Business owner puts up large pro-gun billboard


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ryan3465
March 5, 2013, 03:20 PM
Here in Central Maine, a local business owner has a tradition of putting up billboards over his cleaning shop thanking our first responders, soldiers & veterans, etc. Today I drove by and saw his newest billboard:
180854

Thanks,
Ryan

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gfanikf
March 5, 2013, 03:26 PM
I hope he paid Warner Brothers to licence the image...and that's not including right of publicity issues for Clint....I do copyright law for a living. :)

joeschmoe
March 5, 2013, 03:50 PM
Stealing someone's intellectual property rights to promote your own rights? It does seem contradictory.

joeschmoe
March 5, 2013, 03:55 PM
The quote should say - Dirty Harry (or Harry Callaghan). Not Clint Eastwood. The character said it. Technically, the writer "said" it. Clint was "acting" at the time. Attributing it to Clint is clearly just trying to use Clint's fame for his own purpose.

TheGloriousTachikoma
March 5, 2013, 05:05 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151

r1derbike
March 5, 2013, 05:09 PM
Let's see how long it takes before Clint's counsel urges it taken down?

X-JaVeN-X
March 5, 2013, 05:55 PM
Isn't Clint Eastwood pro-2a? Why would he want it taken down?

hso
March 5, 2013, 06:03 PM
The sentiment on the board is that of the Antis. "If there's a gun around I want to be the one controlling it." might as well be a catchphrase for them.

Why would Eastwood mind? If someone takes something I might have given them if they'd asked I would mind and might insist on it back, wouldn't you? He could have used any of the pro-2A posters out there free for the asking, but he stole and then twisted something that belonged to someone else.

People should really think and research carefully before doing things like that.

Devonai
March 5, 2013, 06:08 PM
Gfanikf, isn't it possible that the image falls under Fair Use, as the business in question doesn't stand to derive any income directly from it? Or maybe as an educational message?

joeschmoe
March 5, 2013, 06:13 PM
Amazing people can't understand Intellectual property rights.

Because it's not his alone to give away. In this case it looks like both the movie rights and Clint's professional name/image. His job is selling his image and name. People who do that have investors they have signed contracts with who pay him for using his name and image. He "shares" his license for profit. If he doesn't maintain control of his image/name then others can use it without his permission. It's stealing from Clint/WB and those who invest in Clint/WB. Nor could Clint agree to give away property that belongs to the films owners. I doubt WB gives 2 hoots about the 2nd. Their job is to make money. No money, no permission.

When someone steals/copies music they are stealing from the artist and the investors who took a risk on paying the artist for their work. Same here. Using that image, and Clint's name, without payment is theft of intellectual property.


From the Constitution of the United States of America;

Article I, section 8

The Congress shall have Power... To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

gym
March 5, 2013, 06:50 PM
There is probablly a statute declaring it being "time barred", it's like 30-40 years old. I think that unless you own the rights to the slogan and or picture you may be out of luck, Probablly the photo more than the slogan. I believe you have to keep up with the licensing and perhaps after 25 years or so, they stop paying for certain types of things, just my opinion. I know that with Corporate name and DBA's you need to keep up with this or someone can steal it after a certain amount of time, also websites and other intellectual property.

Blackstone
March 5, 2013, 07:13 PM
Clint Eastwood is pro-2A though from what I know, so I can't see himself taking issue with this

Also, I'm pretty sure that quote is correctly attributed to Clint himself, rather than any of his film characters

X-JaVeN-X
March 5, 2013, 08:02 PM
So if I post a quote from a movie on the internet for everyone to see...it's stealing? Give me a break. If I proclaimed to be the owner of such "intellectual property" (if you want to call it that), and in some way devised a way to profit from it, then sure I can see that. From what I see...this guy just posted a quote, from an actor that to my knowledge shares the same sentiment. A sane person would take it as a compliment...a child on a playground would be the one running around screaming "Mine! Mine! Mine!".

X-JaVeN-X
March 5, 2013, 08:10 PM
If WB is smart, they'll think the owner for free advertising for their film. Comparing what this person did on a billboard to "stealing" music is not an apples to apples comparison. Now, if the owner was standing on the corner handing out free bootleg copies of WB films, then maybe you'd be in the same neighborhood.

If posting quotes from a movie for the public to see were illegal, then the entire internet should be shut down.

I mean really...

http://www.posterchase.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/c/l/clint-eastwood-poster-44-dirty-harry-make-my-day-5053.jpg

Is WB going to come after me now? Stop being ridiculous...

Grmlin
March 5, 2013, 08:17 PM
Gee, maybe the billboard owner received permission first and if he didn't that will be their problem. I for one like it.

