Most rounds without cleaning...


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blkbrd666
March 5, 2013, 09:00 PM
What is the most rounds you have shot through a semiauto handgun without cleaning it?

I didn't take the time to clean one of my handguns after a few trips to the range, which turned into a test to see how long the gun would go without a cleaning. I eventually couldn't stand the looks of it, because it was Inox and just looked bad, so I broke down and cleaned it. It was a Beretta 92FS. I managed to put just over 1000 rounds through it and it was still functioning although it was mostly black.

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Plan2Live
March 5, 2013, 09:58 PM
Unnecessary roughness.

Scuba_Steve
March 5, 2013, 10:18 PM
I shoot frequently and really see no reason to clean any more Often than 500+ rounds through a firearm.

Of course, I also no longer subscribe to the 3000 mile oil change advice. Using synthetic oil, change once per year and even with track days, analysis shows the oil has not broken down and is still providing full lubrication.

rcmodel
March 5, 2013, 10:30 PM
I have only been shooting for about 60 years or so.
But my old daddy the WWII solder, taught me to clean my guns after I shot them.

Then, 18 years later, my Army drill Sargent taught me the same thing.

Then 10 years later, I taught Army trainee's the same thing.

So I don't know how many rounds I have shot in one day without cleaning.
Maybe 50 on a good day with a 4.2" Morter?
Maybe 500+ on a good day with a rifle or pistol?
Maybe 5,000+ on a good day with a machinegun?

But at the end of the day, whether you shot 1 round, or 5,000 rounds?
You clean the gun.


Kinda like those who don't brush their teeth if they didn't eat much that day.

It's just not good personal hygiene to let your teeth, or your gun go to bed dirty!!

So, You shot it, you should clean it!!
Like my old daddy, and the old Army DI told me.

A clean gun might save your life some day.
And it will for sure last longer.

rc

Bovice
March 5, 2013, 10:35 PM
Letting a gun purposely go a long time between cleanings is a bad idea. The firing residue caught in the lube is now an abrasive once the residue is so much that the lube is unable to keep it in suspension.

When you shell out your hard earned money for a gun, you don't feel like torture testing.

481
March 5, 2013, 10:39 PM
I am waaaay too obsessive to let my guns go longer than a day or two (after a training course) after shooting.

Like that ol' Tootsie Pop commercial used to say- "The world may never know."

:)

Bobson
March 5, 2013, 10:44 PM
I cleaned my Glock before I ever took it to the range. Only been around 500 rounds through it so far, but I haven't cleaned it since that first time. I might just do it tomorrow.

ku4hx
March 5, 2013, 10:50 PM
Does not compute. Guns are cleaned every time they're fired ... every time. I was taught to keep my guns clean circa 1959 and I've seen no reason to alter the routine.

Cleaning guns is relaxing to me. The way I see it guns are like teeth, keep 'em cleaned and properly maintained and they'll last a lifetime and serve you well in the process.

Bobson
March 5, 2013, 10:58 PM
Cleaning guns is relaxing to me. The way I see it guns are like teeth, keep 'em cleaned and properly maintained and they'll last a lifetime and serve you well in the process.
Idk why but I never thought of it like that. I was a dental assistant for close to five years, and that's a remarkable analogy. I'm going to use it in the future.

I'll also keep my guns clean from now on. :p

breakingcontact
March 5, 2013, 11:00 PM
Clean after every time I shoot them so around 300 max. My gun doesn't have an oil filter.

BCRider
March 6, 2013, 03:14 AM
An avid shooting buddy began having trouble with his Glock at one of our IDPA practice nights. Later over coffee he offered up that it was likely well over 5000 rounds since the last time he broke it down to clean it.

I suspect that he's been pondering the question since he had to shift over to his CZ to finish the session off.

I simply do not clean my guns after each range session. Although I likely clean my semis every 500 to 600 rounds and my revolvers a little more often since I shoot cast bullets from the revolvers and the lead and lube tends to gum things up that much sooner compared to jacketed.

On another forum I'm on there's an older guy which was part of a rather widely held opinion that with .22 target rifles it's simply not a good idea to clean the bores unless they are noticably leading up.

