SKS Accuracy... Dang...


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The_Armed_Therapist
March 7, 2013, 06:39 PM
I've had an SKS for a while. I've rarely shot past 50 yards, and rarely on paper. I typically do that with other rifles. Well, I went to the range yesterday, set up at 100 yards, and got about 12" groups. I was terribly disappointed... not that I expected 2" or anything, but I had been hoping to sink a little money into this thing.

It's been a while since it's been really cleaned, so I'm going to be doing that soon. What other "obvious" things could be the problem that I should take a look at? I'm not fan of the open sights, but I'm thinking that couldn't possibly be the main factor here. I don't think it's me, as I had much success with everything else yesterday. I also recognize that maybe there isn't much that can be done; however, I'd like to try. It was a gift!

So, besides cleaning, what things can I try to tinker with to possibly improve accuracy?


Oh, and it's a Norinco.

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cleardiddion
March 7, 2013, 06:44 PM
Does it have a wood or synthetic stock?

Depending on where you are and what sort of climate you live in, a wood stock can either swell or shrink.

In my case, I check the screws every once in a while and find on occasion that I need to tighten them up. The rifle wobbling around definitely doesn't help accuracy.

It might be worth taking a gander at that possibility.

The_Armed_Therapist
March 7, 2013, 06:47 PM
Wood stock. Thanks!

tahunua001
March 7, 2013, 06:53 PM
how much has been done to it?
a lot of guys rip the bayonets off and that little weight off the barrel can open up groups a bit... not much but a little.

then there is the sights... they really aren't that great. tech sights apertures can increase sight radius and give a better sight picture.

the triggers are awful, or at least my norinco's isn't very nice... there are a few mods to make it better but they get pretty technical and are high risk mods... one slip and you might need a new trigger group.


those are the main ones that come to mind.

joeschmoe
March 7, 2013, 08:39 PM
The usual stuff. Good cleaning. Proper oil/grease. Check for worn parts. Check crown. Check the bedding for high/low sections. Re-bed the barrel. Try different ammo. Check if bayonet is loose, or remove. Have throat/bore gauged for wear. Stone rough parts on trigger group. New springs. Etc.

You should be able to get that group much smaller without a ton of work or money. It will never be a tack driver, but it should hit center of food/bad guy.

ObsceneJesster
March 7, 2013, 09:10 PM
There is definitely something going on here. 4.5in groups at 100 yards are pretty common for the SKS without any major work done. With a moderate amount of work done, you should be able to bring that down to around 3in.

adelbridge
March 7, 2013, 10:03 PM
Brass cases ammo should shoot way better than nasty old surplus ammo

joeschmoe
March 7, 2013, 10:13 PM
Oh, and how strong is the rifling? Is it sharp or worn down? Shinny or dull and pitted?

The_Armed_Therapist
March 8, 2013, 08:47 AM
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll come back and summarize my findings once I get a good chance to work on it. I was planning on adding the Tech Sights and the Tapco Intrafuse stock, but I won't be doing that if I can't get those groups to tighten up. At this point, if I can get them down to 6", that will be good enough. The plan was to essentially turn this into a battle carbine for my wife until we can afford an AR. She's only ever shot at around 50-100 yards max before, so 6" at 100 would be acceptable. 12+? No. LOL

Arkansas Paul
March 8, 2013, 08:51 AM
Like any other gun, experiment with different ammo. Some guns are picky.

Roadking Rider
March 8, 2013, 08:55 AM
Some of the chromed lined barrels of the day were not all that great. It could be something as simble as a chip in the crown of the barrel. Or it could be the barrel is shot out.

The_Armed_Therapist
March 8, 2013, 01:02 PM
What is the process for installing a new barrel? Can it be done at home by me (mechanically retarded)? Is it worth it?

chicharrones
March 8, 2013, 01:13 PM
I've had an SKS for a while. I've rarely shot past 50 yards, and rarely on paper. I typically do that with other rifles. Well, I went to the range yesterday, set up at 100 yards, and got about 12" groups. I was terribly disappointed... not that I expected 2" or anything, but I had been hoping to sink a little money into this thing.

Oh, and it's a Norinco.

I can't say my Norinco does 12" but it sure doesn't come close to 2" either. Maybe 6" if I'm lucky. I attribute it to crappy trigger, hard to see sights (for some eyes), surplus ammo, and barrel heating up. If I shot only 3 rounds per mag and let it cool, it might shoot better. It's an SKS though, so everything I do with it is with 10 round mags. It doesn't take but a few shots to start spraying around a bit.

rcmodel
March 8, 2013, 01:15 PM
Not until you try different ammo.

No mention of what you are using, but if it's old mil-sup or even new Rusky commercial stuff?

Not gonna shoot as well as it could with good ammo.

Rebarreling an SKS yourself is probably not a good idea unless you have a barrel vice, action wrench, and a lathe.

rc

ball3006
March 8, 2013, 01:42 PM
These rifles were built to be minute of man in accuracy. 12 inch groups falls into that catagory. All of my SKS will shoot better than 12 inches if I do my part. My old eyes have their good days and bad days. My Chinese rifles are the best shooters. The trigger is different on all my milsurps. You just have to use proper trigger manipulaton and you will be fine. If you want a target trigger, buy another kind of rifle. Don't waste your money on aftermarket stuff for a SKS. Just use the rifle for what it is.....chris3

bhhacker
March 8, 2013, 01:49 PM
BEFORE YOU GO CHANGING OUT BARRELS....


At the very least get the tech site front site post..."Item #TS152 - Target Post for the SKS/AK Rifles." and the proper tool to take your old one off and put this one on.


