Nevada no longer recognizes Arizona CCW


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Twiki357
March 5, 2013, 11:01 PM
According to the news tonight (3/5/13), Nevada will no longer recognize an Arizona concealed carry permit as of this weekend. The news coverage was, as usual, rather nebulous, but it was reportedly the result of a vote by the Nevada sheriffs association because Arizona's "training" requirements are not as stringent as Nevadas.

I'm not very familiar with Nevada law, but I wonder how this decision comes about by the sheriffs association without any action by the state legislature. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

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Quick Shot xMLx
March 5, 2013, 11:08 PM
More states need to do what NC did and simply recognize every CCW regardless of origin.

Bobson
March 5, 2013, 11:12 PM
Aren't CCW permits approved or disproved by a county sheriff in all states? If so, that would seem to make sense.

More states need to do what NC did and simply recognize every CCW regardless of origin.
Or just institute constitutional carry nationwide. That would be a bit more ideal.

hoji
March 5, 2013, 11:12 PM
They don't recognize Texas CHL either.

danez71
March 5, 2013, 11:44 PM
Being discussed here as well

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=706591

Twiki357
March 6, 2013, 12:54 AM
Bobson; Here in AZ a county sheriff has no say in the matter. The AZ State Department of Public Safety is the sole authority. It varies by state. Some permits are issued by states, some by counties, and some by cities (Think Chicago.)

PlaneJain
March 6, 2013, 12:57 AM
It's all about the dollar. They just want to create more revenue for their own state. Thats why they don't allow other states licenses.

Bobson
March 6, 2013, 01:00 AM
Bobson; Here in AZ a county sheriff has no say in the matter. The AZ State Department of Public Safety is the sole authority. It varies by state. Some permits are issued by states, some by counties, and some by cities (Think Chicago.)
Thanks. I've never bothered even looking into the permit process with anything more than a quick skim out of curiosity.

HOOfan_1
March 6, 2013, 01:08 AM
Aren't CCW permits approved or disproved by a county sheriff in all states? If so, that would seem to make sense.


Or just institute constitutional carry nationwide. That would be a bit more ideal.

Circuit Court judge in Virginia

tjschul
March 6, 2013, 01:11 AM
Another state that will not see a dime of my tourist dollar.
CA and Oregon are the other two so far.

Bobson
March 6, 2013, 03:09 AM
Another state that will not see a dime of my tourist dollar.
CA and Oregon are the other two so far.
Why not New York? When I met my wife, she told me she's always wanted to visit NYC. I told her as long as she's with me, she'll never visit anywhere in New York. Since then, California and New Jersey have been added to the list.

It's a shame - I've always wanted to see the statue of liberty. Problem is the statue seems to mean less and less these days. Oh well.

Bill4282
March 6, 2013, 03:16 AM
TN reciprocity is handled by the State Attorney General by signing an agreement with the appropriate issuing authority in the other State. I believe TN WILL accept any other State.

c4v3man
March 6, 2013, 03:18 AM
My question would be why would someone have an arizona permit anyways? Why not just get an out of state utah or florida permit? It's not like you need a permit to carry in AZ anyways.

Dentite
March 6, 2013, 03:24 AM
My question would be why would someone have an arizona permit anyways? Why not just get an out of state utah or florida permit? It's not like you need a permit to carry in AZ anyways

There are a few reasons:

1. You live in AZ and you want reciprocity in other states.
2. You do need a CCW permit to carry concealed in a restaurant that serves alcohol.
3. Ease of purchasing firearms through dealers and in face to face transactions.
4. God forbid you ever have to use your weapon to defend yourself but having a CCW permit could help make an investigation go smoother if you do have to use it.

I'm not saying that because of these reasons everyone should have one, but these are some advantages to having one.

DNS
March 6, 2013, 03:25 AM
My vacation dollars will be spent elsewhere.
Bye bye Vegas.
:(

chris in va
March 6, 2013, 03:39 AM
Why not New York? When I met my wife, she told me she's always wanted to visit NYC. I told her as long as she's with me, she'll never visit anywhere in New York. Since then, California and New Jersey have been added to the list.

I'm sorry but that's an absurd statement. Having visited NJ/NY several times I can say you and your wife are missing out on a lot of amazing things. Firearms aren't all-encompassing. God forbid you visit a foreign country.:rolleyes:

Clean97GTI
March 6, 2013, 03:45 AM
My vacation dollars will be spent elsewhere.
Bye bye Vegas.
:(

Where else are you going to go for a Vegas-like experience?
Reno is out and Atlantic city NJ is even worse than NV. Besides, open carry is legal in NV.