Obviously there's a lot of issues related to cleaning a gun. In the case of semi autos conditions that the barrel bore will easily tolerate and still shoot accurately will seize up the action in a blink. So the need to clean the guns isn't always related to the bore condition.

ColtPythonElite
March 6, 2013, 04:53 AM
I used to clean after every range trip. I finally learned that ritual was hampering my enjoyment....Now,I shoot about half the days of the month and shoot multiple guns each day. There's no way I am cleaning after every range trip....Yesterday day I shot a 1911. I would guess its seen about 1 k rounds since being stripped and cleaned. Hasn't had a single malfunction in that time.

BC,

I shoot .22 benchrest. I do not clean my target rifles until the groups open up. After cleaning and stripping out the bullet lube, it usually takes 15+ rounds to get them back grouping well.

As a general rule, I don't clean my guns unless I think they need it, not just because they were fired.

bikerdoc
March 6, 2013, 07:02 AM
You shoot it, you clean it.

Like R C said too many mentors from the past drilled that into my head.

jdh
March 6, 2013, 07:28 AM
10,000. Was an instructor during the change from revolver to semi. We had to make sure them newfanagled contraptions were going to work.

Walt Sherrill
March 6, 2013, 07:40 AM
But my old daddy the WWII solder, taught me to clean my guns after I shot them.

A lot of us were TAUGHT how to clean guns by WWII vets. Thing is, WWII ammo was corrosive, and if you didn't clean often the guns could literally RUST SHUT. It's not that way anymore! We've all read of the tests that run thousands of rounds, and the guns still function.

The firing residue caught in the lube is now an abrasive once the residue is so much that the lube is unable to keep it in suspension.

That seems like a good point, but if it wasn't terribly abrasive while you're shooting it, why does it become super-abrasive if the gun is setting unfired? How is a long day at the range any different than several short sessions at the range?

rbernie
March 6, 2013, 08:38 AM
I do not carry my range guns or use them for HD/SD purposes. They tend to stay in the range bag until I get so sick of them being ugly that I clean them.

I've probably let a S&W M&P and a CZ75B go for about 5K rounds each more than a time or two, and a handful of 1911's go as far as 7K rounds between cleanings. The CZ and M&P triggers got kinda sluggish at the end from all of the cast bullet lube spooge, but the 1911's acted like they could have kept going indefintely. And no, none of them had any significant barrel fouling even after all those rounds. I wouldn't put the guns and ammo into range use if I didn't first make sure that the combo was working well.

skywalkrNCSU
March 6, 2013, 08:49 AM
Who knows the last time I cleaned my Glock, probably 1000+ rounds ago. You would never know it by shooting it though.

hardluk1
March 6, 2013, 03:37 PM
My carry pistols get cleaned and lubed when new and then fire to atleast 500 rounds to proof the handgun. Then cleaned and lubed again for carry.

Sam1911
March 6, 2013, 03:43 PM
I once shot a 1911 until the crud inside slowed the cycling to the point that it started to not quite get back into battery. I guesstimated that was maybe 4,000 rds. I doused some oil on top of the barrel and finished out the match, then cleaned it well that night.

Most of the time I'm pretty good about cleaning. Probably every 500-1,000 rounds whether they need it or not.

TX Plinker
March 6, 2013, 03:46 PM
I have only been shooting for about 60 years or so.
But my old daddy the WWII solder, taught me to clean my guns after I shot them.

Then, 18 years later, my Army drill Sargent taught me the same thing.

Then 10 years later, I taught Army trainee's the same thing.

So I don't know how many rounds I have shot in one day without cleaning.
Maybe 50 on a good day with a 4.2" Morter?
Maybe 500+ on a good day with a rifle or pistol?
Maybe 5,000+ on a good day with a machinegun?

But at the end of the day, whether you shot 1 round, or 5,000 rounds?
You clean the gun.


Kinda like those who don't brush their teeth if they didn't eat much that day.

It's just not good personal hygiene to let your teeth, or your gun go to bed dirty!!

So, You shot it, you should clean it!!
Like my old daddy, and the old Army DI told me.