A skinnier post means you can make finer adjustments.

It costs 5$ and is totally worth it. Get the full tech sight aperture sights if you have the money too, but i just swapped out the front and it is now minute of deer at 100 yards with crappy russian ammo.

When the prices for stuff goes down, ill start rolling my own and im sure they will get even better.


This was hands down the best 5$ mod on a gun ive ever done. (it actually cost about 20ish with the sight tool and everything but still:D)

MCgunner
March 8, 2013, 01:58 PM
a lot of guys rip the bayonets off and that little weight off the barrel can open up groups a bit... not much but a little.

Didn't bother mine at all. Even with .308" bullet handloads it shoots 3.5" and with wolf 154 (seems to like that stuff), it shoots 2.5". 3" is typical for ball in both my SKSs. They're Norincos. My main gripe is the trigger, but my rifle has a decent trigger. My carbine, however, is more double action, like squeezing mud. :rolleyes: THAT is not conducive to good groups, but I can manage it off the bench and off hand after I get used to the crappiness.

The_Armed_Therapist
March 8, 2013, 02:46 PM
I mostly use Wolf ammo. I know it's not the best stuff for accuracy, but my assumption was that jumping to 12" groups is way too large to just be an ammo problem. I'm basically going to try all of the smaller things mentioned here. Cleaning, checking screws, making sure nothing is broken, perhaps new front post, using better ammo, etc... Only then would I think about purchasing Tech Sights or replacing the barrel, etc. I'm not expecting 2MOA. 4-6 seems normal. That is A-OK with me.

pseudonymity
March 8, 2013, 07:16 PM
Did you slug the bore to find out the size? Seems that SKS bores can run anywhere from .309 to .312.

Ammo makes a big difference also - it is kind of hard to find decently accurate ammo for bores that are on the large side, but some good eastern milsurp stuff loaded with .311 bullets can shoot decent groups.

meanmrmustard
March 8, 2013, 08:05 PM
I dont think anyone has suggested this:

Any SKS Ive owned or had the pleasure to shoot has had stock wobble to one degree or another. If the action and barrel can move in the stock, accuracy suffers greatly.

Try "nicer" ammo. Something in brass, just to say you tried.

Ill be the first to suggest Tech Sights. They lengthen your sight radius, and the peep makes sighting faster, and target acquisition easier. This may also tighten your groups.

Good luck.:)

MCgunner
March 8, 2013, 08:09 PM
These rifles were built to be minute of man in accuracy. 12 inch groups falls into that catagory. All of my SKS will shoot better than 12 inches if I do my part. My old eyes have their good days and bad days. My Chinese rifles are the best shooters. The trigger is different on all my milsurps. You just have to use proper trigger manipulaton and you will be fine. If you want a target trigger, buy another kind of rifle. Don't waste your money on aftermarket stuff for a SKS. Just use the rifle for what it is.....chris3

Pretty much sums up my SKS attitude. :D

The_Armed_Therapist
March 8, 2013, 09:03 PM
Ill be the first to suggest Tech Sights. They lengthen your sight radius, and the peep makes sighting faster, and target acquisition easier. This may also tighten your groups.

For me, the Tech Sights need no introduction. I bought them for my Ruger 10/22, and I absolutely love them. However, even the Tech Sights won't tighten 12"+ groups down to 6" or smaller. LOL... I don't want to purchase the tech sights for a 12MOA rifle. If some of these other things can give me some reasonable assurance that my SKS can get to decent form, then I'll certainly get the sights.

Cee Zee
March 8, 2013, 10:35 PM
By FAR the best thing you can do to make an SKS more accurate is to have a really qualified person fix the trigger. There is one person that is famous around the world for doing this. He goes by the screen name of Kivaari. His real name is Tom Prince. You can find him on this web page:

http://www.kivaari.com/

Send him your trigger and almost certainly your groups will shrink substantially. SKS triggers are all over the place as they come from the factory because it takes some real expertise to get them right. And they wanted to build them fast instead of getting them right. So now some of the triggers are ok but most aren't.

I sent my Norinco trigger to him. It cut my group size in half at 100 yards. I was getting 6" groups and now I get 3" groups but those are off hand groups. IMO that's the only good way to shoot an SKS so I have never really practiced shooting from any sort of a rest. I am sure I could get the groups down even smaller if I did practice shooting from a rest.

It's not real cheap to get a Kivaari trigger job but it isn't real expensive either. It is well worth the price you will pay. Other people also fix triggers but Tom has specialized in SKS triggers for decades. It was about 15 years ago that he fixed mine I think. It's been so long I'm not really sure just how long ago it was. I know I would do it again in a heart beat and I am about to do it again on the Yugo I bought.

Other considerations include exactly what type of SKS you have, how hard it's been treated, and whether it is just plain shot out. Those rounds can really heat up a barrel if you shoot enough of them real quick and heat can ruin a barrel. But most SKS's shoot better than people think IMO. I can easily shoot 1" targets at 50 to 75 yards with mine shooting off hand. I could have shot better groups at 100 yards a few years ago when my eyes were better too.

okiewita40
March 9, 2013, 04:54 AM
My norinco will shoot 2-3 moa using 125 SilverBear SP ammo. Not saying all Norinco's are like this or even SKS' for that matter. I guess I just got a good one. Try changing ammo and see if it helps.

I know my rifle fits very tight in the wood stock so that may have something to do with it.

