Izmash AK-107 ready for export!


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dcarch
March 6, 2013, 10:40 PM
I'm really surprised no one has posted this yet THR. The AK-107, with the balanced recoil feature, is about to hit the civilian market!http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/03/06/saiga-mk-107-the-civilian-ak-107-with-balanced-recoil-arrives/ Assuming this clears the ATF, we could all very soon be able to purchase this new model of AK-related awesomeness. Thoughts? :D

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Caliper_RWVA
March 6, 2013, 10:44 PM
Very interesting. I wouldn't mind one of these to break into the works of 5.45x39, except that they will probably be running $2k in todays market!

Sam Cade
March 6, 2013, 10:57 PM
Not going to happen.

Sec. 47.52 Import restrictions applicable to certain countries.

(a) It is the policy of the United States to deny licenses and other approvals with respect to defense articles and defense services originating in certain countries or areas. This policy applies to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Mongolia, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, Vietnam, and some of the states that comprised the former Soviet Union (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, and Tajikistan). This policy applies to countries or areas with respect to which the United States maintains an arms embargo (e.g., Burma, China, the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro), Haiti, Liberia, Rwanda, Somalia, Sudan, UNITA (Angola), and Zaire). It also applies when an import would not be in furtherance of world peace and the security and foreign policy of the United States.

Note: Changes in foreign policy may result in additions to and deletions from the above list of countries. The ATF will publish changes to this list in the Federal Register. Contact the Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch at (202) 927-8320 for current information.

(b) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this section, the Director shall deny applications to import into the United States the following firearms and ammunition:

(1) Any firearm located or manufactured in Georgia, Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Russian Federation, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, or Uzbekistan, and any firearm previously manufactured in the Soviet Union, that is not one of the models listed below:

(i) Pistols/Revolvers:

(A) German Model P08 Pistol.

(B) IZH 34M, .22 caliber Target Pistol.

(C) IZH 35M, .22 caliber Target Pistol.

(D) Mauser Model 1896 Pistol.

(E) MC-57-1 Pistol.

(F) MC-1-5 Pistol.

(G) Polish Vis Model 35 Pistol.

(H) Soviet Nagant Revolver.

(I) TOZ 35, .22 caliber Target Pistol.


[[Page 61235]]


(ii) Rifles:

(A) BARS-4 Bolt Action Carbine.

(B) Biathlon Target Rifle, .22LR caliber.

(C) British Enfield Rifle.

(D) CM2, .22 caliber Target Rifle (also known as SM2, 22 caliber).

(E) German Model 98K Rifle.

(F) German Model G41 Rifle.

(G) German Model G43 Rifle.

(H) IZH-94.

(I) LOS-7 Bolt Action Rifle.

(J) MC-7-07.

(K) MC-18-3.

(L) MC-19-07.

(M) MC-105-01.

(N) MC-112-02.

(O) MC-113-02.

(P) MC-115-1.

(Q) MC-125/127.

(R) MC-126.

(S) MC-128.

(T) Saiga Rifle.

(U) Soviet Model 38 Carbine.

(V) Soviet Model 44 Carbine.

(W) Soviet Model 91/30 Rifle.

(X) TOZ 18, .22 caliber Bolt Action Rifle.

(Y) TOZ 55.

(Z) TOZ 78.

(AA) Ural Target Rifle, .22LR caliber.

(BB) VEPR Rifle.

(CC) Winchester Model 1895, Russian Model Rifle;

(2) Ammunition located or manufactured in Georgia, Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan, Moldova, Russian Federation, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, or Uzbekistan, and ammunition previously manufactured in the Soviet Union, that is 7.62X25mm caliber (also known as 7.63X25mm caliber or .30 Mauser); or

(3) A type of firearm the manufacture of which began after February 9, 1996.

(c) The provisions of paragraph (b) of this section shall not affect the fulfillment of contracts with respect to firearms or ammunition entered or withdrawn from warehouse for consumption in the
United States on or before February 9, 1996.

* * * * *

Par. 3. Section 47.57(c) is amended by removing the last sentence.

Signed: August 22, 1997.

dcarch
March 6, 2013, 11:01 PM
Couldn't they just "neuter" it and brand it as a new model of Saiga?

Sam Cade
March 6, 2013, 11:05 PM
Couldn't they just "neuter" it and brand it as a new model of Saiga?


If that would work they would be importing Draganovs and SVT-40s with "Saiga" electro-penciled on the receiver.

chris in va
March 6, 2013, 11:32 PM
Yup, not gonna happen. There's a reason why we get the Saiga in it's current form, and it has nothing to do with 'sporting' as they term it.

desidog
March 7, 2013, 01:49 PM
I thought the whole purpose of that recoil system was to get a second shot out of the barrel before it moves. Since they're not going to import them with the full auto parts, it's most marketable feature is a moot point.

And with a cross-bolt safety, an AR magwell, an AR pistol grip, 1913 rail, I'll just stick with an AR...