A clean gun might save your life some day.
And it will for sure last longer.

rc
Well, I clean my guns at least once a week; but I don't clean my teeth or shower once a week. Guns tend to be more durable (not to mention don't smell as bad) to neglect than the human body. :p

The Lone Haranguer
March 6, 2013, 05:40 PM
I put ~800 rounds through a Sig P239 once without cleaning, no stoppages. But I would not have carried it until it was cleaned.

psyopspec
March 6, 2013, 05:45 PM
About 2200 rounds through my G34 (IDPA gun) last season. No issues with the gun during that time.

Godsgunman
March 6, 2013, 05:55 PM
No more than 150 rounds or so. If anything I'm guilty of being an over cleaner of my guns. None of my guns (handguns) are just target guns, they all find their way into my carry rotation so they are usually only dirty for the amount of time it takes me to get back home from the range. They get cleaned and put back in the holster and ready for duty. They are reliable enough to carry even when dirty but it doesn't make sense not to clean them to ensure they will be reliable when called upon.

Kiln
March 6, 2013, 05:57 PM
I usually clean after every range trip. No reason to run it dirty unless you're testing for function under bad circumstances.

HOOfan_1
March 6, 2013, 06:05 PM
250-300 one range trip

HOOfan_1
March 6, 2013, 06:08 PM
Idk why but I never thought of it like that. I was a dental assistant for close to five years, and that's a remarkable analogy. I'm going to use it in the future.

I'll also keep my guns clean from now on. :p

ha, like a poster in my dentist's office says, you don't have to floss all your teeth, just the ones you want to keep.

Arkansas Paul
March 6, 2013, 06:29 PM
Centerfires, not very many.
Rimfire, God only knows how many. And he may have lost count.

WoodchuckAssassin
March 6, 2013, 06:38 PM
Centerfires and handguns I make sure to clean after EVERY range/woods trip. My dad likes to pick on me because he's NEVER cleaned a gun in his entire life.

My 22's...I'm a little more laxs with. My 10/22 went what may have been 1,000,000 rounds without cleaning. I've given it one complete, breakdown cleaning in its life. It was a real pain in the ass, so I probably wont do that again for another 5 years.

My shotguns? I didn't even know they needed cleaning before joining TheHighRoad. I still haven't cleaned them, and honestly...I don't plan to. Does that make me a bad person? Probably.

newglockguy
March 6, 2013, 06:41 PM
Sometimes I get lazy after a long range day and I'll clean my guns the day after. Otherwise I clean them after I shoot them. The most ever for my was when I took a couple friends shooting and we put around 450 rounds through my glock.

Inebriated
March 6, 2013, 07:24 PM
My MKIII 22/45 hasn't been cleaned in about 2k rounds. Still running strong. I just hate cleaning it.

My carry/defense guns get cleaned after every range trip. All other guns get cleaned as I feel like cleaning them.

Ash
March 6, 2013, 07:34 PM
To me, the relaxing part of the day is sitting on the porch and cleaning my firearms after a day's shoot. I clean, I think, I consider, I drink some coffee, I finish and put them away. Sure beats an equal amount of time wasted on reality tv.

Boostedtwo
March 6, 2013, 10:08 PM
I perfer to clean my weapons as soon as I get home from the range.

el Godfather
March 7, 2013, 12:25 AM
Rcmodel summed up this thread in post #4

At the end of your firing session- you clean your gun.

For me cleaning my weapons is integral part of the hobby. Some people let their guns go dirty for long times thinking they are replicating an army-war like experience, but all their mental excitement is achieving is wear and tear on the gun. Its not going to make you a Rambo.

Other than being just lazy I dont see the point of letting your gun go dirty. It has apparent disadvantages but ZERO advantages.

justice06rr
March 7, 2013, 01:26 AM
I have not cleaned my AK and Glock19 for a couple of months, even after shooting hundreds of rounds in them.

Some people are anal about cleaning their guns, some not so much. Depends on the gun and the person. I used to clean my guns after every session, but not so much lately.

Ash
March 7, 2013, 07:42 AM
Of course, the opposite could be stated: some folks are lazy about taking care of their stuff. Depends on the gun and the person. I used to put my tools away greasy, but learned they worked better when properly wiped down before putting them away.

