Neighborhood Kid with AK is Wreaking Havoc!!


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Bainx
March 12, 2004, 07:58 PM
Just over a mile from my house, a 16 yr. old with an AK has shot and killed a deputy sherriff after having beat up his [the suspect's] mother early in the morning.

I can't believe that CNN and other majors, have blacked-out this story. This has been going on since early this morning. The kid has over 200 law enforcement people including BATF, SWAT teams, sherriffs, U.S. Marshalls totally baffled and held at bey. He has wounded at least three SWAT team members trying to get to him. There are several helicopters buzzing around and a number of other suspect vehicles chased down and pulled over during the day, according to what I am hearing on the scanner. There are police from at least three surrounding counties lending assistance in this matter.

One possible kicker....the 16 year old who is holed-up in a house, is the son of a Loudon County district attorney. They are trying to make a peacefull settlement to this. Stay tuned.

Prayers from the community are out to the wife of the killed deputy. She is to give birth at any minute today.

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Cosmoline
March 12, 2004, 08:04 PM
Actually I find it a good sign that they news hounds haven't started flying choppers overhead. It's far better for them to stay back until things have been resolved.

I do have to wonder--don't these LEO's have some long guns? They aren't trying to go up against an AK or AK semi clone with handguns are they?!?! I hope not, man I hope not. Short and one sided ain't in it.

FPrice
March 12, 2004, 08:16 PM
"http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20040312%2F1958512725.htm&sc=1110

Tenn. Sheriff's Deputy Killed in Shooting
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD

LENOIR CITY, Tenn. (AP) - A heavily armed teen shot and killed a deputy sheriff responding to a domestic violence call Friday, then held about 150 officers at bay while hunkered down inside his family's lakeside home, authorities said.

Officers were unable to approach the house because of heavy gunfire coming from the home. The 16-year-old had semiautomatic weapons with multiple 30-round magazines, said Knox County Sheriff Tim Hutchison.



``At this point, the only response we see out of him is when he starts shooting at officers he sees,'' said Hutchison, who said officers plan to try to wait the teen out of the house. ``And we hope he will come to some realization that he needs to come out and he needs to surrender.''

The suspect first attacked his mother during a morning fight, then fired on officers who were called to the house.

Deputy Jason Scott, a three-year veteran of the sheriff's department, was killed after getting hit four times by bullets. Four other officers received minor injuries from debris as the teenager shot at them when they hid behind a woodpile. The officers have been treated and are OK, police said.

``He has about as much inside the house as we do outside,'' Hutchison said.

Authorities said the boy, who has not been named, is still alive. A SWAT team once made it into the garage before turning back.

``The only thing we've got out of the house is gunfire,'' said Knox County Chief Deputy Dwight VanDeVate. ``We are still hopeful we get some positive outcome, but we have had absolutely no success whatsoever in establishing contact with the suspect.''

The shooting occurred about 8:30 a.m. as two Loudon County deputies answered a domestic call at the home. The sheriff's office had received a call from the boy's mother at a neighbor's house saying that she and her son had fought, Guider said.

``Deputies answered the call not knowing there were any weapons in the house. Officer Scott was the first one to arrive and was shot as he stepped out of the car,'' Hutchinson said.

The second officer pulled up, saw his colleague's body, retreated as shots were fired and called for backup. Officers from several counties and the Tennessee Highway Patrol were later called to the scene.

Robots sent into the house were rebuffed by obstacles set up inside the house. Officers also shot tear gas inside but there was no response. The teen was not responding to calls or to efforts to reach him through a PA system.

Officers were able to remove the body of the slain officer, whose wife is expecting their first child. Through tears, Guider described Scott as ``a wonderful young man, very lively, very friendly, very outgoing.''

MagKnightX
March 12, 2004, 08:43 PM
I dunno. I don't mean to be callous, if that's the right word, but this reeks of that DiFi/Brady plot to get the AWB extended that we've all been worrying about.

It's not at all hard to bribe a 16-year-old into doing something tremendously stupid.

MicroBalrog
March 12, 2004, 08:46 PM
It's not at all hard to bribe a 16-year-old into doing something tremendously stupid

Like beating up his own mother ?

Officers also shot tear gas inside but there was no response.

Zippo lighter, anyone?

MagKnightX
March 12, 2004, 08:54 PM
In many of my friends, I've noticed a severe animosity towards their parents. Some, I would not be surprised if they came to blows. Some, it might just require a C-note or two.

Bainx: Do you mean Loudon County, VA? Or is there one in TN?

Politically Incorrect
March 12, 2004, 08:56 PM
Zippo lighter, anyone?

They only do that when there is a group of children with assault style weapons.

Wildalaska
March 12, 2004, 09:13 PM
I dunno. I don't mean to be callous, if that's the right word, but this reeks of that DiFi/Brady plot to get the AWB extended that we've all been worrying about.

Tinfoil hat time

WildgimmeabreakAlaska

Langenator
March 12, 2004, 09:14 PM
This kid has apparently read up some on police/SWAT tactics. Obstacles set up inside the house to stop robots? That shows planning. Or maybe I'm giving him too much credit and those obstacles are to slow down any SWAT guys entering, and just happen to have the bonus effect of stopping the robots.

So, he's got at least one AK-clone semi-auto rifle (excuse me, but where does a 16 year old get such things?), lots of ammo (ditto), and he's got obstacles inside the house, and just probably a gas mask, too. Either the kid's been planning, or he's improvising with a lot of things in his favor.


This is like the Antis' wet dream-DiFi's AWB, Kennedy's AP ammo ban, and Boxer's trigger lock bill all in one.

WonderNine
March 12, 2004, 09:18 PM
I bet Fox News picks this up before CNN does if either do at all.