PonyKiller
March 9, 2013, 08:01 AM
ours is ammo accurate as well, it's a norinco. with the irons at 100 the strait surplus stuff was about six inches, wolf about 5, brown bear in the same range, silver bear about 4. didn't like the golden tiger at all. Winchester fmj was by far the best, with elbows on the bench i was consistently in the 2.5-3" range, which i was pretty darned inmpressed with. Best group i ever fired was just a smidge more than, 2" and worst was right at 3". The drawback is it's not plinking ammo at 18 bucks a box.

I tested the trigger with a fishing scale, not the most scientific method but hey, it's what i got. the initial draw was about 5.5lbs, followed by 1.5lbs in the dead spot, and picks up at 6.5lbs right before it fires. Not what you call consistent but it's pedictable.

Unfortunately pop can't see for crap anymore, hooked him up with a scout style scope. we'll see how that works out next time at the range.

meanmrmustard
March 9, 2013, 08:43 AM
For me, the Tech Sights need no introduction. I bought them for my Ruger 10/22, and I absolutely love them. However, even the Tech Sights won't tighten 12"+ groups down to 6" or smaller. LOL... I don't want to purchase the tech sights for a 12MOA rifle. If some of these other things can give me some reasonable assurance that my SKS can get to decent form, then I'll certainly get the sights.
Tightened mine. Guess thats just me then. Found that I could focus more on the front sight rather than trying to line up a notch in the rear.

Immediately more accurate, but my SKS has been MUCH better than 12 MOA from the get go. Tech sights made it tighter, and better long range.

But, you knew that.

MCgunner
March 9, 2013, 11:10 AM
I tested the trigger with a fishing scale, not the most scientific method but hey, it's what i got. the initial draw was about 5.5lbs, followed by 1.5lbs in the dead spot, and picks up at 6.5lbs right before it fires. Not what you call consistent but it's pedictable.

Well, it helps to be a good DA revolver shooter when you fire these things. :rolleyes: Crappy ain't the word for the trigger on my Carbine, but I picked out my rifle for its trigger, one of the crisp ones. I used to order these things (had an FFL) and put them on football pots at work. I found that about 1 out of 10 had a decent trigger. These were all Norincos. I KEPT one of the ones that had the good trigger and it's a pretty good shooter. Actually, even the paratrooper is a good shooter once you get used to the DA trigger pull. Both will group Norinco or Wolf surplus into 3" at 100 yards. They're not ammo picky at all, though they do seem to prefer 154 Wolf soft point, shaves about a half inch off those groups. I have fired and killed two deer with my own reloads, but never bought any of the commercial ammo.

jim243
March 9, 2013, 01:52 PM
that jumping to 12" groups is way too large to just be an ammo problem


Actually it is an ammo problem. The SKS was made with .310, .311 & .312 barrels. You need to know what your barrel is to get the right ammo or just try out a lot.

When I first got my Yugo I tried Wolf 7.62x39 and was getting 6 inch groups with open sights at 50 yards (12 inch at 100). Change over to my handloads using 125 grain .310 bullets and started getting 2 inch groups at 50 yards.

Once you find the right ammo, keep using it.
Jim

MCgunner
March 9, 2013, 04:09 PM
My handloads shot 3.5" at 100 yards with a .308" bullet out of my .311" Norinco, specifically the now discontinued Sierra Pro Hunter .308" 135 grain pistol bullet designed for hunting with .30-30 and .30 Herret Contenders. I used that bullet on two deer, worked great. One was a neck/frontal shot at 80 yards. I don't buy it being an ammo problem either when it's shooting 12MOA. I'd toss it and try something else, myself, or get it looked over by a good riflesmith, if you can find one that'll work on it.

I've never fired the SKS that wouldn't shoot at LEAST 4MOA at 100 yards, but all I've ever fired were Norincos. They were plentiful and cheap 20 years ago. :D

frankenstein406
March 9, 2013, 04:23 PM
I'm pretty sure the stock rear sight moving side to side is one of the problems, but 300 yards with irons on a man size target is pretty good.

The_Armed_Therapist
March 9, 2013, 04:51 PM
Tightened mine. Guess thats just me then.

I know it will help the groups; it did with my 10/22. I'm just saying that I'm very skeptical that they can make up the difference between 12MOA or greater groups and 6MOA or smaller groups.

newfalguy101
March 9, 2013, 06:38 PM
Try Wolf 154gr softpoints.

Dr T
March 9, 2013, 07:24 PM
There were some manufacturing issues with some of the Norincos.

I have a pre-Norinco Chinese SKS that will shoot about 2 to 3 inches at 100 yards with ball.

Ignition Override
March 10, 2013, 12:36 AM
The fully-adjustable version of the Tech Sights on my Norinco SKS made it much more accurate.
Removing the original rear leaf sight only required a bit of muscle.

The day my Norinco somehow gets worn out, it will be replaced with another SKS. End of story.

trueg50
March 10, 2013, 08:49 AM
The fully-adjustable version of the Tech Sights on my Norinco SKS made it much more accurate.
Removing the original rear leaf sight only required a bit of muscle.

The day my Norinco somehow gets worn out, it will be replaced with another SKS. End of story.
Look at what we go through to clean and maintain our SKS.. then imagine what the NVA were doing. Given how well my SKS shoots, it is my go-to rifle!

Bob Dunlap was discussing a vietnamese SKS that was captured, and on the gas rod the first ring was half gone, and the rest of the rings were scalloped, yet it still shot fine.. now how many rifles made today could survive that? Granted I will never ever intentionally treat a rifle like that, but it is capable of taking a licking and keep on ticking.