Bobson
March 6, 2013, 03:48 AM
Having visited NJ/NY several times I can say you and your wife are missing out on a lot of amazing things. Firearms aren't all-encompassing. God forbid you visit a foreign country.Already seen a great majority of the countries I have interest in seeing. Anyway, travel wasn't the point, so much as the fact that it's a real atrocity when a citizen of a "free" country must stay in certain parts of that country if he wants to have a right to self-defense.

Seeing the statue of liberty in person isn't going to help me sleep at night. Knowing I have the potential to protect my family does. Frankly, as of late, seeing the Statue of Liberty would probably annoy me more than anything else anyway.

Statue of Liberty . . . SoL... now that's irony.

sonick808
March 6, 2013, 08:07 AM
(to expand on an earlier comment) Another major benefit of a -current- AZ permit is that you don't have to get a NICS check done when you purchase. FIll out 4473, pay, leave.

I also like to have it just to establish a base level of seriousness regarding concealed carry.

As for NV, LV is tacky and I already have enough desert landscape in AZ so... oh well

AlbertH
March 6, 2013, 08:57 AM
Michigan now honors any resident concealed permit except for Illinois. but will not honor any non resident permit.

I personally think that in the future more and more states will no longer honor non resident permits anywhere other than the state they are issued in. Why the need for a non resident permit in liew of a resident permit in the first place other than if you have a second residence there or do business on a regular basis.

I am sorry but if you are ineligible for a resident concealed weapons permit. I don't want you carrying concealed.

There must be a valid reason if your states concealed permit isn't reciprocal with some states, maybe you should put forth your efforts to make the changes necessary in your states requirements so it becomes reciprocal nationwide rather than trying to change others requirements.

Other states would not have the requirements they they do if they were unconstitutional.

12many
March 6, 2013, 02:37 PM
I believe the underlying rule is that NV will recognize CCP of other states if the other states requirements to get the CCP are the same as or greater than NV. NV requires a class and shooting requirement. If the other state does not have these element, NV will not accept. I not sure on this as I have not researched it for years.

Basically NV has minimum requirements. Whether you meet those Min. requirement in NV or another state, no problem. If you don't meet NV min requirement, no CCP from NV or reciprocity. Some State bars and college classes are the same way.

Did AZ lower their requirements to get a CCP?

12many
March 6, 2013, 02:40 PM
http://carsonnow.org/story/03/04/2013/nevada-no-longer-recognizes-arizona-s-concealed-weapon-permits

c4v3man
March 6, 2013, 02:48 PM
Where else are you going to go for a Vegas-like experience?
Reno is out and Atlantic city NJ is even worse than NV. Besides, open carry is legal in NV.

As far as I'm aware, the casinos don't take too kindly to open carry, so you're not really going to get a "vegas experience" with open carry in NV.

Don't get me wrong I think the law change is bogus, and I'd prefer constitutional carry in our state. With the way the state's been leaning as of late I wouldn't expect that to pass anytime soon.

HOOfan_1
March 6, 2013, 03:02 PM
I'm sorry but that's an absurd statement. Having visited NJ/NY several times I can say you and your wife are missing out on a lot of amazing things. Firearms aren't all-encompassing. God forbid you visit a foreign country.:rolleyes:

I've been to upstate New York...great country...not much different from Virginia though...I did like Ft. William Henry and Saratoga and Ft. Ticonderoga. There is nothing in NYC which interests me at all....not the sights, not the people and most especially not the laws.

gazpacho
March 6, 2013, 04:47 PM
Apparently, getting a CCW in Arizona is no longer as stringent as getting one in Nevada. I applaud AZ for lowering their citizens 2A rights, but Nevada cops still have to follow NV law.

In Nevada, you have to show you can make the gun go bang, as well as put at least 30 rounds from a revolver into the 7 ring of a B27 target at 5 yards, to a qualified instructor. 36 rounds if it's an automatic.


