Brand New Redding Carbide Dies Shaving My 40 Cases Badly!


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dsm
March 3, 2013, 03:09 AM
Well, I got my Dillon 550 a couple days ago and finally got around to mounting it on my homemade pedestal stand. Got everything finished and started to set up to make a run of 40 S&W for my M&P. When I ordered the press, I originally ordered Dillon dies. Well the place ran out and gave me a set of Redding Pro Series Carbide dies in place of Dillon. They at least charged me the Dillon price.

I run my first case and shaved the crap out of my cases to the point they are not usable. This die is defective and will be calling Redding Monday, if I can get through.

I could probably take it to my buddies shop and have the edge polished a bit, but these are $80 dies and they should be perfect right from the start!

Anyone else experience this?

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JustSomeGuyinCA
March 3, 2013, 03:49 AM
Wow... nope, never experienced this. I'd be interested to know what the carbide ring measures. Can you take a caliper measurement?

Mike 27
March 3, 2013, 04:20 AM
I have seen this with 10mm, that were over pressured out of my G20. Were these factory once fired rounds? I would say they were hot and fired from something with a large chamber like a glock. I would be surprised if it was the dies but I have been wrong before. Hope this helps.

Mike

Walkalong
March 3, 2013, 08:51 AM
I had one like that in .45 ACP. My first one was great, until the carbide ring came out. I glued it back in, but when it came out again. I sent it to Redding. The replacement shaved cases like that. I sent it back to Redding and they sent it back with a note that I was sizing too far down. None of my other carbide dies in any caliber did that no matter how far down I did or did not size, and adjusting this one up only helped, but did not stop the shaving. I bought a Lyman .45 ACP and it works like a champ. I tossed the Redding, and it has hurt their business from me ever since.

Try sizing a little less and see how it does. Then make Redding replace it.

FROGO207
March 3, 2013, 08:53 AM
Yep Glocked brass for sure. You should be able to see the guppied bellies/bulge on the brass before you attempt to size it. You can reuse the brass and reload them in this die if you first use a bulge buster die to shrink the cases. FWIW I had some of these in 45 ACP and first used a 45 colt die to pre-size the brass and it fit in the 45 ACP die afterwards. Without the colt die, the ring went 3/4 the way around the brass and ruined it. Some on here will tell you the Glocked brass is unsafe to reload but I have seen no problems after 20+ reloads so far with some 40 I processed. There are some threads about Glocked brass on here for your reading pleasure. I would not use the brass that you show in the picture. Just my 2 cents.

ETA: If the ring goes all around the brass equally then I concur that the dies are defective as there should be a slight taper at the start of the carbide. My Lee or RCBS dies have all worked correctly out of the box so far with over 60 sets purchased. YMMV

Beanie-Bean
March 3, 2013, 02:40 PM
I have their G-Rx carbide full-length resizing die, and I run all of my .40S&W/10mm/.357SIG brass though it first before loading it with my Dillon dies. Haven't had any issues with brass at all.

You can tell if the brass has expanded to the point where the sizing ring will be cutting into the brass. I use a case gauge from Dillon for .40 and 10mm, and an L.E. Wilson gauge for the .357SIG. Most of the brass I've got doesn't move freely in those gauges, so I have to run them through the G-Rx setup first. After that, all of them load, chamber, and run just fine.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/231187/redding-g-rx-carbide-base-sizing-die-kit-40-s-and-w-357-sig-10mm-auto

dsm
March 3, 2013, 03:03 PM
I can measure with calipers, but that measurement would not be close to being accurate.

The funny thing is, I've ran this same brass through my Square Deal B with no problems at all. So a proper sizing die is the only thing needed.

The amount of brass shaved off, its definitely defective.

I am not sure why Redding would let something like this out the door! It will probably take me weeks to get this resolved. If they want the die back, I will ship the cases with it.

Walkalong
March 3, 2013, 04:28 PM
That is what I did, and they told me I was sizing wrong. I have four .45 sizers now. Two RCBS, one Redding, and a Lyman. The one RCBS is very very tight, but doesn't shave brass. It is great for RP brass when you want great neck tension on jacketed bullets. The other RCBS was not quite tight enough for RP brass. The first Redding was right in the middle. Perfect. If the dang carbide ring had stayed put, I would have been very happy with it. The carbide ring came out of another Redding sizer I had as well and I glued it back in as too. So far so good for it, but no more Redding carbide sizers for me.

david_r
March 3, 2013, 05:19 PM
How can any die shave the brass? Isn't there a radius ground on the carbide ring? There should be no point where there is an angle to contact the brass. It would be like trying to shave your beard with the back of a spoon. I've not got brass fully into the shell holder a few times and have dented the heck out of the side of a case all the way to the web with no shaving occurring. Must be my stupid Lee dies.

