Need opinion on annealing results


PDA






peels
March 6, 2013, 10:33 PM
With the 308win new brass supply all dried up, figured it was time to start annealing. I rigged up a home made annealer to get consistency in results...and this is what I got.

Annealing time of 6 seconds for all brass yielded the results in the picture attached. Settled on 6 seconds because at 6.5 seconds, the FC brass started to get faint dull red.

Most of the brass is FC, but the 2 far right in the picture are Hornady. They weighed noticeably less than the FC. When observing in a darkened room, the case mouth definitely glowed dull red with the Hornady. A very brief release of orange flame also noticed right before it left the flame.

No glow and no orange flame for the FC brass. All brass were air cooled.

So my question is with regards to the Hornady brass. Are they ruined? Is it still safe to use?

Thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about "Need opinion on annealing results" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
FROGO207
March 6, 2013, 10:42 PM
I think that you are OK with the Hornaday brass. The problem is if the base/primer/web area gets too hot looses its temper. That area looks like it stayed cool on all casings. I anneal using a lead pot and dip the brass into it and water quench. I have never had problems with mine and some get really hot at the neck area.

docsleepy
March 6, 2013, 11:00 PM
I think the secret is to use a dark room -- at night. Then you can see the first hints of the red. In my experience, i am better off if I leave it into the flame until I am certain that I see some red. YOu can also see a change in the flame itself; it will develop some red.

I use a handheld electric screwdriver, holding a socket wrench appropriately sized for the case involved. Center the flame on the middle of the neck. Your groups should get smaller as a result. If your technique is not consistent, you will have larger, rather than smaller groups.

docsleepy
March 6, 2013, 11:02 PM
Oh, and I dump them in water immediately. Again, as long as you center on the neck and don't let the web get hot, I don't think yhou can go wrong. From my view of your photos, the ones on the left might have benefited from a bit more time in the flame.

That brief color change in the flame is a key.

280shooter
March 6, 2013, 11:26 PM
what post #3 says and uses, I use the battery operating screw driver,a keep your flame at the neck of the case,Ihave my water right beside me while I,m heated the cases, I count to 8 and toss them right into the water,,that works for me,, Iuse a propane torch,sitting up right on my bench,And I take the case right to the flame.

jmorris
March 6, 2013, 11:48 PM
Photos will fool you and just like a weld bead with a MIG, you can't tell by just looking what was done.

The two videos (click on the photos) show you what you need to know.

The first one is too much, the second is just right.


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/th_annealer.jpg (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer.mp4)


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/th_nottoohot.jpg (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/annealer/nottoohot.mp4)

peels
March 6, 2013, 11:59 PM
Thanks for the guidance guys!

Question for jmorris, did you use the batch that you called "too much". I'm pretty sure I didn't see as much orange flame as the first vid. The orange flame that I saw was fairly brief.

Thanks!

jmorris
March 7, 2013, 12:09 AM
I didn't I have a small bucket of brass I ran through may brass sorter a lot that I keep around for tests and that was part of it.

If your too cool, you can always run it again but if you over do it, you can't take it back.

That said, there are a bunch of folks that cook brass so much they put the case head in water so they don't anneal the case head with the heat transfer, so if you went a little too far you are likely OK.

peels
March 7, 2013, 12:30 AM
OK. So it sounds like the Hornady might be somewhat questionable. I'll just put it aside and perhaps use it for low pressure loads.

Thanks for the quick replies!

Jmorris, I really liked your machine design. but I don't have access to machines that can cut something like that precisely, so I went with a center driven disk with drilled holes. Also use only 1 torch. Ended up using a second motor to spin the brass in the flame. I do want to design up a torch holding arm though. Not sure how I want to do that yet. Any pointers on the design of those arms?

jmorris
March 7, 2013, 09:33 AM
Take a look at this thread. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?48611-finished-the-auto-annealer-today
Started it 4 years ago when I built my machine and folks are still posting the machines they have completed with my "blade" and trace drawings. So pretty creative folks.

peels
March 9, 2013, 07:58 PM
I am sooooo tempted to get this professionally fabricated. Wonder how much it would cost. Any machinists out there that would like some work? :evil:

GeneCC
March 9, 2013, 08:30 PM
The only way to be certain is to do a hardness test.

My rule is, "If you're not sure, don't do it".

Jasper1573
March 9, 2013, 10:01 PM
I am sooooo tempted to get this professionally fabricated. Wonder how much it would cost.

They sell them for $475 at the link below...go to the bottom of the page and you'll find it there.

http://www.kenlightmfg.com/products.html

Jdillon
March 9, 2013, 10:53 PM
I would recommend getting some tempilaq since it is difficult to judge by color change alone. I anneal with a Bench Source and set it up with Tempilaq with a sacrificial case. Different brands of brass will vary in color even when the same amount of heat and time is applied.

peels
March 9, 2013, 11:04 PM
They sell them for $475 at the link below...go to the bottom of the page and you'll find it there.

http://www.kenlightmfg.com/products.html

Ouch! $475 and that's for 1 caliber. I'm going to talk to some local machining shops to see how much it would cost to cut the aluminum. My prototype already have all the motors and controllers that I need...

peels
March 9, 2013, 11:10 PM
I would recommend getting some tempilaq since it is difficult to judge by color change alone. I anneal with a Bench Source and set it up with Tempilaq with a sacrificial case. Different brands of brass will vary in color even when the same amount of heat and time is applied.
But it seems like thinner brass will anneal faster. So in that case, annealing manually one at a time while using Tempilaq or looking at case glow in a dark room may actually be more consistent.

I guess I'll have to sort and then use a sacrificial case of each brand to get the timing correct.

jmorris
March 10, 2013, 11:20 AM
The angle style holes in my blade are wide enough to hold a 50 BMG case and taper to precisely hold any case, so one size fits all. They are $60 with scale drawings of the top plate, torch arms and drive wheel.

If you enjoyed reading about "Need opinion on annealing results" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!