The_Armed_Therapist
March 10, 2013, 01:24 PM
I took the SKS apart to clean it, though I haven't actually cleaned it yet. I checked all of the parts; and while I'm not expert, I don't believe any of them are broken or majorly damaged. The rear sight does not move or wobble in any way, nor does the stock. I also don't see any obvious damage on the crown. The rifling looks OK, too, but then again I'm not expert. I can see it clearly, and that's all I have to go on.

How do I measure the bore to know if the ammo I'm using is large enough for optimal accuracy? The difference between .308 and .311 seems awfully small to measure accurately...

joeschmoe
March 10, 2013, 05:06 PM
Insert a round into the muzzle end of the barrel. It should be a tight fit. Try inserting various ammo types see which one give you a tight fit. Preferable it won't go all the way into the brass. It should stand out a bit, but accept the whole point. You want tight, but not too tight.




http://www.thegca.org/images/mw_bullet_test.jpg

The_Armed_Therapist
March 10, 2013, 07:11 PM
Insert a round into the muzzle end of the barrel. It should be a tight fit. Try inserting various ammo types see which one give you a tight fit. Preferable it won't go all the way into the brass. It should stand out a bit, but accept the whole point. You want tight, but not too tight.

I have three types of ammo currently in my possession. Tulammo FMJ, Tulammo HP, and some stuff marked NK (backwards Russian N) 1971. Sorry I don't have any pictures, but both of the Tulammo stuff sticks out further than the NK stuff.

The_Armed_Therapist
March 10, 2013, 07:20 PM
I found one thing that I'm wondering about. Is there supposed to be a "crack" or a hole of some kind at the gas cylinder front bracket? I guess since the piston needs some kind of force to operate, that this could be integral to the gun. When I held up the barrel to the sun, I saw what looked like a crack right around that spot. Is that normal?

The rifle wasn't as dirty as I thought it would be. It was more dirty from former use than recent use. I got it about 6 years ago, and have used it very sparingly (mostly just in the past year). The former owner is a friend of mine, and I imagine he probably cleaned it frequently. So I'm left not any more sure than I was before, except that I ruled some stuff out. Nothing wobbles, including the stock and sights, nothing seems broken. The crown seems OK, etc...

Next time I go I'll be sure to try some different types of ammo and see if these groups can tighten up. I'm also going to go back through this thread and read all of the suggestions and see if I missed anything that I can try right now before I go back to the range.

Thanks for the help,

Therapist

The_Armed_Therapist
March 12, 2013, 11:14 AM
What should the bedding of an SKS look like? I honestly didn't see anything that I could call bedding. Is this a path worth pursuing to help tighten up my groups?

T.R.
March 12, 2013, 05:41 PM
A god condition Russian SKS with scope sight will shoot best groups with Winchester soft tip ammo. 2.5 inch groups at 100 yards are common. Cheapy commie ammo shoots into 3.5 to 4.5 groups at 100 yards.

SKS rifles are sturdy and built to last.

TR

pseudonymity
March 12, 2013, 05:53 PM
What should the bedding of an SKS look like? I honestly didn't see anything that I could call bedding. Is this a path worth pursuing to help tighten up my groups?

Mine looks like a canoe carved out of a log with a bent spoon. :what:

I am not sure you can really bed the action effectively, it does not use screws. Just the tension provided by the rear of the trigger group locking up on the rear tang on the receiver.

All the best suggestions are already in here - check the crown, check the bore size, try Tech sights and a Kivaari trigger job.

joeschmoe
March 12, 2013, 06:55 PM
I've never seen inside an SKS, but the idea for any rifle is to understand the barrel/receiver vibrates as it is shot. If it hits the stock unevenly then there will be a deformation in the way it vibrates. Even before you create a new "bedding" you can smooth out high or uneven spots of the stock that might hit the barrel/receiver, unevenly. SKS's aren't known to be finely crafted. So a few minutes closely examining and carving it into cleaner lines where the barrel/receiver touches the stock should help.

Search for some threads on bedding and you'll get tons of ideas on how to do it from simple to exotic.

Desert Dog
March 12, 2013, 09:08 PM
My Yugo SKS is awesomely accurate at 100 yards using Fiocchi FMJ's. I can hold a 5" group on an 8" paper plate at that distance.

That being said, it has the full EBR treatment and the original stock is hanging out in my closet.

HankC
March 13, 2013, 01:23 AM
May wish to check the head space. I have/had 5 or 6 Norinco and Yugo SKSs. Most shoot well and the worst one had loose chamber that will almost take spent casing from my other more accurate SKSs. The accurate ones can shoot US quarter size group at 50 yds while the bad one ( a Norinco) groups 4" at 50 yds. 3 other Norincos are wonderful accurate rifles. They are all factory 26 Norincos!

Swampman
March 13, 2013, 02:26 AM
The_Armed_Therapist
"I found one thing that I'm wondering about. Is there supposed to be a "crack" or a hole of some kind at the gas cylinder front bracket?"

Would it be possible to post a picture with something to indicate the crack or hole that you're referring to?

Ignition Override
March 13, 2013, 05:13 AM
T Armed T:
After you manage to improve the gun's results-whether or not you buy the fully adj. Tech Sight-keep in mind another improvement.

Triggerdoc does some sort of work on SKS sears, though I've never tried his work, and don't know whether he shortens the pull.

My trigger is fairly smooth, but a long pull. Kind of like a Ruger (LC?) 9mm handgun I rented.

tnxdshooter
March 13, 2013, 05:25 AM
To be honest it sounds like a shot out barrel. At the very least a heavily pitted one at that.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

mljdeckard
March 13, 2013, 12:43 PM
Yeah, I dremelled off my bayonet and lug, no change.

