lee breechlock press problem, warranty?


PDA






gonefishin1
March 8, 2013, 01:51 AM
Ok so I have had this press about 3 months now and the quick change bushing is partly stripped and allows the die to move a little and also to change the die I now have to hold it with pliers to keep it from spinning. The teeth on the bushing that hold on the dowel pin are what stripped.

I emailed lee and they didn't want to replace it but said they would sell me one for half price. Does this seem right? Has anyone else had this happen?

If you enjoyed reading about "lee breechlock press problem, warranty?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Centurian22
March 8, 2013, 02:19 AM
What on god's green earth did you do to that thing?!? I've always heard of and known lee to make right on anything that was defective but I can not possibly see how that damage could be done under proper operating conditions and procedures. I would take the '1/2 off' offer personally. Unless you can explain how this is a fault of manufacturing or defective piece.

Lost Sheep
March 8, 2013, 02:21 AM
From whom did you buy the press?

Lee has a 1 year warranty (edit of 3/8/13: I thought 1 year, but others are saying 2 years. OK by me.) (but often extends if far beyond that). They also have a policy of replacing anything that broke out of warranty with a new one for half price.

If it were me and my bushing was loose from the beginning, I would call or write and insist they make good on the faulty part(s).

I have had dealings with Lee Precision and a retailer which specializes in Lee goods (Factory Sales, now known as FSReloading) and found varying degrees of competency, but always was able to get through (diplomatically) to a satisfactory conclusion.

Please try again and give them another opportunity to redeem themselves in your eyes.

Good Luck

Lost Sheep

edit: It looks as if the bushing was cross-threaded at one point. Normally I hold the spring-loaded pin down with a finger while inserting the bushing into the press, making sure it is properly aligned with the vertical and the notch at the 10 o'clock position (the spring-loaded pin marks 12 o'clock) and I make SURE the threads are engaged. Then still holding the spring-loaded pin down with a finger, twisting the bushing into place, only letting the pin up just before the notch in the bushing lines up with the pin.

Pliers? Never. Wrench? Should not be necessary once the die has been seated and tightened once. If you regularly need more than finger strength, you did something wrong. But my experience with Lee is that they come back the way you would expect a good company to.

GT1
March 8, 2013, 02:25 AM
Uhm. No, I have never seen that before.

david_r
March 8, 2013, 02:51 AM
You should only need your hand to tighten your dies in your press. It looks like you are over-tightening your dies and damaged the bushing through not understanding this. That isn't wear, it is abuse.

$5 plus shipping would be a good way to remember to put the pipe wrenches in the tool box when changing dies. I just hope you didn't damage the interrupted threads in the casting.

bigfinger76
March 8, 2013, 03:07 AM
You should only need your hand to tighten your dies in your press. It looks like you are over-tightening your dies and damaged the bushing through not understanding this. That isn't wear, it is abuse.

$5 plus shipping would be a good way to remember to put the pipe wrenches in the tool box when changing dies. I just hope you didn't damage the interrupted threads in the casting.

I don't know, those threads in the casting look pretty chewed up too. Bad juju...

ArchAngelCD
March 8, 2013, 03:34 AM
It's obvious from the pictures you took a pipe wrench/ water pump pliers or something else to that bushing and it's not a manufacture's defect. IMO you are lucky they even offered the half price deal, I would take it before they change their mind...

Also, next time you ask a company to replace something for free you might want to remove from the picture the dies from a competitor (RCBS die is clearly in the picture) although I doubt that had anything to do with them not wanting to replace something that was abused.

GT1
March 8, 2013, 04:38 AM
I was thinking pipe wrench myself. It looks like that big RCBS lock ring got in the way and instead of backing off the die to get to the button, someone took the hard way.

Not yelling or getting on you, but...someone is here every day and if something feels wrong, ask questions first before getting out the big tools. :)

I'm betting the press frame is okay, just need to clean up those bushing lugs and get a new bushing, hopefully.

StandingTall
March 8, 2013, 07:25 AM
IMO, that don't look like a manufacturer's defect to me.

gonefishin1
March 8, 2013, 10:43 AM
Its not the threads that stripped it was the aluminum teeth holding the dowle pin and it stripped when I was trying to loosen the nut. I used pliers because I couldn't find my wrench that's why there are teeth marks on the nut. I never bought more bushings because they are out of stock everywhere so I have changed the dies probably 50 times or more. The bushing has always moved around a little on the dowel pin since new when changing dies and its just gotten worse and worse. I never put pliers or anything on the actual bushing just to hold die from moving and to release lock ring.