Putting my firearms back properly cleaned means I don't open up the case/safe and find a nasty surprise. Hard to suffer regret that way.

guyfromohio
March 7, 2013, 08:01 AM
I clean within a couple days of shooting every time. My shotguns don't even go in the safe until they're spotless. I obsess a little.

CajunBass
March 7, 2013, 08:32 AM
I clean my guns more because I don't want black, sooty residue on my fingers and clothes than because I think they need to be cleaned.

I used to clean 22's every February 29th rather they needed it or not. I'm a little better these days, but not much.

How many rounds? I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that I once ran about a thousand through a Hi-Point and it worked just fine.

Godsgunman
March 7, 2013, 10:30 AM
To add to my earlier post, the most I've gone with a rifle is probably 500 rnds. The Saiga is much more of a hassle to clean than others and they run no matter what you do to them. With that one going uncleaned after a session of 100 or so doesn't bother me.

Walt Sherrill
March 7, 2013, 10:33 AM
For me cleaning my weapons is integral part of the hobby. Some people let their guns go dirty for long times thinking they are replicating an army-war like experience, but all their mental excitement is achieving is wear and tear on the gun. Its not going to make you a Rambo.

I understand and appreciate the "cleaning my weapons is integral part" mindset. I was that way, too, about 10-15 years ago. Not so much, nowadays.

As for your other comments:

Under combat conditions -- which nowadays generally seems to take place in environments that are much nastier than what we'll ever experience here in the U.S. or most of Europe -- guns are cleaned regularly, not to prevent rust, or assure proper lube -- but more often to make sure that crap hasn't gotten into areas where the crap will affect function. Modern guns don't rust that easily, and generally don't need that much lubrication. Most civilians participating here aren't moving on foot through swamps or crawling through desert scrub... RAMBO was fiction.

I will also argue that gun-cleaning is NOT a religious ritual -- but if it gives you comfort, do it!!

wdunlap
March 7, 2013, 12:10 PM
In one day of shooting with multiple friends, we put exactly 800 rounds through my S&W Sigma 40 VE. It was dirty and took a nice long bath afterwards. I must say the last full magazine fired just like the first. We were surprised how many rounds we shot once we counted empty boxes. There were no failures of any kind experienced. It's not my most expensive pistol, but it is the one in my nightstand because of its reliability.

gunsablazin
March 7, 2013, 12:45 PM
I was testing a new grease in my Springfield 1911, and wanted to see if it was as god as advertised. I ran 1,000 rds of lead reloads through it over the course of a couple of weeks. I gave up and cleaned it, the gun never jammed, and the grease went from red to black, but never ran dry. I still use the grease and the pistol. I always to keep my carry guns cleaned and lubed properly, range toys like .22s get cleaned when they need it, certainly not every trip.

mljdeckard
March 7, 2013, 12:51 PM
There is something to be said for the discipline and respect for keeping guns clean. However, I think that the army seriously overcleans guns. They are so obsessed with the appearance of cleanliness, they don't much care if they cause unnecessary wear and damage. There used to be a real reason to clean immediately, every time, when we used corrosive primers. We don't anymore.

The other side to the coin is, if your carry gun won't run when it's a bit dirty, do you really want to trust your life to it? I clean my carry 1911 about every 200 rounds, or when it starts to get visually dirty. I have gone a lot longer than that, and it still ran fine. I have run my .22 conversion kit until the rounds wouldn't chamber, hosed it with a shot of gunscrubber, and kept going for another 500 rounds. I know competitive 3-gunners who have NEVER cleaned their competition guns, they lube them and they keep running. I have cranked through 1-1/2 cases of S&B imported birdshot in one afternoon with my Remington 870 Express, schnick-click bang every time.

Someone else mentioned that 3000 miles between oil changes is the OLD rule. Machines are made to a higher standard than they used to be.

TarDevil
March 7, 2013, 12:56 PM
At first I cleaned my guns after every shooting session. With my Ruger, I realized there just wasn't much to clean. I let it go a few hundred rounds these days.

ny32182
March 7, 2013, 01:51 PM
The key to keeping them running is lube, moreso than cleanliness.