Tech-sights+thinner post+Kivaari trigger make it a WHOLE lot better. And yeah, it is entirely possible that it's got a dinged crown, a damaged or worn barrel, a lot of things.

tnxdshooter
March 14, 2013, 03:48 AM
Yeah, I dremelled off my bayonet and lug, no change.

Tech-sights+thinner post+Kivaari trigger make it a WHOLE lot better. And yeah, it is entirely possible that it's got a dinged crown, a damaged or worn barrel, a lot of things.

Yeah,

The kivaari job I had done is about 5 pounds, very smooth, little take up, and minimal reset. It is awesome.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

Swampman
March 15, 2013, 01:33 AM
Originally Posted By The_Armed_Therapist "How do I measure the bore to know if the ammo I'm using is large enough for optimal accuracy? The difference between .308 and .311 seems awfully small to measure accurately... "

To get any really useful information, the best thing to do is slug your bore, there's a pretty good set of instructions here: http://www.surplusfirearm.com/2012/02/21/size-does-matter-slugging-a-bore/

Make sure your bore has been thoroughly cleaned and completely "decoppered" before you try to slug it, any significant amount of fouling can throw off your readings enough to make them useless.

Shooting a bullet of the proper size can make a huge difference in accuracy. I've got an old M-44 Mosin that never did any better than about 9 inch groups at 100 yards with any of the surplus ammo I tried. When I slugged it I finally discovered why, it actually miked at almost .316! Once I worked up a load with properly sized cast bullets, the little carbine would reliably group into about three inches from a good rest and on a couple of occasions when I held my mouth just right, it got close to 1.5 inches.

sixgunner455
March 15, 2013, 11:36 PM
I had one that shot like that.

I built an AR with money I was gifted and traded the SKS for a Ruger Single Six convertible.

Both are far more accurate than that SKS.

tnxdshooter
March 16, 2013, 04:28 AM
I had one that shot like that.

I built an AR with money I was gifted and traded the SKS for a Ruger Single Six convertible.

Both are far more accurate than that SKS.

Blah blah blah .223 is less than optimal. If I ever went ar it would be 6.8 spc

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

Average Joe
March 16, 2013, 03:12 PM
I have 3 SKS rifles, and shoot junk ammo, I get 5 inch groups with each, pure stock, no mods , all original. Russian, Chinese, and a Yugo @ 100 yards.

Pilot
March 16, 2013, 03:58 PM
What kind of SKS is it? I have two Russians that I've kept totally stock and they will shoot 3 inch groups at 100 yards with Wolf or Tula ammo typically.

PonyKiller
March 16, 2013, 07:01 PM
update. we took the sks down the range today, sighted in the scope and had a good time with it at the fifty yd range. We were shooting tula and wolf wpa with it, and shot the same with both. ran about 50 rounds through it, averaged right at 1.25" at fifty throughout. About every third grouping would be touching or close to a ragged hole. needless to say pop is happy!

sixgunner455
March 16, 2013, 10:55 PM
Blah blah blah .223 is less than optimal. If I ever went ar it would be 6.8 spc

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

Do you have a point here? I have a 5.56 upper, and a 6.8 upper.

My point was, I had an SKS that shot about as well as the OP's rifle. It was a fun rifle, and had some interesting history behind it, but ultimately, I dumped it because it didn't shoot accurately enough to be worth wasting money throwing rounds down its barrel, and got something I like better that shoots lights out.

Ignition Override
March 17, 2013, 12:10 AM
If the gun will fragment a small target at 50 or 100 yards, it's good enough for many of us.
Tomorrow, hitting a 4" chunk of a concrete block from 120 yards is the objective: Enfield, FR8, Garand.

tnxdshooter
March 17, 2013, 04:03 AM
Do you have a point here? I have a 5.56 upper, and a 6.8 upper.

My point was, I had an SKS that shot about as well as the OP's rifle. It was a fun rifle, and had some interesting history behind it, but ultimately, I dumped it because it didn't shoot accurately enough to be worth wasting money throwing rounds down its barrel, and got something I like better that shoots lights out.

Yeah,

All the ar fan boys rave about .223. I use .223 at work and it's nothing special. The 6.8 spc has the same terminal ballistics as a .270 thus more stopping power. There is a reason special forces that use the m 4 went with 6.8. It's because they knew .223 was crap. 6.8 also is a more accurate round than .223

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

kyhunter
March 17, 2013, 04:14 AM
tnxd you are spot on. bigger hole + more energy is always a plus. A 6.8 does everything a 5.56 does and then some

tnxdshooter
March 17, 2013, 06:38 AM
tnxd you are spot on. bigger hole + more energy is always a plus. A 6.8 does everything a 5.56 does and then some

According to the research I've done there have been numerous cases in Iraq and Afghanistan where enemy combatants were not stopped with several shots from .223 rounds. (opium is a Hella pain killer). However the research I have done had shown the 6.8 spc to be the most effective one shot stop round for the m4 platform. Add to that the fact the 6.8 magazines for the ar can still hold 25 rounds you're not really losing much capacity wise. Plus your getting better accuracy and terminal ballistics from 6.8 spc.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

JRWhit
March 17, 2013, 07:22 AM
I found one thing that I'm wondering about. Is there supposed to be a "crack" or a hole of some kind at the gas cylinder front bracket? I guess since the piston needs some kind of force to operate, that this could be integral to the gun. When I held up the barrel to the sun, I saw what looked like a crack right around that spot. Is that normal?

