Is there such thing as a handgun that can fire shotgun shells?


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vsse
March 12, 2004, 08:18 PM
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Double Naught Spy
March 12, 2004, 08:22 PM
I have seen revolvers that fire .410 shells and have fired .410s from a Bond Arms derringer. It isn't pleasant.

Hkmp5sd
March 12, 2004, 08:31 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=792307

QuarterBoreGunner
March 12, 2004, 08:37 PM
Ah... and there was the not missed, very weird Thunder 5 revolver that fired .410 and .45LC shells. Can't seem to locate a picture right now, but it looked like a big flare gun. Sort of.

edit- found one:
http://pix.gunbroker.com/pixhost/2003-01-26/rball1_1043862727_T5nib.jpg

esheato
March 12, 2004, 08:53 PM
Don't forget about the T/C Contender in .45 LC/.410. Single shot, but it is a handgun.

Ed

WonderNine
March 12, 2004, 09:38 PM
QuarterBoreGunner, that looks like what that weird revolver was that the dude had in Three Kings.

QuarterBoreGunner
March 12, 2004, 10:40 PM
I do believe you are correct.

Mr. Mysterious
March 12, 2004, 11:17 PM
Just curious, how do these skirt the minimum barrel length for shotguns?

alwims
March 12, 2004, 11:54 PM
Mr. Mysterious, The .410 is measured by caliber and not by gauge so technically it's not a 'shotgun'. That's the simple answer.

MrAcheson
March 13, 2004, 12:19 AM
Hehe there is always the LeMat, but that doesn't shoot shells persay...

tiberius
March 13, 2004, 01:04 AM
Just curious, how do these skirt the minimum barrel length for shotguns? The barrel is rifled. Smooth bores must be > 18", even T/C's. This ruins the shot pattern, but makes them legal, without licensing that is. :(

c_yeager
March 13, 2004, 01:22 AM
Mr. Mysterious, The .410 is measured by caliber and not by gauge so technically it's not a 'shotgun'. That's the simple answer.

Do not fall for this. The ATF definition of a shotgun has NOTHING to do with how manufacturers decide to measure their ammo. As has been said the pistols in question skirt the rules because they have a rifled barrel. Having a SMOOTH BARREL is one of the ATF definitions for an shotgun based AOW.

Triad
March 13, 2004, 01:23 AM
There's this. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=8743&highlight=UDAR)

Mr. Mysterious
March 13, 2004, 01:38 AM
So I could take a rifled slug barrel cut it down to below 18" and make a Bonnie and Clyde shotgun and it would be legal because it is rifled? That just kind of seems like a gaping leap hole.

How much would a rifled barrel mess up the pattern? I thought that short barrels kinda ruined the pattern to begin with...

tiberius
March 13, 2004, 01:40 AM
You would have to use that cut down slug barrel on a receiver that is registered with the BATF as a handgun and NOT a long gun or else you are creating an SBR / SBSG.

They gots lotsa tricks :barf:

cordex
March 13, 2004, 01:41 AM
Crazy laws, y'know?

Might run into problems manufacturing a pistol over .50 caliber too ...

Slimjim
March 13, 2004, 01:42 AM
i wouldnt mind having a thunder5, just for novelty value.

tiberius
March 13, 2004, 01:43 AM
Cordex,

That is sort of correct, BUT the rifleing is an ATF requirement for ALL handguns, so that is what really makes it legal. Also it is a .45 Colt with a VERY long chamber :)

edited to add:
Dude - Did you change your post on me or am I going nuts :confused:

cordex
March 13, 2004, 01:55 AM
Sorry, Tiberius, I did change it when I remembered just what you posted. Didn't realize anyone had started to respond to it.

(for others: my post said something like "I thought .45/.410 pistols were legal because they are actually chambered for .45LC and 'just happen' to fire .410)

c_yeager
March 13, 2004, 04:04 AM
So I could take a rifled slug barrel cut it down to below 18" and make a Bonnie and Clyde shotgun and it would be legal because it is rifled? That just kind of seems like a gaping leap hole.

Nope, pistols dont have buttstocks. You would have to take a rifled slug barrel, put it on a reciever that is "registered" as a pistol, and NEVER attach anything but a pistol grip on it. Then your probably OK. Unless your using a SEMIAUTO shotgun. Then you have weight requirments and you'd have to take off the forearm as well.

Hkmp5sd
March 13, 2004, 10:21 AM
If you take a .410/.45LC caliber shoulder fired weapon with a rifled barrel and chop the barrel to 12 inches, does it become a short barreled rifle or short barreled shotgun? :)

Stand_Watie
March 13, 2004, 10:57 AM
Will that thing take 3 inch shells? How does the .410 stack up in terms of stopping power compared to the 45 LC?

Feanaro
March 13, 2004, 11:04 AM
Hkmp5sd, since it isn't a smooth-bore, it is a SBR.

tiberius
March 13, 2004, 11:13 AM
Will that thing take 3 inch shells? How does the .410 stack up in terms of stopping power compared to the 45 LC?
Well the slugs are generally rated at 1/5 oz.(~90 gr) ay 1800 FPS from a real SG. I've seen reports that from a derringer they measure ~1000fps. That puts it in .32 ACP territory.

The 000 would probably be the "best" for close range work, 3 .36 cal balls at low speed and low penetration though. It is listed at 1200 - 1300 FPS from a real SG, but I have no real idea for a pistol. Prob ~600 fps or so.

I'd stick with .45 Colt for personal defense.

cdbeaver
March 17, 2004, 05:52 PM
Back in the late 1950's I acquired a Stevens "Handi-Gun," a single-barrel, tip-up .410 shot pistol with a hammer.

The gun had about a nine-inch barrel, as I recall, a short "fore-end," and a hand grip with a sort of extension that jutted back over the hand. It was the most inaccurate gun of all time.

The gun was illegal even at that time and I got rid of it quickly. Traded it even-up for my S&W Chief's Special that I still have.

Stand_Watie
March 18, 2004, 10:14 AM
SG. I've seen reports that from a derringer they measure ~1000fps. That puts it in .32 ACP territory.

The 000 would probably be the "best" for close range work, 3 .36 cal balls at low speed and low penetration though. It is listed at 1200 - 1300 FPS from a real SG, but I have no real idea for a pistol. Prob ~600 fps or so.

So then would one blast of 000 be the equivalent of three .36 calibre shots fired at .32 acp velocity? You say the slug is 1/5th ounce, how does that compare in overall mass to pistol rounds? I realize the calber would be .41, but is there more lead going into the hole it creates than a .41 caliber pistol slug? Would the additional lead make any difference?

I realize that appearances can be deceiving, but just from looking at the outside of a 3 inch .410 cartridge it looks like it holds a lot more powder than any pistol cartridge I'm familiar with.

tiberius
March 18, 2004, 12:44 PM
As I said in the above post, 1/5 0z. is ~90 grains (87.5 exactly) so travelling at ~1000fps, I should have equated it to .380 ACP, as 90 gr. is the standard loading for that round.

Mr. Kook
March 20, 2004, 09:57 AM
Magnum Research makes the BFR (Big Fricking Revolver), which comes in .410/.45LC. Check it out here http://www.magnumresearch.com/BFR.asp.

They have downloadable videos of women handling and shooting these guns with various loads. I was rather surprised no one ended up with the rear sight imbedded in their forehead. It was rather impressive.

wardog
March 22, 2004, 12:53 AM
A buddy of mine had one of these.

http://www.amderringer.com/m1.html

deleteall
March 22, 2004, 01:40 AM
Seems like you could make a decent shot load with a S&W .500.


Wardog: "something's poking me"

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