InkEd
March 5, 2013, 08:47 PM
I'll go ahead and say it.... "too many lawyers":rolleyes:

No offense.

joeschmoe
March 5, 2013, 09:02 PM
You like to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution we should ignore and which to support?

BaltimoreBoy
March 5, 2013, 09:21 PM
joeschmoe:

"You like to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution we should ignore and which to support?"

Not ignore perhaps, but deprecate. So, for example the so-called commerce and elastic clauses have been grossly misused. It would have been better if the elastic clause hadn't been written, and the commerce clause clarified to mean that state governments could not interfere with interstate commerce - i.e. the original free trade zone.

As the case with these other clauses, so-called 'intellectual property' has become a bad joke. First, there is no such thing as 'intellectual property'. There are copyrights. There are patents. There are trade secrets. There are trademarks.

None of them are 'property' in the conventional sense. All of them are granted at congressional whim. Thus they have become part of the gucci gulch playground.

They are also not 'rights'. A right to defend oneself is a proposition of natural law. A right to not have others tell funny jokes that they heard me tell is something different.

So, yes there are many parts of the constitution one can disagree with. Indeed second amendment critics are entitled to seek its' repeal - as the more honest ones do.

Try the Electronic Freedom Foundation for some interesting discussions. https://www.eff.org/

That's probably enough for something that is diverging from firearms.

gfanikf
March 5, 2013, 10:42 PM
Keep in mind reading the EFF in regards to copyright is like reading a VPC paper on the 2A. There I said my piece and I can move on.

Point being if you're using a billboard they uses materials you do not own, you probably want to licence the rights to use them.

beatledog7
March 5, 2013, 10:52 PM
Too many lawyers is not the problem. We make them legislators, giving them the opportunity to make more and ever-increasingly-complicated laws that they'll have to sort out for us peons once they leave office. That's the real problem.

Double Naught Spy
March 6, 2013, 08:06 AM
The sentiment on the board is that of the Antis. "If there's a gun around I want to be the one controlling it." might as well be a catchphrase for them.

Right, I found the sign disturbing. The character making the statement was a cop. It bespeaks of gun control. Nobody here wants to have to be disarmed by a cop who demands control of our guns simply because the cop is around.

If you understand the context of the image, it is NOT pro gun.

Ryanxia
March 6, 2013, 09:33 AM
Glad he put up something pro 2A. Good for him.

jrdolall
March 6, 2013, 09:38 AM
Since it's not my shop I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he did some research prior to placing the billboard.

If he did not do his research then he may be asked to remove the sign, maybe even ordered to remove the sign. He will probably remove it in whatever timeframe allowed and move on to the next sign.

Get over yourselves.

Arkansas Paul
March 6, 2013, 11:34 AM
Maybe this is a little off topic, but I never understood that slogan in light of pro 2A regards anyway. Really? You want to be the one controlling it? So I'm not responsible enough to have it? Sounds like Fenstien. You know, having a CCW and not wanting anybody else to have them.

I know Clint is pro 2A, but that statement wasn't very well thought out IMO.

gym
March 6, 2013, 12:07 PM
elebrity gun quotes,
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/celebrity-gun-quotes

somerandomguy
March 6, 2013, 12:58 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151
Hehehe USS Enterprise facepalm. I lol'd.

jerkface11
March 6, 2013, 01:39 PM
Sounds like some of you have never heard of the MPAA.

jcwit
March 6, 2013, 01:53 PM
You like to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution we should ignore and which to support?

Why not? Lawyers, States, and LE have been doing it for years.

somerandomguy
March 6, 2013, 06:44 PM
Why not? Lawyers, States, and LE have been doing it for years.
They're politicians, do you really want to become a politician? Everyone hates lawyers and politicians, do you really want to be one of the most hated people in the United States??? (As in less popular than cockroaches or headlice?) LOL

gfanikf
March 6, 2013, 08:58 PM
They're politicians, do you really want to become a politician? Everyone hates lawyers and politicians, do you really want to be one of the most hated people in the United States??? (As in less popular than cockroaches or headlice?) LOL
Hate on lawyers all you want, cry when I can afford to buy a transferable mg. Mwahahahaahah

BaltimoreBoy
March 6, 2013, 09:04 PM
"Keep in mind reading the EFF in regards to copyright is like reading a VPC paper on the 2A."

A better analogy is that computer technology is an analog to an AR-15.

The anti's want to cripple these machines in order to preserve their business models. So unreasonable laws are written and modifications deleterious to your use of your own hardware are built by government fiat into the electronic products one purchases.

Emotional appeals are employed in both instances. In one case it is always for 'the children' in the second case it is for 'the artist'.

