What is the minimum OAL for bullpups?


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12guagecody
March 8, 2013, 01:00 AM
just curious what the minimum oal is for a bullpup without going sbr

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NOLAEMT
March 8, 2013, 01:07 AM
same as any rifle.

26"

12guagecody
March 8, 2013, 01:43 AM
cool thanks

tahunua001
March 8, 2013, 03:14 AM
same as any rifle.

dangit... so close...
only to find someone else beat me to it.

rehorne
March 8, 2013, 10:21 PM
ahhh it has to have a 16" bbl and an overall length 0f 26"

W L Johnson
March 9, 2013, 10:36 AM
There is no separate bullpup category as far as the laws are concerned, it's just another rifle to the ATF. Same rules apply.
Min 16" barrel
Min 26" overall length

Now if you get a SBR (Short barrel Rifle) tax stamp then it can be shorter, but most bullpups are already just about as short as they can go. Usually not much left to cut.

BTW: Friend build a 7.5" barrel AR SBR and it was only 1/4 of an inch shorted than my MSAR with a 16" barrel. I'll take the longer barrel any day of the week.

MachIVshooter
March 9, 2013, 01:02 PM
BTW: Friend build a 7.5" barrel AR SBR and it was only 1/4 of an inch shorted than my MSAR with a 16" barrel. I'll take the longer barrel any day of the week.

That's the advantage of the bullpup design. The disadvantages are:

-Generally crappy triggers

-Either not ambidextrous or incorporates ejection system that proves problematic for clearing jams

-Magazine changes are rather awkward

-In the event of a kaboom, your face is against the receiver, rather than behind it.

I like the bullpup concept, but generally find the execution lacking. Jury is still out on the RFB. I want one, but won't buy until I can actually hold one. One thing is for certain, though; Mag changes with any bullpup design are going to be slower and more cumbersome than with AR or AR-type (SCAR, HK416, etc) platforms.

Kachok
March 9, 2013, 01:50 PM
That's the advantage of the bullpup design. The disadvantages are:

-Generally crappy triggers


And factory AR trigger are great or something? That is news to me :D I have yet to see the stock AR15 trigger that would hold a candle to the one on my modern bolt guns. Never understood that, they spend all this extra money on fancy attachments and still use a crappy trigger.

MachIVshooter
March 9, 2013, 02:04 PM
And factory AR trigger are great or something?

5-8 lbs, 2-stage, well defined.

And you can change them if you so desire.

Not the case with any bullpup I'm aware of. The RFB allegedly has a decent trigger. Every other BP I've played with (AUG, FS2K, M17S, multiple conversions) are north of 8 lbs, crunchy, mushy, just generally terrible.

12guagecody
March 9, 2013, 02:24 PM
Im not gonna be running three gun or carrying it on duty or anything, its all for fun! lighten up guys :)

Girodin
March 9, 2013, 06:28 PM
Now if you get a SBR (Short barrel Rifle) tax stamp then it can be shorter, but most bullpups are already just about as short as they can go.

Not really. Almost all of the ones I'm familiar with had shorter than 16 barrel versions.

AUG: It has versions with a barrel under 14". I believe it was 13" and some change but would have to look it up. It also had longer versions, 20" and I believe even 24" barreled versions.

FN P90: The 16" barrel exists solely on the PS90 to comply with nonsensical laws. The original was around 10".

The Tavor has both 15" and 13" versions.

The Famas has a roughly 13" barrel version.

I do believe that the SA80 had a barrel longer than 16" and the F2000 is a 16" barrel with the FS2000 being a touch over 17" IIRC.

There is a version of the QBZ-95, a Chinese bullpup, with a shorter than 16" barrel.

Of those available in the US the only one I would have much interest in shortening is the PS90. An AUG or a Tavor would be alright to shorten but for me it just wouldn't be worth the expense or effort. I've not shot a Tavor but I had an AUG and am basing my personal stance on that experience. An RFB I wouldn't shorten because of the caliber. Anything less than 16" on a 308 looses enough velocity to make me choose another caliber. I'd have to look up the bushmaster bullpup, I'm not real familiar with it.

W L Johnson
March 10, 2013, 01:30 AM
That's why I said "most" and "just about" Plus I'm only concerned about models available for sale in the US to civilians (ie us). They don't need all that SBR and whatnot silliness for military versions.

Most of those you mentioned are military versions. If you look at most civilian versions you can cut the barrel down a bit but because of the stock and/or gas piston arrangements etc... on most you'll be losing no more than an inch or two. PS90 being one of the bigger (smaller :rolleyes:) exceptions. IMHO going through all the trouble and expense of a SBR tax stamp is just not worth it for only an inch or two. But to each their own.

BTW: The 13" barrel Tavor you mentioned is the Micro Tavor (aka x95 aka Tavor-2) and has some other design changes other than the barrel. Last I heard will it not be sold in the US.

Girodin
March 10, 2013, 01:50 AM
That's why I said "most" and "just about" Plus I'm only concerned about models available for sale in the US to civilians (ie us).

I'm not sure its been established that "most" couldn't go shorter. If you want to narrow your statement to commonly available semi auto guns that is a different statement than bullpups which refers to the entire class. Most of the guns I mentioned are the commonly available bullpups since that is the class that is most likely to be of concern to the OPs question.

Most of those you mentioned are military versions. If you look at most civilian versions you can cut the barrel down a bit but because of the stock and/or gas piston arrangements etc... on most you'll be losing no more than an inch or two.

Civilian versions are all going to have 16" barrels so as not to be SBRs. The point of showing what other versions of those guns have is to show how short one can go. In many instances that will a bit under 14", or a bit more than 2".

IMHO going through all the trouble and expense of a SBR tax stamp is just not worth it for only an inch or two. But to each their own.

I agree whether that is worth it to someone or not is up to them. Plenty of people get 12.5" AR uppers and then stick a muzzle device on them and they are not that much shorter than a 14.5" gun with a pinned device. Whats worth it to one person may or may not be to another. For me I wouldn't have thought it worth SBRing my AUG.

I will say, however, tax stamps really are not that much trouble. When people talk about all the trouble and paper work I wonder how many items requiring a tax stamp they have actually bought. In some locals it may be more of a pain to get a sign of. Of course if you are going to have more than 1 or 2 items (and even if just that many) I think a trust is the best route.

I highly doubt that any version of the Tavor or any other bullpup will be sold with a barrel less than 16". SBRs have a relatively small market. Whether one could be chopped to 13" and be made reliable IDK, but I'd imagine it could be done.

Sam Cade
March 10, 2013, 01:51 AM
And factory AR trigger are great or something? That is news to me I have yet to see the stock AR15 trigger that would hold a candle to the one on my modern bolt guns. Never understood that, they spend all this extra money on fancy attachments and still use a crappy trigger.

Eh?

Factory triggers?

Most serious shooters or competitors are going to have a SSA or similar trigger pack in their AR, which is already standard on many rifles.

SSA triggers will be just north of 2 lbs which is too light for some folks, and too light to be legal in Service Rifle.

Kachok
March 10, 2013, 07:14 AM
Well none of the ARs I ever shot had one, I have asked about a good trigger on an AR before and everyone said to install an aftermarket. I love a good light crisp trigger.

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