I have loaded a couple thousand rounds on it at least between me and my neighbor. There is nothing wrong with the press or threads just the bushing and a little to the dowel.

I only hand tighten the die but I use I wrench to tighten lock ring lightly. Nothing major. I think the problem is that I change dies often in the bushing instead of leaving the bushing on the dies

floydster
March 8, 2013, 11:21 AM
Amazing equipment abuse, I wouldn't have the balls to ask Lee for a replacement.

Smokeyloads

Cleftwynd
March 8, 2013, 11:23 AM
It's very obvious that the tool marks on the die lock ring line up perfectly with tool marks on the bushing, someone tried to loosen the lock ring with too large of a tool and it was too low and caught the bushing as well. It then twisted the bushing passed the button on the press. Instead of stopping once the bushing cleared the interrupted threads it was forced back into the threads with said tool in the wrong direction.

IMHO this damage was caused by a gorilla using too much force with the wrong tools while not paying enough attention to the equipment.

Sadly the challenger press is cast aluminum and easily damaged by people that lack finesse and attention.

Hondo 60
March 8, 2013, 12:05 PM
Ya, sorry gonefishin, but that isn't normal wear.
I think you should take Lee up on their offer.
And then keep lookin for more bushings.

They aren't designed to have the die changed hundreds of times.

StandingTall
March 8, 2013, 12:34 PM
I never bought more bushings because they are out of stock everywhere so I have changed the dies probably 50 times or more.

Get these:

https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-lock-ring-eliminator-90063.html

As of this posting, they are in stock.

david_r
March 8, 2013, 12:39 PM
I think they should be able to have the die changed 1000s of times. If you don't abuse the bushing. Seriously, hand tight on the die lock ring is enough. Maybe OP should buy some Lee lock rings with the O-ring if he is worried about them moving.

That locating pin is there to prevent the bushing from moving when setting up the die. You don't even need to line the pin up with the notch when inserting your bushing after your die is setup. Lee shows one handed removal of the bushing. That suggests to me that Lee really doesn't expect you to use a wrench on there.

Looking at how many finger grip teeth were stripped off the bushing and the upset area on what appears to be a STEEL locating pin makes me think a very large wrench was used with no regard for the equipment.

cja245
March 8, 2013, 01:00 PM
Someone people shouldn't be trusted with channel locks and pipe wrenches :rolleyes:

fguffey
March 8, 2013, 01:09 PM
Gone fishing1, I called RCBS and informed them an elephant stepped on ‘it’. They wanted to know why I had not returned the broken part, they reminded me it was not necessary to notify them before returning parts and pieces. Then next time I called them they did not ask about the elephant.

After that we started numbering the excuses, instead of wasting their time I would just give them a number.

I noticed you have a very nice die screwed into that screwed-up mess of a bushing. I am the big fan of thread engagement, my favorite thread is the square thread, then the acme, after that on matters I do not have a choice in, I have to settle with patched threads, with all threads once they bottom out there is little advantage to ‘more tighter’, your speed lock type arrangement on your bushings has reduced the ability of the threads to engage, simply put, they are not there.

Me? I am never in mortal combat with time and reloading, again, I install a die, I adjust it. I secure the die to the press with the lock ring, I do not secure the lock ring to the die. Even though the press threads are 7/8” by 14 and should tolerate 125 pounds of torque with other applications the lock nut furnishes with dies is thin, the thin nut limits the thread engagement, I suggest short wrenches when securing the lock nut, and, do not allow the die to rotate while securing the lock nut.

Pipe wrenches: I have 36” and 48” pipe wrenches along with 2’ chain wrenches, and torque wrenches, I have torque wrenches, the inch pound wrench would be more appropriate for securing the die to the bushing to the press.

F. Guffey

Legion489
March 8, 2013, 04:14 PM
Welcome to the wonderful world of Lee Customer (DIS)Service. Yes, Lee DOES claim to have a "Two Year Unlimited Warranty" (or that is what the piece of paper that came with my stuff reads, and no, it doesn't make good toilet paper either, so it is totally worthless, just like the Lee warranty) AND a "love it or return it guarantee" (which of course was pulled a month of so after they advertised it as the company nearly went bankrupt refunding money for all the new stuff they sold that was returned in only days after it was sold, as junk it is.

If they are offering you a "half price" replacement instead of what the warranty claims they will do, well you can probably get on line and find the part for half of what they want (most Lee stuff is) and then replace it. Then sell the junk press and buy a quality press. I hope this keeps you from buying junk in the future and that you buy high quality equipment that has a LIFE TIME WARRANTY that the company ACTUALLY stands behind.