NRS 202.3689  Department to prepare list of states that meet certain requirements concerning permits; Department to provide copy of list to law enforcement agencies in this State; Department to make list available to public.
1.  On or before July 1 of each year, the Department shall:
(a) Examine the requirements for the issuance of a permit to carry a concealed firearm in each state and determine whether the requirements of each state are substantially similar to or more stringent than the requirements set forth in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive.
(b) Determine whether each state has an electronic database which identifies each individual who possesses a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm issued by that state and which a law enforcement officer in this State may access at all times through a national law enforcement telecommunications system.
(c) Prepare a list of states that meet the requirements of paragraphs (a) and (b). A state must not be included in the list unless the Nevada Sheriffs’ and Chiefs’ Association agrees with the Department that the state should be included in the list.
(d) Provide a copy of the list prepared pursuant to paragraph (c) to each law enforcement agency in this State.
2.  The Department shall, upon request, make the list prepared pursuant to subsection 1 available to the public.
(Added to NRS by 2007, 3150)

http://www.arizonaccw.net/want-to-learn-more-about-right-to-carry-gun-laws/

Both residents and Non-residents of Arizona can simply take our class online and print their Certification of Completion as part of the requirements necessary to receive their AZ CCW Permit, pursuant to ARS 13-3112(E)(6)(b) and ARS 13-3112(N)(1). This permit allows you to carry concealed in all of the states colored red in map below.

Edit

Our Online CCW Course is only $39.95 and includes all of the course materials necessary to prepare you for the quiz. Once you pass the CCW quiz, you can print out the certificate of completion and submit it with your AZ CCW Permit application.

mljdeckard
March 6, 2013, 04:53 PM
I'm a Utah resident and recently applied for an AZ permit specifically to be able to carry in NV. I don't have it yet, and I recently had a gun stolen out of my car in Vegas, because I took it off and put it in the trunk, because my UT permit isn't valid there. (The AZ permit hadn't arrived yet. AZ gives (GAVE) me three states that don't honor Utah, NV, NM, and KS. Oh well, I suppose I'll be in NM at least once in the next five years.

I think the real reason they dropped AZ is the same reason they dropped FL an dUT. Too many tourists on the gaming floor with out-of-state permits. I looked into getting a NV non-res permit, they have made it very difficult.

AlbertH
March 6, 2013, 05:12 PM
Apparently, getting a CCW in Arizona is no longer as stringent as getting one in Nevada. I applaud AZ for lowering their citizens 2A rights, but Nevada cops still have to follow NV law.

In Nevada, you have to show you can make the gun go bang, as well as put at least 30 rounds from a revolver into the 7 ring of a B27 target at 5 yards, to a qualified instructor. 36 rounds if it's an automatic.




http://www.arizonaccw.net/want-to-learn-more-about-right-to-carry-gun-laws/



Edit

Here in Michigan part of our CPL class included a weapons proficiency test, the instructor provided Ruger Mark III 22LR with a 6 7/8 barrel but we used an SSDT ACC-U-Check targets instead. We needed to show proficiency both hands at 12, 15, and 21 ft, strong hand at 12 and 15 ft, and weak hand at 12ft.

I would wager that the Nevada law doesn't specify what kind of weapon must be used other than the revolver/semi auto and if a person cant stay within the 7 ring shooting two handed using a Ruger Mark III 22LR with a 6 7/8 barrel, maybe they shouldn't be allowed to handle a weapon anyway.

mljdeckard
March 6, 2013, 05:13 PM
I started a thread recently on how one would go about getting a NV non-res permit, and I was advised that they make it so difficult that it's not worth it.

So I looked on the reciprocity chart. There are three states whose non-res permits are honored by NV. RI, KY, and TN. KY issues non-res to military personnel only. RI's language is a bit confusing, they SOUND shall-issue, but the requirelments look more like MAY-issue. TN only issues non-res permits to people who regularly work in TN. SO, NV has effectively eliminated all tourist permits.

I suppose I will start making phone calls to see what I need to do to get one from a NV county, or get them to tell me outright that they just won't do that.

mljdeckard
March 6, 2013, 05:14 PM
And Albert H, thank you for applying personal standards to who can and cannot exercise their rights.

psyopspec
March 6, 2013, 05:26 PM
There must be a valid reason if your states concealed permit isn't reciprocal with some states, maybe you should put forth your efforts to make the changes necessary in your states requirements so it becomes reciprocal nationwide rather than trying to change others requirements.

So you suggest that gun owners in AZ lobby to make their gun laws tougher? That doesn't sound very pro-2A.

NavyLCDR
March 6, 2013, 05:27 PM
I am sorry but if you are ineligible for a resident concealed weapons permit. I don't want you carrying concealed.

There must be a valid reason if your states concealed permit isn't reciprocal with some states, maybe you should put forth your efforts to make the changes necessary in your states requirements so it becomes reciprocal nationwide rather than trying to change others requirements.

