Took 2 trigger pulls to fire 1st handload attempt???


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wakmeister
March 10, 2013, 06:18 PM
well really dissapointed--while waiting for equipment I found a shop not to far away and went with the owners reccomendation on loading for my 380 acp S&W bodyguard and Bersa thunder 380--bougt Zapalky primers 4,4 sp boxer--used cast lead rn 118-20 grn, (by shop owner) and 2.0-2.1grn Bullseye powder--loaded only 28 rounds in the shop--went out today to get camera card (turkey) and decided to try a clip of what I had done---all 7 shots took a double pull of the trigger to discharge, feed was fine --never experienced a ftf on factory ammo, (about 200 rounds)--any insight would be appreciated--I dont have any more of the cast bullets to load and dont want to, looking for 95 grn bullets (100max), owner sold me Bullseye powder, hopefully It will be ok, anyway not opened and he would probably exchange if I should be using something else--have not found CCI sp primers inthe area--dont know what the problem is--really a complete novice and old to boot--thanks for any comments:banghead:

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AK47TIM
March 10, 2013, 06:20 PM
Sounds Like the primers are not seated completely to me.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

wgaynor
March 10, 2013, 06:22 PM
I think you're primers weren't seated all the way. The first attempt at firing, simply seated them where they should be. Then the second time firing them, all was good.

rondog
March 10, 2013, 06:24 PM
Primers probably weren't seated all the way. First strike was absorbed by the primer being driven to fully seated, second strike - the primer couldn't move so it fired properly.

Make sure there isn't dirt or carbon in the primer pocket when you put in new primers, and be sure to seat them all the way. A primer should be just below the rim, not flush with the rim and never higher than the rim.

Looks like we were all typing at the same time.

PO2Hammer
March 10, 2013, 06:35 PM
Likely it's a high primer.

PhotoBiker
March 10, 2013, 06:36 PM
What did you use to seat the primers?

Press or hand tool?

gamestalker
March 10, 2013, 06:37 PM
You need to seat your primers to -.004" below the case head. About 99% of all mis-fires in the reloading world occur because the primers were not seated deep enough, very evident when a second FP strike is successful. The initial FP strike just drives the primer deeper into the pocket, which cushions the impact.

Although there are other possible causes, OAL too long, which causes the bullet to rest on the lands. When the F.P. strikes the primer it drives the bullet into the lands, thus absorbing the FP impact.

Brass that is too short can be another cause because rimless cases head space on the mouth of the case. When brass is too short it doesn't allow for a deep enough FP strike.


GS

towerdog
March 10, 2013, 06:40 PM
you need to do a visual inspection of each round you load. measure your OAL and the primer needs to be seated properly. Your reloading manuals like the ABC of reloading and many other will give you a great guide to referr to.

ljnowell
March 10, 2013, 06:40 PM
Those are S&B primers, I have used them from time to time, and have a few bricks here now, they are good primers, no issues. If it went bang the second time, its a high primer(as has been posted several times above).

wakmeister
March 10, 2013, 06:43 PM
thanks for all the replies--I have 21 yet unfired--will head back to the shop tomorrow and try to seat properly--My Lee 4 stage turret press ships this week and the dies etc probably the week after, hope to find some bullets by then, get the right formulation for-90 - 95-100 grn loads using Bullseye?--you folks are a great resource and are to be commended--:)

wakmeister
March 10, 2013, 06:48 PM
Photo Biker I used a press to seat the primer, the press was on a stool and not very stable, loaded bullet on the down stroke and inserted primer and up stroke was wobbly--

david_r
March 10, 2013, 07:02 PM
If you only have 21 of these, just go fire them. I wouldn't recommend trying to seat primers further on a loaded round

orionengnr
March 10, 2013, 07:06 PM
Sentence.
Paragraph.
Punctuation.

