Euroarms Conversion Cylinder


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4speed
March 11, 2013, 03:17 PM
Does anyone know for sure what conversion cylinder will drop into a Euroarms 1858 Army? I know a Pietta BP cylinder will not fit. Too long. I thought it might be fun to switch back and forth but only if it is drop in. I am not interested in doing any smithing and if I had to let a gunsmith do it I would have more into it that I paid for my Uberti factory conversion.

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Driftwood Johnson
March 11, 2013, 07:41 PM
OK, let's try this again.

I bought this revolver brand, spanky new in 1975. It is a EuroArms 1858, actually made by Armi San Paolo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/Remmie.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/EuroarmsBarrelMarking.jpg

Here is the Armi San Paolo stamp.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/ArmiSanPaolotrademark.jpg

The first thing you should notice is how tall the front sight is. I'll bet you the front sight on your EuroArms Remmie is not that tall, if it is from that era. Compare them. Back when I bought this gun they were usually shipping with a much lower front sight. And they usually shot high. So the first thing I did before I invested in a conversion cylinder is I had a gunsmith install a taller front sight. A 45 Colt cartridge with a 200 or 250 grain bullet is going to recoil more than your typical round ball with around 30 grains of powder, and if anything a cartridge conversion will shoot even higher with a short front sight than it will with Cap & Ball.

That is actually an Uberti front sight on this gun. I bought the part from VTI, it was dirt cheap, and I had a local gunsmith cut a new dovetail for the front sight; it required a bigger dovetail than the original sight used. Then I shot it C&B to make sure it was printing lower with the taller front sight than it used to.

Here is a close up of the Uberti front sight installed in the old EuroArms revolver.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/RemmieFrontSight.jpg

Once I was happy with where it was shooting I had the conversion cylinder installed. This particular cylinder is the six shot, 45 Colt cylinder marketed exclusively by Taylors.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/

As I said in a different post, Taylors has exclusive rights to this particular cylinder, anybody else who is selling it is buying it from Taylors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/RemmieandCylinder.jpg

Now here is why you should call up Taylors and talk to them. Seeing as I had a pistol that was neither Uberti nor Pietta, just like you I was not sure what cylinder to buy. By the way, even though they are advertised as dropping right in, there are instances where a minor amount of fitting has to be done anyway, usually relieving a little bit of the frame at the front lower corner where the cylinder sits. Despite everything you read, it is next to impossible to get a true drop in on every gun. Sometimes a little bit of fitting has to be done.

So I called up Taylors. At that time, they had a fantastic policy. You send them your gun, and they fitted a cylinder to it FOR FREE!! Yes, for free. Taylors employed a gunsmith on site who was doing this work. He had a special fixture that the gun was mounted in. Using the gun in the fixture he did some set up work. Then he removed the gun and he took a 'raw' cylinder, which did not have the locking slots cut into it yet. He mounted the cylinder on the fixture and cut the slots into the cylinder so it would perfectly fit the specific gun. No modification at all to the gun, just fitting the cylinder. The gunsmith's name was Tom, and I had a couple of conversations with him while he was doing the work. He told me he used a Pietta cylinder for my gun. It was the right diameter. He did have to face off a few thousandths off the front of the cylinder, so it would fit into the gun. Then he did the custom cutting, then he sent it out for rebluing next time he had enough to send out.

All of this FOR FREE!!! I paid the freight to send Taylors the gun, and of course I paid for the cylinder. That is all I paid. I did not even have to pay to have it shipped back to me, they shipped the gun on their nickle. They shipped it back with the original C&B cylinder installed, so it was not a firearm according to the ATF. The new cylinder was in a little box packed inside the shipping box.

I even had somebody dispute me, telling me that it was too expensive to do all that for free, but that is the truth, that is what they did.

You really should give Taylors a call and see if they are still doing this service. Even if you have to pay for it, you will probably get a better job then with most gunsmiths, because they are set up to do this work, and I'll bet they won't charge much.

By the way, I usually shoot it with 45 Schofield cartridges, not 45 Colt. A full house load of about 35 grains of FFg Black Powder with a 250 grain bullet recoils right smartly. Even though I can shoot them all day long in my Colts, the grip frame of the Remmie is slightly different and shooting those rounds is punishing. So I usually shoot it with 45 Schofield cartridges with about 28 grains of FFg and a 200 grain bullet. Much less punishing. When I first bought the cylinder, the counterbores for the rims were not quite large enough for the larger diameter Schofield rims, and they would jam. A friend opened up the counterbores for me enough that now it will accept both 45 Colt and 45 Schofield rims. But don't worry, they have fixed that and the the newer cylinders will accept both cartridges.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/Remingtons/45coltand45schofieldloaded.jpg

Old Dragoon
March 12, 2013, 09:27 PM
Any Conversion Cylinder made for Uberti will fit. Taylors is built by R & D. R & D and Kirst both made for Uberti's will drop right in no problem. I have used them both in Euroarms/Armi San Paolo(maker for Euroarms, until Euroarms bought them out). Now Euroarms 58's are no more as they sold out to Davide Pedersoli.
BTW these are not "58" Remy copies, but rather copies of the second model Remington - Beals Elliots Transition to NMA(the ones that have a barest relief at the Breech). 1 st Models had NO relief and the 3rd Model that incorporated all the NMA refinements, but still used the Remington - Beals "Old Army" frame. All made during the last 6 months of production prior to introduction of the New Model Army.