Washington State - When I got my permit, it was something like $52. I think the fee has gone down since then. What has not changed is no training requirement, no proficiency requirement. No requirement for references or public announcements in newspapers. No appearances before any board or judge to explain why you want a Concealed Pistol License. You fill out the form, similar to a 4473, provide fingerprints, and the sherrif is required to issue the permit within 30 days unless they receive disqualifying information.

Now, Mr. AlbertH - if you can show me problems with concealed carry permit holders that we have in Washington State because we don't adhere to some other states' stadards, I would love to see the evidence. But you say we should raise our hurdles to the lawful carrying of concealed firearms to match someone elses' when we have no issues with our process? Tell you what - you keep your requirements on your side of the state line, we don't want or need your requirements in my state.

Other states would not have the requirements they they do if they were unconstitutional.

I'm not sure if you would make a better politician or comedian with that comment. All states should raise their "standards" to those of California so that maybe California will recognize out-of-state permits, right?

AlbertH
March 6, 2013, 05:29 PM
And Albert H, thank you for applying personal standards to who can and cannot exercise their rights.
so you like the idea of an armed citizen who has never shot nor even handled a weapon before roaming the streets with a 45 auto?. kind of irresponsible isn't it.

The point I was trying to make was that no one is required to be a gun totin 45-70 shootin expert to be able to pass a proficiency test if they take the time to take a gun safety class.

Unfortunately it appears as though one of the biggest complaints I read about Concealed carry permits is the fact that some states feel that in order for you to be armed, they ask that you show you can safely handle a weapon.. sorry but we do not live in the WILD WEST ANYMORE

12many
March 6, 2013, 05:38 PM
Last time I checked, In NV one must qualify with the gun that is going to be carried concealed. If you want to change concealed carry guns in the future, the permit holder must qualify with the new gun and the new gun added to the list. easy to do, but does requires the shooting test with the new gun.

AlbertH
March 6, 2013, 05:43 PM
Last time I checked, In NV one must qualify with the gun that is going to be carried concealed. If you want to change concealed carry guns in the future, the permit holder must qualify with the new gun and the new gun added to the list. easy to do, but does requires the shooting test with the new gun.
As of July 1, 2011, pursuant to AB 282, Nevada law does not require you to qualify with every firearm you intend to carry; you need only qualify with a weapon of that type. In other words, if you qualify with a semiauto pistol, you may then carry any semiauto, whether you qualified with it or not. If you qualify with one semiauto and one revolver, you can carry any revolver or semiauto pistol. Your CCW permit will indicate what types of firearms you qualified with and are allowed to carry.

mljdeckard
March 6, 2013, 05:44 PM
I am a Utah state carry and NRA pistol instructor. I train people to shoot all the time. What is a TERRIBLE idea is allowing the state to place minimum requirements on who can and cannot exercise their rights. It is no better than requiring literacy tests to vote. It is just as bad when YOU come up with an arbitrary standard which should be met by everyone who carries. YOU are not the end (or beginning) all be all of firearm competence. My grandmother has a right to self-defense whether she can meet your standards or not.

Everyone who carries should commit to a lifetime of training. But allowing the state to place standards on that right is to say that it is a privilege, not a right. It is like requiring literacy tests to vote, intelligence standards to exercise free press, or enlightenment standards to practice religion.

AlbertH
March 6, 2013, 06:01 PM
I am a Utah state carry and NRA pistol instructor. I train people to shoot all the time. What is a TERRIBLE idea is allowing the state to place minimum requirements on who can and cannot exercise their rights. It is no better than requiring literacy tests to vote. It is just as bad when YOU come up with an arbitrary standard which should be met by everyone who carries. YOU are not the end (or beginning) all be all of firearm competence. My grandmother has a right to self-defense whether she can meet your standards or not.

Everyone who carries should commit to a lifetime of training. But allowing the state to place standards on that right is to say that it is a privilege, not a right. It is like requiring literacy tests to vote, intelligence standards to exercise free press, or enlightenment standards to practice religion.
Here in Michigan the instructor signs of as to whether you are proficient or not and no targets are sent in with your application.

That Old lady does NOT have the right to KILL SOMEONE by mistake because she cannot control the weapon she is shooting, and to even try and justify that she does shows irresponsibility, especially from an NRA firearms instructor.