MicroBalrog
March 12, 2004, 09:28 PM
Hey, I was pretty knowledgeable about such things when I was his age. Means nothing.

P95Carry
March 12, 2004, 09:29 PM
My heart sinks to one level lower ....... chances are this punk will die .. just a matter of time because it does not sound like he is taking prisoners.

And after it all ... the mess and tragic loss ... yeah, another field day for anti's. Give them one inch even and they'll make a yard out of it ... and assault will, I guarantee be headline.:(

Marko Kloos
March 12, 2004, 09:39 PM
This piece of dirt killed a Loudon County Sheriff's Deputy in cold blood as the deputy was stepping out of his car to answer a Domestic Violence call.

Every SWAT team in this area code is congregating in front of that house at the moment. Knoxville PD SWAT, Maryville PD SWAT, Knox County and Loudon County SWAT, THP SWAT, and every law enforcement agency outside of TN Wildlife Resource Agency are on the scene.

These are not federal kitten-stompers, the victim is a county deputy who is about to become a father post-humously.

The subject hit his mother over the head with a pipe because she wouldn't let him take his car to school. The mother fled to the neighbor's house, where she placed a call to 911. The deputy was shot four times as he exited his car.

What is this world coming to?

:(

MicroBalrog
March 12, 2004, 09:47 PM
These are not federal kitten-stompers, the victim is a county deputy who is about to become a father post-humously.

And why can't they treat a murderer the same way they do someone who cuts a shotgun below limited length?

I mean, sure this kid is still technically a child, but still...

Bainx
March 12, 2004, 09:48 PM
MagKnightX, it is Loudon County, Tennessee.

Yes, Marko Kloos this kid has to be some kind of dirt-bag to beat up his own mother. It was revealed that she stopped him from driving his car because of the huge drunk he pulled the night before. He evidently was in too poor a shape to drive to school.

Sad.

Ala Dan
March 12, 2004, 09:49 PM
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but someone needs
to step up and kill this kid; before he kills again! :(

Sounds like it could be a druggie, hopped up on PCP. I
once encountered one of these during my days as a LEO;
and after several strikes from an ASP, it still took six of
us to wrestle this thug down. "Freeze+P" had NO effect
on this idiot! :uhoh: ;)

I express my deepest sympathy and condolences to the
family of the slain deputy, and his unborn child. May GOD
speed to their rescue!

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

Langenator
March 12, 2004, 09:50 PM
The local NBC affiliate has it up. http://www.wbir.com/News/news.asp?ID=17418

Kid is now ID'd as Michael Harvey, son of county ADA Frank Harvey. Apparently attacked his mother with a pipe, then opened fire on the Sherriff's deputy who responded to the domestic disturbance call when the deputy stepped out of his vehicle.

The wife of the slain deputy has apparently gone into labor.

If I was on one of the long rifles in the SWAT team, I'd have a hard time NOT shooting the little prick.

whofan
March 12, 2004, 09:51 PM
Here we go again!

Now how many copycats will we see?

Mark Tyson
March 12, 2004, 09:55 PM
I think we'll only see copycats if it's widely publicized.

WonderNine
March 12, 2004, 09:57 PM
Suspect Michael Harvey

http://www.wbir.com/images/photos/news/031204_harvey.jpg

However according to Knox County Sheriff, Tim Hutchison, the suspect is believed to have "as much (weaponry and ammunition) inside the house as we have outside," including automatic rifles and scopes.

Oh yea, I have a feeling this one is gonna end badly....:(

TheBluesMan
March 12, 2004, 09:58 PM
WildAlaska said, "Tinfoil hat time."

Not necessarily. I don't believe most conspiriacy theories either, but you can't deny that The Brady Center To Prevent Gun Violence United With The Million Mom March (TBCTPGVUWTMMM for short) isn't going to use incidents like this against us.

It is this kid's fault that he killed that deputy. He should bear the burden of punishment.
It is an adult's fault that he got the gun and ammo. He or she should bear the burden of punishment.
It is his mother's and/or father's fault that they raised a child that would do this atrocious act. They should bear the burden of punishment.

But you have to *know* that TBCTPGVUWTMMM will decide that it is your fault for selling guns to law-abiding people in Alaska, and that it is my fault for owning a gun just like the one he used and we will be the ones to bear the burden of punishment.

WonderNine
March 12, 2004, 10:01 PM
It is an adult's fault that he got the gun and ammo.

No.

P95Carry
March 12, 2004, 10:08 PM
This will only end badly, if the kid lives and others get hurt or killed.

The punk should be taken out ..... sorry but ... he is owed no favors and in my book ... culpability and right and wrong start way before age 16.

The aftermath is what worries me as much as anything .. such mileage to be gained.

Jim March
March 12, 2004, 10:13 PM
Does this smell like "roid rage" to anybody else?

WonderNine
March 12, 2004, 10:14 PM
Hmm, never though of that. Could be. Also there are alot of drugs based on steroids including over the counter stuff like asthma medications....

P95Carry
March 12, 2004, 10:21 PM
Nothing - but nothing ... can condone this. No excuses, no ''reasons'' .... it is indefensible. Harsh tho that may sound. I hope there will be an ''outcome'' very soon, with no more bodies, except his.

MicroBalrog
March 12, 2004, 10:23 PM
I hope there will be an ''outcome'' very soon, with no more bodies, except his.

Actually, I don't care for him much. If he's alive - fine. If he's dead, good. Just make sure he kills no longer.

LAR-15
March 12, 2004, 10:30 PM
Great the VPC gets another stat.



At least this is in pro-gun East TN.

MicroBalrog
March 12, 2004, 10:35 PM
At least this is in pro-gun East TN.

And how will the antis spin that?

Jim March
March 12, 2004, 10:44 PM
The only "good news" here is that this was an assistant DA. Even here in California, those guys can score AWs if they want (most have a sort of "peace officer" status).

