
I looked over and saw a tiny, .22 sized hole in her sneaker

wish TX would let you qualify with a .22.
(currently .32 and over)

460Kodiak
March 5, 2013, 10:53 AM
I am normally against the people who say to save up and buy something better but in this case I agree. People who say to save up for a $800 pistol instead of buying a $300 gun are out of touch with reality because most would buy a better gun if they could afford one. I have some cheap-o ring of fire guns but sure don't want to NEED them in an emergency. I personally am very comfortable with a Hi Point for HD so buying a $100 crap gun makes no sense when you can buy a $200 (in today's stupid world) Hi Point and have a serviceable, though ugly, weapon for HD. Lorcin and all those other very cheap guns have too sketchy a record to depend on. Much better off with a shotgun at home or a Taurus/Kel Tec for personal carry.


I agree as well. There are plenty of perfectly good, accurate, reliable, and servicable guns in the $300 to $400 range.

Sigmas, P95, Stoegar Cogars, Ruger SR guns, others that I'm missing.

AJMBLAZER
March 6, 2013, 01:09 PM
Regarding weapons brought to CCW class-

I took mine back in December. Was an interesting cross section of gun owners.

-One guy had a "straight-out-of-the-80's-action-movies-bad-guy-gun" M1911 with a muzzle brake, flared mag well, square trigger guard, black grips, stainless or nickel finish, etc. He shot well though. Was a retired Air Force B-1 pilot.

-Lots of fancy and plain guns. Mostly guns people would actually carry. Very few showed up with revolvers.

-Couple people had no idea how to handle their guns or work them. In KY there's a requirement that during the class they teach the students how to clean guns. Kind of silly to require that but in our class they wanted you to just lock the slide back on an auto, show them it was unloaded, and then let them inspect the gun so that they could make sure it wasn't ridiculously dirty or broken.
Several people had very dirty guns. Some didn't know how to lock the slide back.
One lady who had been rather aloof the whole time had some kind of revolver that was broken. They wouldn't let her shoot it. She got quite bent about it. Ended up storming off when they tried to rent her a .22LR revolver instead of her unsafe-to-fire gun.

-While doing the fire part the couple next to me had trouble. The woman was shooting their newer Ruger 9mm and she kept having misfeeds. The instructors went over and talked to them and quizzed them with all the usual questions. They really didn't seem to have any good answers. The instructors were finally recommending the couple bring the gun in so their smith could look it over the following week when the husband mentioned they had only ever fired the gun before once. The thing had less than a box of ammo through it when they took the class. Instructors just told them to take it out and shoot several hundred rounds through it before they worried if it was reliable or not.

-This guy didn't do anything wrong but there was a very polite little Asian man who showed up with a really nice Sig compact, blasted a fist sized hole through the dead center of his target, hopped in his new Porsche and drove away.

Mayvik
March 6, 2013, 01:26 PM
At least he had Rule #1 down and was also well-practiced in clearing malfunctions..that's more than you can say about many.

MTMilitiaman
March 6, 2013, 09:29 PM
Yeah. I had an aunt that lived for a while in one of the rougher areas of Minneapolis. One time when we were visiting, she showed my brother and I this tiny nickel plated Lorcin .25 ACP. I don't know how often or if she practiced with it, just that my brother and I always liked being shown a new gun, and this particular one came from somewhere we didn't expect it to. If someone on my dad's side of the family pulls out a new piece, that's not a huge deal cause it happens on a fairly regular basis. But this was the only time someone one my mom's side of the family has ever armed themselves, as far as I am aware. So anyways, years go by before we are able to visit this aunt again. But finally we do and inevitably, my brother gets around to asking if he can see the little shiny pistol again. She says, "No, I got rid of it." We of course wanted to know why she would do such a thing. "Simple," she shrugged, "I was getting too old to throw it accurately."

Kiln
March 7, 2013, 12:01 AM
Heck, I'd rather have a sharp stick than a gun that doesn't work.
You could just throw cliches like this at them and it'd be even better.

Eb1
March 7, 2013, 12:07 AM
I am in Central Arkansas as well. My mother is in NE AR. She has arthritis so bad she cannot pull a Smith J frame either, but she can pull back the Rossi M720 .44 SPC, so that is what I have loaned her for protection. I just loaded up some 246 grain Remington lead for her with two speed loaders. I figure if a super soft .429 246 grain lead bullet @ 700 fps from 7 yards away doesn't get someones attention then most nothing will.

Back to CCW Classes and renewals. Due to some circumstances my 9mm Auto was tied up during time for renewal. The officer saw I had a licence to carry an auto, and wanted to know why I brought a revolver.
I told him the story, and he reached in his bag, and brought out a Ruger 22/45 for me to shoot. Just so happened I had a box of .22 LR in my range bag. Nice of him to do that.

460Kodiak
March 7, 2013, 10:31 AM
Edited my original remark. I'm not going to play this game.

Kiln, snide comments serve no purpose.

If you dissagree with something I've said, then say so. Don't be passive aggressive.

If you don't like that most people would agree that ROF guns are considered poor choices for a SD gun, that is your right. So start a thread supporting this idea and talk about it. I'm sure some people will agree with you, and you can have a nice conversation. Just coming in here and saying "It's the magazines" doesn't make ROF guns better though.

By the way:

Testing is important but even the ROF guns can be made to run reliably with enough work. Durability is another thing entirely but normally they can be made reliable with a fluff and buff and adjustments to the magazines.