WAIT A MINUTE. There is a big difference between a hole and a crack. If you think you have a crack in the barrel it's time to shut her down. Get to a smith and get that checked with a good eye and a bore scope. If that barrel has been stressed enough to crack STOP SHOOTING IT. You don't want it to come apart in your hands. I don't think I can say this enough, If you think there is a crack at the gas port, stop and get it checked out. Nothing else you do is as important as that.

carbine85
March 17, 2013, 09:03 AM
You might want to try some wipe-out to clean out copper fouling and follow up with some JB bore polish. Removing copper fouling was a big help in one of my Mosins and the bore looked shinny before I cleaned it.
I did a trigger job on my Yugo and that helped a lot.
Most people don't get 3" groups with irons out of their SKS.

Justin
March 17, 2013, 07:34 PM
The factory sights on the SKS are, at best, glorified pistol sights, and in general, utter trash.

Spend the $60 for a set of Tech Sights. I did this, and my SKS went from a useless hunk of noise-making garbage that fired shotgun patterns at 100 yards to being about 4 MOA with Wolf and Russian surplus.

If you have a synthetic stock, you may have to do a bit of carving on it to accomodate the sights, but seeing as I consider my SKS to be nothing more than a redneck trunk gun, I'm ok with that.

A Kivaari trigger would also be a good suggestion as well, though I've no experience with them.

http://tech-sights.com/

Shawn Dodson
March 17, 2013, 08:55 PM
The factory sights on the SKS are, at best, glorified pistol sights, and in general, utter trash.

I shoot my "factory sights" just fine. I don't regard them as trash. Never had a problem with them. But then I've been shooting with iron "rifle" sights for well over 40 years.

Tech Sights aren't going tighten up a 12" group at 100 yds.

tnxdshooter
March 18, 2013, 03:41 AM
I shoot my "factory sights" just fine. I don't regard them as trash. Never had a problem with them. But then I've been shooting with iron "rifle" sights for well over 40 years.

Tech Sights aren't going tighten up a 12" group at 100 yds.

Right

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

Ignition Override
March 18, 2013, 04:06 AM
Justin:
Have you ever watched any guys in a free stance with an AK clone, hitting a smallish gong from over 200 yards with the iron sights?
"Brandon 401401" appears to do it quite well from 300 yards. "Hickok45" is not bad at all from approx. 200.

It can't be called precision shooting, but I doubt that many people can do it. Shouldn't the SKS have the same potential, especially with the Tech Sight?

tnxdshooter
March 18, 2013, 04:07 AM
Well i'm reading bad reviews about the kns front site with several people saying it won't fit a Norinco. I'm thinking about maybe getting the skinny tech site front and painting the tip white.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

Jamesgr86
March 7, 2016, 05:14 AM
Ok, I see this thread is a little old, but I hope you didn't give up, and maybe my reply will help people who come here in the future. I was gifted a Chinese Norinco Sporter from my father. It was pretty cool looking in it's original wood stock, and light to boot. I took it out shooting a couple weekends after I got the thing, and being an ex infantrymen with thousands of hours of range practice and the only one in my company that could out shoot our CO, didnt think what happened was going to happen... which was I couldnt hit a dang thing. Ha, actually thinking back my girlfriend who had never shot in her life before she met me hit a bottle. But I didn't give up, cause I was already planning on bringing the looks of this Rifle to the 21st century. So I had previously ordered a Tapco Intrafuse stock, a pistol grip, bipod and other small accessories for the rifle which I received a couple of days after I had shot the rifle the first time. Once assembled I went out the following weekend and sighted it in. Once sighted in I set up targets and went out about 100 yards, and took a couple shots, direct hit. seemed to easy and the backdrop dirt clouds was telling me I could go farther, so I went as far back as I could before going over the wide dirt road and took a couple more shots. Again direct hits. That was probably about 475 yards. I didnt know of any other places i could go to try further distances. Well a couple months later a friend called me up asking if I wanted to come with him to shoot his roomates newly purchased fully upgraded 50-caliber rifle. Had been bought from a guy who does competition shooting and it had probably $10 grand of work done to it. We got out to a different range in the middle of nowhere drove to a spot and setup a bunch of targets, then we got back in the truck and drove about 2-3 minutes back up the road to a small hill overlooking the valley and the targets. Range was about 1325 yards. After having fun with the 50-cal, and completely blowing out the windows in his poor roommates truck do to the compression.. heh heh heh I told him that might happen, but he didnt wanna listen... anyways i thought hey for ****s and giggles let's see what's what with my sks. so i setup, re-adjusted my scope to the distance we were shooting and windage, probably had 11-15 mile hour winds that day, and took a couple shots, and missed. Oops, had turned the windage the wrong way, ok.. fixed it. took a couple more shots, adjusting for winds, and finally .. bam.. hit... bam .. hit. So, my conclusion with the sks, is ya'll better go out and get em while there still $150 dollars, because yeah, you can't hit crap over 500 yards in it's original form, but once you change out a few things like the stock for one, and a grip and bipod for stability, cost me no more than $160 actually for everything, you can do some damage with these suckers. My shot groups at the ranges of 75-500 yards are all within 3-5 inches in diameter. I dont really shoot over it but since that one day, but I do know you can hit targets with it at further ranges.

TimSr
March 7, 2016, 09:01 AM
I know it's not the best stuff for accuracy, but my assumption was that jumping to 12" groups is way too large to just be an ammo problem.

I had the same struggle with mine. it IS the ammo! I shot Russian ball, and Samson Israeli soft pot ammo in my Chinese, and it grouped about as well as yours.