Close examination reveals this does not happen to be true in either case.

somerandomguy
March 6, 2013, 09:20 PM
Hate on lawyers all you want, cry when I can afford to buy a transferable mg. Mwahahahaahah
Lmao, never said you guys weren't rich. ;)

gfanikf
March 6, 2013, 09:34 PM
Lmao, never said you guys weren't rich. ;)
Lol I wish!

Arkansas Paul
March 6, 2013, 10:39 PM
Everyone hates lawyers and politicians, do you really want to be one of the most hated people in the United States???

Actually, I'm going out of my way to become one of them. After the Bachelor's is finished, I'll be applying to law school. :)

Texshooter
March 6, 2013, 10:42 PM
Thank you!

Unbelievable that all the lawyer types (so smart) never even mentioned that possibility.

gfanikf
March 6, 2013, 10:52 PM
Thank you!

Unbelievable that all the lawyer types (so smart) never even mentioned that possibility.

Mentioned what?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

CharlieBT
March 6, 2013, 11:30 PM
Pick and choose parts of the Constitution? I'm 3/5ths for that. The other 2/5ths of me won't compromise, and the 2A falls in that category. So sue me.

somerandomguy
March 7, 2013, 09:48 AM
Pick and choose parts of the Constitution? I'm 3/5ths for that. The other 2/5ths of me won't compromise, and the 2A falls in that category. So sue me.
You not liking the constitution has caused me emotional distress and pain and suffering. LAWSUIT INITIATED. :neener:

zorro45
March 7, 2013, 10:21 AM
Just think of it as a very large ADT sign on the business. If I were a robber, that's one place I would avoid. Of course in Maine just about everybody has a gun so its not a very robber-friendly state.

bannockburn
March 7, 2013, 12:04 PM
I don't know; I like the overall message of the billboard just don't care for the Dirty Harry connection. A little bit too contrived for my sensibilities.

Akita1
March 7, 2013, 12:52 PM
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/001/582/picard-facepalm.jpg?1240934151
Amen; what does IP have to do with our beloved RKBA threads? Understood on the obvious risk here, but we're buzz-killing the beauty of it.

Texshooter
March 7, 2013, 06:22 PM
Mentioned what?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
that the owner of the billboard might already have permission.

gfanikf
March 7, 2013, 06:26 PM
that the owner of the billboard might already have permission.
Yeah I doubt that WB was going to license him the right to use that image. At best he could claim is a fair use defense, but no way that was licensed.

19-3Ben
March 7, 2013, 07:25 PM
Man.... what's with all the lawyer-hate? Jeebus. We're like the scapegoats of the professional world.

Actually, I'm going out of my way to become one of them. After the Bachelor's is finished, I'll be applying to law school.

Not as good of an idea as it used to be. It's waaay off topic for this thread so PM me if you're interested in discussing the pros/cons of this course of action, but it's definitely not the world of practice that it was 10 years ago.

X-JaVeN-X
March 7, 2013, 07:39 PM
Yeah I doubt that WB was going to license him the right to use that image. At best he could claim is a fair use defense, but no way that was licensed.
So you're going to make an argument based on the assumption that the business owner did not first gain permission?

Is that standard practice to operate under assumption?

BBQJOE
March 7, 2013, 08:20 PM
If I was a mod, I'd lock this puppy.

gfanikf
March 7, 2013, 08:55 PM
So you're going to make an argument based on the assumption that the business owner did not first gain permission?

Is that standard practice to operate under assumption?
I'm going to make an educated guess as a copyright lawyer who does extensive work in licensing.

X-JaVeN-X
March 8, 2013, 02:18 AM
I'm going to make an educated guess as a copyright lawyer who does extensive work in licensing.
I stopped listening after the word "guess"... To make an "educated" guess, you would need to be educated on this particular instance, and since all we really know is that some guy stuck dirty harry on a billboard, then my guess is just as good as yours at this point.

I've worked on computers for over a decade and have a BS in computer science as well as A+ and N+ certifications, but I wouldn't use this as a relevant argument to make an "educated guess" about somebody's computer issues when all they have told me is "My computer isn't working". So why would the fact that you do copyright law have any bearing on an issue where you know no relevant details about this business owner and the steps he took before having this billboard made? Maybe I just prefer informed decisions over educated guesses...I'm weird that way...

I'm done with this argument now...I like the billboard personally, and if it gets taken down because the owner broke some copyright law, then so be it...it'll be fun while it lasts.