So taking guns away from "peons" wouldn't have any effect on this case.

I'm not saying steroid abuse would be an EXCUSE in a case like this, far from it. But it does seem like there's a possible link. We should also find out if he's coming down off of Ritalin or whatever. Or it's plain ol' beer/booze involved, or he's just a nutcase even without funky chemistry.

In any case...he's gonna surrender or die. His choice and his karma.

Bruce H
March 12, 2004, 11:01 PM
Infrared and a .50 would be a nice place to start. He deserves absolutely no mercy. Throw dirt in his face three days hence and be done with it.

7.62FullMetalJacket
March 12, 2004, 11:22 PM
Still a stand-off? I find very little news about this.

7.62FullMetalJacket
March 12, 2004, 11:34 PM
Pendragon, can you paste a couple in here. I am not a member of that board. I barely have time for this one :(

cosmos7
March 12, 2004, 11:41 PM
thread starter's post from TW...

So I wake up today to my mom calling and dismiss it. My gf answers her phone and it's her mom calling to tell her about a stand off with police that's in the next town over and where she lives close to. We turn on the news and watch a tad and I call my mom back. Turns out she's freaking out because her sister's husband is on the force and she hasn't heard from him(small city with few officers). To make a long story short, the kid hits his mom over the head for not letting him take the car to school, cops come, he shoots him as he arrives and pins down others trying to get to the cop for a hour. The cops finally get to him by using bulletproof vests to cover the windows of the car and a few get injured in the rescue. Finally my mom calls back and says it wsn't him, but another relative we have that I've never met who had gotten my step-uncle his job there. He was shot 3 times and died. :( His wife, whom I knew since I was a child, is expecting a baby at any time after trying for a long time now. My mom had talked to her mom(my mom's aunt) a few days ago and she had said everything was going great, she was just worried about him all the time being on the police force.

The kid is still holed up and was shooting at officers and SWAT whenever they got close and has not communicated at all with officers. Tear gas has not touched him. Apparently he's got an AK (or something resembling it) with multiple 30 round clips along with high powered rifles with scope. They haven't heard anything from him at all in a couple hours though and I suspect he has commited suicide. He was on the roof at one point firing at cops and they didn't take him out. The twist to the story and the reason they aren't shooting at the kid is because he is the son of that county's Assistant District Attorney. Otherwise he would be toast. Prayers out to the family of the slain officer and his unborn child. :( :( :(

Link: http://www.wbir.com
Videos: http://www.wbir.com/webclix/default.asp?Clip=031204_shooting1&Title=SPECIAL+REPORT%3A+HEAVILY+ARMED+TEEN+SUSPECT+IN+COP+MURDER+REFUSING+TO+SURRENDER&Sponsor=N

Cliffs:
-16 year old in domestic with mother shoots and kills arriving officer who turns out to be related to me.
-Keeps any cops trying to get to the house pinned down with Automatic weapons and rifles.
-Situation pending with kid holed up and not communicating and not responding to multiple barrages of tear gas.
-Wife of slain officer expecting kid any day.
-Please pray for the wife, unborn child, and family of officer.

Pendragon
March 12, 2004, 11:41 PM
sorry - there are not a lot of posts that could be copied over here :)

I deleted the link, but I will post the first post:


So I wake up today to my mom calling and dismiss it. My gf answers her phone and it's her mom calling to tell her about a stand off with police that's in the next town over and where she lives close to. We turn on the news and watch a tad and I call my mom back. Turns out she's freaking out because her sister's husband is on the force and she hasn't heard from him(small city with few officers). To make a long story short, the kid hits his mom over the head for not letting him take the car to school, cops come, he shoots him as he arrives and pins down others trying to get to the cop for a hour. The cops finally get to him by using bulletproof vests to cover the windows of the car and a few get injured in the rescue. Finally my mom calls back and says it wsn't him, but another relative we have that I've never met who had gotten my step-uncle his job there. He was shot 3 times and died. :( His wife, whom I knew since I was a child, is expecting a baby at any time after trying for a long time now. My mom had talked to her mom(my mom's aunt) a few days ago and she had said everything was going great, she was just worried about him all the time being on the police force.

The kid is still holed up and was shooting at officers and SWAT whenever they got close and has not communicated at all with officers. Tear gas has not touched him. Apparently he's got an AK (or something resembling it) with multiple 30 round clips along with high powered rifles with scope. They haven't heard anything from him at all in a couple hours though and I suspect he has commited suicide. He was on the roof at one point firing at cops and they didn't take him out. The twist to the story and the reason they aren't shooting at the kid is because he is the son of that county's Assistant District Attorney. Otherwise he would be toast. Prayers out to the family of the slain officer and his unborn child. :( :( :(

Link: http://www.wbir.com
Videos: http://www.wbir.com/webclix/default...ENDER&Sponsor=N

Cliffs:
-16 year old in domestic with mother shoots and kills arriving officer who turns out to be related to me.
-Keeps any cops trying to get to the house pinned down with Automatic weapons and rifles.
-Situation pending with kid holed up and not communicating and not responding to multiple barrages of tear gas.
-Wife of slain officer expecting kid any day.
-Please pray for the wife, unborn child, and family of officer.


Michigan > OSU

Watchman
March 12, 2004, 11:47 PM
He quit being a "kid" when he grabbed an AK and killed an officer...

Now he is just another muderer...

When someone is holding the wrong end of a gun on you age becomes irrevelant...

Wildalaska
March 13, 2004, 12:10 AM
But you have to *know* that TBCTPGVUWTMMM will decide that it is your fault for selling guns to law-abiding people in Alaska, and that it is my fault for owning a gun just like the one he used and we will be the ones to bear the burden of punishment.