JustinJ
March 7, 2013, 02:01 PM
Apparently Izhmash has designed it for civlian use so i wouldn't see a sporterized version as being too far fetched. Neat design i just wonder if the added complexity will take away from the AK reliability. Anybody know if the Russian military will be fielding these? The AN94 is just too complex and expensive although very interesting. The flywheel is a pretty cool idea.

blackrussian
March 7, 2013, 02:07 PM
I thought the whole purpose of that recoil system was to get a second shot out of the barrel before it moves. Since they're not going to import them with the full auto parts, it's most marketable feature is a moot point.

And with a cross-bolt safety, an AR magwell, an AR pistol grip, 1913 rail, I'll just stick with an AR...

The AK-107 does not have the feature that you describe. The Abakan AN94 does.

Sam Cade
March 7, 2013, 02:42 PM
The AK-107 does not have the feature that you describe. The Abakan AN94 does.

Are you suuuuure?


The AK-107 is a Russian 5.45 mm assault rifle developed from the AK-100-series. It features a "balanced" operating system, similar to that used in the AEK-971. In this case, the designation AK does not indicate Avtomat Kalashnikova but Alexandrov/Kalashnikov. The revised designation indicates the incorporation of a new gas system, designed by Youriy Alexandrov, for Kalashnikov-pattern rifles.

These new rifles were derived from the AL-7 experimental rifle of the early 1970s. The AL-7 utilized an innovative balanced gas operating system known as the Balanced Automatics Recoil System (BARS) developed by Peter Andreevich Tkachev of TsNIITochMash that was first used earlier on the AO-38 assault rifle of 1965

JustinJ
March 7, 2013, 03:04 PM
Are you suuuuure?

I am. The system described in the AK107 will do nothing to allow for hyper burst fire. The AN94 has a "Blow Back Shifted Pulse" which means it is part gas and recoil operated.

blackrussian
March 7, 2013, 03:11 PM
Are you suuuuure?

Quite.

Sam Cade
March 7, 2013, 03:20 PM
Quite.

You are correct.

I misread you post.

Mea Culpa.

akv3g4n
March 7, 2013, 04:49 PM
Anybody know if the Russian military will be fielding these?

I doubt anything will be replacing the AK74 any time soon.

The AK-12 is intended to replace the AK-74 but, so far, there's not been a huge amount of interest expressed, especially given the massive number of spare AK-74s (estimated at 17 million) in the Russian armed forces' reserves.

http://www.armedforces-int.com/news/russian-kalashnikov-ak-12-assault-rifle-trials.html

JustinJ
March 7, 2013, 05:42 PM
I doubt anything will be replacing the AK74 any time soon.

You're probably right but the AK12 really was only an external change and the AN94 is too complex and expensive. Maybe someday an AK107 gas system with the AK12 external features.

Does anybody know if the AK107 is the first gun to implement such a gas system? I wonder if it will be copied by american designers.

Fishbed77
March 7, 2013, 06:28 PM
Assuming this clears the ATF, we could all very soon be able to purchase this new model of AK-related awesomeness. Thoughts?

Read the last paragraph of the article you linked. It clearly says this rifle is not currently importable into the US. It would have to be "sporterized" similar to the Saiga.

Personally, I think a semi-auto version of the AK-107 is pointless. I can't see the balanced-recoil system being very useful on anything short of a full-auto rifle. And it's not like the the AK has much recoil anyway (especially with a good muzzle brake).

Sam Cade
March 7, 2013, 06:54 PM
It would have to be "sporterized" similar to the Saiga.

Even then it wouldn't be legal since it isn't on the import list.

Fishbed77
March 8, 2013, 11:04 AM
Even then it wouldn't be legal since it isn't on the import list.

Assume it would be marketed as a Saiga rifle. There are already various configurations of Saiga (and VEPR, for that matter) that are currently allowed. What would stop this model from being considered another Saiga variation?

WardenWolf
March 8, 2013, 11:35 AM
It's ugly, but I like the full-length rails, at least in part. I'm a big proponent of the standard AK quick-release hardpoint system, so I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. My main concern is that it's going to be rather heavy due to the addition of weight that doesn't need to be there.

Sam Cade
March 8, 2013, 02:26 PM
What would stop this model from being considered another Saiga variation?

The same thing that keeps IZHMASH from importing a "Saiga" stamped SVD.

Substantial differences in operating system, controls and appearance.

Fishbed77
March 8, 2013, 04:21 PM
The same thing that keeps IZHMASH from importing a "Saiga" stamped SVD.

Substantial differences in operating system, controls and appearance.

Still not convinced.

Regardless, it's also conceivable that they could come in as parts kits and be built on a US-made receiver.

dcarch
March 8, 2013, 04:57 PM
Just say no to Century. :D

Sam Cade
March 8, 2013, 05:29 PM
Regardless, it's also conceivable that they could come in as parts kits and be built on a US-made receiver.

Parts kits that would have to be imported without barrels.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has determined that the language of 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3) permits no exceptions that would allow frames, receivers or barrels for otherwise non-importable firearms to be imported into the United States. Accordingly, ATF will no longer approve ATF Form 6 applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be prohibited from importation if assembled. No exceptions to the statutory language, for example for “repair or replacement” of existing firearms, will be allowed.