On a personal note, I am sorry you had to find this out for yourself. I have tried to warn people for YEARS, but it falls on deaf ears, or I am viciously attacked for telling the truth, which some can't seem to stand.

kingmt
March 8, 2013, 04:24 PM
I'll try to be a bit nicer but you don't need a wrench to install your dies. This is one of the reasons I really like Lee lock rings. I don't have extra business ether. I just screw them in or out as I need them. I don't even use lock rings on a few of my dies because they aren't needed. I would have just called to buy one myself. Tho I'm kinda surprised they didn't replaced it anyhow. I've called them told them how I broke things & they refused to take my money even after arguing to pay. Odd.

Centurian22
March 8, 2013, 04:31 PM
Wow, yes let's bash and blame a company that makes it possible for many people to reload that wouldn't be able to otherwise for the obvious over-exertion of force with tools that the instructions tell you not to use on their equipment.

ranger335v
March 8, 2013, 04:43 PM
"Welcome to the wonderful world of Lee Customer (DIS)Service. Yes, Lee DOES claim to have a "Two Year Unlimited Warranty" (or that is what the piece of paper that came with my stuff reads, and no, it doesn't make good toilet paper either, so it is totally worthless, just like the Lee warranty) AND a "love it or return it guarantee"

Amusing rant but unfounded. All we have any right to expect of a maker of anything is to repair or replace failures due to the manufactoring process; that "failure" is not a manufactoring defect. It's easy to see the price go up on anything that does cover user abuse/misuse.

Personally, I don't screw up my gear but IF I did I would expect to pay for my error. On the other hand, I suppose if I was a mechanical klutz that did bend or break a lot of stuff I would love for others to help me pay for replacements. So far, I've bent/broken maybe a half dozen decap pins, bent two decap rods and had one shell holder retaining spring break; none of it was due to a manufactoring defect so I didn't whine about not getting 'free' replacements.

In general, I've found Lee's tools perform as well or better than others costing much more. And that comes from some 47+ years of reloading everything that goes BANG with every brand of tools available today, plus a lot of brands that are gone.

GT1
March 8, 2013, 05:08 PM
Legion prefers taking the low road, it is best to let it roll off and let him spin himself into the ground. The series of rabies shots aren't over yet, I guess.

I'm not seeing anything wrong with Lee, or their CS. Actually, if the OP had just sent in the fouled parts Lee would most likely have refurbished and sent it back no charge, they do that a lot.
Sometimes it is all about how you approach CS.

kingmt
March 8, 2013, 09:39 PM
Welcome to the wonderful world of Lee Customer (DIS)Service. Yes, Lee DOES claim to have a "Two Year Unlimited Warranty" (or that is what the piece of paper that came with my stuff reads, and no, it doesn't make good toilet paper either, so it is totally worthless, just like the Lee warranty) AND a "love it or return it guarantee" (which of course was pulled a month of so after they advertised it as the company nearly went bankrupt refunding money for all the new stuff they sold that was returned in only days after it was sold, as junk it is.

If they are offering you a "half price" replacement instead of what the warranty claims they will do, well you can probably get on line and find the part for half of what they want (most Lee stuff is) and then replace it. Then sell the junk press and buy a quality press. I hope this keeps you from buying junk in the future and that you buy high quality equipment that has a LIFE TIME WARRANTY that the company ACTUALLY stands behind.

On a personal note, I am sorry you had to find this out for yourself. I have tried to warn people for YEARS, but it falls on deaf ears, or I am viciously attacked for telling the truth, which some can't seem to stand.Just because you don't know how to use tools ether doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them. That is why you keep getting kicked from forums is you don't know what your talking about but keep running your mouth.

TheCracker
March 8, 2013, 10:48 PM
Really? Is this thread a joke?

Pics look like someone took a monkey wrench to remove the bushing without even pressing the plunger.

No way this is defective. It's user error.

Honestly, you shouldn't even be asking lee for anything on this.

gonefishin1
March 9, 2013, 01:55 AM
Ok I am an ase certified mechanic for the last 12 years I know how to use tools and am more than capable to change dies out.... I know to push the plunger in to remove the whole bushing and die but as I have said I was only removing the die. The instructions do say to tighten with a wrench so that's wgat I did and not overly tight. Trust me I know how to use just about any tool made the couple of teeth marks are from when I first got the press and couldn't find my wrench. But I will say it once again the bushing never fit tightly in the dowel and always moved around so it didn't take much at all to strip.

david_r
March 9, 2013, 02:30 AM
The instructions on your RCBS resizing die state to use a big wrench to tighten them? Really? Or do they say, "Set the large lock nut," repeatedly?