BigBore44
March 8, 2013, 04:19 AM
I seriously doubt he intended the billboard to be anti-2A, seeing as how he quoted the 2A at the bottom. What I don't understand is why were the first comments and many following to be to say something along the lines of "oh he's gonna get sued, IP infringement, and all the negativity about Dirty Harry being a cop and him having the gun and not us"? Are you all freaking kidding me?!?!?

Now the cops are against us too right? "Well they are in New York and California" so a couple bad apples and now cops are bad? Sound fimiliar? Kinda like some whackos with guns giving all of us a bad name? You all amaze me. Talk about hipocracy. Last time I checked, cops were citizens also.

There was a time when people envisioned being like Dirty Harry. No frills, didn't take $&?@ from no one, save the day hero cop who got the job done. Maybe why so many people bought model 29's?? Not anymore. So sad. I love my 29. And I love that billboard.

But who cares. Lets bash on LEO's (how many members of THR are cops?) and lets find some reason to bash a gun owner who put up a billboard.

12131
March 8, 2013, 05:21 AM
Stealing someone's intellectual property rights to promote your own rights? It does seem contradictory.
And how did you come with this conclusion? Do you have all the facts of the case?

12131
March 8, 2013, 05:23 AM
I seriously doubt he intended the billboard to be anti-2A, seeing as how he quoted the 2A at the bottom. What I don't understand is why were the first comments and many following to be to say something along the lines of "oh he's gonna get sued, IP infringement, and all the negativity about Dirty Harry being a cop and him having the gun and not us"? Are you all freaking kidding me?!?!?

Now the cops are against us too right? "Well they are in New York and California" so a couple bad apples and now cops are bad? Sound fimiliar? Kinda like some whackos with guns giving all of us a bad name? You all amaze me. Talk about hipocracy. Last time I checked, cops were citizens also.

There was a time when people envisioned being like Dirty Harry. No frills, didn't take $&?@ from no one, save the day hero cop who got the job done. Maybe why so many people bought model 29's?? Not anymore. So sad. I love my 29. And I love that billboard.

But who cares. Lets bash on LEO's (how many members of THR are cops?) and lets find some reason to bash a gun owner who put up a billboard.
Thank you.

Bobson
March 8, 2013, 05:30 AM
I seriously doubt he intended the billboard to be anti-2A, seeing as how he quoted the 2A at the bottom. What I don't understand is why were the first comments and many following to be to say something along the lines of "oh he's gonna get sued, IP infringement, and all the negativity about Dirty Harry being a cop and him having the gun and not us"? Are you all freaking kidding me?!?!?

Now the cops are against us too right? "Well they are in New York and California" so a couple bad apples and now cops are bad? Sound fimiliar? Kinda like some whackos with guns giving all of us a bad name?

I love that billboard.
Wish I could give you a hug, man. I couldn't agree more.

I don't see how anyone can interpret his sign to be anti-2A unless they want to.

The picture and quote aren't even the point. Look at the same sign with no picture/quote at all. It's clearly a Pro-2A sign.

Look at the same sign with a picture that's clearly Anti-2A. It's still a Pro-2A sign!

Maybe the guy made a bad choice with the picture/quote, but nobody here knows whether or not he got permission, so it's a totally dead issue. Should have been squashed at post #3. The billboard itself is excellent.

gfanikf
March 8, 2013, 07:05 AM
I'm stopped listening when you mentioned you weren't a lawyer and had no knowledge of copyright law.

jrdolall
March 8, 2013, 08:24 AM
One big problem with internet lawyers is that they give out advice when it wasn't requested. This thread got hijacked by internet copyright lawyers discussing things that were in no way related to the OP. It is a billboard. A business owner put it up. His business his sign.
I wish my lawyers, the real ones, would call me with free advice. I have to call them and give them my firstborn.

joeschmoe
March 8, 2013, 03:33 PM
Communists do not support IP either. It's a Capitalist principle.

X-JaVeN-X
March 8, 2013, 09:29 PM
I'm stopped listening when you mentioned you weren't a lawyer and had no knowledge of copyright law.
So what you're saying is you still have no info to base your argument...gotcha...Don't be mad that your bigshot lawyer ego got thumped by a lowly computer tech using simple logic...

gfanikf
March 8, 2013, 11:59 PM
So what you're saying is you still have no info to base your argument...gotcha...Don't be mad that your bigshot lawyer ego got thumped by a lowly computer tech using simple logic...
I got enough info to base it on, I'm sorry if you can't accept that.

DammitBoy
March 9, 2013, 12:07 AM
Man.... what's with all the lawyer-hate? Jeebus. We're like the scapegoats of the professional world.


Yeah, there's a reason for that - the same reason most sleazy greedy fake politicians are lawyers...

Frank Ettin
March 9, 2013, 12:28 AM
Good God, what a hairball.

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