12many
March 6, 2013, 06:02 PM
Thanks ALbert. That is helpful and I did not know that. Sorry for putting out bad info.

I am a bad shot with my keltek 380 had wondered how I might qualify with that pistol even though that is an easy one to throw in the pocket.

Okiegunner
March 6, 2013, 06:04 PM
Mljdeckard...

Well said!!!

12many
March 6, 2013, 06:05 PM
MLJ, you make a good point, but I would not want my grandmother carrying. She was legally blind. Perhaps there should be some limits.

It is interesting that open carry does not have requirements but concelled does.

radiotom
March 6, 2013, 06:19 PM
so you like the idea of an armed citizen who has never shot nor even handled a weapon before roaming the streets with a 45 auto?. kind of irresponsible isn't it.

The point I was trying to make was that no one is required to be a gun totin 45-70 shootin expert to be able to pass a proficiency test if they take the time to take a gun safety class.

Unfortunately it appears as though one of the biggest complaints I read about Concealed carry permits is the fact that some states feel that in order for you to be armed, they ask that you show you can safely handle a weapon.. sorry but we do not live in the WILD WEST ANYMORE
I'm PRETTY SURE that would be an "infringement."

NavyLCDR
March 6, 2013, 06:28 PM
so you like the idea of an armed citizen who has never shot nor even handled a weapon before roaming the streets with a 45 auto?. kind of irresponsible isn't it.

And, like I said earlier, show us where this causes problems in states that do not require permits to carry firearms and states where there is no training required to obtain permits.

mljdeckard
March 6, 2013, 11:13 PM
Then stay in Michigan. She doesn't have to shoot to YOUR STANDARD to be competent to use a gun for self-defense.

And anyone who thinks she can't control it is free to test her.

ObsidianOne
March 7, 2013, 01:56 AM
Most of us don't even have CCWs, as we have constitutional carry. Some still get it for reciprocity and for a few other benefits of having the CCW, but the majority don't.

gazpacho
March 7, 2013, 02:08 AM
I would like to point out that Nevada law is silent on open carry. Thus it is lawful to carry openly in Nevada without a permit. There are a few exceptions to that in Clark County (the greater Las Vegas metro area, plus more), namely North Las Vegas and Boulder City.

I am not 100% certain, but I believe non-resident permits are still "shall issue". If you can legally own and posess a firearm, you should be able to get a permit.

NavyLCDR
March 7, 2013, 09:49 AM
There are a few exceptions to that in Clark County (the greater Las Vegas metro area, plus more), namely North Las Vegas and Boulder City.

It is a violation of state law (NRS 244.364) for counties and cities to have laws more restrictive than state law.

mljdeckard
March 7, 2013, 10:53 AM
I live in Tooele County, UT, which actually borders NV, I may be about to find out just how difficult the process is.

UhKlem
March 7, 2013, 02:25 PM
Nevada not recognizing Arizona CCW permits is a violation of the full faith and credit clause of the Constitution. They have to recognize drivers licenses, marriages, orders of protection, child support, birth certificates, etc., so why not carry permits? Eric needs to call in a drone strike on recalcitrant Nevada mandarins. For the children. If it saves just one life. To protect and to serve.

Lex malla, lex nulla.

mljdeckard
March 7, 2013, 02:39 PM
If it is that easy, should all states not honor all permits from all other states anyway?

c4v3man
March 7, 2013, 04:44 PM
If it is that easy, should all states not honor all permits from all other states anyway?
Yes, they sure should. Would make travel a lot simpler.

Abolish Gun Free Victim Disarmament Zones and National Constitutional Carry are what we want. If liberals want to start to talk about compromise, give us these things and you can use the term properly. Otherwise, it's a farce.

And in regards to putting 30/36 rounds in the 7 ring, the two times I've taken the certification (in addition to the re-cert to add a new pistol prior to the "semi/revolver class" certifications) they've never actually checked/counted. Not that they should, but it's far, far less formal than that. And that's with 2 different permit testing companies.

mljdeckard
March 7, 2013, 04:50 PM
Testing...companies?

c4v3man
March 7, 2013, 05:37 PM
Instructor/LLC/company, whatever. I used 2 different companies when doing my testing (actually 3 if you count the instruction/testing I took before I was 21... just sitting in with my folks) and all 3 times it was pretty laid back. As long as you understood how to manipulate/load the weapon, they didn't seem to care about accuracy that much. Technically we were shooting beyond 5 yards (the county range doesn't have a berm at 5 yards for targets to go into) so...

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