Imr xbr 8208


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lakecitybrass
March 4, 2013, 01:14 PM
I bought some of this last year mostly for use in a 6 BR bolt gun, but people have claimed that this powder is quite good in an AR-15 .223. A very reliable person I know personally - among others - has said so, but when I loaded 23.2 or 23.4 grains in a Winchester case and the 77 grain Sierra, I have experienced cycling problems (not every time) In slow fire, the bolt will fail to go all the way back. In a rapid fire string it has not jammed, however. The barrel is a Wilson 26 inch with a Bill Wylde chamber. IMR gives 23.2 as a max load with the 77 grain bullet. Are there any of you who have experience with 8208?
Thanks, John

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BoilerUP
March 4, 2013, 01:32 PM
23.8gr XBR with a 77gr Nosler CC in a 18" 1:8 5.56 Black Hole Weaponry barrel produced 2683fps in pressure testing; 23.5gr produced 2658fps.

Both cycled just fine with rifle length gas & carbine buffer, and provided better than 0.75" @ 100yd accuracy.

Shmackey
March 4, 2013, 02:38 PM
XBR is my preferred powder for .223 (and .308), and I've never had a single failure of any kind running less-than-max (or max) loads through my Colt AR.

lakecitybrass
March 4, 2013, 04:37 PM
I loaded some 77 grain Sierra loads with 23.6 & 23.8 grains of XBR 8208 and the bolt did not lock back. The primers showed no real pressure signs.

By contrast, I shot some H4895 loads (23.0 grains) and the gun functioned perfectly. The same for a RE-15 load with 24.0 grains.

I just am looking for an answer why this happens. Others on different forums don't have the experience that I am having.

lakecitybrass
March 5, 2013, 10:20 PM
I may be onto something. Today I loaded some test loads with 23.1 grains - on the weaker side - and some heavier stuff. Before I shot, I lubed the clean bolt & carrier with the home made "red death" lube and the gun cycled fine. Maybe something simple as that?...

Most people I have read about this on other forums as well as some this one shoot 23.2 grains. Thanks for any suggestions.

John

Scott_R
March 6, 2013, 12:26 AM
Great powder for 223. I like it for 77SMK, 69SMK, 52SMK and others.

CFE 223 is another great one to try, if you haven't already.

Hodgdon list the max for the 77SMK @ 23.2. My <moa load is 23.1. 2611fps in a 16" barrel 1:8 twist.

lakecitybrass
March 6, 2013, 01:30 AM
Thank you Scott. I spoke with a barrel maker in Portland and he thought perhaps the high pressure loads could possibly have expanded the case enough to impede cycling. He said I should try keeping the bolt wet with LSA, his personal choice. John ought to know.

Grumulkin
March 6, 2013, 06:05 AM
If the load doesn't consistently cycle the gun, it's probably a little too low. As for the case expanding to impede cycling; I highly doubt it.

Look at the case. If the case is expanding too much, there will be scuff marks on it. I suspect the gun would tear the rim off the case before cycling would be impeded with a high pressure load. If the pressure is low, you may see soot on the neck and shoulder and maybe even down on the body. Look in the barrel after shooting; if there is powder residue, the pressure is too low.

Scott_R
March 6, 2013, 08:29 AM
Thank you Scott. I spoke with a barrel maker in Portland and he thought perhaps the high pressure loads could possibly have expanded the case enough to impede cycling. He said I should try keeping the bolt wet with LSA, his personal choice. John ought to know.

In my workup on this load, I did go as low as 22.0 and as high as 23.7 with no cycling issues whatsoever. The math of the workup put a particular step at 23.1, which turned out to shoot the best for me. Had I been paying attention I would have adjusted that load to the listed Max of 23.2. Apparently I wasn't paying attention.

Oh, the rifle I use for this load is also a Wylde chambered barrel.

If the load doesn't consistently cycle the gun, it's probably a little too low.

This would be my general line of thinking as well, but it's obviously not the case in this instance, don't you agree?

