[Armchair Warrior]

Several years ago I saw a pump shotgun that broke down into 2 parts very similar to the new 10/22. I think it was a winchester model 12. I would like to pick one up but need more information. Anyone know what I am talking about?

[rcmodel]

Both Winchester Model 97 (hammer) & Model 12 (hammerless) shotguns were take-down.

As were many other brands of that era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1912

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Model_1897

rc

[Armchair Warrior]

Are all model 12s takedown? Or is a certain vintage only? Also, I read in the wiki link that some are 2 5/8 and some are 2 3/4. How do I tell which is which? Serial numbers maybe?

[rcmodel]

All Model 12's are take-downs.

The non-take-down Model 12 was the Model 25.

All 12 Ga & 20 Ga Model 12's are either 2 3/4" or 3" chamber.
If it is a 3" Mag it will say so on the barrel.

16 ga is only where you may find 2 9/16" chambered early guns.

rc

[Armchair Warrior]

Thanks RC that makes it easier for me to pick one up. I have an old winchester 1200 pump and a 1200 defender marine version that I love so a takedown 12 seems like a good addition.

[rcmodel]

When you get into buying used Model 12's, you need to know more then nothing about Model 12"s.

Some of the prettiest ones out there are old Trap or Skeet guns that have had half a gazillion shells shot through them.

The locking bolt notch in the receiver is peened, the takedpown adjustment & headspace ring is all used up, and it costs 2x more then the gun is worth to have it correctly repaired.

If you find an old field grade hunting gun with some bluing wear around the receiver from carrying it?
But it looks like it was rode hard and put away wet in the bluing & wood department?

It probably was.
But it probably wasn't shot enough to break it in good.

It is also probably a much better gun then a nice shiny old trap gun that was well care for but completely wore out from shooting from dawn to dusk, and then under lights, every weekend for 30+ years.

An old hunters or farmers Model 12 isn't wore out.
It just looks like it is.

And old clay games gun is wore out.
I just doesn't look like it is.

rc

[Armchair Warrior]

That is the exact type of info I was looking for. Greatly appreciated.

[schultzie]

All Model 12's that I've seen are takedown EXCEPT for the "lightweight" versions. I've got a 1950's vintage factory riot and a 1939 Heavy Duck that are both takedowns. The longest part of the riot is 20". It can fit into very small, inconspicuous cases that raise no eyebrows. With one of these, one can fit a whole lotta love in a go-anywhere bag.

The "solid frame" 97's are not take-downs. I have yet to see a Chinese '97 copy that is a take-down.

[toiville2feathers]

The main reason for the take down was how sportsman traveled in that era. Roads were bad, autos weren't that reliable so they traveled by train. The gun had to fit in the small overhead rack. And by todays definition it was a carry-on. You didn't want it in the baggage car. The railroads use advertise and promote hunting into the game rich areas. I have seen many photos of northern Minnesota,Wisconsin and Michigan, where railroad platforms stacked high with deer at the close of season and all the city dudes returning home. before the great depression the railroad catered to the hunter and his travel needs.

[Jim Watson]

I once lived next door to the town repair gunsmith.
Neglected hunters' Model 12s and A-5s were his bread and butter.
(Old Model 10s, 29s, and 11-48s with their multitude of recoil spring choices were his nightmare.)

He shot a Remington Model 31 and put me into an 1100.
That got us a lot more shooting and a lot fewer repairs.

[rcmodel]

so they traveled by train.More importantly then train travel for the Pre-WWI sportsman perhaps?

The average city dweller of 1912 went out in the country quail, rabbit, or duck hunting in his horse & buggy.

The buggy seat was 3 foot wide, and a 28" pump shotgun or double barrel with 30" barrels was 4+ foot wide.

Take-down guns, and mutton chop gun cases made it possible to pass a freight wagon with a six horse hitch going the other way in a "two rut" mud road without the gun barrel getting snagged in the wagon or buggy's wheels and bent double!

Today?
No so much a factor to worry about when you go hunting in a 6' wide, enclosed SUV or pick-up on paved streets, with the heater & satellite radio on full blast.

rc

[Armchair Warrior]

How would you go about finding one of these guns. I know a few ways I look for guns but I just thought some of you might have ideas or links I have not thought of.

[sugerwater]

i have two now, the first was bought at a flea market. second at the local pawn. first was bubba'ed up but in nice condition on the inside. pawn shop find was the gem, cleaned up nice with a simmons vent rib, 28 in mod barrel. very distinctive profile in the rack. keep looking for a nice one. i paid 325 for each.