Both my Glock and M&P (granted, with match power factor ammo and 13lb springs) with no lube will start intermittent faliure to go all the way into battery at about 500 rounds with no cleaning. A shot of lube when needed, will apparently make them run pretty much indefinitely.

Realistically I probably clean my m&p that I shoot now about every 500 rounds on average. I used to clean it at the end of every weekend but not so much any more. I do always clean it before a big match, but am less obsessive between matches now, so these days it could be anywhere between a hundred rounds or 1k depending on when I get the itch.

I detail strip and really detail it and replace some parts now every 5 to 10k depending.

JRH6856
March 7, 2013, 01:51 PM
What is "clean"? Different guns require different care. Some just need spaying with brake cleaner and compressed air and then lubed, others need the barrel/chambers scrubbed with solvent or bore cleaner. All should to be fully broken down and cleaned thoroughly at some point if fired regularly, some more more often than others. YMMV

A lot depends on what I shoot. Cast lead required more barrel scrubbing than jacketed of plated bullets. Shooting .38s in my .357 requires cleaning before shooting .357. Cleaning after every shooting session is a must with corrosive primers, but I don't shoot that. Carry guns should always be kept clean for reliability and to keep the gunk off your clothes.

OregonJohnny
March 7, 2013, 02:13 PM
I usually clean my guns within a day or two after a range trip.

However, I used my Beretta 92FS for an 8-hour, 300-round defensive pistol course last summer. I even got blood on the Beretta that day! When I got home that night, I was too tired to clean it. I said I'd get around to it. A few days turned into a week or two, at which point, I was going to get to the range again soon, and just said I'd clean it after that trip. I think I put another 100 rounds through it.

So about 400 rounds without cleaning, through a Beretta 92FS. Of course, not a single malfunction or hiccup of any kind during those 400 rounds of various ammo types and weights.

It now has over 2,000 flawless rounds through it.

Now, if you include long guns into the discussion - I had much less stringent cleaning principles as a teenager, and a perfectly good Remington 870 12-gauge went many summers and probably thousands of rounds of birdshot without much more than a swab down the barrel every now and then. That 870 just wouldn't stop.

ATLDave
March 7, 2013, 02:25 PM
A point that someone made here one time, and that seemed reasonably perusasive to me:

It's possible to put a gun back together incorrectly. With some guns, it's possible to do so and not notice the problem until you try to fire it. If the reliability of the gun is essential, the best time to clean the gun is right BEFORE you go to the range.

As long as you're not using corrosive materials, gunk sitting on a gun causes no wear. Shooting the gun with gunk on it might cause wear, as do certain cleaning methods/practices. But, unlike food sitting on teeth casuing/fueling the growth of bacteria, there's no difference between a gun one hour after shooting and one month after shooting, except to the extent that oil/lube has evaporated or migrated. And that happens whether a gun is clean or not.

psyopspec
March 7, 2013, 03:28 PM
It's possible to put a gun back together incorrectly. With some guns, it's possible to do so and not notice the problem until you try to fire it. If the reliability of the gun is essential, the best time to clean the gun is right BEFORE you go to the range.


If I have time and the range has the space, I'll clean a defensive gun after a range session while I'm still at the range. Load up, and run one more magazine through it. From there, holster or take it back to the nightstand.

I admit it's not a necessity, but for CCW, it gives me a small measure of comfort knowing that the last thing the gun did before it went in the holster was function properly.

243winxb
March 7, 2013, 03:43 PM
With cast bullets it takes at least 50 rounds to just condition the barrel for best accuracy. Clean when there is a problem feeding or chambering. Or clean before a match & condition the bbl with 50 rounds.

marb4
March 7, 2013, 04:30 PM
I have a Ruger SR22 pistol that I keep in the safe to plink with in the back yard that rarely gets cleaned. Maybe once every 500 rounds or so and this is with filthy bulk 22 ammo.