The 1st post listed two charges that are at, or above max.

Anyway, I hope you're on to something with the "wet" bolt/carrier.

Is this a new barrel/rifle?

I'm certainly interested in what eventually solves this problem for you. It's a great powder bullet combo that I would hate to loose from my toolkit.

ole farmerbuck
March 6, 2013, 08:56 AM
8208 is all I use in my AR's with 40 to 55gr bullets. I use BL-C2 in the bolts only because I have so much of it.

lakecitybrass
March 6, 2013, 11:50 AM
This is a Wylde chamber in a Wilson match barrel. I have had cycling problems with high end loads - 23.9 grains as well as 23.1 grains, all the while the RE-15, (24 grains) H4895 (23 grains)& Varget (24 grains)had no problems at all. I have not looked for scuff marks, But I will. What is odd is that when I practice with rapid fire strings - 2 & 8 round loadings, there hasn't been a jam, only in single loading. As I wrote, once I lubed the bolt & bolt carrier it began to function even with 23.1 grains. The trouble with testing is that it eats up components which as you all know are difficult to replace at this time.

This powder gives my the most accurate groups off the bench at 100 yards.(the only local range I have) I really want to shoot this in Phoenix next month.
The barrel is fairly new with only a match or two shot with it. Less than 500 rounds through it.

Thanks to all of you. (I am not alone with 8208 cycling problems)

John - Albany, Oregon

popper
March 6, 2013, 12:30 PM
Won't lock back on empty? XBR is faster, full load will cycle bolt faster. Is the mag catch in good shape, spring OK? I assume single load is from the mag - check the mag catch Stovepipe - same problem. Use mobil1 or moly grease on the bolt?

lakecitybrass
March 6, 2013, 02:06 PM
Good morning Pop,
The cycling was with a Bobsled as well as a 20 round GI magazine. Your point is well taken, but this stuff was what I used with the other non 8208 loads and there was no problem. In the past, I have had worn boltstops and crummy magazines, but not this time.

The lube I used is the formula the national guard team was using. I also have some LSA to use. Grease seems to pick up grit - at least the stuff I tried to use years ago did. I have not tried Mobil 1.

To give you another hint : I am a full blooded Swede (stubborn) with a lot of years behind me.

ole farmerbuck
March 6, 2013, 02:12 PM
From what i've read and noticed myself, 8208 likes to be loaded towards the higher end. I have no trouble with it cycling 40gr through 55gr. I use it in 5 AR's. Interesting.

lakecitybrass
March 6, 2013, 02:22 PM
Well, what troubled me from the beginning is what I read from several reliable competitors who reported the same load - 77 grain Sierra & 23.2grains - give or take a tenth of a grain, and suffered no malfuntions. Same bullets, same chamber. One shooter suggested that a CLE chamber would require slightly lower charges.

ole farmerbuck
March 6, 2013, 02:25 PM
My chamber are .223 rem. Nice n tight.

lakecitybrass
March 6, 2013, 03:08 PM
You realize that there are different .223/5.56 chambers out there.

ole farmerbuck
March 6, 2013, 04:36 PM
Mine are Krieger barrels. They cut the chambers.

lakecitybrass
March 6, 2013, 05:40 PM
It does not matter if Krieger makes your barrels or anyone else. There are a handful of different chamber dimensions that every barrel maker uses. Krieger uses a pattern that is available - I sincerely doubt that krieger invented their own. There are chamber standards - otherwise there would be chaos for reloaders.

ole farmerbuck
March 6, 2013, 07:09 PM
It does not matter if Krieger makes your barrels or anyone else. There are a handful of different chamber dimensions that every barrel maker uses. Krieger uses a pattern that is available - I sincerely doubt that krieger invented their own. There are chamber standards - otherwise there would be chaos for reloaders.
I was just trying to tell you they asked me what i wanted, 5.56,223 rem or wylde. I said .223. I use the same fl die for all of the Kriegers.But I did find out I can neck size if I want to, 2 or 3 times but I dont.

lakecitybrass
March 6, 2013, 08:03 PM
Are you saying that Krieger sent a chambered barrel direct to you? All the Kriegers I have seen including my 6mm, came from them as a blank and the gunsmith chambered it.

ole farmerbuck
March 6, 2013, 08:13 PM
Yep, thats what I'm saying. They did all of the work. I have another one coming any day now as soon as it gets fluted.