(Continuing the conversation now)

I agree, you can make any gun, or any machine for that matter, run reliably with enough time, effort, work, and money. But, what's your point? How does that make a poorly made gun that is unreliable from the factory, and may have questionable durability, anything other than what it is? Now it is a reliable poorly made gun that may have questionable durability. If you enjoy fixing up beaters, then enjoy. The bottom line is that it is still a questionable choice, and if you walk into a LGS or chain, trying to sell a Jenning's, and say "Yeah it's a Jenning's, but I did a bunch of work on it and it is reliable as all get out." The person behind the counter is still going to think "It's still a Jenning's"

There is a reason they aren't still in business.

Kiln
March 7, 2013, 04:16 PM
Edited my original remark. I'm not going to play this game.

Kiln, snide comments serve no purpose.

If you dissagree with something I've said, then say so. Don't be passive aggressive.

If you don't like that most people would agree that ROF guns are considered poor choices for a SD gun, that is your right. So start a thread supporting this idea and talk about it. I'm sure some people will agree with you, and you can have a nice conversation. Just coming in here and saying "It's the magazines" doesn't make ROF guns better though.

By the way:



(Continuing the conversation now)

I agree, you can make any gun, or any machine for that matter, run reliably with enough time, effort, work, and money. But, what's your point? How does that make a poorly made gun that is unreliable from the factory, and may have questionable durability, anything other than what it is? Now it is a reliable poorly made gun that may have questionable durability. If you enjoy fixing up beaters, then enjoy. The bottom line is that it is still a questionable choice, and if you walk into a LGS or chain, trying to sell a Jenning's, and say "Yeah it's a Jenning's, but I did a bunch of work on it and it is reliable as all get out." The person behind the counter is still going to think "It's still a Jenning's"

There is a reason they aren't still in business.
A company actually makes the exact same guns so your point is null.

Jennings was shut down by ridiculous lawsuits stemming from negligent use of their guns back when anybody could press charges against the manufacturer when a gun was used in a crime.

I'm not saying that a cheap gun is ideal but they can be good enough.

And just to clarify, larger caliber ROF guns have serious durability issues. The .22 and .25 versions though can last a long time and can be reliable by anyone with even a moderate understanding of how firearms work.

mcdonl
March 8, 2013, 03:39 PM
Ok what is ROF?


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Kiln
March 8, 2013, 04:05 PM
ROF is an acronym for Ring of Fire. A name that the media assigned cheap zamak pocket pistols during the 80's.

They also fired a pretty successful smear campaign against the companies associated and shut a large portion of them downwith liability lawsuits.

jimmyraythomason
March 8, 2013, 07:19 PM
CHL class? Oh, yeah, I guess some of you live somewhere else. Here we just give you a license and send you out to create havoc in publicAlabama the Beautiful(and armed!). Pass the background check,pay $20 (in my county)....done.

CZguy
March 8, 2013, 11:11 PM
Alabama the Beautiful(and armed!). Pass the background check,pay $20 (in my county)....done.


Well, that's exactly how it should be done.

Arkansas Paul
March 8, 2013, 11:45 PM
Alabama the Beautiful(and armed!). Pass the background check,pay $20 (in my county)....done.

Yeah, not only do we have to take the class, but it costs a little at first too.
Class is $100 and then it's like $150ish when you submit your application to the State Police.
Its looking up for us in Arkansas though. We got church carry passed, and I'm pretty sure that open carry is on the agenda before session is over. So, we're actually passing pro-2A legislation instead of trying to restrict it more.

Chris-bob
March 9, 2013, 02:54 AM
You have to have permission to carry concealed...? Crazy talk there.

Back on subject, I've owned a fair number of cheap pistols. I've found that the main issues they have can be corrected with the right ammo(can take a while to find what works best) and how you hold the firearm. That, at least, has been my experience.

sixgunner455
March 9, 2013, 03:14 AM
Old, old man that held his beautiful old Colt Detective Special in hands that just shook all over the place. An essential tremor, or a palsy of some kind.

I want to be able to say that his hands stopped shaking as he fired, but I'd be lying. They shook still, but it was, at best, a bit less. He still hit the close-range targets within the chest area, though. 5 yards or so, 12" group or so.

Deus Machina
March 9, 2013, 05:19 AM
I know of at least one Lorcin (Or Raven, or some other clone) in .25 that worked flawlessly in the time I had to inspect it.

Not that it was well made. It's my thought that the 'break in' period consists of the feed lip of the magazine bending into proper place from where it was over-bent and/or the feed ramp smoothing out, and it works fine for a short while. Then the terribly cheap magazine bends out of spec or the feed ramp comes out of shape, and it's never right again.

460Kodiak
March 9, 2013, 02:57 PM
Alabama the Beautiful(and armed!). Pass the background check,pay $20 (in my county)....done.

Only $10 here. The best part is that when you fill out the application at the cop shop, they photocopy it, hand you the copy, and that is your temporary permit. So you can walk in, fill out the form, get finger printed, and 20 minutes later you are allowed to carry. I love my home.

rondog
March 9, 2013, 03:05 PM
There was a lady in my CCW class that brought a brand-new Walther PPK/S, and it jammed constantly on the firing line. I wasn't impressed with it.

jimmyraythomason
March 9, 2013, 04:15 PM
Only $10 here. .........walk in, fill out the form, get finger printedI'll gladly pay the extra $10 not to be fingerprinted!

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