Please.

beatledog7
March 10, 2013, 07:09 PM
I agree 100% with david_r. Please do not try to reseat primers on loaded rounds. Just shoot them.

wakmeister
March 10, 2013, 07:29 PM
david-r, orionegnr, beatledog7---thanks --will load the up into the bersa thunder its at least a da-sa so wont have to tug on the S&W 15# trigger twiest--thanks again to all-

BYJO4
March 10, 2013, 07:49 PM
I think you made the right decision to fire the remaining rounds. While you can try to seat the primer deeper, there is always the chance of a detonation.

sean eady
March 10, 2013, 07:58 PM
Sentence.
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Punctuation.

Please.
Excellent contribution to the thread.

ranger335v
March 10, 2013, 08:15 PM
Took 2 trigger pulls to fire 1st handload attempt???

Maybe you didn't pull the trigger hard enough the first time? :banghead:

dragon813gt
March 10, 2013, 08:17 PM
Excellent contribution to the thread.

It actually is. I stopped reading the initial post very early. Was only reading the replies to see what the consensus on the failure was. It takes no extra time to type out a post in a readable format.


Brought to you by TapaTalk

JSmith
March 10, 2013, 08:31 PM
While you can try to seat the primer deeper, there is always the chance of a detonation.

How much of a chance? I ask because I do that from time to time. When I prime, I do batches of 50-100 at a time, and after priming I set each case on a smooth metal surface to see if it wobbles. If it does (because the primer's a bit high), I'll put it back in the press and mash it again. I don't jam it, I push on the press handle firmly and steadily until it's gone as far as it can.

kingmt
March 10, 2013, 08:42 PM
Sentence.
Paragraph.
Punctuation.

Please.

iTS THE INTER NET GET OVER IT,

I'm not telling you to but I reseat primers. Did a couple of books of factory stuff not long ago.

floydster
March 10, 2013, 09:08 PM
Next time seat your primers with authority and your problems will be solved.

Smokeyloads

rcmodel
March 10, 2013, 09:12 PM
after priming I set each case on a smooth metal surface to see if it wobbles.That really proves nothing.

A properly seated primer is below flush with the case.
You can coon-finger them as you seat them and tell if they are:
Sticking up (Bad).
Flush with the case head (Bad).
Or below flush (Good).

rc

PhotoBiker
March 10, 2013, 10:53 PM
Photo Biker I used a press to seat the primer, the press was on a stool and not very stable, loaded bullet on the down stroke and inserted primer and up stroke was wobbly--

I may have parsed that wrong, because I can't picture the bullet getting seated before the primer as the powder would run out the flash hole...

As for seating the primers on the press, I do this for my rifle loads. Focus on one thing next time, just seating the primers. Each time you seat on, pull the shell and inspect the primer, make sure it is seated. You will soon find out what it feels like when everything is working properly, so much so that you will know when one isn't seated properly.

As for securing the press, find the most stable location you can. If you have access to a table and don't wish to drill holes, mount the press to a board and clamp the board to the table. You can't "feel the press" if the press isn't secured properly.

beatledog7
March 10, 2013, 11:29 PM
My Hornady LNL SS doesn't always succeed in seating primers fully, so I use a hand primer. I like the control it provides and the feel of the primer going snugly into place.

Sometimes when I seat a bullet into a case that's full of powder, such as the .44Mag 2400 loads I build, the primer can be pushed out slightly (.002-4 maybe) by the process. I let that go unless it's just really high. My Redhawk doesn't seem to mind.

4895
March 10, 2013, 11:48 PM
You could place them standing on a flat surface (tabletop), and see if they 'wiggle'. If they wiggle at all, you have high primers.

OldTex
March 11, 2013, 12:49 AM
My first thought was the same as everyone else's - primers not fully seated.

But then I remembered a situation I once had with my Walther PPK in .380. I had almost exactly the same problem with S&B factory loads. Some fired the first time but with others I had to pull the trigger several times before they went off. At some point I gave up trying to aim and was just trying to unload the rounds so I could reclaim the brass.