Agreed...I just hate to see the RKBA movement (who has to bear the burden of what this little criminal s**t does) be cheapened by wacko conspiracy theories...

WildandbecauseofadealiamworkingoniftheawbgetsrenewediwillbebummedoutAlaska

c_yeager
March 13, 2004, 12:17 AM
Agreed...I just hate to see the RKBA movement (who has to bear the burden of what this little criminal s**t does) be cheapened by wacko conspiracy theories...

Agreed. Saying this is some kind of "staged" event to renew the AWB is silly. If there is a 16 year old out there that can be BRIBED to beat his mother with a pipe and kill a deputy then he is ALREADY a friggin time bomb. Besides it's giving the anti's WAY too much credit.

Blain
March 13, 2004, 12:29 AM
I don't get it.....if he is the only one in the house, why don't they just light up the house with fmj bullets? They should go right through the house and the victum.

Most houses are wood, or alluminum, or some other flimsy material. Even if it was brick, fmj bullets would go through it! Why don't they just light this kid and his house up with gun fire?

I could never imagine that one kid holed up could keep so many officers at bay! I mean he can only face one side of the house at once! Why don't they surround him and fire at him from all sides? The bullets WILL go through the house! And I bet he is firing out a window too, just light up the window with multiple gun fire! You outgun the kid 40-1, what the hell?

cordex
March 13, 2004, 12:52 AM
Gorram kid. Here's hopin' that a police sharpshooter does a good job and safely dispatches this murderer so that we don't lose any more good guys.

May the fallen Deputy's wife and child have better times.

Carlos
March 13, 2004, 01:16 AM
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but someone needs
to step up and kill this kid; before he kills again!

with extreme prejudice!!!!

I heard about this story earlier at another gunboard. Why am I not seeing it on the news channels? :rolleyes:

mantispid
March 13, 2004, 01:50 AM
Wait.. did the kid beat up his own mother, or did the deputy beat up the kid's mother?

If the deputy beat up the kid's mother and the kid was trying to protect her, I can't blame him for his actions.

However, if it's the kid who beat up his own mother and then went Rambo, then he's a bad egg that needs to be scrambled fast.

PATH
March 13, 2004, 02:01 AM
They'll try to wear him down. Secure the perimeter and start working on him. I can't see putting any other lives on the line for this one. If he won't quit then someone will have to authorize a shot to stop him. You hate to see a young man throw his life away but he has made piss poor choices. There can be no chance of another officer getting himself injured.

Blain
March 13, 2004, 02:14 AM
I don't get it, just where is this kid? Is he up in a window of a second story house? If so, why did the swat team turn back from the garage? It's not like the kid can cover the threats on the street, AND the threats inside his house at the same time. Esp if he is on a whole nother floor.

He resisted tear gas too? Something just doesn't add up with this picture.

I know stories of SWAT/police efforts easily taking care of situations similar to this where there are multiple armed tangos AND hostages to boot.

Again, why don't they just shoot through the house? It's not like it's a stone walled castle, their bullets will easily go through it and hit the suspect.

What is the real story here?

HBK
March 13, 2004, 03:00 AM
Just kill the little piece of dirt and be done with it. I hope they start a memorial fund for the deputy's widow... :(

WonderNine
March 13, 2004, 03:01 AM
Blain, I agree. I know it's early, but something is rotten in Denmark, although I can't put my finger on it.

Ala Dan
March 13, 2004, 03:27 AM
Update requested please? Here in Alabama we
have NO news on this event; so please keep us
posted! Thanks in advance~

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

NightWolfe
March 13, 2004, 03:46 AM
yea .. kinda wondering how this turned out .. or if it's even over ..

and to those wondering why they didn't just kill the kid .. he's the Assistant District Attorneys Son .. so he's getting special treatment .. yea it's not right .. but I'm sure thats why ..

KaceCoyote
March 13, 2004, 03:53 AM
I dunno, it would seem as though this little punk put some thought into this. He's got a ton've ammo, multible longrifles. Not to mention the rush to grab NBC gear after 9/11. Is it really so far fetched that this punk could have a gas mask? He's probably barricaded somewhere in the house. You cant just spray the house with AP stuff. Think've all the houses around. I think it'll go further if we just deprive the idiot of sleep and keep rolling in the teargas and keep the power, and the water off. Eventually, we force him into the open and we can pop him at our leisure. Make the prey come to you.

gunsmith
March 13, 2004, 05:48 AM
stupid little punk dirtbag

Langenator
March 13, 2004, 05:51 AM
Looking at the map posted on one of the local TV stations, it looks like the house is at the end of a road near a body of water. Guess ADA's make decent $ in East TN. And in my experience, a lot of houses in the South are made of brick, so you wouldn't be able to shoot through it.

I would have to say that the reason they're just waiting is that his dad is the ADA. Plus, there's no hostages involved. Otherwise they'd probably have been much more aggressive.

mattx109
March 13, 2004, 06:19 AM
No news about this in my neck of the woods.

Any changes?

Ky Larry
March 13, 2004, 07:28 AM
Cost of 50 years of prison for punk- $50,000 a year for 50 years= $2,500,000.

Cost of a .308 FMJ round= $0.15.

Do the math.

Ky Larry
March 13, 2004, 07:34 AM
CNN is now reporting one LEO killed and 4 wounded in this standoff.

Langenator
March 13, 2004, 08:03 AM
Checked this story while getting ready to go to work this morning. Got in the car, and what happened to be queued up on the CD player? Right to this very spot...

"It's not his fault that he can't behave,
Society's made him go astray.
Perhaps if we're nice he'll go away.

Only a lad...you really can't blame him.
Only a lad...society made him.
He's out responsibility...

Hey there Johnny, you really don't fool me.
You get away with murder and you think it's funny.
You don't give a damn if you live or if you die.
Well hey there Johnny boy...I HOPE YOU FRY!!"