Nalgi
March 7, 2013, 01:46 AM
Im shooting 26.2 grains behind 40 gr BT

shoots sub MOA all day long

lakecitybrass
March 7, 2013, 10:40 PM
I solved the cycling problem today. After speaking to a local high power competitor I know, I took his advise and really lubed the bolt/carrier with the 'red death" oil and the gun functioned perfectly with the 23.2 grain load. So now, all is good - for the moment...

Scott_R
March 7, 2013, 10:46 PM
Glad to hear it.

Just had a case of 8208 delivered, today. I have work to do.

lakecitybrass
March 7, 2013, 11:27 PM
Good evening Scott,
May I ask where you bought that? I can assume you waited for a bit to get it?

This is a great, accurate, clean burning powder compared to Varget. I am glad I could get it to work in my AR.

John

Scott_R
March 7, 2013, 11:35 PM
I bought it from Midsouth Shooters (http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=00034IMR8208XBR1)

At the time they showed a restock date of 3/13/2013 for the 1lb jugs. No date for the 8lb. So, I ordered 10 of the 1lb containers.

I just purchased it last week. I was surprised when it shipped early.

The week before I ordered 2 8lb jugs from Midway. I was surprised they allowed me to backorder it. About 5 days later, they canceled my order. I weren't too happy about that.

lakecitybrass
March 8, 2013, 01:10 AM
You're a good man Scott - and fast on your feet. I really like this powder and I know you will too.

I traded an 8 pound jug of Varget with a friend for 8 pounds of RE-15 today. I have RE-15 back order with Brownells and on Monday thirdgeneration.com might get some Hodgdon in (maybe, who knows) Just try to call after I call.

John

Scott_R
March 8, 2013, 07:18 AM
Thanks.
IMR-8208 is my goto powder in 223. I've used it for light bullets in 30-06 with great success, also.

Funny: I just scored a full pound of Re-15 off craigslist for $20. I've all but stopped using Varget altogether.

Thanks for the link. I'm low on pistol powder for lead.

That link for thirdGeneration isn't quite right. Here is a hot link (http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/).

lakecitybrass
March 8, 2013, 11:30 AM
Hi Scott,
I gave you a bad link to slow you down on Monday;)

Skylerbone
March 8, 2013, 12:45 PM
Hoping for a follow up post of results. I've only spotted 8208 once locally and was told it was selling too fast to keep in stock at the time, one reason I opted to stick with BL-C(2) as my everyday go-to with Varget a distant second. Good to hear cycling has improved with lubrication. Wintertime here, I prefer a big can of CLP but climate and personal preference certainly plays a role in what each of us choose.

lakecitybrass
March 8, 2013, 12:51 PM
The barrel maker who is creating my new upper swears by LSA which some people say is hard to find now, but I have a gallon can of it that I bought several years ago.

As I stated earlier, I like 8208 powder because for one thing it is accurate and it burns cleaner than Varget. (in my opinion, anyway) It meters quite well, too.

Scott_R
March 8, 2013, 01:07 PM
And temp stable. It's a great powder.

lakecitybrass
March 9, 2013, 07:49 PM
I am more impressed with 8208. I went to the range to do some rapid sitting practice only to discover that I left the hand stop at home so I shot off the bench again with NO malfunctions at all with 23.2 grains or 23.3 grains. This can easily hold the x ring at 100 yards with a 77 Nosler. (but you folks already knew that)

Just a bit of Slip 2000 on the bolt or LSA or Breakfree or whatever.

ole farmerbuck
March 9, 2013, 08:09 PM
Yep that 8208 is some good stuff. Thats why I keep about 50lbs on hand.

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