That was the only time I've ever used S&B ammo and the only time I ever had any problems with the James Bond gun. At the time, folks who knew more than me said the S&B primers had notoriously hard cups and were harder to crush. They all told me my hammer spring must be weak (I carried that gun as a backup when I was an LEO and it NEVER gave me any other problems).

That's all I know but it would suggest that the primers you were using may have been a contributing factor. One thing about it, if the primers are extra tough and they were not fully seated, that combination would sure enough give you trouble with ignition.

JSmith
March 11, 2013, 09:14 AM
That really proves nothing. A properly seated primer is below flush with the case.

Well, it tells me they're at least flush with the base. If they need to be a couple of thousandths below flush, I don't really have a good way of testing that. I haven't had any misfires, so I'm guessing "good enough... is good enough".

wakmeister
March 11, 2013, 10:39 AM
I looked at all rounds as I loaded, checked the primer to be flush on flat surface and they were, also checked each for oal-all o.k.--

ambidextrous1
March 11, 2013, 12:26 PM
Quote:
"Originally Posted by orionengnr
Sentence.
Paragraph.
Punctuation.

Please.

iTS THE INTER NET GET OVER IT,

I'm not telling you to but I reseat primers. Did a couple of books of factory stuff not long ago."

Maybe we should add "spelling" to orionengnr's original post...

choppinlow
March 11, 2013, 12:34 PM
I looked at all rounds as I loaded, checked the primer to be flush on flat surface and they were, also checked each for oal-all o.k.--

wakmeister, people have said several times they need to be below flush. Flush is not enough.

homatok
March 11, 2013, 02:21 PM
Quote:
"While you can try to seat the primer deeper, there is always the chance of a detonation.

How much of a chance? I ask because I do that from time to time. When I prime, I do batches of 50-100 at a time, and after priming I set each case on a smooth metal surface to see if it wobbles. If it does (because the primer's a bit high), I'll put it back in the press and mash it again. I don't jam it, I push on the press handle firmly and steadily until it's gone as far as it can."

Chances are quite small but real! The problem in this case is that the OP has completed rounds with high primers. If those decide to fire while reseating a high primer---bad ju-ju!! Seating/reseating primers in the initial stage (with no powder/bullet involved) is no where near as critical and likely most (if not all) of us do that, just don't have the priming tool pointed at anything you value.

wakmeister
March 11, 2013, 02:48 PM
I understand that "flush" is not enough in seating primer--reading all above leads me to beleive that the primer is of a "hard" and or the depth of seat needs to be .004 below flush/case bottom???

ATLDave
March 11, 2013, 02:52 PM
I concur with those who say "insufficiently seated primer." That has been the sole source of misfires in my handloads. Eventually, you may notice that some brands of brass make it very difficult to get a primer seated all the way, and you may give even more than usual diligence in primer seating to that brass.

JSmith
March 11, 2013, 09:47 PM
The problem in this case is that the OP has completed rounds with high primers.

I hope you realized I wasn't talking about reseating a live round! I only reseat primers before the cases are charged.

the depth of seat needs to be .004 below flush/case bottom?

How do you measure depth of seat?

gamestalker
March 12, 2013, 12:48 AM
I do not advocate re-seating primers in a loaded round, but I have done it once or twice over the years. It made me a little bit nervous, considering powder can, and does get into the pocket, which could cause a detonation I suppose.
So ya, just shoot them up, and then be a bit more mindful of future priming sessions before you powder and seat.

GS

wakmeister
March 12, 2013, 10:50 AM
well I loaded up my Bersa thunder 380, fired 2 clips, no ftf or ftf--must have a harder strike in the Bersa than the Bodyguard, Bg is new, next task is to load up factory ammo in BG and see what happens--

homatok
March 12, 2013, 03:26 PM
JSmith---Yes I realized you were talking about reseating during the initial priming stage, but the OP was questioning the advisability of reseating in a fully completed round.

JSmith
March 12, 2013, 07:57 PM
the OP was questioning the advisability of reseating in a fully completed round.

I concur that that is not advisable. :what:

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