-"Only a Lad" by Oingo Boingo

Mark Tyson
March 13, 2004, 08:06 AM
Is the gun he's using the property of his parents?

Tamara
March 13, 2004, 08:09 AM
Anybody hear if he did the right thing during the night and saved the taxpayers some money?

TCD
March 13, 2004, 08:18 AM
Well, ammo for the anti crowds



Nevermind the kid was already screwed up enough to abuse his mom, and then premeditate a shooutout with the cops.


But I'm sure his AK/SKS will be blaimed for the rampage. Not our society which promotes violence, or poor parenting etc.

Tamara
March 13, 2004, 08:24 AM
I wish they'd give me the bullhorn.

"Son, we know you're in there, and we know you don't want to come out. Well, we don't particularly want to go in, either, so it looks like the both of us are in for a pretty long wait. Now, son, you know the only way you're gettin' out of there is in handcuffs or a body bag, and if you leave in handcuffs, you'll be spending the rest of your life in the Gray Bar Hotel. If your daddy can keep you off death row, that is. Son, you've also got a loaded gun in there, which brings us to option number two. How about suckin' it up and doin' the right thing, so the rest of us can go home, huh?"

Whaddaya think? I'd make a swell hostage negotiator, wouldn't I? :)

spartacus2002
March 13, 2004, 08:39 AM
I've got an anti-gun socialist bro-in-law (who is otherwise a great guy) living in Sweden who remarked to me once about how awful it is when all these kids go nuts with guns and killkillkill, we need to get rid of guns and stop this from happening again.

I told him that these events are more remarkable not because they happen, but because they happen so infrequently given the number of guns, teenagers, and teenagers with access to guns. They happen very infrequently, but because the media hypes it up so much and keeps the story going, you'd think it was a national nightmare.

That made him stop and think. 10-20 million teens? 80 million guns? 2-3 events a year that make the news? I'm just grabbing some numbers, but it's about as statistically significant as having a heart attack, being struck by lightning, winning the lottery, and being attacked by terrorists--all at the same time.

Leatherneck
March 13, 2004, 08:49 AM
*laughs nervously*
That's Tam's version of "Tough Love." Works for me. r:scrutiny:

TC
TFL Survivor

Bainx
March 13, 2004, 09:02 AM
Watching an update on local TV news now [8:55am Sat.].
The standoff continues and no doubt, he is getting special treatment because of who he is.
And, wouldn't you know it....they interviewed a minister/youth pastor type who stated something to the effect "This young man has undergone some type mental distrubance and does not know what he is doing"

Oh brother! Here we go.
You gotta wonder how much more embarrasment the law agencies will take before they take proper action.


To mantispid: yes, the kid beat his mother and she fled.

Bruce H
March 13, 2004, 09:03 AM
Tamara had the right idea for yesterday. Today it should be " We're tired, hungry, more than a little upset so on the count of three fire a law through every window".

Feanaro
March 13, 2004, 09:14 AM
I am with the prevailing opinion, a .308 in the head will save us a lot of time and money. I have to wonder where the kid got his weapons and ammo though? His parent's weapons? Or did his parents buy them for him? Or did he obtain them illegally. It seems to me that he put at least a bit of fore-thought into this(Or perhaps I give him too much credit), perhaps even a week or more of planning. If so, did no one notice?

ksnecktieman
March 13, 2004, 09:32 AM
Where is Lon Horiuchi when we need him? Did the Feds sell the tanks they used to knock down the Branch Davidian compound in Waco? I think it is time for a grenade launcher to fire through a window. At least kill the power to the neighborhood, and go in with night vision?

It sounds to me like this kid is trying to commit a "blue suicide" and the police are refusing to help. Lethal force is justified. Is there no one there with the guts to order a bit of chlorine in the gene pool?

fix
March 13, 2004, 09:37 AM
What is the deal here? No media coverage. Standoff continues. :confused: I'm beginning to think conspiracy too. Conspiracy to prolong the standoff until the media finally catches on. I've just got very bad feeling about this. Something tells me that we will see a souped up AWB renewal pass the Senate in 2 weeks or less. :(

Mulliga
March 13, 2004, 10:02 AM
"Son, we know you're in there, and we know you don't want to come out. Well, we don't particularly want to go in, either, so it looks like the both of us are in for a pretty long wait. Now, son, you know the only way you're gettin' out of there is in handcuffs or a body bag, and if you leave in handcuffs, you'll be spending the rest of your life in the Gray Bar Hotel. If your daddy can keep you off death row, that is. Son, you've also got a loaded gun in there, which brings us to option number two. How about suckin' it up and doin' the right thing, so the rest of us can go home, huh?"

Fantastic response, Tamara. This should go into THR library :).

MicroBalrog
March 13, 2004, 10:12 AM
you'll be spending the rest of your life in the Gray Bar Hotel

Am I the only one disagreeing?

Litlman
March 13, 2004, 10:31 AM
We had a friend of the family " loose it" a couple years back when he held of the Scranton Pa police dept. off for at least 17 hours or more with a 22 pump with shot shell in it. The police Knew that he was a hunter and did not know exactly what weapons he had in the 2nd floor apt. he lived in. They riddled the place with bullets and tear gas to no effect on him. Luckly no body was injured except him when the police made a final assault on the apartment. They bean bagged him. Alot of the police knew him well and I still heard them saying "we have movement in the back bedroom" "Green light" "Bang!". I listened to it for a long time on the scanner, pretty intense. Apparently he stuck to cover and held up in a back bathroom with wet towels tucked up against the door and over his face. No mask. All lights out. He did his time got released and lives in the same apartment, after some major remodeling. If they could have taken him out even though he did not injur anyone they would have and should have , just because of the possibility of him killing someone. They will put this kid down if the opportunity presents . As it should be. Be good...