Other than that I clean after every range trip. Probably don't need to but its the way I was taught and old habits are hard to break.

hey_poolboy
March 7, 2013, 04:54 PM
I think there is a "difference" in cleaning the gun and cleaning the bore. I tend to clean the bottom of my 1911' s more than I clean the bore. I shoot mostly lead and have found that the accuracy is better after 30-40 rounds.
I've gone from only cleaning every 1k or so to cleaning based on when I may next be able to shoot the gun again. If it's gonna sit for a while I clean the whole thing. If I'm gonna shoot again later in the week I'll field strip and wipe out the remnants of Bullseye or W231 and call it good.
I used to be more obsessive over cleaning, but life is too short.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Ash
March 7, 2013, 08:38 PM
Walt, some of us climb through swamps...

Sinking Spanish ruins normally submerged. I've got a research project on the site and if you look closely, you can see the water-stains on the brick surrounding the casement tunnel. The other photo shows the same tunnel in water. The third photo shows tunnels on the opposite side.

Walt Sherrill
March 7, 2013, 08:54 PM
Walt, some of us climb through swamps...

You'll notice I wrote "most civilians..."

So, are you CARRYING during those treks? (I suspect I'd want to be...) If so, what weapon and what loads?


.

Ash
March 7, 2013, 10:05 PM
Stainless Ruger Police Service Six in .357. I use Remington hollow points. I have also carried an EAA Witness in .45acp with Golden Sabres. The historian I work with carries a Beretta INOX. They get muddy, very muddy. Humidity is very high and there's plenty of brackish water.

We've made some outstanding discoveries that will soon be published.

RedAlert
March 8, 2013, 04:43 PM
I don't understand the OP on this topic. To me it sounds just like if he wants to know how often a person can beat their head against the wall before he is knocked out. Sure you can do it; but why?
Weapons are machines that function best when well maintained.

Walt Sherrill
March 8, 2013, 05:24 PM
Weapons are machines that function best when well maintained.

True, but what YOU might consider "well maintained" may differ from what someone else considers "well maintained."

Ash
March 8, 2013, 06:44 PM
At the same time, what is the big deal that folks would prefer to put things away clean? I do the same to my dishes, even though I am reasonably certain my glass can take a few months without cleaning.

F-111 John
March 8, 2013, 07:39 PM
I'm a revolver guy and I thoroughly clean my firearms after every range session. It's a fairly long and dirty process, especially cleaning the cylinder faces and around the forcing cones. I end up with a pile of dirty patches and about 20-30 minutes per wheelgun.

Got a G26 last December, and after it's maiden run at the range, I brought it home to clean it, and I couldn't believe how clean it was inside. It was almost as if it was never fired at all. If it was that clean after 150 rounds, then I can see why some go 500+ between cleanings.

(I also field stripped and cleaned my G26 new out of the box before the first trip to the range.)

usp9
March 9, 2013, 08:33 PM
A short quote from the interesting Greg Bell "Break my P2000" thread.

"I cleaned the pistol this week. The gun was insanely nasty. It was so gross I just let it soak on Thursday before I finished brushing all the mess off on Friday before I went shooting. I did not really notice any difference. The P2000 really is foolproof. The gun not only had not been cleaned in 4000 rounds, it hadn’t been lubricated. The gun was DRY as a bone and it could care less."

He goes another 4 or 5 thousand rounds without cleaning later on in the test.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-reference-library/51749-project-break-my-p2000.html

I'd never do that to a gun but it's good to know how tough they really are, and that some of them really do not need to be pampered.

Walt Sherrill
March 9, 2013, 09:57 PM
I tried a similar exercise some years back with a CZ. I put about 3000 rounds through it before it finally became so nasty (when the slide was open) that I was ashamed to let anyone see it. I cleaned it.

It continued to function throughout that period, which was maybe 4-5 months, of regular practice and IDPA matches.

Shifty
March 10, 2013, 06:27 AM
I seriously do not understand this debate.... Why would you not clean and lubricate a complex machine subjected to high temperature, stress, and having sliding metal parts? Just because it still works doesn't mean its good for the weapon.

Walt Sherrill
March 10, 2013, 11:37 AM
Couldn't you use that SAME rationale to change the oil in your car every 1000 miles, rather than 3,000, 5,000 miles (or higher, with synthetic oils)? That engine is a lot more complex than your handgun, and it's arguably operating at very high temperatures over a range of conditions, and sometimes under much greater stress, etc., etc.