Still not convinced.


If the specific model does not appear on the BATFE import list, it CANNOT be imported into the US without a changing the law to specifically allow it.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/policy-procedure-restricted-importation.html

Fishbed77
March 8, 2013, 10:56 PM
If the specific model does not appear on the BATFE import list, it CANNOT be imported into the US without a changing the law to specifically allow it.

The "specific model" listed is "Saiga Semi-auto Rifle." Sounds pretty vague to me.

I can think of at least a few distinct Izhmash Saiga models (IZ-110, IZ-114, IZ-250, IZ-340, IZ-132, IZ-235, etc.) that have been imported under the single "specific model" name.

Irregardless of all this, models have been added to the list of importable firearms in the past.

Sam Cade
March 9, 2013, 12:13 AM
The "specific model" listed is "Saiga Semi-auto Rifle." Sounds pretty vague to me.


Saiga Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-M Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-308 Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-308-1 Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-308-2 Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-9 Semi-auto Rifle

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/importation-verification/policy-procedure-restricted-importation.html <--------

So, if IZH stamped a SVD with "Saiga" do you think that the ATF would let it in? Why or why not.


Irregardless of all this, models have been added to the list of importable firearms in the past.
Regardless.

The amount of political capital expended in doing it was no doubt vast.

Quiet
March 9, 2013, 07:17 PM
As seen at IWA 2013 (http://www.iwa.info/en/).

Izhmash AK-107
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/582478_400118553416750_1714879556_n.jpg

InkEd
March 9, 2013, 11:09 PM
I'll stick with my SGL-21. It's trying to make the AK design into a different direction from it's simplistic beauty. EVERYTIME that I shoot it, I reminded of why I love it so much.

This afternoon me and a buddy were shooting our ARs and I brought out the SGL-21 and while not as accurate, it's just plain works perfectly 100% everytime.

fatcat4620
March 10, 2013, 01:39 AM
You guys are trying way to hard to inport ban this rifle. It's just a saiga with an updated gas system, nothing more ;)

dcarch
March 10, 2013, 01:53 AM
Really, really want it, even though apparently it has as much chance of coming into the country as Joe Biden starring in the next "Art of the Dynamic Shotgun" video. :D

Fishbed77
March 10, 2013, 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishbed77 View Post
The "specific model" listed is "Saiga Semi-auto Rifle." Sounds pretty vague to me.
Saiga Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-M Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-308 Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-308-1 Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-308-2 Semi-auto Rifle
Saiga-9 Semi-auto Rifle

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...portation.html <--------


I read the list prior to posting. And yet your response fails to take into account my previous point, that various distinct Izhmash Saiga models (IZ-110, IZ-114, IZ-250, IZ-340, IZ-132, IZ-235, etc.) are all imported under the "Saiga Semi-auto Rifle" heading. They are not named out specifically, despite the fact that many of them are quite different, with different features, calibers, and appearances.

These models mentioned above are NOT the "Saiga-308 Semi-auto Rifle", "Saiga-308-1 Semi-auto Rifle" "Saiga-308-2 Semi-auto Rifle", or the "Saiga-9 Semi-auto Rifle"

It is not a stretch to group a "sporterized" Saiga MK107 under the "Saiga Semi-auto Rifle" name, since that's exactly what is it. Now would that be successful? There's no way to know unless you are a BAFTE lawyer. They are notoriously inconsistent in their decisions.

Regardless.

When a poster resorts to correcting grammar is when I realize their argument is getting pretty thin.


.

Sam Cade
March 10, 2013, 04:47 AM
There's no way to know unless you are a BAFTE lawyer. They are notoriously inconsistent in their decisions.


I have unsuccessfully tried to Form 6 firearms (a TIGR) from Russia. I am only telling you what the feds told me.

stubbicatt
March 11, 2013, 09:49 AM
It's a pretty neat firearm. It would be cool if the powers that be allow it to be imported. Like some of the other contributors, in this ponderous gas system I see needless complexity, where others see innovation. The two modifications to the typical Kalashnikov evident in the example that appeal to me are the left side bolt handle and the cross bolt safety.

Nonetheless, and irregardless ( :rolleyes: ) it would be a neat addition to inventory at the LGS.

JustinJ
March 11, 2013, 12:15 PM
I saw a youtube video of one being fired on full auto in 5.45. It did seem to work very well although with it's muzzle break a 74 has minimal recoil and muzzle climb to begin with.

WardenWolf
March 11, 2013, 12:53 PM
The one reason I can see it being rejected is that the counterweight serves absolutely no real purpose in a civilian semi-auto configuration. All it does is reduce the already-negligible recoil, and the positive effect is seen only when sending a lot of lead downrange rapidly. In other words, it has no "sporting" benefit.

InkEd
March 11, 2013, 01:22 PM
I would say a faster follow-up shot on a wounded animal is a sporting purpose.

Fishbed77
March 11, 2013, 05:21 PM
I would say a faster follow-up shot on a wounded animal is a sporting purpose.

I was thinking the same thing.

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