MicroBalrog
March 13, 2004, 10:36 AM
IMHO, if it can be done without endangering civilians, he should be caught alive and undergo medical treatment.

Glock Glockler
March 13, 2004, 10:46 AM
Micro,

What about endangering the cops, do their lives count? We should put them in harm's way so we can spend tremendous amounts of time and money trying to find out what's wrong withthis lowlife?

What do your people do with any Hamas guys that take out an IDF soldier, try to get him alive to a shrink?

MicroBalrog
March 13, 2004, 10:52 AM
What do your people do with any Hamas guys that take out an IDF soldier, try to get him alive to a shrink?

While not a combat soldier, generally our guys are under the instruction to avoid opening fire as much as possible.

We do not, and I repeat not execute prisoners. As a matter of fact, Israel does not have the death penalty at all, with the possible exception of Nazis - and we executed only one of those in the last 55 years.

We're more advanced at least in that regard.

TheBluesMan
March 13, 2004, 10:55 AM
TheBluesMan said: It is an adult's fault that he got the gun and ammo.

WonderNine replied: No.

The only way I can figure that it may not be an adult's fault is if the kid stole the gun. If it is his father's gun, his father shares the blame.

cordex
March 13, 2004, 10:55 AM
We do not, and I repeat not execute prisoners.
Um ... how exactly does this fit in with the situation we're discussing? I certainly don't want them to take this kid prisoner and execute him. Kill him to stop him from killing others, perhaps, but not shoot him after he's been handcuffed. At least, not until he's had a proper trial. ;)
As a matter of fact, Israel does not have the death penalty at all, with the possible exception of Nazis - and we executed only one of those in the last 55 years.

We're more advanced at least in that regard.
*laugh* "More advanced"! Because you don't remove true villans from your society?

That's rich, Micro! Boy's got a sense of humor!

GunWares
March 13, 2004, 11:04 AM
IMHO, if it can be done without endangering civilians, he should be caught alive and undergo medical treatment.

I agree. One dose of .308 should cure his condition permanently. :rolleyes:

Blain
March 13, 2004, 11:13 AM
More advanced? Is that why a bunch of peaceful muslims were booted from your land because it was believed not to be "their promised land"?

OEF_VET
March 13, 2004, 11:28 AM
Tam, I love your response.


What is the deal here? No media coverage. Standoff continues. I'm beginning to think conspiracy too. Conspiracy to prolong the standoff until the media finally catches on. I've just got very bad feeling about this. Something tells me that we will see a souped up AWB renewal pass the Senate in 2 weeks or less.

fix, I doubt that in small-town, east-TN you'll find too many cops who are so rabidly anti-gun that they'd prolong a situation such as this, just to gain national media attention with the extended aim of banning 'assault weapons'. Especially when it's their hind-end on the line everytime this kid pokes a barrel out a window. Maybe if Chief Moose were in charge, but not any TN-born good-'ole-boy.

Frank

Buckskinner
March 13, 2004, 11:35 AM
The punch to the gut is the new baby. Being a new father myself, I can't express the fathomless sadness I have for the mother and child. That said, is it appropriate to contribute money to her or her child? As a group? As an RKBA group?

On second thought does it appear we're trying to appease our conscious with a contribution? That we accept even a modicum of responsibility as gun owners?

Deep thoughts.

Where is the father? Were they his firearms? If not, whose?

Baba Louie
March 13, 2004, 12:00 PM
Sounds like a youngster what needed several whoopings as a yout and probably didn't get nary but got pacification and comfort instead.
A night of serious Drinking, Mama says no to drivin' car to school (I'm sure he purchased said car from money he earned working), he bonks her over the head cause he's so socially agreeable to authority telling him no and all... and yeah, Daddy probably has several high powered sniper assault rifles, and now he's killed a young officer and... it's really been a rough day or two for him.
Its the video games... and... and... and rage music. The world's pickin on him.
He's gotta get some sleep sometime.

Prayers for the officer's family.

MicroBalrog
March 13, 2004, 12:30 PM
Is that why a bunch of peaceful muslims were booted from your land because it was believed not to be "their promised land"?

What's your address? I need to get a history book or two your way.:D

oldfart
March 13, 2004, 12:41 PM
"What's your address? I need to get a history book or two your way.
A history book might be nice, depending on who wrote it, of course.

Carlos
March 13, 2004, 12:52 PM
Man, not a peep on the news.

This little monster most likely offed himself yesterday. It's been too long, unless he snuck in a little sleep, or is on meth.

Sad story.

Buckskinner
March 13, 2004, 01:05 PM
http://www.knoxnews.com/

Bainx
March 13, 2004, 03:16 PM
Local news now [3:00pm] reports that the kid was found dead at about 12:45pm today in a bedroom. Self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
The SWAT team entered at 12:30pm and began clearing the house and found him.
Of course, the news reporter also added that they will investigate on what types of weapons he was using.

riverdog
March 13, 2004, 03:44 PM
Seems he took Tam's advice. Now wait for the other shoe...

Bigjake
March 13, 2004, 03:52 PM
I cant even put into words how sad i am for his widow and child. Sucks he got the opertunity to off himself.i was sincerely hoping his death would be as long and painful as possible, possibly a sucking chest wound or a nice gut shot...

Ala Dan
March 13, 2004, 04:58 PM
Well folks I'm glad its over! I feel sorry for all concerned
but this lads random acts of violence couldn't continue.
Many thanks to the various city, county, and state
agency's that assisted on this detail. Too bad that
the young Deputy Sheriff had to lose his life; lets
hope that his family can find some comfort in knowing
that he was at his best "Protecting and Serving" his
community.

Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

RED-DOG 40
March 13, 2004, 05:56 PM
I want to be on Tamaras team when the SHTF , like the logic :D My heart goes out to the deputies family...

tc300mag1
March 13, 2004, 06:37 PM
I think Tam need to be flown to all shoot outs like this to negoiate with the people

BryanP
March 13, 2004, 07:08 PM
I just found out about it - I don't watch much TV and I had to work today. I don't see any "news blackout" though. I turned on the news and 8 minutes in to the local Nashville news (Channel 4) they summed it up nicely. No anti-gun sentiment I could detect in the story either. Just the basic facts.

P95Carry
March 13, 2004, 07:27 PM
No anti-gun sentiment I could detect in the story either. Just the basic facts. Much heartened to hear that Bryan .. tho I wonder what spin ''less local'' stations - and newspapers, might put on it ... guess we may have to see.

HBK
March 13, 2004, 07:29 PM
Tamara is a wise woman.

capt. Nemo
March 13, 2004, 08:00 PM
Micro...whatever,

What sort of treatment would you suggest for this vermin? Would you have a blissninny headshrinker analyze him for a couple of years and pronounce him "rehabilitated"? How would you like to live down the street from the guy? If this animal would do these things to his own mother and a law-enforcement officer who was coming to his mothers aid, he's not sick...he's EVIL. There is a difference. If these guys would just off themselves BEFORE they hurt or kill others, I'd say we should issue them large-caliber handguns expressly for that purpose.

Maybe if you guys know how to handle these twisted subhumans you should extend an invitation for them to come and share your utopia. Come to think of it, you can take ALL the blissninny, socialist, government-dependant sheeple and let'em breed with the animals like the kid in Tennessee. LET HUNTING SEASON BEGIN.

Just my twenty-five cents worth...

Buck

HunterGatherer
March 13, 2004, 08:28 PM
Where is Lon Horiuchi when we need him? He would have shot the kid's mom before she could make the phone call.

If we had someone besides that moron Tom Ridge in charge of Homeland Security, Tamara would be in charge of all hostage situations nationwide.

Well Microbalrog, it looks like the murdering little pussbag got the medical help you so fervently wished for. He gave himself emergency trepanning surgery with a very highspeed projectile.

hops
March 13, 2004, 08:36 PM
Good thing that there was a mass murder in Fresno PRK. Seems to me more interesting that a kid with a semi-AK47 who only managed to kill one Deputy Sherrif. I've not seen anything other Spain Terror and Freson on FOX today at least.

And yea, I'd like a bit more info on the kid and if he had the ritalin treatment.
One of Columbine kids had it or just came off of it.

edited: here is a recent update i just found. The last part is telling. Obviously a trouble teen. Perhaps Tamara's style of negotiation is not always valid. Sad all around. Jim March may have hit upon it at the start.

Heavily Armed Teen Kills Deputy, Self
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD
Associated Press Writer

LENOIR CITY, Tenn. - The teenage son of a prosecutor killed a sheriff's deputy and barricaded himself in his home before he was found dead inside Saturday with an apparently self-inflicted gunshot to the head, officials said.

Michael Harvey, 16, was found in an upstairs bedroom of his lakeside home, said Loudon County Sheriff Tim Guider. He said the teenager had been dead for up to 20 hours.

Harvey fired on SWAT team officers Friday afternoon from the home, where he had semiautomatic weapons with multiple 30-round magazines. No shots were fired after that, authorities said.

"As hard as we worked to make contact and as patient as we were, we were hoping for a different resolution," Guider said.

Harvey's father, Frank Harvey, is an assistant district attorney for Loudon County.

The confrontation started Friday morning when officers went to investigate a domestic violence complaint from the boy's mother, who had fled to a neighbor's house. She allegedly was attacked with a pipe when she refused to let the boy drive to school after drinking the night before.

The first officer to arrive, Deputy Jason Scott, was fatally shot as he stepped out of his car, Guider said. He was shot four times, and a second officer retreated under fire and called for backup.

"Deputies answered the call not knowing there were any weapons in the house," Guider said.

A SWAT team once made it into the garage before turning back, and robots sent into the house were blocked by obstacles. Four officers suffered minor injuries from debris when the teenager shot at them as they hid behind a woodpile.

Officers fired tear gas into the house but got no response, and the teen did not answer calls or efforts to contact him over loudspeakers. Some of Harvey's relatives went to the scene trying to coax him into coming out, a spokeswoman for the Loudon County sheriff's department said early Saturday.

The boy's mother was treated at a local hospital and released.

Scott, 24, was a three-year veteran of the department whose wife is expecting their first child. Through tears, Guider described him as "a wonderful young man, very lively, very friendly, very outgoing."

Ed Sullivan, Harvey's youth minister at United Church of Christ Church of the Savior in Knoxville, told The Knoxville News Sentinel that the teen slit his wrists last fall and spent some time in Peninsula Hospital, a mental health facility.

Still, Sullivan said he was shocked. "He's a quiet kid, a gentle kid," Sullivan said.

geekWithA.45
March 13, 2004, 09:09 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/03/13/deputy.killed.ap/index.html

He's been dead for 20 hours, of a self inflicted gunshot wound to the head.

7.62FullMetalJacket
March 13, 2004, 09:27 PM
Good Riddance :fire:

spartacus2002
March 13, 2004, 09:42 PM
Sounds like this kid had some issues. Doesn't make what he did OK, but I would be VERY interested in what (if any) medication he was on.

confed sailor
March 13, 2004, 10:01 PM
well after reading this whole thread it has really depressed me about my whole generation.

at least the sorry schmuck offed it and didnt kill anyone else, what a miserable waste

The_Antibubba
March 14, 2004, 03:26 AM
It's actually pretty simple. This is a small community where everyone seems to know everyone else. The sheriff's office seemed to be reluctant to kill a local kid they knew. Seems he's been treated for depression as an inpatient, which, with all the new drugs to treat with these days, is pretty telling.