Just for kicks I handloaded loaded some 150gr bullets, some FMJBT, PSP, and RNSP. The FMJBT reduced the group size a little, the PSP cut the groups in half, and the Round Nose Soft Point (Speer) bullets are shooting groups of a about 4 inches at 100 yards, and are way better than my eyes! buy the way, these were .308" bullets!

FL-NC
March 7, 2016, 09:16 AM
Your gun may be "shot out". or you could have just got a crappy one. Quality control isn't that great in the PRC.

meanmrmustard
March 7, 2016, 09:20 AM
Blah blah blah .223 is less than optimal. If I ever went ar it would be 6.8 spc

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.
Less than optimal for what, if I may ask?

tnxdshooter
March 7, 2016, 09:25 AM
Less than optimal for what, if I may ask?
Hunting

tnxdshooter
March 7, 2016, 09:26 AM
Less than optimal for what, if I may ask?
Shooting through barriers, etc

meanmrmustard
March 7, 2016, 09:52 AM
Hunting
Well, I can't speak for the barrier penetration nor the 6.8spc ballistics. I've never owned one, nor aspired to. Its seemingly a dead cartridge, not widely available, and not something I can easily get components for. 6.5 Grendel covers that niche quite well apparently, so I wont get into a debate over ballistics at distance or barrier penetration.

What I will attest to is the hunting prowess a 223/556 has. I live in North East Missouri. The deer here are large, well fed, and have a knack for needing good shot placement with ANY bullet. Now, I've been using in one iteration or another, a 223 since 2003 for taking deer and coyotes here. If I recall, and I may have to access the DNR site for an accurate count of my tags filled, I have taken about 30 deer using a 55 gr Barnes VorTX at ranges up to and including 180 yards. I've recovered all deer shot this way, found adequate tissue destruction, and easily followed blood trails due to pass through shots. I have yet (knock on wood) to fail in finding a deer I've put a 223 into. All this, and our deer are much larger in size, weight, and hair thickness than those south of the Ozark Mountains. I cannot in good conscience say that 6.8 is "better" than 223/556. Its just another option among many, especially when its all about shot placement, adequate damage, and knowing ones limits. Had we been discussing the adequacy of 6.8 vs 556 in the battlefield theater I'd guess the 6.8 would shine for that purpose, as wounding is the name of the game, so says the Geneva Convention. But we aren't, we are talking hunting. So, while I assume you have tales of deer killed at 500 yards or better, with a DRT thrown in for good measure, I can't buy it at Walmart, the components for a rifle (barrel, bolt namely) and those needed to reload for are as hens teeth. Here, id be better off going 6.5 Grendel, which blows 6.8 away, or plop on a 300 blk upper if I felt I needed heavier bullets and marginally more energy. Heck, folks have been putting game down with 300blk with aplomb lately. And I can buy it locally, and it emulates the 762 but is more efficient, which has also taken a slough of deer over many decades in the SKS. I dont see 6.8 killing anything but my wallet. I need results, and a cartridge that puts meat in the freezer.

And 223, where legal, does that just fine.

tnxdshooter
March 7, 2016, 09:54 AM
The 6.8 has the same terminal ballistics as 270 and 6.5 has nearly the same ballistics as .243

meanmrmustard
March 7, 2016, 10:08 AM
The 6.8 has the same terminal ballistics as 270 and 6.5 has nearly the same ballistics as .243
And yet, the 270 does nothing a 30-06 can't already do, and cheaper. Whereas, I'm not seeing many long range builds done in 6.8 spc, or 270 for that matter, in my community.

So, I fail to see your point. Are you suggesting that the 6.8 is ballistically superior to 762x39? If so, I'm sure we know that. But, the OP shoots an SKS chambered in 762, so what does 6.8 discussions ad md to this thread. As I think about it, you're the only one I know who even cares that the SPC exists, let alone shoots it. I've never seen a rifle in my LGS's chambered for it, and I find myself ok with that. I can't shoot it in my ARs as there's no ammo, it does nothing better than anything I already own, and to ACTUALLY add to this thread, it isn't an SKS round! In summation, suggesting a dead cartridge that no one cares about as a solution to a rifle accuracy dilemma solves nothing.

tnxdshooter
March 7, 2016, 10:17 AM
And yet, the 270 does nothing a 30-06 can't already do, and cheaper. Whereas, I'm not seeing many long range builds done in 6.8 spc, or 270 for that matter, in my community.

So, I fail to see your point. Are you suggesting that the 6.8 is ballistically superior to 762x39? If so, I'm sure we know that. But, the OP shoots an SKS chambered in 762, so what does 6.8 discussions ad md to this thread. As I think about it, you're the only one I know who even cares that the SPC exists, let alone shoots it. I've never seen a rifle in my LGS's chambered for it, and I find myself ok with that. I can't shoot it in my ARs as there's no ammo, it does nothing better than anything I already own, and to ACTUALLY add to this thread, it isn't an SKS round! In summation, suggesting a dead cartridge that no one cares about as a solution to a rifle accuracy dilemma solves nothing.
I don't shoot it and don't even have an AR. In fact I don't even know how we got on this subject!

meanmrmustard
March 7, 2016, 10:23 AM
I don't shoot it and don't even have an AR. In fact I don't even know how we got on this subject!
Fair enough.

But, your ballistics statement is a falsehood, and id ask that you review your data.