Confused

dsm
March 3, 2013, 05:42 PM
There is a radius, but that radius stops with a hard edge where the straight sizing area begins. I think the radius needs to be blended in a bit more to make a smooth transition.

bds
March 3, 2013, 05:48 PM
dsm, if you are getting that from overly bulged 40S&W cases, you would need to push-through resize the cases using Redding G-Rx (Glock Rx) or Lee FCD die first then reload as usual.

I use Lee carbide dies and the carbide sizer ring is nicely radiused to not shave the case base and will successfully resize most cases. On occasion I will come across some overly bulged cases that won't resize all the way down the case base and I toss them to be recycled as I deem them too far stretched/thinned to be reloaded. I could fix them by pushing through FCD but the thinned case wall won't magically get thicker ... ;)

JustSomeGuyinCA
March 3, 2013, 05:58 PM
What about brass measurements, both before and after that ridge on the case web.

dsm
March 3, 2013, 06:06 PM
I looked at a bunch of my brass and I can't find any with a "Glock bulge" Its all once fired Winchester and is pretty nice stuff. Like I said, my Square Deal B ran a bunch of the same stuff with no problems. I'd even resize a flared case with my SDB...worked fine.

I'll take a few measurements and post them up.

bds
March 3, 2013, 06:21 PM
"Glock bulge" is a generic term but many factory barrels have looser chambers, especially generous chamber mouths that allow greater expansion of the case base with hotter loads.

Even 40S&W Lee carbide resizer with narrower radius at the carbide sizer ring opening won't resize the case base of overly bulged cases. If you want to reuse these cases, they need to be push-through resized with undersized dies (like G-Rx/FCD) before being reloaded.

dsm
March 3, 2013, 06:35 PM
Well, took a few measurements.

I measured 5 once fired brass at the base.

0.4270
0.4275
0.4275
0.4275
0.4280

I measured the base and neck of the brass that I sized with the Redding die

Base:
0.4170
0.4180
0.4170

Neck:
0.4150
0.4165
0.4165

So, the Redding die is sizing about 0.010" at the base, which seems ridiculous to me.!

The factory specs out of the Hornady manual has a base of 0.424 and neck at 0.423.

I measured a few rounds that was done on my Dillon Square Deal B(no longer own). The amount sized is half of what the Redding is doing! The base measure at:

0.4225
0.4220
0.4230

I can conclude the Redding is garbage. I may ask to send the entire die set back to Gunstop and ask for a refund. Order a set of Dillon and wait!

Below is a picture of a bunch of once fired brass that was never touched. I can't see much of a bulge if any.

bds
March 3, 2013, 07:19 PM
I measured several fired 40S&W cases and they were on average .426" - .429" at the wider bulges 2/3 way down the case.

After being resized with Lee carbide die, they were all around .419" at the neck and .420" at the base and dropped freely into the tight chambers of Lone Wolf barrels with "plink".

Yes, I would say the Redding resizing die's carbide sizer ring is tight.

gamestalker
March 4, 2013, 01:05 AM
I would vote bad die. I've reloaded a lot of badly bulged cases on my inexpensive RCBS and Lee dies and have never had a case get shaved. In fact, I got some super badly bulged .40 the other day from a buddy that went through the Lee die like butter.

As for resizing down too far, I've never heard of that before with handgun brass? I always fully re size handgun brass, especially rimless.

GS

dsm
March 4, 2013, 01:34 AM
I sent an email with picture to Gunstop, where the dies came from, asking to return for a refund or exchange for Dillon dies once they get them. I believe they do not backorder, so I'm hoping for a refund. Regardless, I need to shop around or backorder the dies from Dillon, Grafs or Enos. If I do need to send back to Redding, these does are heading for eBay once they are fixed!

My shooting buddy who single stages 40, he had trouble with the Redding seating stem making deep marks in his hard cast. The stem wasn't contoured right for seating cast. He called Redding and they sent him a new stem, not much better. He said his sizer works ok. He solved his Redding whoes by buying a set of Lyman dies.

david_r
March 4, 2013, 04:30 AM
It sounds like the carbide didn't get ground after being inserted into the die. I would expect that is the process. It isn't really a radius in my book if there is an obvious transition between it and the straight section.