I'm going to attach 2 of the news stories, BTW.

I know a lot will come out over time, but their community seems to be handling it maturely. To me, the biggest question is, assuming the kid did not steal all of them, what the H*** is someone undergoing extreme deep depression and psychiatric treatment doing with such easy access to these weapons? This wasn't a youthful offender with a long rap sheet. And one day he assaults his mom and lights up the neighborhood. :confused:

Yeah, the antis are going to use this one. But it's immature of us to curse the kid and say such things as, "Cure him with a .308", or talk about the amorality of the latest generation. These are views that feed into the views of the Schumers and the Feinsteins of this country-that the "gun nuts" see violence as the answer to everything, and that we must remove guns from private holding to protect people from themselves.
This is THR. Let's not load the weapons being aimed against us, okay?




PS

Okay-I'm not going to attach the stories. It can't figure out how. :o :o :banghead:

And, I can't figure out how to "unchoose" a file to attach, so I'm sending another one that won't offend anyone here.

Please notice I'm taking full responsibility for my ignorance, and am not blaming the computer, an inanimate object. :D

Jim March
March 14, 2004, 04:18 AM
Well ya, if he was an in-patient, if there's drugs involved they're more likely to be psychiatric meds versus steroids, although the latter is still possible. This doesn't smell like "recreational" drugs, unless he got ahold of something really weird.

Heck, I dunno.

<scratches head>

Folks, what bothers me here is that I have SEEN irrational violence in a family member caused by purely medical issues. At age 15, my kid brother came down with late-onset hydrocephalus, which basically means his brain fluid wasn't draining properly, building up in his skull and physically distorting his brain. I personally saw this on both a CAT and MRI scan...I may not have been trained in such, but when the center empty area of his brain was a big off-center empty hole versus the normal skinny channels, it don't take a degree...

They finally got the fluid pressure sorted out with plastic drain hardware and a pressure valve - the normal cure. But the hardware got infected and it took a buttload of revisions to sort it out. 11 surgeries in about 13 months period, 4 months in a coma, over 6 months in-patient physical rehab by the time it was all done.

Meanwhile he went violently nuts, maybe three months into this before he was too weak to be trouble. He attacked me, dad, mom, etc. Didn't go all the way to weapons or a standoff with cops but...it was headed there until they got the brain fluid pressure under control.

Then he was fine. I'd trust him any day of the week, today, armed or otherwise.

Can drugs (esp. "psychiatric") do the same thing? Hell yes. So...I'm not ready to go as gonzo as Tamara.

Sigh.

mattx109
March 14, 2004, 04:35 AM
"Deputies answered the call not knowing there were any weapons in the house," Guider said.

Maybe I'm overly anxious about how this incident will be used by the gun control crowd, but the above quote seems odd to me. As if this might've been avoided if the officer had had access to information concerning what weapons, if any, would be found on the property.

greyhound
March 14, 2004, 07:58 AM
As if this might've been avoided if the officer had had access to information concerning what weapons, if any, would be found on the property.

In this case, seeing as he was the son of a local official, couldn't they have contacted the father and found out, assuming they had made the connection?

Also, aside from the weapons, what was a kid with these problems doing out getting drunk on a school night? (I am asuming [again] that he wasn't in his bedroom chugging gin.)

stevelyn
March 14, 2004, 09:09 AM
As this might have been avoided if the officer had access to information concerning what weapons, if any, would be found on the property.

Uhmmm..........Any officer responding to a residence and a DV call in particular, should assume there are weapons available and make his approach accordingly.
In this situation it would appear the little miscreant planned a hasty ambush for any police response. There is no way to avoid it without a tactical response.
I suspect, given the identity of those involved, the police opted for a low profile response to avoid pi$$ing off someone who is their ally and the officer paid with his life.

standingbear
March 14, 2004, 10:15 AM
alcohol does what to the effects of other drugs?probably,the youth was still drunk or drinking when he attacked his mother...coupled with whatever antidepressants(or even other pills) he was taking...it creates a chemical imbalance in the brain leading to violant and irrational behavior unless it is properly checked.sounds like alot of issues were going on here.tradgic.

Tamara
March 14, 2004, 10:32 AM
"Deputies answered the call not knowing there were any weapons in the house," Guider said.

This is east Tennessee; of course there are weapons in the house. :scrutiny:

zahc
March 14, 2004, 12:18 PM
How would they ever know anyway? How could they ever possibly know what weapons were in a house?

7.62FullMetalJacket
March 14, 2004, 12:37 PM
Why, registration, of course. The media is stating that "if they only knew," then all would be well. IIRC aren't police supposed to approach every situation as if arms are present? Although, to the Deputy's credit, no one can reasonably expect an ambush with a rifle.

Problem is that registration is a canard even if it was legal. For example, businesses must report all hazardous materials to the Fire Department. I have seen the Fire Department roll to a location that had "registered" all the hazardous materials and DID NOT HAVE the information. So much for government efficiency :rolleyes:

Don Gwinn
March 14, 2004, 01:21 PM
That's a stretch. More likely the deputies were too casual in their approach to the situation, and there's some butt-covering going on. Or the chief knows that some people are going to be Monday-morning quarterbacks and say that the deputies should have done this or that differently, and there's butt-covering going on.

The statement is probably meant to imply that it wasn't the officers' fault that they were so disorganized at first or that one was killed, because they hadn't expected weapons. On the one hand, we all know they should have known that anyone could be armed, but on the other, at least one has paid a higher price than anyone has a right to demand.


I don't know. The conspiracy is always possible, but I need more convincing than the fact that this is convenient for my enemies. That's easily explained by Murphy's Law.

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