Edarnold
March 7, 2016, 01:18 PM
I only saw one mention of slugging the bore to establish correct bullet diameter. My own experience on a very nicely made Chinese SKS gave me a further insight about SKS accuracy that may save others from wasting a lot of time and money trying to fix their rifle. Accuracy with both surplus and WRA ammo was poor, 6" or worse at 100 yards with a lot of flyers was typical. Hand loads did no better. I got some .312 diameter lead balls, lightly oiled the bore and started pushing. The slug was tight through the rear sight area, suddenly loose in the midsection, tightened up at the gas block, then loose up to the front sight. That also explained why the holes in the targets had a black rim on them: enough gas blow-by to coat the ogive with soot. My guess is that in manufacture, the rear-sight base, gas block and front sight were heated and shrunk-fitted to the barrel, which caused the tight spots.
I had spent some money already a scope mount, Tapco stock and assorted extras. The results of this simple test proved that this rifle, no matter how much tinkering, was never going to give acceptable accuracy. It is long gone. Before jumping into 'fixing' one of these guns, check to see if you have a uniform bore diameter, otherwise you are wasting your time and money[emoji30]

ColoradoShooter77
March 7, 2016, 04:08 PM
From a bench, I can get 4" groups at 100 yards with my Yugo 59/66. Its a pretty good shooter.

kBob
March 7, 2016, 04:47 PM
It Lives!

Old thread but I have said before......I got a Norinco while they were still coming in and some pee smelling Chinese ammo and was under whelmed. What I did to decrease group sizes by 50 prevent in either direction was simple. I bought Lapua ammo from Finland. Keng's, a major distributor of all things Chinese back then had a lot of Lapua 123 grain FMJ for not a lot more than the Chinese stinky ammo.....and it was Boxer primed. I bought "a little" and still have a few hundred in with my Wolf stash.

In a fit of silliness I traded most of my once fired brass for .45 Colt brass.

Only thing I did to the gun was add a rubber butt pad of sorts oget an extra inch of pull.....what with being close to 6'2" and having arms described as Orangatangish. It is a bit of hard rubber screwed down over the steel butt plate and has a hole to access the cleaning kit door. Hmm, need a new cleaning kit though.

Compared to most Mausers the SKS sights are fantastic. Having a working sight tool is nice though. If I do anything else to it will likely be Tech Sights as I love the ones on a Ruger 10/22 I used at an Appleseed.

From various sources I have heard that more than 4 MILLION of the SKS have been imported, some sources saying over 6 million. May be a Russian design and most in the country Red Chinese but I think I would not be far off describing it as the American Volks Gewar. I have to wonder how many of them went in the ground or got walled up along with lead sealed cans of Chinese steel core ammo during the first assault weapons push and are still there.

-kBob

Tactical Lever
March 7, 2016, 05:21 PM
Ok, I see this thread is a little old, but I hope you didn't give up, and maybe my reply will help people who come here in the future. I was gifted a Chinese Norinco Sporter from my father. It was pretty cool looking in it's original wood stock, and light to boot. I took it out shooting a couple weekends after I got the thing, and being an ex infantrymen with thousands of hours of range practice and the only one in my company that could out shoot our CO, didnt think what happened was going to happen... which was I couldnt hit a dang thing. Ha, actually thinking back my girlfriend who had never shot in her life before she met me hit a bottle. But I didn't give up, cause I was already planning on bringing the looks of this Rifle to the 21st century. So I had previously ordered a Tapco Intrafuse stock, a pistol grip, bipod and other small accessories for the rifle which I received a couple of days after I had shot the rifle the first time. Once assembled I went out the following weekend and sighted it in. Once sighted in I set up targets and went out about 100 yards, and took a couple shots, direct hit. seemed to easy and the backdrop dirt clouds was telling me I could go farther, so I went as far back as I could before going over the wide dirt road and took a couple more shots. Again direct hits. That was probably about 475 yards. I didnt know of any other places i could go to try further distances. Well a couple months later a friend called me up asking if I wanted to come with him to shoot his roomates newly purchased fully upgraded 50-caliber rifle. Had been bought from a guy who does competition shooting and it had probably $10 grand of work done to it. We got out to a different range in the middle of nowhere drove to a spot and setup a bunch of targets, then we got back in the truck and drove about 2-3 minutes back up the road to a small hill overlooking the valley and the targets. Range was about 1325 yards. After having fun with the 50-cal, and completely blowing out the windows in his poor roommates truck do to the compression.. heh heh heh I told him that might happen, but he didnt wanna listen... anyways i thought hey for ****s and giggles let's see what's what with my sks. so i setup, re-adjusted my scope to the distance we were shooting and windage, probably had 11-15 mile hour winds that day, and took a couple shots, and missed. Oops, had turned the windage the wrong way, ok.. fixed it. took a couple more shots, adjusting for winds, and finally .. bam.. hit... bam .. hit. So, my conclusion with the sks, is ya'll better go out and get em while there still $150 dollars, because yeah, you can't hit crap over 500 yards in it's original form, but once you change out a few things like the stock for one, and a grip and bipod for stability, cost me no more than $160 actually for everything, you can do some damage with these suckers. My shot groups at the ranges of 75-500 yards are all within 3-5 inches in diameter. I dont really shoot over it but since that one day, but I do know you can hit targets with it at further ranges.
People are really bad at judging distance. And remembered groups tend to shrink a bit.

Tactical Lever
March 7, 2016, 05:24 PM
The 6.8 has the same terminal ballistics as 270 and 6.5 has nearly the same ballistics as .243
Not on this planet. You might want to review some ballistics. And how do you define "terminal ballistics"?

taliv
March 7, 2016, 06:26 PM
last activity for the OP was 6 months ago. this thread has drifted far from the original topic. please start a new thread if you want to discuss the other topics

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