Thes can be found in the book Remingtion Army and Navy pistols, 1861-1898 on pages 342-349

I love my Armi San Paolo/Euroarms pistola's

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
March 12, 2013, 10:12 PM
I love my Euroarms also. Love the small frame.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o127/prizzel/91715dd7a59e1df263a2b18e817849e8.jpg

Hellgate
March 13, 2013, 01:22 PM
I had an ASP a few years ago with a horrible cylinder that would shear so much lead due to poor alignment that it would jam in 2 shots from lead build up. I had a spare Uberti cylinder that dropped right inand restored it to a shooter. The gap was about .009 rather than the Uberti gap of around .003 or 4. It indexed and shot fine, just a larger gap.

4speed
March 13, 2013, 04:29 PM
Thanks for all your help. I talked with Sue at Taylors today and they will do a standard fitting at no charge if you buy the cylinder from them and send the gun to them. By standard I mean no major surgery. She assured me I would be able to alternate between cartridges and BP since he normally does not alter the gun at all.

Sue used to work for Euroarms and seems quite knowledgeable about Euroarms products. Not so much from a historical correctness prospective but more from the mfg. and vendor aspects. She told me mine would been made by Uberti.

I am mailing the gun to them tomorrow.

Driftwood Johnson
March 13, 2013, 08:30 PM
Uberti?

That's interesting. EuroArms was kind of a contract house and sold guns that had been made by different makers, but I never heard of them selling guns made by Uberti. Did you look for a maker's mark on it? Mine was made by Armi San Paolo, and the mark in one of my photos, DGG inside a circle, was the initials of the founder of Armi San Paolo.

Do you see the Uberti trademark stamped on it anwhere? The letter U stamped within an octogon that looks like the muzzle of an 1851 Colt.

This is the Uberti mark.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v495/Driftwood_Johnson/uberti/uberti_trademark.jpg

Yes, Sue does know her stuff, I spoke to her a bunch of years ago at a CAS regional match in Maryland.

4speed
March 13, 2013, 11:18 PM
There is no Uberti mark visible. I did not look under the grips. When I talked with Sue the only mark she asked about was the DGG under the LL. For what it is worth the barrel is stamped with the words New Army. It is packed up ready to ship so I won't be seeing it for a while and my feeble mind cannot remember the date code. If I talk to her again I will clarify who the mfg. was.

Old Dragoon
March 14, 2013, 01:01 PM
I have never seen a Euroarms anything other than Armi San Paolo. Doesn't preclude being a Uberti, but I am guessing not. Easy enough to tell though if you have a picture. Uberti or anyone else, never made a Remington - Beals Framed copy.
If it does not have a scoop relief showing threads at the breech end, then it is Armi San Paolo/Euroarms. If it has the scoop at the breech showing threads it is some other MFG.

AlexanderA
March 14, 2013, 06:18 PM
I have Remington clones from both Uberti and Euroarms (Armi San Paolo). Comparing them side by side, the Uberti has a noticably beefier construction (especially the top strap). This would appear to be an advantage (an extra safety margin) when shooting smokeless cartridges with a conversion cylinder.

I ordered a Howell's 5-shot .45 LC conversion cylinder for the Uberti. I tried this conversion cylinder (made for the Uberti) on the Euroarms, and it fit and functioned just fine (after an initial tightness of the arbor pin).

BTW, I picked the 5-shot Howell's -- as opposed to the 6-shot R&D, marketed by Taylors -- because I was worried about the very thin cylinder walls on the 6-shot. Besides, you are effectively limited to 5 shots (with an empty chamber) on the R&D, because it lacks the safety notches that allow the hammer to rest between chambers. The 5-shot from Howell's has these safety notches.

Edited to add: I noticed in Driftwood Johnson's post that his 6-shot cylinder did have the safety notches on the rear plate. As far as I know, the current cylinders available from Taylors do not have these notches. Also, these safety notches (like those on the original Remingtons) work by allowing the nose of the hammer to rest in them. The safety notches on the Howell 5-shot are on the side of the cylinder, and work by engaging the lockup bolt.

4speed
March 26, 2013, 01:29 AM
Well it's back from Taylor's and I love it. If it ever gets warmer and stops raining I might even shoot it. :rolleyes:


http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s380/dautieng6/PISTOLS/09b18c50-e155-457c-ad78-618a34c004b4_zps4dab6eb0.jpg

Prairie Dawg
March 26, 2013, 02:03 PM
Wow.......Ain't the old style guns beautiful!!!!
--Dawg

Driftwood Johnson
March 26, 2013, 09:10 PM
So did they fit it for free or did you have to pay something?

Also, it is a bit difficult to tell from your photo, but it appears you have one of the earlier short front sights. If so, your Remmie will probably be shooting high with cartridges. If so, you might consider replacing the front sight with something taller as I did.

Hellgate
March 26, 2013, 09:20 PM
I found taller Euroarms Remington sights at ssfirearms.com but the guy had to rummage around to find them. That made a difference. They weren't that much taller but enough for my shooting (RBs however, not conicals).

4speed
March 27, 2013, 01:37 AM
They only charged me for the cylinder and shipping which I had to pay anyway. I also paid for shipping to them which was about $16.00 with insurance. I figure the extra few bucks was worth it to get it done right.

faustopph
March 28, 2013, 11:40 PM
Years back, I bought a Kirst made for a Uberti to install in my Armi San Paolo. It is a five shot conversion, before they came out with the safety cylinder. It dropped in and works very well. The only thing I don't like is the wider cylinder gap.It's not terrible,just a bit more than the percussion cylinder which is real good.

Erich
March 30, 2013, 10:26 AM
This is a very interesting thread - thanks to all.

I've got one of those conversion cylinders of Kenny Howell's for my ROA, and it works like a dream.

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