Shifty
March 11, 2013, 02:40 AM
Yeah, I concede the point on that.

My comment was more aimed at those that do not feel the need to clean their firearms until they malfunction.

aliveisalive
March 11, 2013, 03:33 AM
I hate cleaning in every sense. Just like most things I only clean once it really bothers me. This lackluster approach has led to some surface rust but never anything else. I now wipe my guns Dow. More often but still don't clean them much. They keep on shooting.


It also helps that I rarely keep a gun for more than 500 rounds before its traded =p

Ash
March 11, 2013, 07:46 AM
Walt, that's an exaggeration. Nobody here recommends cleaning a gun after every magazine, which is the same as changing oil every 1,000 miles (which is to say, more often than what has always been conventionally done). The same argument perhaps could be in changing synthetics every 3,000 miles - but that has absolutely nothing to do with the design of engines, only in the design of lubricants.

It is apples and oranges. You change the oil, yes, because it has become dirty but more because it has begun to break down. Not all engines, by the way, should use synthetics. Even so, more modern engines can often have MORE problems with sludge, not less.

If you want to use a cleaning analogy, our bodies are a better representation. Yeah, we can get by without taking a bath daily - that is the case in most of the world already. But I choose to bathe. You can get by running a dirty gun, but I choose to clean mine. You can get by with a dirty house, but I choose to clean mine, too.

ku4hx
March 11, 2013, 10:27 AM
It also helps that I rarely keep a gun for more than 500 rounds before its traded =p
I can't even imagine that. For me and my wife that would be a trade every other range trip. But then I'm an old curmudgeon still driving my 1999 Ford F150 and still shooting my Remington model 67 .22 rifle.

One of my great joys is drinking beer and cleaning guns ... sort of a Zen thing. So much so my wife kids me about it. Mind you, that's cleaning and not shooting.

Walt Sherrill
March 11, 2013, 11:02 AM
Walt, that's an exaggeration. Nobody here recommends cleaning a gun after every magazine, which is the same as changing oil every 1,000 miles (which is to say, more often than what has always been conventionally done). The same argument perhaps could be in changing synthetics every 3,000 miles - but that has absolutely nothing to do with the design of engines, only in the design of lubricants.

It is apples and oranges. You change the oil, yes, because it has become dirty but more because it has begun to break down. Not all engines, by the way, should use synthetics. Even so, more modern engines can often have MORE problems with sludge, not less.

And what is the handgun equivalent of sludge? I'll bet you see it more in cars than guns.

Given the experiences cited in this long chain of messages, of extended periods and high round counts between cleanings without malfunctions or failures, it would appear that the analogy we're using has nothing to do with GUN MAINTENANCE or DESIGN, either.

If powder and primers were still corrosive (and some milsurp ammo used with milsurp weapon is corrosive) then the story might be different, and the analogy apt. As I've said before, clean as often as you want to, but don't expect everyone else to do as you do.

There is little evidence that the intense, frequent, and rigorous cleaning is necessary, a small bit of evidence that it may be as harmful as good, and a lot of evidence that going either route (cleaning either frequently or infrequently) is not going to cause problems. Going to extremes is what seems to cause problems.

Some here seem to consider cleaning weapons a necessary religious ritual. Fine. But not everyone is a true believer.


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jdh
March 11, 2013, 02:53 PM
If you want to use a cleaning analogy, our bodies are a better representation. Yeah, we can get by without taking a bath daily - that is the case in most of the world already. But I choose to bathe. You can get by running a dirty gun, but I choose to clean mine. You can get by with a dirty house, but I choose to clean mine, too.

As with everything in life too much of a good thing can be a bad thing. There once was a compulsive cleaner who scrubbed he counter tops everyday with a scouring pad. Couldn't understand why her pretty laminate was now a solid dull brown. Excessive cleaning of the skin can lead to problems of an uncomfortable nature.

Ash
March 11, 2013, 07:32 PM
Excessive, yes. But cleaning after a range session and putting it away clean is not excessive.

Excessive would be cleaning after every shot.

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