Let's quote for truth.
RCBS Universal Decap Die "Set the die lock ring...."
RCBS Bottleneck Rifle and Pistol sizing die "Set the large lock nut ...."
RCBS Straight Wall (Carbide) "Tighten the large lock nut ...."
RCBS Straight Wall (Steel) "Set the large lock nut ...."

Regardless, common sense is common sense. Your picture shows that you couldn't find your wrench at least 4 separate times. It also shows that you applied enough force to upset the steel of the locating pin. No certificate in the world can change that. YOU broke it.

If you had a problem with the press or bushing from the beginning, you should have resolved it with the manufacturer. Mentioning it after you broke the bushing makes it look like you are trying to find an excuse to avoid personal accountability for abusing your equipment.

GT1
March 9, 2013, 05:53 AM
But I will say it once again the bushing never fit tightly in the dowel and always moved around so it didn't take much at all to strip.
I am familiar with the breech lock bushings, they rattle around, but lock up the same under press load, they aren't designed to be 'tightened', just turned until the button pops in to the detent.

It took a lot of power/leverage to strip those lugs. They should have never been wrenched like that, that is all folks are saying.

Anyway, it doesn't matter now, and Lee isn't going to fix it for free as they see it that way too.

kingmt
March 9, 2013, 09:05 AM
If you would have called & explained how you made a mistake & tore it up because you didn't understand the instructions then they would have probably given you one. At least they have me 3 times or so now. Now if you called & told them there junk broke like I'm sure Legion did also. I'm sure they got offended & want as welling to give free stuff.

suzukisam
March 9, 2013, 11:08 AM
Gonefishin, my lee press looks the same way, I keep a cresent wrench hangin on my bench. if you only hand tighten your dies on rcbs dies then the whole die wants to move around while trying to adjust their prehistoric semi archaic seater adjusting nut.. so I snug.. and I mean only snug them in. the problem I ran into is that the little plunger has too much play and will actually bind your collets in and you can't tighten them or loosen them. I actually make sure when I install a dies that I do not allow the plunger and notch to line up. when removing a die and attempting to allow the collet to remain in the press use a little down pressure so that the collet can't pop up. the threads engage backwards and the die pops right out.. after 10,000 plus rounds no issues.. stay away from the little plunger, it doesn't work.. the whole it rides in is too large and allows it to cant to the side... oh and put some anti-sieze on your threads before you wish you had:) oh and I also have one collet that looks like a squirrel ate it because I followed the manual and snugged it up with a wrench and the collet bound up.. but yeah it isn't lees problem.. that is the only complaint I have about my press, so I live with it

fguffey
March 9, 2013, 11:15 AM
Today, 02:55 AM #25
gonefishin1
Member


Join Date: February 15, 2013
Location: houston
Posts: 14 Ok I am an ase certified mechanic for the last 12 years I know how to use tools and am more than capable to change dies out.... I know to push the plunger in to remove the whole bushing and die but as I have said I was only removing the die. The instructions do say to tighten with a wrench so that's wgat I did and not overly tight. Trust me I know how to use just about any tool made the couple of teeth marks are from when I first got the press and couldn't find my wrench. But I will say it once again the bushing never fit tightly in the dowel and always moved around so it didn't take much at all to strip.




Gonefishing1, I understand, I heard you the first time, the bushing is cute, it is of a weak design, poorly made, cheap, but, saves time for those that do not have time, again, me? I do not get into mortal combat with reloading, I adjust my dies every time. I do not need anything between the die and press. Aid to securing the die: place a shim between the bottom of the die and top of the shell holder, raise the ram, remove the slack while the ram is up and against the die, then secure the die to the press with the lock ring. Again, an inch pound torque wrench is adequate, if not in the hand, in the mind. And verify, I verify adjustments, I use the versatile tool, the feeler gage, it is a transfer, it is a standard and it is used for verifying.

It is not easy to get credit on the Internet, it is not easy to bring something from the outside in. I am one of the very few if not the only reloader that can determine the effort necessary to size a case without a press, it is easier with a press, back to the part where I said I am not ‘that desperate for attention’. Desperate for attention, most of the attention I get is negative, not a problem and I make no excuses. Criticism should be objective, if a better way is not suggested the criticism is not fair and or objective, it is just plain b$#^hing.