Any chance your buddy can size some and measure for you? If it sizes acceptably, it might be worth it to exchange with the retailer for another set of the same dies if you are itching to reload. That's assuming they have them in stock. Or maybe you're just done with Redding for the apparent QC miss.

I'd vote for Lee. But that's only because the only problems I have with my sets are user caused and I have no base to compare them to other brands. You may call them and see if you can get just the 40 sizer. I emailed them not long ago requesting to order just a 40 sizer for my 357sig reloading. While their website showed out of stock on the 40 sets, they did tell me to call and I could order the 40 sizer. I probably should have followed up on that.

dsm
March 4, 2013, 04:42 PM
Dave, I believe you are right in the machining process. It sure looks like they ground the radius and then ground the ID to size. This definitely would create a sudden stop of the radius. Not sure why they would do this? To boot, I believe the ID too small since I am measuring a sized base at .417.

Anyhow, I got a reply from Gunstop and they will accept them in exchange for a set of Dillon dies. So I shipped them back today. Just happens to be, they got a shipment of Dillon stuff in today and already shipped my dies! Talk about service!

So if anyone needs any Dillon stuff, give Gunstop a call...they might have what you need.

dsm
March 6, 2013, 03:41 PM
OK, here is a promising update! I just received my Dillon dies from Gunstop. A huge props for Gunstop for accepting an exchange and getting out the Dillon dies before they received the defective Redding dies!

The first picture is before and the next is after it was sized in a Dillon die.

Night and day difference! These Dillon dies will definitely work OK!

Just finished polishing the inside of my powder measure and waiting on UPS to deliver the Rosette hand knobs from McMaster Carr for the adjustment screw. Will be ready to run a few 40's.

BigCheese
March 6, 2013, 04:07 PM
As a (retired) metallurgist, I can tell you that your friend would not have been able to polish or otherwise alter the defective die unless he used diamond abrasive. Tungsten carbide is harder than silicon carbide or aluminum oxide grinding abrasives, and would just remove the grit from abrasive papers or cloth. In preparing carbide samples in the lab, we had a series of diamond grit platens with graded size abrasive, and finished by polishing on a cloth impregnated with diamond slurry.

1KPerDay
March 6, 2013, 05:48 PM
Glad they took care of you; disappointing to hear that about Redding.

dsm
March 6, 2013, 05:59 PM
As a (retired) metallurgist, I can tell you that your friend would not have been able to polish or otherwise alter the defective die unless he used diamond abrasive. Tungsten carbide is harder than silicon carbide or aluminum oxide grinding abrasives, and would just remove the grit from abrasive papers or cloth. In preparing carbide samples in the lab, we had a series of diamond grit platens with graded size abrasive, and finished by polishing on a cloth impregnated with diamond slurry.

Interesting. Their company specializes in carbide. I guess they just got a contract with a major bullet maker to make carbide dies for their automated bullet machines. Probably would have taken him forever to fix the Redding die, lol


Yeah...dissapointing with Redding.

bds
March 6, 2013, 10:31 PM
Great! I love happy endings. :D

david_r
March 7, 2013, 03:20 AM
Great! I love happy endings. :D
Me too. Hey, wait a minute!

Sounds like gunstop is GTG. Nice to see them take care of you in these times when one customer isn't going to be missed.

Cleftwynd
March 7, 2013, 03:35 AM
I have to say that is an interesting way to make belted 40 casings!! Lol

Trent
March 7, 2013, 07:33 PM
HAH! Belted 40's.

Nice.

Odd problem - never had it myself, yet.

Innovative
March 7, 2013, 08:59 PM
I've seen this symptom a jillion times before, and this is especially common with high pressure from .40 Caliber handloads. The .40 Cal. has a fairly unique handloading problem. It's important to recognize "Glocked" brass. Generation 3 (and earlier) Glocks are especially bad at bulging cases, and that makes them a bit too large to resize.

This problem occurs on the thicker part of brass (at the transition to the web). Redding makes another push-through die that prepares bulged cases for resizing. Unlike an ordinary carbide die, this push-through die allows you to push your case into a shoulder (not away from it). That prevents the carbide ring from popping loose. This push through die also pushes cases completely through the die, so it can resize cases lower than when using a shellholder.

I devised a carbide push through die (about 10 years ago) that is identicle to the Redding die. However, I couldn't produce it at an affordable price. This push-through die is very impressive. Lee makes a cheaper version, but I prefer the Redding carbide die.

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