Again, I purchase tools, datums, etc., At the Big Town Gun show in Mesquite, TX. I came away with 40 lbs. of dies and everything else related to reloading for $20.00. In a good gesture? After paying for the equipment I started sorting Lee equipment like dies etc., to give them back. Immediately the dealer wanted to know what I was doing, obvious, I was giving him the lee dies back for free, he said I could not do that, seems he threw the Lee dies in for free, he gave me the Lee dies. He did not want the dies back and I did not want to haul them to the parking lot. THEN! I took the dies to the Market Hall Gun show, set the Lee dies on the table and not one person ask if they could have them. One reloader did ask about the factory crimp dies, then he told me everything there was to know about the factory crimp die then told me what I could and could not do with them. I told him I was the fan of bullet hold.

The second day I came back with cases, lots of cases, one person purchases all the 223 cases, RCBS dies, I sold 25 sets, again, I did not get one inquiry for the Lee dies, except one, the man setting next to me pointed out some of the Lee dies belong to a sailor, seems the man setting next to me was a sailor and knew knots, three sets of the Lee dies had tags that were tied to the shell holders and dies with cord with some fancy knots.

F. Guffey

Legion489
March 9, 2013, 12:27 PM
Dave, the post is about the Lee bushing. No where did I find Gonefishin1 state it was RCBS dies he was having problems with, or mentioned them at all. Really, can we keep the posts on topic and about what he asked? Yes, I know that some will now attack me for pointing out the off topic posts and posts that have nothing to do with the thread, especially attacks on me, but that is the price of telling the truth.

jose wales
March 9, 2013, 02:14 PM
I just bought a Lee Breecglock Challenger and my dosent have messed up threads like those in the pics. Looks like vice grip marks or pipe wrench. When inserting bushing just use hand presure to put bushing and die in the press. From the pics its not a manufacture defect. :banghead:

splattergun
March 9, 2013, 02:42 PM
Ummm. I own the same press. The Lee instructions say FINGER TIGHT.
Tool marks on steel lock rings, stripped out interrupted threads in the press look like it was cross-threaded...
If a mechanic left marks like that on my car I'd find a different tech.
Take the 1/2 price and be happy.

david_r
March 9, 2013, 09:22 PM
Legion,
Go look at the picture and then read the op claims that the instructions say to use a wrench. That IS an RCBS die. He did claim the instructions said to use a wrench. Are you disputing either of those facts? If not, I am completely on topic.

His picture also shows that he repeatedly used some tool with sharp teeth to tighten or loosen the RCBS die with enough forceto scar the lock ring. His picture also shows that he applied enough force to upset the steel of the locating pin. All facts.

So you honestly believe that an RCBS or XYZ brand would have taken that abuse or is it that you believe any mfg should replace any broken piece within the warranty period regardless of the facts? Do you believe those pictures indicate "normal use?" The Lee warranty is explicitly clear on normal use. It is fine for you to disagree with Lee's warranty but what I see is not something that anyone would consider normal use if he is being honesty. Which is fine but be honest and state you think Lee should offer a different warrant instead of coming in here and claiming they don't honor their warranty without presenting facts.

It is fine by me if you choose to pay twice the price for products to get what you find to be a comfortable warranty for you. But you are deluding yourself if you believe that you aren't paying a 100% price increase to insure your equipment and every lowest common denominator's equipment out there who also buys into it. For my money, I will self insure and I will read the warranty before I opine on it.

floydster
March 10, 2013, 03:10 PM
Who is this guy " Legion", that is always making trouble??

Smokeyloads

Lost Sheep
March 10, 2013, 05:09 PM
Who is this guy " Legion", that is always making trouble??

Smokeyloads
I noticed Legion489 when he first joined THR. His first handful of posts derided Lee products and complained of his own persecution. He does not like Lee Precision for some reason. His posts show that he also likes to "poke the tiger in the eye" for sport. I have tried to encourage him to do it more reasonably and for a while he softened his rhetoric (one of his favorite things is to suggest Lee uses "pot metal" for its presses, which he gave up for a time).

Yet, he is intelligent, demonstrates good grammar and spelling and generally is not as rabid as some I have read. However, he is consistently irritating.

I still have hope he may become a human being (reference to Chief Dan George's line in "Little Big Man"). If you have seen the movie, it is particularly on point with Legion489. Let us endeavor to persevere (another quote from the movie), and help him.

Lost Sheep

kingmt
March 10, 2013, 07:59 PM
I'm tired of trying to help him. That Load Master he says it's junk has been striped to nothing & he still wants a new price out of it. I was going to buy it & set it up for a friend of it was reasonable but he must think more of it then he acts.

Art Eatman
March 16, 2013, 12:00 PM
More than enough...

If you enjoyed reading about "lee breechlock press problem, warranty?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!